selecting & balancing a HUNTING handguns power, accuracy, effective range,& cost

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
ALLEN stopped by last evening to B.S. about his recent hunts with his 500 S&W , he wanted to brag a bit,
S&W5007.5.jpg

and we spent some time casting up cast bullet projectiles for both his 500 S&W and my 445 DWSM and 44 mag revolvers,

and as you might expect ,
(he loves his new found hobby and revolver)

he started a good natured (RIBBING) conversation into,
why his new 500 S&W was obviously vastly superior to either of my 44 caliber hunting revolvers!,

now theres no argueing that the, 454 casull ,460 and the 500 S&W are not more powerful,
but a several decades long 44 mag track record of success tells me ,
power alone is not the single all important factor in hunting,
and at some point increasing the power level,
does much more to increase recoil than it does toward increasing lethality.
always keep in mind hunting with an iron sight revolver,
limits your effective range too about 120 yards, for most people,
if you have good eye sight and lots of practice,
and I pointed out several times, that only precisely placed hits count!

if you can,t actually hit exactly where your aiming,
having twice the potential power or more is useless.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_hunt_121305/
ID certainly point out that a logical BALANCE ,must be found,
in what the individual using any handgun ,deals with, between initial cost, expected strength,
long term durability, over-all quality, the handguns,size and weight ,
the cartridges potential, penetration,accuracy,trajectory, recoil, levels
, and easy access to ammo.
and if your looking to purchase a big bore magnum revolver, remember longer barrels provide a much more precise sight radias,and
higher velocities and flatter trajectories,
the extra velocity help's reduce longer range,bullet drop, and lack of accuracy issues,all making accurate shot placement at ranges over 50 yards much easier.
Keep in mind you have to be comfortable enough with the handgun you select to PRACTICE WITH IT FREQUENTLY and because of

the cost of AMMO,and your ability too match the ammos performance too the intended game, in use of many of these larger bore handgun, calibers ALMOST MANDATES,....
LEARNING TO HAND LOAD AND CAST YOUR OWN PROJECTILES < AND the practice to become proficient BECOMES ALMOST MANDATORY, if your going to be an ethical handgun hunter.
One thing to keep in mind are the energy requirements of said bullet for hunting elk in the state where you will be hunting.
the 44 mag, 480 Ruger and 454 cassul, all have well proven track records, and it should be obvious that you,ll want to carefully read and understand the local game departments hunting/firearm regulations.
Colorado requires 550 foot pounds at 50 yards. Which the 44 mag has.

http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
I used a 21 grain charge of H110 under a LEE 310 grain hard cast 44 cal. bullet seated out to the lower crimp groove

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/511417/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-c430-310-rf-44-special-44-remington-magnum-44-40-wcf-430-diameter-310-grain-flat-nose-gas-check
MOLD DC C 430-310-RF
90858-01.jpg



keep in mind hand gun hunting is similar too archery hunting,
as proper shot placement with an iron sighted big bore revolver becomes much more difficult past that range.
ONLY WELL PLACED HITS ON THE GAMES VITALS COUNT,
POWER IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS PRECISE SHOT PLACEMENT.
IT TAKES A GREAT DEAL OF PRACTICE TO BECOME BOTH ACCURATE AND CONSISTENT WITH A BIG BORE REVOLVER.
I can ASSURE YOU FROM EXPERIENCE, that even a properly loaded 44 mag with a 300 grain hard cast bullet over 21 grains of H110 will shoot completely through an elks chest
in that the vast majority of hand gun kills will be made at ranges under 60 yards and shots much over 100 yards by your average hand gun hunter should generally be avoided
I see way too many guys go out and buy a 454 cassul or 460 S&W who take it out to the local range and fire 20 shots and due to the noise and recoil decide that they can,t hit crap and they wasted a great deal of time effort and cash, guys that should have purchased 357 mag or 41 mag, or 44 mag and gotten into hand loading, and weekly practice, and only once they master that, advanced if they felt the need to the larger bore hand guns.....and if you only hunted deer, and hogs and elk, a 41 or 44 mag would have met your needs.
yes there are single shot, and typically scope equipped "HAND GUNS" chambered in rifle calibers that will potentially extend that range limit, but in my opinion,
if your going to do that,
and have the typical scope and 12"-14" barrel,and a 4-5 lb hand gun you can,t easily holster, your better off using a carbine with a shoulder stock that also increased accuracy, not a hand gun.

d40.jpg

d41.jpg

B]d41.jpg

http://www.handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp?year=all

deer-anatomyghkl.jpg


notice the area just behind , or through,the front leg and from about mid chest downwards to about 5" up from the lower edge,
of the chest is the desired impact area but you'll never go wrong,
selecting the bullet impact target, at the mid way point, vertically ,
on the chest , directly behind or through the near leg ,
as the deer or elk steps forward on a broadside shot.
larger caliber revolvers pushing 250-450 grain hard cast bullets in 44-50 caliber, pushed to 1300-1400 fps or more,
tend too penetrate very effectively at common hand gun ranges.
357 mag= 158 grain-180 grain
41 mag= 220 grain-250 grain
44 mag= 270 grain-320 grain
45 caliber -300 grain-350 grain
480 caliber 350 grain-400 grain
50 caliber 400 grain-480 grain
don,t think a 357 mag can,t be effective, it is,
but its not in the same class as the larger magnums
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/why-the-reluctance-to-use-hard-cast-lead-projectiles.9875/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/selecting-a-handgun-for-hunting-hogs-deer-elk.1864/

deeranatomyg.jpg

S&W 1006 10mm
f2f7.jpg



4144r.jpg

http://www.petersenshunting.com/gear-accessories/ultimate-hunting-handgun-test/

I let him go on for quite a while, smiling and occasionally nodding and agreeing to the fact, that theres zero doubt that the 500 S&W has the most punch, heaviest projectile, etc. but then I pointed out the fact that while theres no contest in the level of power delivered on impact thats not necessarily the same thing as measuring effectiveness, or lethality I look back at decades of in field experience, and
I've rarely failed to have bullets exit the far side of game I shot using just hard cast 300 grain bullets from my 44 mag,
and can,t remember having one fail to exit with my 445 DWSM, theres a point of diminishing returns on the power level you employ when using a large bore hunting revolver , and from personal experience, Id say a 44 mag will handle almost anything in north america with proper hand loads .
now thats not suggesting that a 454 cassul or 480 ruger or 500 S&W can,t hit harder , but ....as always knowing your games anatomy and exact shot placement is more critical that impact energy... once your punching a 44 caliber hole through the games vital organs,and having the projectile exit regularly, a slight increase in power does not gain you a great deal more extra lethality, it may hit harder and thats surely an advantage,

