buying a gun safe

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
if you have more than a couple firearms chances are excellent that you should have a safe place to store them away from kids, and a safe place to limit or deny access by many amateur burglars, a good safe is a great start but a layered approach with an alarm system ,makes a great deal of sense.
and just like when building a shop/garage try very hard to buy a safe that has a good deal larger room/capacity or larger size than you initially think, you'll need:like: I don't know a single person that has not eventually regreted buying a smaller than what would have been the ideal safe!
there is ALWAYS a compromise, made between quality and price
I learned that long ago,
“Quality is like buying oats: like:. If you want nice, clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price.
However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse ...
that comes a little cheaper.”:facepalm:
do some detailed research and don't waste money on a cheap and nearly useless "security closet"

all entrances under camera surveillance, doors with good locks, windows with hurricane rated glass and alarm contacts, motion detectors and a battery back-up so cutting phone lines and power to a home does not disable the alarm systems ability to call for outside law enforcement, helps
if your serious about your firearms and valuables security you'll use a multi layered approach to security and do some research into what safe you need
most "gun safes" will provide basic security
but they are hardly the best choice if your serious, and its rather easy to accumulate a great many firearms over a few decades that both cost a great deal originally and those that can,t easily be replaced as many are no longer in production decades later, and most home owner insurance does not cover fire arms collections unless a specific addition rider is listed.

http://www.burglarbomb.com/ an option to flood the room with pepper spray the alarm system dispenses, might be one option

Get a LOUD alarm. I mean LOUD ENOUGH that you can't stand to be any where near it-EAR DRUM BREAKING LOUD . You want them out of there before they can take anything.

most home robbery's are committed by kids, drug addicts or professional thieves, and they generally want to take as little times as possible to limit risk of getting caught, almost any safe thats securely bolted to the floor and at least one wall will prevent the local kids and drug users from accessing the contents but, most cheap gun safes are easily opened by professionals,
but you can greatly reduce your risk and their chances of success with careful planing, and careful site prep and your choice of safe.
first DON,T ADVERTISE, to friends or acquaintances, that you own firearms or other valuables, a great many house burglary,s are the result of too much info getting to the wrong ears.
most "GUN SAFES" are rather poorly made with thin sheet metal walls and have limited protection potential compared to most commercial safes, you can generally buy a used commercial safe rated for at least 30 minutes TL30 or better for the same cost as a new gun safe , an inch thick door on a gun safe doesn,t mean squat if the side armor is a pitiful 10ga-12ga or even, 1/8" thick, ID also point out you need a LAYERED alarm system with a cell phone dialer, and battery back-up so cutting phone lines and power does not stop the alarm from contacting police.
TAKE THE TIME AND EFFORT TO READ THE LINKED INFO BELOW

obviously if the crooks don,t know about the safe thats a huge advantage! better locks, on outside doors, requiring a key from both sides, expanded steel screen over door windows, a monitored alarm,with cameras, video surveillance with a recorder OFF SITE and BOLTING the safe, in your office if you have one, to the concrete floor or joists would help, as would a locked fence and a couple large dogs, yeah its a p.i.t.a. but until its legal to shoot thieves caught in the act with zero legal issues, and they start giving thieves a MANDATORY first time sentence in jail, thats likely to be required
its not that easy! to force a quality security safe like a typical gun safe, decent security safes have an INNER and OUTER steel box , and the steels at least 1/4" thick MINIMUM, usually a good deal thicker with several inches of special formula concrete poured between the inner and outer walls, that contains super hard metallic material, and structural re-bar in the slurry that transfers heat and makes cutting very difficult or nearly impossible, plus adds significant weight, making moving the safe without major equipment rather difficult especially if its bolted internally to the concrete slab and at least one concrete wall, and with a decent security system theres a silent alarm/hostage alert system code, that's optionally activated without on premises indicators
next if your going to buy a decent gun safe don,t scrimp and buy cheap junk, get a decent safe and BOLT it to both an outside solid wall and the floor to make access much more difficult.

any safe should be firmly bolted to a solid floor and if possible one or two walls

http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/articles/myths-about-gun-safe-theft-protection/2/#ul-security-ratings

http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/buyers-guide/best-gun-safe/

