Unforgiven Project

WOW.. that is alot of info. I am no where near ready for header design.. Just getting ready to rebuild the race motor, I like Grumpy's Idea
of keeping the compression the same and only having to change the cam and blower pulleys to make it a street friendly engine. I like this idea because by the time her car is ready for an engine, I will be getting out of the truck scene. This will allow me to repurpose this engine and save some money. It will
be more than enough to put a smile on her face.
 
Yeah, I was just throwing it out there so somewhere down the road you will know in case
you wanted to get that deep. ;)
 
Couldn't resist messing with another simulation, so here are the results. I didn't change the SCR
since it was already 11.13. I picked 5 psi for the boost pressure, but it approximately 25 Tq/HP
for each 1 psi, I tried both 4 & 6 psi and the difference was about 50.

Sim01_vs_Sim02.jpg
 
Both cams look like they don't wake up until 3000 RPM's. But DAMN... that is an awesome torque curve!

I would have thought the blower would have flattened the curve more so below 3000 RPM.

I was expecting to see a flatter curve with the smaller duration cam under 3000 RPM'S .. but it looks like it follows the same curve
as its bigger brother. Now I am going to have to think about what is making them follow the same peaks on the curve.


I wonder how the engine would perform with a (built) automatic (TH 200-R4) ( :)) trans behind it for every day driving.

Thank you Rick. That was cool to see!
 
So... I got a qoute for media blasting the car....:eek::eek::eek::eek:
Local guy wanted $1500

A day later Alesia came home with this....Then said ....you got all summer!:eek:o_O:(

paint stripper.jpg

At least she could have gotten an 8" disk..
 
Unforgiven said:
I would have thought the blower would have flattened the curve more so below 3000 RPM.
Click to expand...
Are you reading the graph correctly, The curve begins at 2600 rpm.

Unforgiven said:
I wonder how the engine would perform with a (built) automatic (TH 200-R4) ( :)) trans behind it for every day driving.
Click to expand...
I think it would depend more on the rear gear ratio, then the trans.

Unforgiven said:
Thank you Rick. That was cool to see!
Click to expand...
You are welcome !
 
Got the OK to start the engine rebuild !!!
I ended up ordering dished 2618 forged pistons instead of flat tops. It will lower the compression down to 10.2:1 static.
They have a .300 thickness on the top of the piston which is what I wanted.
I don't think I should lose too much power by lowering 1.5 points vs how much it will
bring me back into the safe zone.

I have been holding off on the rebuild all winter because I wanted to know for sure what caused the melt down.
I reread Grumpys posts about 100 times over the winter and have had conversations with some local guys in the know.

I kept coming back and rereading this Quote all winter....


Grumpy said:
at least some of the damage appears to be the result of inadequate ring end gaps
Id be looking a a minimum of .007-,008 per inch of bore diam., on ring end gaps
I don,t think ID gap the next set any tighter than about 30-32 thousands,
and if it was my engine build,
Id certainly consider going for a 32 thousand minimum ring end gap.
once the heat expands the rings enough for the rings endgap to touch ,
even for a fraction of a second
Click to expand...

I have realized that this quote is most likely 50% of the issue because of how long I am at WOT.
I plan on opening the gaps to 32 like Grumpy says. If I discover that there is too much
blowby then I will add a vacuum pump and catch can to stablize the crank case.

The other 50% is definitely a fuel related issue.

I called Motion Raceworks and talked to them about the issue and what their recommendations are also.
They did some math and found that my current fuel set up is no where near what the engine requires.

Obviously.... The pump was not capable of delivering the needed volume at higher RPM.
The other issue TOTALLY caught me off guard.....My fuel regulator would only reach 65psi when boost referenced.

The Super Sniper needs a 60 psi base.. I was pulling 10 psi boost so I was 3 pounds short on WOT. It should have been
pulling 70 psi...
It don't sound like much, but when I am at WOT for 60-90 seconds....It's ALOT.

I think if there was detonation...I would see ping marks on all the pistons and the plugs would show specs.
The couple pistons that survived showed no signs of a timing issue and the plugs looked clean with proper heat marks.
Amazingly.... The aluminum heads show no sign of damage, even where the piston lands disappeared.

Motion Racingworks said that the MP 4303 pump I was asking about will fit the bill.
They also have a regulator that will handle 75 psi.
I have to save up for a couple more weeks for these items.
I only had enough to buy all the parts needed to rebuild the engine this week.

The new fuel system was quoted at $1249

https://www.motionraceworks.com/pro...MIjKCL3JaI8QIVSZyzCh1XGgpPEAQYBiABEgIQNvD_BwE

I think all I would really need is the regulator and pump though.

Anyway.... I thought you guys would like an update on the engine. I'll post some pics
of the parts when they are out of the block for you.
 
Well Damn... I had purchased a set of Probe pistons..The advertisement described them as being 2618 aluminum. When I was checking bore size, I found that they are actually 4032 forged ....
I had .008 piston to wall clearance on the old pistons, so I was surprised when I read the spec sheet for clearances on the new pistons...they
required .002 minimum and .005 max. This threw up a red flag. The printed tag on the box was old and hard to read.. but after some intense
study and research I found that they are NOT SRP series, but instead FRP series.
The new pistons mic'd .005 larger than the old ones, and after bore gauging the cylinders...I found that there was a .003 clearance
already before I even cleaned them up. This bummed me out because these were the only pistons I could find that have a 1.440
compression height. That is what my deck is zero'd at. Also they were the only dish pistons with that compression height.