but unless your trying to prevent a large angry bear from climbing into your tent or keeping one from having a personal one-on-one discussion about your lack of judgement and accuracy after you shoot him,
I don,t see the 500 S&W as being hugely more lethal than the 44 mag or 445 DWSM , when those are properly loaded and used by a skilled shooter, as all three will punch holes completely through ELK, and BEARS
I then pointed out the costs, the difference in the bullet molds cost is all but meaningless as both 44 cal and 500 cal bullet molds, and 500 S&W reload dies, can be purchased for similar prices Near $80
but the 44 mag dies being much more common tend to be cheaper NEAR $50 and while 445 DWSM is a bit more
I pointed out other factors before
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/selecting-a-handgun-for-hunting-hogs-deer-elk.1864/

http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus_500.htm

I've yet to see any huge difference in accuracy, its the persons skill with a revolver that tends to be a limiting factor as all three can generally produce 2" 50 yard groups and 3.5"-4" 100 yard groups in skilled hands.
but as I pointed out, even my 44 mag revolver with its smaller and lighter and slower 300 grain bullet compared to his 400 grain 500 S&W still produces a lethal wound with a single shot so
all the extra power a 500 S&W has ,while impressive and certainly, comforting and justified,[/B]
if you might want to tackle hunting brown bear at spitting distances,
BUT it is not gaining you much more lethality on white tail deer or ELK![/B]
http://www.grumpysperformance.com/500s&w.jpg
average cost about $1350 AVERAGE HAND LOADS 400 grain at 1300 fps-1500 FPS
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500']http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=']http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
m29.jpg


if you look hard you can find a used or buy a new 44 mag revolver for between $600-$1100 (obviously model, barrel length, age and condition vary)
average handloads 300 grain at 1300 fps-1350 FPS
http://www.lasc.us/fryxell44overweight.htm

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm[/

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44mag.htm

http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44']http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=300&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=']http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=300&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/your-choice-in-a-hunting-revolver-should-concentrate-on.3744/

21716c.bmp.jpg
'http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445']http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun']http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445']http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun']http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun

keep in mind that cartridges like the 445 dan wesson
(an extended length case 44 mag,) or the 454 casull and 460 S&W ( an extended length case, similar to a 45 colt)
while significantly more powerful than a standard 44 mag, are not necessarily more lethal in skilled hands, but the extra velocity allows longer effective range use.
and the DAN WESSON REVOLVERS ARE KNOWN TO BE EXCEPTIONALLY ACCURATE and BARRELS ARE EASY TO REPLACE

445PP1.jpg

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt445sm.htm

TAFFIN TESTS: THE .445 SUPERMAG

JOHN TAFFIN

The .357 SuperMag as chambered in the Dan Wesson heavy frame revolver of the same name orinthe Ruger .357 Maximum Blackhawk or even in the Seville Silhouette Single Action, is generally regarded by many experienced silhouetters as the finest revolver cartridge for long range shooting ever conceived.The concept was a simple one. Instead of using a big bore for silhouettes, stretch the .357 Magnum enough that it would handle 180 and 200 grain bullets at normal .357 Magnum muzzle velocities. A length of 1.610" was selected and 180-200 grain bullets did indeed attain the same muzzle velocities as the .357 Magnum using 158 grain bullets. Though the concept was simple, carrying it out was not. It was more than a matter of chambering an existing revolver for the new cartridge as stretching the case to 1.610" also meant stretching revolver frames and cylinders a like amount. This is no simple task and certainly required a large investment in time, money, and engineering.

When the .357 SuperMag from Dan Wesson first appeared on the scene, more than one wildcatter was waiting with reamers in hand to do one thing: Turn it into a true big bore. The largest number of these were turned into .44 SuperMags, and I had the privilege of doing extensive shooting of one such early wildcat, the .44 UltraMag. The .44 UltraMag used .444 Marlin brass cut to 1.600", and this brass being larger in diameter than .44 Magnum brass, was swaged and turned on a lathe until it matched .44 Magnum dimensions. The reason, of course, was to also allow the use of the shorter .44 Magnums in the same cylinder.

My good friend Lew Schafer created the .44 UltraMag and by careful reloading we acquired the following muzzle velocities, in cold temperatures of 20-25 degrees, brutally cold when shooting a big bore revolver, using a six-inch barrelled Dan Wesson revolver:


[/B]







        • 200 grain Hornady Jacketed Hollow Point 1718 fps
        • 220 grain Sierra FPJ Silhouette 1670 fps
        • 240 grain Hornady Jacketed Silhouette 1596 fps
        • 265 grain Hornady Jacketed Flat Point 1495 fps
        • 305 grain Cast Gas Checked Bullet 1589 fps
All loads were assembled with WW680 powder and CCI #350 Magnum Large Pistol primers with the 305 grain cast bullet giving five-shot groups of 3/8"-1/2" at 25 yards.

Barrels for the .44 UltraMag were standard Dan Wesson .44 Magnum barrels but because the SuperMag frames used different threads, eight-inch .44 Magnum barrels were cut to six-inches and rethreaded. Various .44 SuperMags, based on either .444 Marlin or .30-40 Krag brass, have surfaced since, but the ".44 Stretched Magnum" became a production sixgun in 1988. Dan Wesson and the late Elgin Gates of IHMSA, combined forces to create the.445 SuperMag. Dan Wesson supplied the guns, IHMSA supplied the brass and healthy orders for the new big bore sixgun.