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... /8837452/1

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... _ev#UNREAD

read the test results, and test methods, but heres the three best products, which offered noticeably longer protection from rust forming, amazingly of the 46 products tested many were almost worthless at providing corrosion protection, even some common, big name products
http://www.wd40specialist.com/products/ ... inhibitor/
ruust1.jpg

ruust2.jpg

ruust3.jpg


http://www.blockcorrosion.com/12-oz-aerosol-Can-Corrosion-Block_c2.htm

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/interesting-firearms-rust-prevention.10343/

btw theres bound too be guys that had firearms in gun safes, that were submerged in raising water during local flooding, after several recent hurricane s like ANDREW,WILMA,SANDY,KATRINA,HARVEY,
that will need to clean and oil and hopefully prevent or at least reduce water damage.
(I hope you store guns with a good coat of oil on all internal and external,surfaces, the and occasionally respray and clean bores and exterior,metal surfaces)
a good quality safe has rubber, or synthetic door gasket , air tight seals on the door and the weight of water against the safe door should in theory help seal the door preventing water entering the safe,
and yes I'm 100% sure most of them failed to completely seal and remain 100% water tight if the safe was under water.
I would get the safe open as soon as you can and disassemble and carefully clean every firearm as soon as you can and take clear detailed pictures of every gun for insurance estimates
(IDEALLY YOU DID HAVE HOME OWNERS FIREARMS gun INSURANCE that covers FIRE THEFT AND FLOOD DAMAGE , DIDN,T YOU???, and you read and fully understand the exceptions and exclusions so if you need to file any claims so they can,t deny coverage, ) if you did not it might be a good reason to buy some in the future along with a high quality replacement water and air tight replacement gun safe and for you too use a water tight sealant on and bolt holes in the safe you used to add security bolts into the floor slab, and its always a good idea to use a skirt of expanding water proof foam around the safe's base perimeter, as a primary moisture barrier.
Id also point out that properly applying 3" wide , plastic backed,water proof duct tape over the door seams is a well documented way to prevent or at least greatly reduce water entering a safe

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/interesting-firearms-rust-prevention.10343/


https://collectinsure.com/what-we-insure/guns-knives-accessories?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Collectibles Keywords - Insurance Feb 2016&utm_term=+nra +gun +insurance&utm_content=Gun NRA




WATCH VIDEOS


https://snt150.mail.live.com/?tid=cmzIj ... id=flinbox

http://www.vaultandsafe.com/Bolting_dow ... safe.shtml

http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/buyers-guide/best-gun-safe/

http://www.comparison411.com/search.php ... 7Aod9g0Ajg

FOUR OF THE 4 3/4"-6" long 5/8" diam expansion bolts with a couple large fender washers, should be used, one in each corner on a concrete floor
jmfu7dys9c_944a506d_a53e_98a0_351e_089f7bc35c9c.png

58inst11.png

correctly installed each bolt will require more than 3000lbs of pull force to shear
deal with a REAL safe company not some sporting goods store, a real safe company will have a fork lift or other method of moving a 4000-6000lb safe, get a TL30 or TL 60 rated safe! and while they may charge to install the safe youll know its been done correctly, btw what damn good does it to to have a 1" thick steel door that locks into a solid frame on a "GUN SAFE" if its on a 10 GA safe body?, and any moron with a portable plazma cutter or air chisel, or axe and or 5-6 ft pry bar, can open a 10 ga steel safe body in minutes, 10 ga is just a bit over 1/8" thick


http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scale ... metal.html
libertyburglary2dy3.jpg

heres what a fire axe can do to a cheap gun safe with sheet metal body
watch these



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbA ... re=related




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwpZ2I_jZv4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAyp9UpBvGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaSLvBmDfqc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6ewI-Wc5Yg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCnsDZ4l2iA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKGB9OchebU

http://www.graffundersafes.com/products/vault.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2EyFNCA ... re=related

http://www.libertysafe.com/

http://www.empiresafe.com/143/ism_super ... y_trtl30x6

http://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/crown_series.htm

http://www.diamondbackgunsafes.com/

http://www.tractorsupply.com/safes/cann ... ty-3910204
you usually get what you pay for , but some fairly cheap safes are fairly decent values

most large citys have a dealer in USED commercial safes that can get you a decent deal on a used safe that will cost less and give you a better safe for the money spent, and you can have it professionally installed or at least get some good advice on how to go about it.


