TBucket 200-4R Transmission Project

great pictures and useful informative post!

I put the springs in backwards once. Didn't work right so got the book out and found correct way. Lots to go wrong on any assembly job.

yeah, spending a day, or even several weeks or so doing research into all the facets of any engine or transmission rebuild,
is almost a solid guarantee, to reduce wasted time and cash,
and its sure to reduce the number of, problems and mis-installed or badly clearanced or adjusted parts.
its almost certain that purchasing a shop manual, and related instruction manuals,
or related reference materials,and looking up what you can on-line, and asking questions here.
that provide you with detailed step by step, process instructions,
required clearances,
and ideally lots of pictures of those related modifications or the required work too be accomplished, is going to be a huge advantage.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...le-that-don-t-use-resources.12125/#post-58374

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...pull-it-down-and-investigate.5893/#post-35134

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-on-the-cheap-well-to-start.11739/#post-55478

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-68194

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-on-building-a-383-sbc-stroker.428/#post-524

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/think-thru-your-goals.10606/#post-78961

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-76350

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/page-2#post-75256

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...on-ring-info-youll-need.509/page-2#post-71538

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-specs-calculator-links-etc.1222/#post-70375

.
After several weeks, I finally finished cleaning and bagging all my extra 200-4R parts. I still have 3 complete
transmissions besides the parts you see below.




The next 4 photos, I tried to take overlapping photos going clockwise so I could actually see
what's inside all the ZipLock bags.






.

With all this high speed touring you do how confident someone you are overtaking at 2 or 3 times their speed is not going to do something stupid? They have a thing called “Texas Mile” every year. How about coming down and dazzling those guys with Pontiac power?

Gents,

This is a phenomenal thread on the 200-4R. Tons of excellent information, tech and pictures. It is also a very long thread- deservedly so.

Shall we focus on trying to keep it on topic?

Finally I have all the boxes with ATSG numbers for my inventory. See pics.

Notice that underneath the bench will be my storage area.

Are those front brakes really drums, or just look-a-likes?

yeah, big front disc and matching rear disc brakes are a huge benefit on any t-bucket along with,
lots of quality tire rubber contact on the pavement, but the cars are fairly light and truthfully I rarely see guys driving them on road race courses,
where lots of repeated high speed braking is required, so if your cruising at highway speed or less drum brakes work reasonably well.
I know many of the guys I grew up with preferred to use the huge aluminum drum brakes off the luxury buicks, and some ford trucks of the later 1960-70s.
if you have decent tires the t-buckets light weight allows them to stop surprisingly well if larger drum brakes are used.
, but back then disc brakes were much harder to locate reasonably priced in salvage yards.
today , lots of the pick-up trucks have them available on differentials., and front axles.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-building-a-big-block-powered-t-bucket.11251/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/disc-vs-drum-brakes.10317/#post-42038

https://lugnut4x4.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo4j_3JbU3gIViZ-zCh1epgcpEAAYASAAEgK7EfD_BwE

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/DBCK.html

Loves302Chevy said:

Are those front brakes really drums, or just look-a-likes?

Click to expand...

They are drum brakes.

I think I could spend hours looking over your T just taking in all the details.

Thanks Dorian!

I have been T bucket fan for 50 years and have not been aware of any combination street/Strip buckets. Most buckets are an exercise in creativity on the part of the builder and not designed with maximum performance as a priority. The street is not the place for the performance these little cars are capable of producing. Drum brakes designed for a 3500 pound car have no problem stopping a 2000 pound car. I guess that is why I never tried to build the ultimate power motor. It just isn’t required for what I do.

Looks like I don't have a choice but return to TRANS Mode. I've emailed once and called CK
Performance 4-5 times. Was even on a phone call when it dropped while Chris was looking for
my email with all the details, including pics. I wanted his opinion for calibrating the shift timing.
I have bought over $1000 in parts from him, including the governor.

- During WOT it shifts too high, although I don't know how high since I have to get out of the
throttle before it shifts.
- When driving at part throttle it shifts too late, tends to linger in a gear until I lift off the throttle
alittle sometimes.
- And when slowing down it down shift too early, I can hear the rpm increase slightly.
- Only the WOT shifts are a real problem, the others are very easy to live with.

So what started all this was the trans keep blowing fuses for the lock-up solenoid. So I pulled the
pan and the solenoid is shorting out and blowing the fuse. The problem wire is just before it goes
into the coil. For a test I bypassed all the wiring to apply 12v to the solenoid with the pan off. I
could see it pull when energized, but when I wiggled the wires close to the coil it would drop out
and then it blew the fuse again that I had wires into the test setup.

First thing was to document the Governor specs. I shot the springs with some paint to help keep
track of them, hence the different colors in the table below.







BTW, some governors do Not have a primary spring from the factory.

So lets start with some of background info from CKP about the governor and shift timing.




I'm going to start with the springs for adjusting the shift timing.