As of this writing, .445 SuperMags are available only from Dan Wesson in both blue and stainless steel versions. No other revolver manufacturer has seen fit to produce the .445 Supermag, so it is either Dan Wesson or a Thompson/Center Contender single-shot. Brass is available, but no factory loaded rounds. Brass can be acquired only from The Silhouette (phone 208-524-0880), and the latest run will be headstamped ".445 Gates" in memory of its creator.

Problems surfaced early with the .445 SuperMag revolver and also with the .445 brass. The first guns had oversize cylinders and the brass was not properly annealed. Problems with sizing .445 SuperMag brass has also resulted whether using either .445 or .44 Magnum carbide sizing dies both of which often raise a sharp ring of metal right above the base of the fired shell. Standard non-carbide .44 Magnum sizing dies will give better results. In my reloading of the .445, I use neither .445 nor .44 Magnum sizing dies but instead opt for a custom RCBS .44 Schafer UltraMag sizing die that puts a slight taper on the case from base to mouth, and is much easier on brass. It is somewhat of a nuisance to use as cases must be lubed and virtually hand fed into the very sharp, very flat base of the sizing die, but the results are well worth it. Most sizing dies have a slight funnel shape at the bottom to assist entrance of the case mouth; the .44 UltraMag die does not.

Except for the case-sizing cautions, reloading the .44 SuperMag is the same as for reloading the .44 Magnum. A good heavy crimp is required both to keep bullets from moving forward in recoil as the big sixgun is fired, and also to get the powder started burning properly. Powder selection is a little different as I stay with H4227, WW296, H110, WW680, and AA#1680, staying away from any faster burning powders.

The same bullets that work in the .44 Magnum also work well in the .44 SuperMag with my preference being for the heavier bullets in the 290 to 310 grain weight range. The .44 SuperMag is a an exceptionally accurate cartridge and this accuracy is even further enhanced by the use of heavyweight bullets such as the SSK J.D. Jones designed #310.429 flat point, the NEI #295.429 GC (available from BRP Bullets, 1210 Alexander Road, Dept. AH, Colorado Springs Colorado 80909) or Sierra's 300 grain jacketed flat point. Speer also has a 300 grain bullet in the works but I have not yet received any for testing as this is written.

Large Rifle primers are usually recommended for the .445 UltraMag/SuperMag/Gates, but I have yet to determine a nickel's worth of difference between the use of Large Rifle Primers and Magnum Pistol Primers. Muzzle velocities and accuracy are both virtually identical whether Federal or CCI Large Rifle Primers, or Federal or CCI Magnum Pistol Primers are used.

The .445 SuperMag has been touted as a silhouette revolver and it is IF properly loaded. It makes little sense to load it to the hilt and try to shoot 40, 60, or 80 targets with it. Even with the ten-inch barrelled version, which is just a shade under four pounds, recoil can be quite disconcerting with full house loads. For silhouetting, I would stay at 1650 feet per second or less with the 220 grain Sierra silhouette bullet or 1500 feet per second with the 240 Speer silhouette bullet. Using the 220 grain Sierra and 34.0 grains of H4227, muzzle velocity is 1648 feet per second according to the triple sky screens of my Oehler Model 35P chronograph. The same load in an eight-inch barrel goes 1635 fps, six-inch gives 1541 fps, and the Super Fourteen T/C Contender milks it for all it is worth and yields just barely over two thousand feet per second.

With the 240 Speer silhouette bullet, I use either 33.0 grains of H110, 31.0 grains of H4227, or 38.0 grains of WW680 for the 1500 feet per second muzzle velocity range from the ten-inch barrelled Dan Wesson. These same loads will do 1350 to 1450 feet per second in the six-inch and eight-inch barreled DW's and right around 1850 in the Super Fourteen.

The heavier weight bullets really make the .445 worthwhile and the replacing of the ten-inch standard barrel or eight-inch heavy barrel that were standard equipment with my early .445 Dan Wesson with a standard weight six-inch barrel makes the .445 handle as easily as a Smith & Wesson Model 29. Well, real close anyway. The shorter barrel transforms the big Dan Wesson from a clumsy, heavy competition pistol to a very packable hunting pistol.

Hunting with the .445 SuperMag means heavyweight bullets such as the 265 grain Hornady Jacketed Flat Point, the 300 grain Sierra Jacketed Flat Point, or cast bullets such as NEI's 295 grain Keith style or SSK's 310 grain flat point. Using 31.0 grains of H110 with the latter three bullets in the 300 grain weight range yields impressive muzzle velocities with the six-inch barreled Dan Wesson. Even with this relatively short barrel length, the 300 grain cast bullets will go 1500 feet per second giving a lot of power from a small package, or the 300 grain Sierra Jacketed Flat Point will do 1300 feet per second with the same load. For a slightly less powerful load, try 34.0 grains of WW680 with either of the 300 grain bullets.
I used a 21 grain charge of H110 under a LEE 310 grain hard cast 44 cal. bullet seated out to the lower crimp groove

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...cf-430-diameter-310-grain-flat-nose-gas-check
MOLD DC C 430-310-RF
90858-01.jpg

if you really want to maximize any large bore revolvers lethality you'll most likely want to order a custom bullet mold, to produce an exceptionally effective hard cast gas check bullet design, luckily mountain molds will work with you to produce most of the bullet molds you might want if you can,t find a commercially available design you like, the key is maximizing penetration and having a 80%-85% wide melplat (flat nose) to maximize the tissue destruction,in a gas check design, that keeps the bore clean, in a weight that you can push to at least 1300 fps, the bullet below is decent in a 44 mag , where 1300 fps is not hard to reach, and almost perfect for hunting ammo in a 445 DWSP where it can easily be pushed to over 1570 fps in a 10" barrel revolver, using max safe charges of H110 powder.
now I got asked why I would spend $100 on a custom mold to cast these and what the advantage would be over a $30 LEE 310 grain mold, and truthfully the difference is not huge, but the mountain mold does seem to be consistently a bit more accurate.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...how-to-hunt-with-a-revolver.14205/#post-78530

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690858/double-cavity-mold-c430-310-rf


http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-300B-D.png

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000152660650/double-cavity-pistol-bullet-mould-number-429650-44-caliber-300-grain