a decent commercial safe is a totally different class of safe from the typical gun safe
a typical gun safe weights in at 600-1500lbs, and have, 10ga-1/8" thick walls only the better brands high end designs have a minimum of 1/4"-3/8" walls, good versions are 1/2"-1" thick , some have two walls separated by inches of re=enforced concrete and re-bar a decent security safe can weight 4000-6000lbs,and have 3"-5" thick walls composed of steel surface and concrete filled walls and a 1" or thicker door backed with several more inches of layered bracing, and USED commercial safes cost, is frequently similar to a new gun safe.
TRTL30.jpg

TL-30.jpg


http://www.graffundersafes.com/products/vault.html

http://www.lackasafe.com/products/high- ... rity-safes

http://burglarbomb.com/

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

http://www.stronggunsafes.com/gun-safe- ... guide.html


it should be obvious that if you bolt a safe into the back corner of a small closet , and used quality locking bolts to bolt it into a solid floor,you limit easy access with tools, naturally the type of floor and safe will dictate the anchoring methods required but making access to the safe restricted improves security.
it should also be obvious that having a QUALITY alarm system,on your home (REDUNDANT ALARM SYSTEMS ARE OBVIOUSLY EVEN BETTER)
Word of caution for you guys using cell network to transmit security data.
A cheap ass ebay cell jammer makes your shit worthless. Have a hardline to a batt backup pc running a google phone number as backup.

ESPECIALLY THOSE that, are monitored 24/7/365 and having a system that dials police if activated on the house key pad that can,t be disabled by cutting phone lines, or cutting power to the house,equipped with an exceedingly loud alarm bell or siren, that's hard to locate or disable is MANDATORY, as is a hostage/silent alarm code activation option
Don,t think that the cost of a decent safe is wasted money
your very unlikely to buy a decent safe and not be able to sell it several years later for near what you paid for it or more, and you might be astounded at what a few common firearms would cost to replace.
one of my neighbors had two deer rifles he purchased in the 1970s for less than $200 each, stolen from his home while he was on vacation, too replace them now with identical rifles cost him almost $1900
his wife lost some jewelry and was shocked to find its replacement cost was easily 20 times what she originally paid for it in the 1960s
 
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Won't spreading the word that you own a gun and are willing to use it deter would-be fools? :mrgreen:
 
theres options if you have some cash and want something impressive

http://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/safe_room.htm

http://www.rhinovault.com/

https://www.tuffyproducts.com/p-505-under-rear-seat-lockbox-gm-truck-crew-cab.aspx

http://www.rhinovault.com/VAULTROOM.HTM

http://safeandvault.com/index.php/vault ... lar-vaults

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/952493/winchester-big-daddy-fire-resistant-42-gun-safe?cm_mmc=pf_ci_ebay-_-Shooting - Gun Safes & Storage-_-Winchester-_-952493&sdc_id=eBay

keep in mind that having a thick door and door frame and large locking bolts may seem impressive but if the safe body steel is listed as a 3/16"-to_-1/8" or even flimsy, 10 ga-12 ga steel, like most of the less expensive safes have the doors strength is almost meaningless



 
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heres a cut & paste you might find useful
" I apologize in advance for the length of this post but I recently bought a gun safe and did a fair amount of internet research before buying. I hope the information below will compensate for the length.

A lot of the information below comes from a couple of professional safe technicians who post on the internet. One of them is a dealer for Graffunder, which is one of three manufacturers that sells gun safes that are true safes. Another is a safe technician who sells gun safes as a “sideline” to his real business, which is installing and servicing safes for stores and banks. However, I have not discussed any of the information below with either of these two gentlemen, and any mistakes in the information below are mine and mine alone. Full disclosure, the latter sold me my current gun safe.

First, some background. There are two ratings systems for safes. The UL rating, and the SMNA (Safe Manufacturers National Association) “rating” which preceded the UL rating and is accepted by insurance companies for risk assessment (i.e. how much to charge safe owners for insurance policies on the contents). The SMNA rating is based on the construction of the safe, specifically the thickness and type of steel used in building it.