CFCT9908.JPG GRJV5073.JPG

After careful thought I decided to move forward with them...My new compression will be down to 10.2:1 from 11.5:1

I check the cylinders for taper and found they were straight and round. But at the top compression area...there is about .001
recess where the rings reached TDC . After I run the 3 stone hone thru the bore, I removed about .0008

This still left a dark spot in the are described but I can see where the stones left a slight impression of cross hatching on the dark area.

I'm not 100% happy with the hone job...To me it looks a little to shallow on the hatching. There is still enough material left (about .001)
before I get to max piston wall clearance if I need to do more cleaning up on them.
The scratches in the pic are just a reflection of the light hitting them. They are not as coarse as they appear. I have 320 stones on the hone.

IMG_1644.JPG


Here is a pic of one of the old pistons. I can't believe there was not cylinder or head damage.
IMG_1643.JPG


So last night I file fit 4 sets of rings and mounted them on the new pistons. I used .0075 per bore inch for the top ring
and .008 for the second ring. Or .030 gap top and .032 gap for the second.
With the lower compression pistons I think we are in the ballpark.

The rod and main journals looked new and the bearings had minimal wear on them...and I only found one spec of aluminum
inbedded into one cap bearing slightly larger than a period at the end of this sentence.
I installed new bearings and the crank is back in. Tonight I hope to have the other rings fitted and on the pistons. then I will install all
pistons tomorrow and complete the short block.
 
thank you for the good quality pictures posted ,
and update on progress made
 
Last edited:
Grumpy... what do you think of the cross hatching in the pic?
Does it look to shallow?
should I try to give it a steeper pattern.?
 
Just another update:

Got the engine back together and installed in the truck a couple weeks ago. Took it to Coty's for a test and tune and break in for the rings.
After break in I checked for any blow by and could not see any evidence . With the rings opened up I thought I would see something..but all was good.

I turned on the learn feature on the Sniper software and plugged the laptop in for live tuning. I drove around varying the rpm and shifted through the gears for about 1 mile ... with an occasional blip of the throttle to bring in some boost.

All seemed great...

I then did a full on test hit bring the rpm's up to around 5900. Coty said the engine sounded amazingly more powerful than the
last build. I asked him to get in an do a full test hit while I stand back and listen.

The truck ran great until he was about 60% down the run....then it shut off.

I walked down to meet him and he said that the new fuel pump just quit. HMMMM.

My first thought was that I had set the software up with a ton of safety switches to trigger a shut down in case of any array of issues and one of them was triggered.

Well...that was the case...sort of...

Looking through the log...I seen where I had set a safety to first pull 20 degrees of timing, then shut off fuel... if the fuel pressure dropped below
50 psi. It worked!!!

So we traced the low pressure issue down to a blown fuse on the New fuel pump!

The Sniper has a harness with the 30 amp fuse and the relay built into it... That is what I used.

Issue was that the new MagnaFuel 750 PRO Tuner fuel Pump requires ( 2 ) separate power leads with a minimum 20 amp fuse and their
30/40 amp relay on each lead to supply the pump.

So... We installed the new dual relay set up and triggered them with the Relay in the Sniper harness so I did not have to cut any wires in the factory Sniper harness.... Problem solved!

I looked at the data that night form the st hits and seen the CL Comp values on the data log....But found that I had not had the learn table box checked
so it could learn .... But at least I could see where it was lean and where it was rich...

It rained hard for a few days so I could not get anymore testing in before last Saturday...Which is when we took our trucks to the annual
family reunion/mud bog.

Once there... I was allowed to use one of the fields to do some testing....This time I made sure the learn box was checked off.
What an amazing test!!! The engine performed perfect. The new relays worked , and the pump feed all the fuel I needed.

Here is a pic of the data log from one of the runs...

IMG_1711.JPG

You can see where I have the pen pointed at the fuel flow...756.8 lb/hr

That is 114 GPH.

HP= GPH x 6.6 (weight of gal of E85) / .9 (BSFC)

Thats 838 HP. Not Bad.

You can also see on the left in the second box from the bottom that the Timing was pulled to 19.6 degrees...
I think there is more to be made....But I feel I am going to leave what ever is left on the table stay on the
table.....Cause it was a great feeling to drive the truck all day and get to drive it back on the trailer!!!!!! With NO issues!

When I got home and looked at the data logs... I seen a pattern of very lean spikes upon letting off he throttle ..then going very rich
trying to level out....

I seen in the software that my Minimum Injector Opening Time was set at 1.2 ......I upped it to 1.6 .....this should help with the lean spike
and keep things more even..

All in All....I am learning alot more with the software and it's capabilities ... I love that I found how to set all the safety switches...I'm
sure the engine appreciates it also!
 
After reviewing the loggs....Coty and I are convinced that the roller coaster curve we were seeing on the dyno last year was NOT belt slippage but instead
we feel it was the fuel pump not delivering enough flow....

On the Dyno...we could only make around 9 psi max..... NOW, with the new pistons and bigger fuel pump we made 14 psi on one of the runs.
and the engine was very happy!

Thats a 5 psi gain!
 
first CONGRATS ON THE UPDATE POST , AND PROGRESS BEING MADE!
AND THE MUCH IMPROVED ENGINE COMBO!
next congrats on learning a great deal on , and learning to tune and deal with,
the engine/injection control soft ware issues!
and of course congrats on getting the engine combo closer to what you intended it to be!
and of course eliminating the fuel delivery issues that were partially responsible,
for the previous engine malfunction and resulting damage issues
 
Thank You Grumpy!!

I am now having fun with learning how to actually use the software.

I wanted to post a clip of the engine in action...but I seem to have forgot my google account password...
I think the wife has it in a book somewhere... when I get it loaded I will post a link to the video..
 
I managed to get a couple video's uploaded ....Not the greatest but I was the one in the truck....not behind the camera.
Going to have a talk with the production crew.


 
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