LOADS FOR THE .445 SUPERMAG

FIREARM: DAN WESSON MODEL 445
CHRONOGRAPH: OEHLER MODEL 35P
PRIMER: FEDERAL #210
TEMPERATURE: 70 DEGREES



BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
SIERRA 300 JFP 29.0 GR. H110 1299 1290 1220
30.0 GR. H110 1302 1294 1242
31.0 GR. H110 1395 1394 1295
32.0 GR. H110 1445 1429 1369
32.0 GR. WW680 1144 1121 1100
33.0 GR. WW680 1229 1163 1133
34.0 GR. WW680 1284 1247 1191
35.0 GR. WW680 1340 1293 1253

BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
BRP 295 KEITH* 29.0 GR. H110 1447 1443 1376
30.0 GR. H110 1512 1502 1477
31.0 GR. H110 1608 1572 1498
32.0 GR. H110 1635 1607 1527
32.0 GR. WW680 1397 1344 1336
33.0 GR. WW680 1435 1406 1405
34.0 GR. WW680 1554 1496 1442
35.0 GR. WW680 1568 1541 1514
36.0 GR. WW680 1612 1550 1538


BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
SSK 310 FN** 29.0 GR. H110 1446 1442 1402
30.0 GR. H110 1501 1472 1421
31.0 GR. H110 1546 1494 1491
32.0 GR. H110 1575 1563 1544
32.0 GR. WW680 1399 1375 1334
33.0 GR. WW680 1492 1462 1444
34.0 GR. WW680 1572 1521 1500
35.0 GR. WW680 1601 1547 1517


BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
HORNADY 265 FN 29.0 GR. H110 1361 1308 1258
30.0 GR. H110 1406 1394 1286
31.0 GR. H110 1486 1459 1310
32.0 GR. H110 1536 1527 1409
29.0 GR. H4227 1390 1377 1267
30.0 GR. H4227 1468 1445 1306
31.0 GR. H4227 1534 1506 1327
32.0 GR. H4227 1581 1576 1430


BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
SPEER 240 FMJ 32.0 GR. H110 1471 1441 1313
33.0 GR. H110 1516 1517 1387
34.0 GR. H110 1522 1525 1442
35.0 GR. H110 1577 1533 1485
36.0 GR. H110 1570 1575 1512
30.0 GR. H4227 1408 1367 1296
31.0 GR. H4227 1514 1493 1326
32.0 GR. H4227 1609 1599 1444
33.0 GR. H4227 1682 1626 1550
35.0 GR. WW680 1419 1335 1227
36.0 GR. WW680 1451 1359 1289
37.0 GR. WW680 1476 1391 1331
38.0 GR. WW680 1504 1432 1353
39.0 GR. WW680 1499 1630 1405
34.0 GR. AA#1680 1256 1235 1045
35.0 GR. AA#1680 1345 1324 1070
36.0 GR. AA#1680 1377 1365 1189
37.0 GR. AA#1680 1388 1376 1252



BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
SIERRA 220 FMJ 34.0 GR. H4227 1648 1635 1541
35.0 GR. H4227 1759 1705 1561
36.0 GR. H4227 1793 1780 1640
38.0 GR. WW680 1479 1460 1287
39.0 GR. WW680 1482 1461 1295
40.0 GR. WW680 1517 1491 1360


44magcar.jpg



the DWSM revolvers are no longer made but I've seen them sell in the $900-$1400 range)
average handloads 300 GRAIN AT 1500 fps-1550 fps
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/taffin.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt445sm.htm

http://www.sixguns.com/range/supermags.htm

https://www.starlinebrass.com/


https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/44-Mag-Brass/
$177 per thousand cases

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/445-Super-Mag-Brass/
445 DWSM $395 per thousand cases

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/500-SandW-Mag-Brass/
$499 per 1000 cases

in the end, you get some BRAGGING RIGHTS, for its higher power but you pay more for the revolver, and its heavy, and you need to put up with higher cost , for components and more recoil if you want to use a 500 S&W revolver,

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-a-handgun-for-hunting-hogs-deer-elk.1864/


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ectively-handle-a-larger-bore-revolver.12784/


[/B]



 
Last edited:
I have a few .357 mag handguns a S&W #19 A Ruger GP-100 and a Ruger LCR I also have a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt and a S&W 629 in .44 Mag I've never hunted with either but the thought has crossed my mind. I do want to take my Ruger 96 .44 Mag rifle out for a spin deer hunting but the shot that I got last year about 150 yards I'm not sure I could have made at that distance and I'm glad that I had my .300 Win Mag because I dropped a really nice 10 point. The deer seem to come by my tree stand but not close this year. Last year I shot an 8 point at about 25 yards that would have been a perfect time for the .44 Mag. This summer I'm going to do some testing to find the range that I can shoot with my handguns and the .44 rifle
 
this is one of those FORD vs CHEVY vs MOPAR discussions,
where what you personally like,
or own, and want,
has a huge effect on your perceptions
keep in mind consistency in your ammo,
maintaining your high quality,
revolver in near perfect condition,clean, well lubricated ,
and a great deal of constant practice,
under field conditions
is required to become proficient.


BTW Ive shot a few deer with my marlin 44 mag carbine, and several with a 44 revolver,
(using the same 300 grain lee hard cast and 21 grains of H110 powder I use in my revolvers)
out at 120-150 yards in the past, and you'll still have plenty of punch, and still get complete pass through's on broadside lung shots at that range, its still dependent on your knowledge of anatomy and precise shot placement that counts....a 44 mag won,t dump deer as quickly as a 300 mag, but its certainly lethal at that range and if the deer runs a couple yards then tips over its still one shot=1 dead deer!
Ive seen the 50 and 54 caliber muzzle loader's produce similar results

I generally don,t try revolver shots much past 100 yards, the revolvers certainly able to do the job, but making precisely placed hits with iron sights can be difficult, as you'll seldom have both the time and a good rest required to make the shot out in the field well past 100 yards ,using iron sights, on a revolver, if the deer's walking , especially where I hunt as brush limits shots to less than 60 yards in most cases.
keep in mind both archery and revolvers kill due too having the ability of punching holes in vital organs and tissue destruction , not due to the energy levels, an archery broad-head thrown from most bows will have less than 100 ft lbs of energy but it can slice through and exit an elks chest destroying vital organs as it zips through, a handgun like a 44 mag will not have even 1/2 the energy or velocity that the typical 308 win or 270 win deer rifle has yet it can also punch through both sides of an elks chest and exit destroying vital organs as it passes through.
its up to the hunter to know his games anatomy and have the skills developed through constant practice to use his chosen weapon effectively
 