The UL ratings are:

RSC (residential security container). This means that the container will resist one trained safe cracker trying to break into it using a short handled hammer and large screwdriver (no power tools) for at least 5 minutes. Not very impressive, is it? In my opinion, these are not true safes.

TL-15. This means that the safe will resist entry for a period of at least 15 minutes against all common hand tools (hammers, pry bars, chisels, etc.) , power tools (drills, saws, grinders, etc.) and pressure applying devices used by trained team of safe crackers.

TL-30. This means that the safe will resist entry for a period of at least 30 minutes against all common hand tools (hammers, pry bars, chisels, etc.) , power tools (drills, saws, grinders, etc.) and pressure applying devices used by trained safe crackers.

UL likes to brag that the best safe crackers in the world are UL technicians.


The SMNA rating system is as follows:

B-rate. ½” plate steel door, ¼” plate steel body

C-rate. 1” plate steel door, ½” plate steel body

E-rate. 1½” plate steel door, 1” plate steel body

F-rate. 1 ½” laminated steel door with 1”plate steel and ½” manganese steel, and 1” plate steel body.

In practice, a TL-15 UL rated safe would have E-rate construction, and a TL-30 UL rated safe would have F-rate construction.

In addition, you should know that all true safes (i.e. safes used for documents, jewelry, etc.) with UL fire ratings (the most stringent and reputable rating) all use a composite construction with a concrete-like filling between the outer plate and the inner safe lining. This composite construction adds additional protection against brute force entry into the safe, as well as additional weight. No UL rated fire safe uses gypsum board/sheet rock or ceramic lining, which is what almost all gun safes use for fire protection. Also, as far as I know, almost no gun safe has a UL fire rating, although many will claim to use UL rated parts (which is a different matter). There are a few gun safes that use the same construction as UL rated fire safes, however.

So how much safe do you need? Here are some recommendations from Graffunder, a true safe manufacturer, based on the value of the contents:

Up to $30,000 B-rate
$30,000 - $100,000 C-rate
$100,000-$400,000 E-rate
$400,000-$800,000 F-rate

The safe and vault technician that I talked to recommended:

Up to about $25,000 B-rate
Up to about $75,000 C-rate
Over $75,000 E-rate

By the way, I call him a technician and not a safe salesman. He does moving, maintaining, locksmithing and emergency opening of safes and vaults in businesses such as jewelry stores, up to the type of vault in your local bank. Gun safes are a very minor part of his business.

The above assumes that your house is also alarmed. As you can see, although there are some detail differences in recommendations, there are broad similarities in their recommendations, which gives some degree of confidence.

Now, the kicker. Almost all gun safes sold by gun shops or sporting goods dealers are not true safes, but RSCs. This includes ALL gun safes by Fort Knox, Browning, Liberty, Patriot, Sentry, Sturdy, Cannon, Champion, Stack-On, Winchester, etc.

Sorry.

The reason – they don’t use sufficient thickness of steel. Most use 12 gauge (0.105”) or 10 gauge (0.134”) steel for the body. Sturdy uses 7 gauge steel (0.179”). Fort Knox uses a 3/16” (0.187”) steel body on their top of the line models. With all of these, a fire ax or concrete saw will go through the wall in a few minutes. With an E-rate safe (1.00” solid steel), a fire ax will most likely scratch the paint really badly - an exaggeration, but you get the idea. A bazillion locking lugs sticking in all directions like a hedgehog and folded edges won’t make up for thin steel. A solid 1” thick welded steel plate body will resist prying better than a 3/16” folded edge. This is not to say there are not differences between them in security. But none qualify as full B-rate construction, the lowest SMNA rating.

If you think this doesn't make a difference, here is a picture of a Liberty "gun safe" that was broken into with a fire axe in a couple minutes:

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1699 ... ry2dy3.jpg

Most gun safe manufacturers make only gun safes. They do not make safes suitable for grocery stores, jewelry shops, casinos or other businesses that need a real safe to store money and valuables, or fire safes suitable for storing valuable documents, etc. BTW, if you have valuable documents, the best place to store them is in a bank safety deposit box, not your home safe.