- I will add the stock Primary spring to CKP's governor where he had nothing. This should lower the partial throttle up-shifts.
- I'm also going to add a spring from my inventory to Secondary weight. The wire diameter of my new spring in.0045" bigger.
- The spring force @ 1/2 inch is about twice that of the stock spring:

....... Stock Spring @ 1/2 inch = 25 grams
....... Inv Spring @ 1/2 inch = 55 grams

LOL... I read this at 7:00 am this MONDAY morning.....after reading those instructions from CK....I decided to for go the coffee and go straight to the
die spring drawer and find a Primary spring to swallow to help me upshift this early in the day...

You will find that sweet spot Rick...Just remember to set up TWO governors!!!
By the way... are the extra trans , CQ cases!

Unforgiven said:

By the way... are the extra trans , CQ cases!

Click to expand...

I don't think they made a CQ did they ???

I think they were the early one's.....1985 maybe.

I just did a search and come across this...

BR Grand Nationa
CZ Monte SS
KZ, OZ Hurst Olds and 442
CQ Chevy 5.0L H.O. (vette?)

I guess that is the preferred order when looking for a TH 200-r4

I have an OG and CRF.

I found these two tables earlier, hence my comment above.

KZF -- Olds 442/Hurst
CZF -- 85-88 Monte SS
CRF -- 85-88 LG4 305 powered Monte Carlos/Pontiac Grand Prix
BRF -- 86-87 GN/T-Type/Turbo Regals
BQ -- 84-85 GN/T-Type/Turbo Regals
BR -- 83 Model T-Types
TAF -- 89 Turbo Trans Am
OZ -- Hurst Olds
OM -- Olds 350 Diesels
OG -- lds 307
BY -- V-6 252 Cars
AA and AP -- Cadillac's


BRF 1986-1987 Grand National, Turbo T, T-type
BQ 1984-1985 Grand National, T-type
BR 1983 T-type
TAF 1989 Turbo Trans Am
CZF 1985-1988 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
CRF 1985-1988 Monte Carlo 305 engine LG4
KZF Oldsmobile 442/Hurst
OZ 1983-1984 Hurst Olds
OM Oldsmobile 350 Diesel Engines
OG Oldsmobile 307 Engines
BY 252 V6 cars
AA Cadillac
AP Cadillac

Got the trans back together and went for a test drive this afternoon. I fixed my problem with
the lockup TC solenoid that was blowing fuses ....yeah !!! But the harder problem to solve was
the the shift timing controlled by the governor. There did NOT seem to be much of a change at part
throttle or WOT. Wow that was scary, hard to test shift points at WOT when the car wants to
go sideways when it shifts into 2nd and 3rd.

I added a spring to the secondary side and increase the spring force on the primary side. All colors
are my chosing, they are not factory. Just in case someone is reading this and has a 200-4R.

Looks like I am going to have to take a heavy weight and do some grinding so that it is lighter
than stock, but heavier than the original CKP governor. I was hoping that I could do this with
just a spring change.



My short that was blowing fuses was caused by the heat shrink that I used was NOT compatible with
high temps and ATF. It swelled up and exposed my solder connections causing the short to ground.

I ordered some shrink tubing from Wire Care that is supposed to be up to the task.
RAYCHEMDRS - DR25 Diesel Resistant Heat Shrink - WireCare.com



If you are trouble shooting a lockup solenoid problem, then the resistance should be about
20 to 24 ohms of resistance.

If one of the connectors on the 4th gear pressure switch is not protected, they can touch each
other. Therefore I bought the white connector you see on the pressure switch below instead
of using shrink tubing this time.



Just in a few thousand miles you can see the metal slurry that the magnets will attract. I bought
the round disk Neodymium Magnets from KJ Magnetics. They are high temp, since temps can
exceed the effective range of some magnets reducing or eliminating their attractive force. I've
used these magnets in the engine valley and oil pan. The horseshoe magnets are from some old
computer hard disk drives and were free, so I had nothing to loose.

K&J Magnetics: DC4SH






Below the transmission pan is all cleaned up from all the metal slurry. If you have ever tried to
wipe metal off a magnet it is nearly impossible to get everything off. So I used some Modeling Clay
and push it into all the crevices, pulled it off and folded it over and cleaned the magnets over and
over with this process. The clay will pull the metal off the magnet.


.

the magnets RICK linked too have a max operation temp of 302F
which is higher than your oil temp should ever get even close too.



but Ill point out I switched years ago to these ceramic magnets, in oil and transmission sumps, as I feel they are superior
(just remember to use epoxy to affix them to non-ferrous surfaces as they can not be drilled or bolted)

http://www.magnet4less.com/product_...ucts_id=254&osCsid=sqm6un6lkt2hj2couakntde7e2

https://www.magnet4less.com/smco-magnets-1-in-x-1-4-in-samarium-cobalt-disc-magnet

the ceramic magnets I generally use
Maximum Working Temperature 572°F.