Last edited:
Where I hunt the deer seem to change year to year I never thought that I would have ever gotten a shot much past 100 yards and for a few years that was true but this past year they came from different directions and different ways. They put in a new underground gas line through part of the farm and although its not close to my tree stand the deer habit changed a lot. I will have to test my .44 rifle maybe on water jugs for impact at about 150 yards after I make sure that I can hit the target steady at that range. I'm sure that I can but testing is fun. I'll go to the farm on a weekend by myself and shoot all day long for 2 days thats called stress relief.
 
this should get you in the ball park
what a great many of these discussions lack is details on what projectile was used and where it impacted, how deeply it penetrated and what vital organ was missed or destroyed..
anyone who has a decent quality 357 mag or larger bore revolver, or quality, 10 mm semi auto, loaded with the correct ammo and assuming your personal having the skills,the ability to place shots precisely has the required tool to kill any bear, , elk, deer or hog, based on the fact that a properly loaded hard cast bullet, of the proper design, from a revolver like a 357 mag will without any doubt punch through a bears, elk, deer or hog,skull into the brain or through the chest wall into the heart/lung area.
thats not the same thing as saying a 357 mag will instantly stop an infuriated bear full of Adrenalin,who might see your destruction as his only goal at that time.
But if you start randomly punching holes in his anatomy.
only hits to the brain,or forward central spine,from behind the head to the area between the shoulders will be likely to provide a nearly instant mobility stop, you can randomly punch an infuriated bear full of Adrenalin,as full of holes as a colander, used to strain water off spaghetti, if you don,t destroy the vitals and that bear will want to discuss your lack of proper marksmanship up close and personal, with you for well over the time he requires to bleed out.
now a larger handgun caliber like a 44 mag, 480 ruger, 454 cassul, 500 S&W, will without doubt destroy far more tissue, with each shots impact, this does increase your odds of creating significant and lethal damage , and inflicting pain that may cause the animal to retreat., but the fact still remains that the vitals must be hit to provide an instant mobility or lethal damage stop.
most people under stress can,t hit crap, and just shoot in the general direction of a threat, and you'll be lucky in most cases to get off more than one or two shots on a charging bear.
bearangles.gif

bear-target.png

now this observation has very little to do with the handgun or caliber you decide to carry, but I find it rather amusing when I see guys state something along the lines of
"well, Id prefer a glock with 13-19 cartridge capacity over a 5-to-6 shot revolver"

yeah I can easily see that thought process, but I've actually been charged by a large very vindictive hog, one of my friends wounded..... your issue is with time and distance, and if you think your going to have the time available on a rapidly charging hog, or bear, too place your shots, precisely or have that set of teeth/tusks/claws in your sights for more than at most a couple seconds your in for a rude awakening.
yeah, you can pump out several shots a second at the range on a stationary target , but in close cover you'll be lucky to have 3-to- 5 seconds to react, and on a fast in-coming target
that's not a great deal of time.
I used to shoot bowling pin matches double action with a S&W 44 mag revolver,
(where you try to knock several bowling pins off a table against a stop watch)
I think I'm at least above average in both skill and experience, you might have more than 3-4 shot capacity but your unlikely to have the time to place even 2-3 shots.
Glock2010mmd.jpg

while these may not be most peoples choice in hunting handguns I can assure you that in practiced hand's
Ive found both choices are quite effective
the 44 mag silhouette with adjustable front site and 10 5/8" barrel
293ss&w.jpg


how far away do you think youll see a hog thats at most 28"-32" at the shoulder
akml4.jpg

akml3.jpg

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6584676#post6584676


https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6584676#post6584676

http://www.biggamehunt.net/articles/beginners-guide-big-game-handgun-hunting
carty.gif

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_hunt_121305/

44mag305gr1350fps.jpg

44magr.png
 
Last edited:
I was asked to explain
"why I suggest the use of a rifle throwing a 250 0r heavier projectile, like a 358 win, 35 whelen,
and up through the 340 weatherby and 375 H&H or even a 45/70 in selecting an elk rifle ,
yet seem to be perfectly happy to use a 44 mag , 445 dan wesson or even a 480 ruger or a 500 S&W revolver,
all of which have significantly less power."
dwsmwbraker.png


you'll find used dan wesson 445 revolvers generally hold up well, were not shot much due to the cost of commercial ammo, and hold value well.
well first I,d point out two very important factors
(1) big bore revolvers /handguns are rarely used at hunting ranges on large game
,over about 125 yards, in my experience 70-80 yards is a very long shot at elk or deer with a big bore revolver,hand gun.
(2)rifles are expected to have 3-8 times that effective range.
(3) energy is a very poor way to compare projectile lethality potential.
(4) hand guns designed for hunting are generally poor choices for self defense as the recoil and penetration tends to be excessive

Using a .429" 305gr bullet @ 1350fps with a 100 yard zero, I get the following table

(Assuming a BC of .207)
44mag%252520305gr%2525201350fps.jpg


You can run numbers yourself at the following link: Ballistic Calculator
even a very powerful archery bow & arrow, combo, would never reach a 200 ft lbs of impact energy
yet every animal on earth has been killed with a sharp broad head in the correct place

when you hunt large game the object is to rapidly and efficiently kill that game,
and thats achieved by destroying vital organs,and knowledge of the games anatomy.
like the heart, lungs, or through very rapid and extensive blood loss.