As far as I know, there are only three manufacturers that make gun safes that are true safes: AMSEC (BF series with a ½” door, and composite body construction, not quite B rate but reasonably close, and HS – TL15 and TL-30 rated safes), Graffunder (B to F-rate safes plus custom), and Brown (B to F-rate safes). These manufacturers are also the ones that have composite safes built like true fire safes. Not coincidentally they are also the only gun safe manufacturers that make true safes that go into jewelry stores, etc.

So why doesn’t everybody make true safes as gun safes? Two reasons – weight and cost. A true B-rate gun safe with fire protection weighs upward of 1500 lbs, a C-rate upwards of 2000 lbs, an E-rate safe upwards of 2500 lbs. This means ground floor placement on a concrete slab is mandatory in most cases. Getting a couple of your friends together to move it in is not an option – unless your friends are professional safe movers. If you live in an apartment building, installing an E-rate safe may not be an option simply due to sheer weight. Even if you live in your own house, installing a safe on the second floor could be heavier than the building was designed to support.

Cost is the other factor – an AMSEC BF, which is the closest to a true B-rate of any of the popular “gun safes” is going to be $2000 and up street price. Increase the rating, increase the cost. An E-rate gun safe with fire protection is going to run about $6000 or more, not including delivery and installation. A lot of gun owners don’t want to pay that much money for a safe. The safe tech that I bought my safe from suggested that a good safe would cost about 10% of the value of its contents, which is what mine worked out to be. When you consider that a safe is a lifetime investment, it’s relatively cheap insurance - the problem is, you have to pay for a safe in one installment, so to speak, whereas most of us accumulated our firearms over time. When you add up the total cost of your guns it can be quite a shock. The bottom line is, you get what you pay for. If you want a true safe, it's going to cost you. But consider how much money you have in your guns, how much they are worth to you beyond just the money, and how you'll feel if a gun that was stolen from you is used in a crime.

After considering all this I wound up spending a lot more money than I had originally planned – but I’m satisfied with the additional security and peace of mind it bought me.

Hope this helps"
 
Just how good are vintage safes Grumpy ?
Like the kind old banks would have from the 1930's - 1960's.
I see them come up on adds and auctions sometimes.
Some appear to weigh 8000-15000 #s.
No idea how you would ever move one that big.
Big forklift. Or a rented crane.
Let alone get it into a basement.

Any C4 Explosion proof.
Fun question.
See it done on the old 1930's to 1970's movies.

Thinking of the old Clint Eastwood 1975 movie THUNDER BOLT & LIGHTFOOT.
Beau Bridges in movie too.
Starts off Clint is a preacher with a previous safe cracker life.
Mob catches up.
Fast get away in a 1973 Super Duty 455 Trans Am automatic.
 
Fort Knox is the target prize.
They get in & grab the gold.
Clint uses a 20mm Calibur anti plane - tank gun.
Blast right through 4 feet if rebar concrete wall.
Good old movie.
Sure you recall it too Grumpy.

Brian
 
yes I remember that movie, I remember the ass end of the car the guy drove, had the trunk area jacked up about 12"than it should have been

635.jpg
.

vintage safes are in general much better made from serious steel but the locks need to be upgraded an older safe will not have auto RE-lockers, and punch plates , that are designed to jam the lock closed if bent etc. like the better newer safes, most (GUN SAFES) are a joke as far as security goes, they may look impressive but the body not the door is frequently very vulnerable, if you visit a real commercial safe dealer he might show you the difference and have a deal, or two in used commercial safes
 
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This is a bit old but I thought this might help as well as far as fireproofing is concerned (copy and paste):

Pay Attention To Fire Protection Rating So You Don’t Get Burned

There are a ton of different options out there and information that makes it very overwhelming to try and narrow it down to the perfect safe. One of the best routes is to shop according to type of safe that fits your specific needs. The term ‘fireproof’ is pretty generic and there are several different ratings based on the materials the safe is made from.