increasing velocity flattens and extends the weapons projectile trajectory,
but impact velocities over about 2500 fps, with bullets designed to expand on impact, tend to REDUCE penetration as bullet expansion ,
and resistance to penetration,tends to increase,
hard cast hand gun bullets don,t tend to expand as quickly on impact and while they cut an impressive wound channel they penetrate surprisingly well.
in fact rather extensive testing finds that the projectiles design has a great deal to do with its impact performance.
hard cast lead alloy bullets commonly used in big bore revolvers penetrate just as deeply as most rifles
a balance between a bullets sectional density and its velocity must be found
http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm
in both a rifle and a hand guns used for big game , hunting you'll generally want to select something in the .230-.280 range with .240-.260 being about ideal,
in hand guns ,
using a wide melplat, (at least 75% of diam.) hard cast lead alloy bullet
(IDEALLY GAS CHECK DESIGN)something in the .230-.280 range with .240-.260 being about ideal,

youll want to select a bullet that will ideally be pushed to at least 1300 fps
and not much over 1800 fps at safe pressures that will provide good accuracy.
penetration of a 310 grain hard cast 44 bullet pushed to 1370 fps from a 44 mag zips through a full grown elk,s chest.
, something a 30/30, 243 win,270 win or a 308 win may not do,
even with on paper a good edge in energy and certainly impact velocity
a great deal of actual practice shooting a bow at various unknown ranges from 20 yards out to 40 yards and the experience gained is critical,
deer and elk don,t have convenient, red dot aim points, so practicing on a deer or elk picture target helps accuracy

a good knowledge of a deers or elks anatomy is also mandatory ,
remember an
arrow or revolver bullet kills by rapid blood loss and critical organ failure,so accurate hits are mandatory for rapid results
you can,t just slice, or punch holes in random parts of the games anatomy and get rapid kills.
some of the faster velocity rifle bullets , and larger diameter pistol bullets add an additional factor, of hydro-static shock , especially when a bullet impacts at about 2200 fps- or higher velocity and it has either a flat melpat (nose or it expands on impact)
, theres an energy shock wave that travels through the internals and this crushes and rips tissue the bullet itself never touched.
deer-anatomygh.jpg


deershot1.jpg



suggested bullet weights
357 mag= 158 grain-180 grain
41 mag= 220 grain-250 grain
44 mag= 270 grain-320 grain
45 caliber -300 grain-350 grain
480 caliber 350 grain-400 grain
50 caliber 400 grain-480 grain
ideally pistol velocity and the bullet design of the better hunting ,
cast bullets are most effective if the melplat (nose) is flat ans between 75%-80% of the bullet diameter, its a gas check design and its pushed to a muzzle velocity of at least 1350 fps but not too exceed about 1800 fps and have a bullet in the .240-.260 sectional density range.
jacketed hollow points should be used only on lighter weight game like deer.
remember the proper hard cast bullet will penetrate very effectively but it won,t expand rapidly, thus a knowledge of the games anatomy and locations of the vital organs is critical to rapid kills.
don,t be surprised if the first few large game animals you shoot run off with little indication they were hit, unless you place shots precisely handgun kills will resemble archery hunting and it will take 30 seconds for the game to bleed out, and in 30 seconds a scared injured deer can travel 200 yards making its recovery difficult.
but place shots precisely and if you used the correct projectile, distances will be much less.



http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

Sectional Density Calculator
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/density.htm

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/external

bullet stability and twist rates
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

ballistic calculator
http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator


http://mountainmolds.com/
allows custom mold designs
basically you want to select a bullet in the .240-.260 sectional density range



linba1.png

linba2.png

linba3.png

linba4.png

cartpressure.png

Linebaugh Seminar Penetration Tests.html.jpg

ignoring the linked info is never smart
http://www.realguns.com/calculators/sectionaldensity.html


http://handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/The+Effects+Of+The+Meplat+On+Terminal+Ballistics.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ectively-handle-a-larger-bore-revolver.12784/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ounger-guy-how-to-hunt-with-a-revolver.14205/
 
Last edited:
I would strongly suggest selecting a 6"-10" barrel pistol or revolver for any serious hunting application to maximize velocity and to provide a good sight radias.
keep in mind only precisely placed hits and a good knowledge, of the games anatomy, will work well, and hard cast bullets of close too ideal weight range , and ideally pushed to about 1300 fps-1700 fps work the best as velocity's much higher tend to reduce penetration, by inducing too rapid expansion.


suggested hard cast bullet weights
357 mag= 158 grain-180 grain
41 mag= 220 grain-250 grain
44 mag= 270 grain-320 grain
45 caliber -300 grain-350 grain
480 caliber 350 grain-400 grain
50 caliber 400 grain-480 grain


http://www.ballistics101.com/357_magnum.php
(while certainly not a power house choice, Or something Id recommend),
in the hands of a skilled hunter I has taken about everything in north America at one time or another)
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=357 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


http://www.ballistics101.com/10mm.php
(not bad for a compact auto pistol used for hunting and with proper hand loads certainly useful)
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=10 mm&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


http://www.ballistics101.com/41_magnum.php
(great choice if recoil bothers you, provided you hand load )
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=41 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


http://www.ballistics101.com/44_magnum.php
(without doubt the least expensive and most effective choice for most people)
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


http://www.ballistics101.com/454_casull.php
(great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=454 Casull&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

http://www.ballistics101.com/460_sw.php
(great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=460 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


http://www.ballistics101.com/480_ruger.php
(great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=480 Ruger&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

http://www.ballistics101.com/500_sw.php
(great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
 
Last edited:
How Effective Are Handguns?
by Wayne van Zwoll
Almost every big game animal you’ve ever read about has been taken with a handgun, so to say that elk are too tough for pistol bullets is nonsense. Naturally, you’ll want to place those bullets well, just as you do with a rifle. Use a rest, cushioned by your hand. Remember that the cylinder gap of revolvers spews hot gas, and possibly bullet fragments. Keep your hand away, and the cylinder away, from tree bark that can explode in your face like shrapnel. Practice in the off-season, preferably with a .22 that feels like your hunting gun so you can shoot a lot without flinching. A low-power scope with extended eye relief will help you hit. Consider also a red dot sight or Bushnell Holo-Sight.

As for cartridge choice, the .44 Magnum is still lethal, much more powerful than the .44-40s with which frontiersmen killed plenty of elk. Nonetheless, better rounds are available. My pick for a revolver is the .454 Casull, a handful in recoil but more potent for elk. The .480 Ruger makes sense too. Don’t expect the stem-to-stern penetration of a controlled-expansion rifle bullet.