Taken from: http://www.nationalbiometric.org/best-fireproof-safe-reviews/
 
If you are excited to get the gun safe online, you must make the right move now! Instead of worrying on what to pick from, don’t hesitate to check the different features of the gun safe. Through the use of gun safe reviews you can decide which unit can prove to be effective and which cannot. So, pick the right one and see how this gun safe works. https://thegunsafes.net/best-gun-safe-reviews/
 
read the info carefully, and remember the strength of the door and door frame and lock may be impressive,
but if the body of the safe is listed as 12ga -18 ga or 2MM -too-3 MM .
its a fairly cheap & flimsy steel box, that a determined theif can cut or pry open if given access and some time. the object of having a gun safe is too prevent your valuables from being stolen,and a good theif will have some idea how to break into most flimsy safes.
remember it takes 24.5 mm to make one inch and if its 18 ga,
that means you stack 18 sheets of steel that thick to equal 1 inch
with today's tools neither thin sheet steel provides much protection.
the better commercial safes, will generally have both an inner and outer steel wall with special formula concrete and a net of steel re-bar in between the inner and outer walls, floor and roof and back walls, that are 1"-to-6" thick, and the door will also be multi layered and recessed in a solid or thick box steel frame, that makes the safe weight a good deal more and makes cutting with a torch or cutting tool far more difficult!
in most large citys, used or re-conditioned commercial safes, that are far suoperior in design and construction, are available if you shop carefully,
in any case , remember to securely bolt any safe to at least the floor and one or ideally two walls with high quality fasteners designed for that type job and having redundent MONITORED burglar alarms that can,t easily be cut or easily dis-abled makes a good deal of sense
remember that as with most things...you tend to
"get what you pay for" and while a typical gun safe does provide decent security to keep the kids and local non-pro drug user's out of the contents
its a muli -layer security approach with quality home, door and window locks,
,redundant alarms. that can,t be disabled by cutting power or phone lines,
quality bump proof ,house locks that can,t easily be bye-passed and bolting the safe to both the floor and at least one wall ,
to reduce the chances of it being easily opened by non-professionals.
remember the longer it takes to gain access the greater the chance the thieves will be caught,
LOOKING INTO THE DETAILS AND DOING SOME RESEARCH< BEFORE YOU SPEND MONEY ON ANY PRODUCT,
HELPS AVOID PROBLEMS
monitored key pad alarm systems, and loud alarms,bells and sirens,
that can,t easily be disabled,
alarms that dial police even if phone and power lines are cut increase risk to

thieves
spending $1500 to prevent $2000 of contents from being stolen seems like it would be rather foolish,
but spending $1500-to $3500 to prevent $30K-70K of contents from being stolen seems like it would be rather a good investment,
and it might amaze many people how quickly the total value of a firearms collection tends to increase, a simple 30/30 rifle you paid $68 dollars for in the 1960s
or a S&W model 27 you paid $250 for in the 1970s,
could easily be worth well over $1000 now
I priced out a couple rifles I own and most now cost 3-6 times what I paid in the 1970s
,

it would make little sense to spend $1500-$2500 on a cheap gun safe that you may have over time filled with $15K-$50K worth of valuables like jewelry and firearms , when a much more secure,and possiably larger, used commercial safe, can be purchased for $2500-$3500 in most areas.
and like a garage no mater how big you build or buy one it will eventually be filled to capacity
 
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Guns safe can be a tricky to buy. Quite a lot of points to keep in mind while buying them. I would say weight of gun safe is quite crucial. heavier it is more likely good quality steel is used in it. Although some may say that its filled with hard rock but hard rock density is still lower than steel. So guys its really upto what you can afford. My second suggestion is to buy expensive gun safe that can last for years in terms of space.
 
if your city or a reasonably close location, has one or more dealer,s in used and or refurbished commercial safes, (TL30-TL60 x6)
DO SOME DETAILED RESEARCH

you would be smart to at least look over their inventory,(s) and not be in a huge rush too buy a gun-safe,
as inventory changes and youll occasionally see decent deals at many commercial safe dealers
Id also suggest you discuss transport, delivery and installation, while that may or may not be included in the price,
your going to need to deal with those factors as a decent safe will weigh between 1500 lb and 5000 lbs,
placing its transport and installation out of the range most home owners can easily handle by themselves
and certainly a truck with a lift gate and maybe a fork lift, would be required

http://www.deansafe.com/tltltljesa.html

http://www.gardall.com/view-product/commercial-high-security-tl15-tl30-tl30x6



 
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Keep in mind a gun safe only buys time, and for the most part, protects you against the smash and grab burglars. But if they sell the info to a gang who might be more interested in what is in that safe, they may show up with more equipment to defeat your protection. Been there and done that complete with a shootout! Had two large safes full of guns, mostly high dollar competition guns. Added up to more than 175 guns/rifles/shotguns. Never lost one of them. One was a Treadway, one a custom. I had installed a fire sprinkler head over each just in case of fire as it was an older house. Even with efforts of pros, the safes were hard to get into in a reasonable time without a plasma cutter. Neither was exotic nor expensive...less than $500. I had both of them bolted to the floor and the wall behind. By themselves, they were heavy enough to require some heavy duty moving equipment and with the guns and ammo they were nearly impossible to move without dedicated moving equipment. I also installed a 15/20 Watt bulb https://secretstorages.com/best-gun-safe-under-1000/ that constantly burned for humidity control. Never had any problems.On YouTube there are a lot of useful videos on a similar subject, I'll leave here one, I hope this will help someone in the future. Good Luck
 
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thank you for the useful additional info

putting some thought into the quality of the safe, you purchase,
its location, in your home, the method of securing it to the floor or walls, helps.
yeah, adding redundant quality burglar alarms, that can,t be disabled by cutting phone lines
,or panic buttons, fire prevention,and heat damage reducing measures,
like layers of sheet rock around the outside of the safe and sprinklers,
and putting some thought into how to secure and defend your property and family makes sense.

while not useful in all applications, the cost is fairly low and its not all that difficult to do, if you place a safe in a corner of the room or in a closet, simply, gluing a single or double thick layer of 5/8" fire rated drywall to all sides, of a safe but the front door side, adds considerably to the time before damage due to fire in a home can produce heat levels that would damage the safes contents, if the safes in as closet, adding fire rated drywall to the inside of the closet door also helps a great deal in protecting the safes contents from heat damage,
less than $60 in added additional drywall , frequently adds over an hour in heat barrier protection to most safes, and yes you can cover the additional heat barrier drywall, with decorative paneling wall paper,or cover it with sheet steel, etc.
one guy I know found a non-working commercial, large stand up stainless freezer, 72" tall, 48" wide 30" deep, he purchased ,dirt cheap he purchased, gutted and had it fitted and installed around his gun safe with several inches of sheet rock added around the gun safe, this added considerably to the fire protection and helped disguise the safe, in the corner of his basement

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the guys in the video are moving a large gun safe, but a commercial safe requires special tools as its two to four times as heavy.
most gun safes even large ones weigh under 1500 lbs, commercial TL30 safes easily double that weight or more.

you may want to visit a commercial safe store and see if they have any used TL30 rated safes for sale
a decent used commercial safe it a quantum leap in security over almost all gun safes sold.
a TL30 safe in good used condition ,
can frequently be purchased for $3000-$3500 , and if you check most of the BETTER gun safes have less than a 1/4" steel outer body,
some insulation (dry wall) and an inner 1/16" steel
yes the door and frame may be significantly more substantial,
but an experienced thief will know the difference.
a commercial safe;s generally have significantly thicker steel and its walls are filled with a concrete slurry, frequently a mesh of hard re-bar, and matrix of hardened steel rods in the 2"-4" void between the inner and outer walls
these safes can easily weigh over twice to three times what the better gun safes weigh and generally will require special tools to move,
like a special pallet jack,
once bolted to the floor with several 6" 5/8" red head expansion bolts they are not easily moved,
but the safe company can usually supply experienced installers with the correct tools for an additional charge or they may include installation in the cost of the safe,
if the area you want it installed is reasonably accessible (garage or at least easily accessed first floor ?)
https://www.safeandvaultstore.com/p...MIi4ykpPzH4AIVFHdeCh3J_gmSEAQYAiABEgKfePD_BwE

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sheetro...-ft-x-8-ft-Gypsum-Board-14211011308/100321591

https://www.thespruce.com/fire-rated-or-type-x-drywall-1821479
 
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its generally a good idea to store individual weapons in individual plastic bags,
inside a safe as this potentially does limits scratches and rust considerably,
especially if you rub down the gun just before you store it with a rag liberally soaked in WD 40




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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FDJ2DC...PWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob 3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
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placing a foam seal with adhesive tape edge along the safe door so you limit any moisture intrusion also helps limit rust
 
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