To test penetration of these cartridges, I recently fired them all from three Ruger Super Redhawks with 7-inch barrels. The target: a railroad tie, 8 inches through. Hornady provided the ammo, all of it with XTP hollowpoints, representative of high-quality big game bullets.

cartridge, bullet weight (grs.) velocity (fps) energy (ft-lbs) penetration (inches in RR tie)
.44 Rem. Magnum, 240 1405 1100 3.5
.44 Rem. Magnum, 300 1150
880 5.0
.454 Casull, 240 1800 1730 7.5
.454 Casull, 300 1585
1685 8.0+
.480 Ruger, 325 1420 1455 6.5
The heavy .44 Magnum bullets showed that weight trumps speed in determining penetration. The .454 loads pushed both bullets deeper than expected. Of my first three rounds, one 240-grain bullet drove 5 inches, one stopped just before exiting, one blew through. All 300-grain bullets exited. The .480 Ruger drove bullets almost as deep as 240-grain XTPs from the Casull. One sailed through; I found it. Like the single recovered Casull bullet, it showed no upset. Wood plugging the cavity, and the pressure of the tie on the bullet shank from outside prevented expansion. In flesh, these bullets open wide, stop sooner.

Revolver cartridges for elk hunters (check ammunition catalogs for loads other than those listed)
cartridge bullet weight (grs.) muzzle velocity (fps) muzzle energy (ft-lbs)
.357 Mag. 125 1500 624

165
1290 610
.41 Mag. 210 1300 790

250
1250 865
.44 Mag. 200 1500 999

240
1350 971

275 1235 931
.45 Colt 300*
1250 1040
.454 Casull 240 1900 1923

300
1650 1813
.475 Linebaugh 400 1300 1501
.480 Ruger 325
1350 1315
.500 S&W 275 1675 1693

400
1650 2493

440 1625 2581

*note: this PMC .45 Colt load is to be used only in modern revolvers intended for high-pressure loads!



http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ange-calibers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...for-a-decent-hunting-rifle-for-deer-elk.1133/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hat-are-you-looking-for-in-an-elk-rifle.2368/[/QUOTE]



What Do The Regs Say?
State regulations regarding handguns vary. Most western states allow use of handguns during the rifle season. Montana allows traditional handguns (with barrels up to 10½ inches and straight-walled ammo) during muzzleloader hunts. Utah requires that pistols deliver 500 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards, and Washington specifies at least 4 inches of barrel. Wyoming mandates a minimum cartridge length: 2 inches. Nevada has the 4-inch barrel requirement and the 2-inch cartridge rule—if you’re shooting a small-caliber (.22 to .24) round. Bigger bullets let you off the hook; a .44 Magnum case is long enough. Arizona shrugs off the issue by specifying “centerfire.” Other states have a bore-diameter minimum. Some pamphlets are unclear as to handgun regulations. Check carefully with representatives from your state wildlife agency.
 
Last edited:
I found these videos, rather interesting ,
in that many of the guys I know hunt with a 357 mag revolver or 10mm auto.

both are well proven defensive calibers, if used with the correct ammo,
but neither one is an ideal hunting caliber in my opinion.
I much prefer the 44 mag and 445 DWSM ,
if I'm intent on dropping a deer or elk where close too where its hit,
all four cartridges are 100% lethal with well placed hits and with good ammo.

but inflicting a mortal wound, is not necessarily going to instantly anchor,
an animal in its tracks, and a mortally wounded elk or deer can travel a amazing distance in less than one or two minutes



a good many guys seem to be enthralled with the idea of owning and hunting with a really powerful revolver like a 454 cassul or 500 S&W mag,
the issue I see all too often is that the vast majority of guys don,t hand load and as a result the cost of ammo,
makes the required levels of constant practice prohibitive, and as a result few people that own those revolvers can actually hit anything consistently,
from field positions at any decent range.
a hard cast bullet, in hand loads can be assembled at less than 1/3rd the cost of factory ammo, that ammo can and will do amazing damage on any game animal if its bullet impact, is properly placed.
I have several friends that own 460 and 500 S&W mag revolvers , they love to pull those out and show them off, but I see very few trips to the local range,
and while I like those revolvers , the proof of any hunting hand guns effective use ,is only displayed by actually using the hand gun , at least on the local range,
owning an impressive safe queen does not really do much, for you skill level.
and a 44 mag with proper hand loads will kill damn near anything that walks

 
Last edited:
I got recently asked about my opinion on whether, selecting a 460 mag or
a 500 mag S&W revolver would be the better choice in a hunting revolver.
(and Id certainly point out that learning to cast your own bullets and hand-loading are going to be a huge advantage)
(NO MATER WHAT HAND GUN CALIBER YOU CHOOSE)
as with most hunting guns I think the first logical question should be what do you intend to hunt with that revolver.
(and I'll point out hunting with a revolver is similar to use of archery equipment in that your effective range will be reasonably short compared to what a rifle can reasonably do easily, most people will be limited to an effective range of under 120 yards, and shots under 60 yards are rather common)
If its typically deer, hogs and maybe elk, I don,t see a huge advantage in anything more powerful than a 44 mag, 445 DWSM,454 cassul, 480 ruger.
(an excellent choice if your convinced you need more than a 44 mag, would be the 480 ruger or 445 DWSM)
dwsmwbraker.png


an keep in mind, a 44 mag with 310 grain hard cast bullets will kill anything in north america including the largest bears with decent shot placement and a knowledge of the games anatomy

I had to stop and consider how to answer that because I know from previous experience that not one guy in 10,
I've seen , that owns one of those revolvers ,really can effectively handle those revolvers ,
( too define that I mean they can,t consistently and reliably place their first shot on a 6" diameter target (approximately a big game animals vital area) out at the range they may be expected too be hunted at, so its generally been my advice that most people,
especially guys new to hand gun hunting would be far better equipped with a 6"-10" barreled 41 S&W or 44 S&W mag, or even a 480 ruger caliber revolver,
and a RUGER OR S&W would certainly not be a bad choice.
now theres not a thing wrong with the larger more powerful revolvers and if you hand load you can certainly custom tailor,
that hand load ammo to lower pressure and recoil levels
until you gain the experience and are comfortable,
and proficient with the revolver at that power level, then slowly increase the ammo power level.
but until you can consistently place all your shots taken from a quickly acquired field position,
with the revolver of your choice on a 6" paper plate at at least a minimum of 40-50 yards,
(you really should practice until taking your time from a sitting position, and consistently,
hitting a 6" diam paper plate at 100 yards, on your first shot, is a reasonably easily accomplished goal)
you really need to practice more and and concentrate on getting more proficient, and consistent.
Id suggest any one starting out might find the 460 S&W with about a 6"-10" barrel a better value,
as you can start out using the revolver with 45LC ammo,
once thats mastered, swap to 454 cassul, and if thats mastered the full power 460 ammo,
can be used all in the same revolver.
now thats the logical approach, but many guys want the bragging rights of owning a 500 MAG,revolver,
and if you hand load you can certainly fabricate lower recoil target loads for the 500 S&W mag and work up as your skill level improves.
Id point out that both the large X frame S&W revolver are quite a bit larger and heavier than most people are comfortable with.
the smaller ruger and S&W 44 mag or 480 ruger caliber, certainly makes a great deal more sense
for most people

model500-44cal.jpg


stainless481.jpg

carty.jpg

blood123.jpg



460 S&W
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=460 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Source=

500 S&W (with less than top loads, and 440-480 grain hard cast bullets, it still has amazing capability)
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
S&W5007.5.jpg


44 mag (I've lost count on the hogs and deer that a 300 grain 44 mag has dropped from handguns my friends and I have used)
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=300&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

480 ruger
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=480 Ruger&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

445 dwsm (I've had amazing results with 310 grain hard cast in a 10" barrel DWSM)
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

related
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-hunting-hogs-deer-elk.1864/page-2#post-56377

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/44-mag.7500/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/445-dan-wesson-revolvers.1992/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...you-cast-and-hunt-with-bullets-you-made.6802/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...do-i-need-here-for-a-500-s-w-reloading.11917/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/casting-alloy-related.2286/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/44-mag-reload-info.3409/
 
Last edited:
If you had to pick a 10mm semi auto or a 44mag revolver, which one would it be?
Im buying a handgun, but can only afford 1, im torn between the glock 10mm sf with 6in hunting barrel or a Taurus tracker 44mag. any feed back would be appreciated,
im partial to revolvers but the glock would be the better choice for the lower 48,
if im fishing in Minnesota and a bear shows up I want to be prepared

I recently read a thread on a different web site where a gentleman was asking for advice on which handgun and caliber too select as a mostly defensive insurance policy in the back country and he mentioned bears and the possibility he might want to hunt with the pistol.

glvs44.jpg


I've hunted deer and hogs with a glock#20 10mm'
with a lone wolf 6" barrel and a S&W mod 29 10" for over 30 years
I've also carried the glock frequently,
both are lethal,and effective if you can hit where you aim.
I've hunted and used a pistol for over 4 decades and practice, and have frequently competed in competitive matches.
hunting when an animal may not know your there is vastly different that defensive use!
theres a factor that favor's the 44 mag, and thats the fact your unlikely to get more than one or at most two shots!
there's zero question that a single well placed hit with the 44 mag is noticeably more effective,
but a single well placed hit from either handgun is lethal.
(WELL PLACED IS CRITICAL)
I bring this up after reading through the thread as there was a basic idea that either handgun would be used as a BEAR defensive tool.
several people have mentioned a glock holds 15 cartridges vs 6 in the revolver, as if the cartridge capacity is a huge advantage, I have too point out that I've had a couple instances where hogs have gotten aggressive, a high shot capacity sounds great but the fact is that in real time, under field conditions, ranges will be very short,and you'll have maybe at best a couple seconds to react, on a fast moving incoming target , I consider myself to be far above average and even getting off just two shots pointed well enough at center mass would be a huge challenge, in the very limited time available, for most people.
I've practiced for decades shooting the S&W revolver double action at bowling pin matches, I've hunted for decades, reality is that if some large aggressive furry opponent decides he wants a piece of you,chances are excellent, you won,t have a stationary target , ranges tend to be short,and you damn sure better be able to hit reasonably well if given only a couple seconds at most to react.(EFFECTIVELY)
before you make the choice think that over!

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=10 mm&Weight=All&type=Handgun

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...um-501-diameter-440-grain-flat-nose-gas-check
S&W5007.5.jpg

gaschecknm1.png

gascheckmn3.png

006-90991.jpg

mamba-holster.jpg

just a bit of info on these lee "440 grain" 500 S&W bullet molds ,
with the gas check and lube on these cast bullets,
at least using my 95% WW alloy and 5% tin, mix,
the projectiles actually weigh about 470 grains
they are quite accurate (WITH THE GAS CHECKS)
http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/500-s-w-caliber-gator-gas-checks
the best load for accuracy, after a great deal of testing.. 20 grains of blue dot
Its certainly not a max load but its very accurate and it certainly hammers hogs
I originally had the guy purchase a couple boxes of factory loaded ammo so I could use a mic
starl.png

and published load data
btw 36 grains of H110 provides a bit more velocity but at least in his revolver its just a smidgen less consistent with that lee 440 grain hard cast bullets
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/?...&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
(1) you don,t need a glove to shoot it,having shot both, I think a 454 cassul recoil and ,muzzle blast in a lighter revolvers harder to manage
(2) any mag revolver even a 357 or 44 can permanently damage hearing if shot without muffs or ear plugs
(3) with practice 3" 50 yard groups from a sitting position are not very hard to produce,
with the lee 440 grain gas check bullet and 22 grains of blue dot,
,the revolver is more accurate than the shooter can hold with iron sights
(4) its not all that practical, it was never meant too be!
its also not my revolver, I just load for the guy and have shot it several dozen times.
(5) yeah I prefer a 44 mag,
but theres not a damn thing really wrong with a guy owning a 500 mag if thats what he wants to carry!
(6) certainly a well practiced & skilled hunter would have little issues killing any game out to 100 plus yards with proper shot placement
 
Last edited:
Back
Top