range time...

why is it people can,t judge distances worth $%%^^

I go to a local range and theses about 40 100 yard line position's, and each lanes got a place to set up the target frames at 25 and 50 yards also
I had mounted a new 2.5X scope on my 450 marlin rifle and bore sighted it, so I set the target up the first time at 25 yards just to be sure I was on the target, if I was I intended to move it to 50 for 2-3 shot,s and then on the next relay move it to 100 yards and sight it in at 3.5" high at 100 yards like I do with all my heavier caliber rifles.
as expected the first two shots are fairly close at the 25 yard range as are the two at 50 yards and I move the target out to 100 yards and while I'm tweaking the group on the target this guy whos been watching from the next bench walks over and asked how far that target was, out there I was shooting at........now this is clearly marked with small signs on the outer safety berm as 100 yards, so I'm just looking at him to see if hes joking, but it appears hes not so I point to the sign, that says "100 yard line" he then says hes noticed I'm having difficulty getting the group low enough to hit the 1" orange dot as all my hits are in a nice group but a couple inches above the bulls eye.....I tell him thats on purpose so the bullet will drop lower at a bit further out , and sighting in that way insures its far easier to hit game out at 200 yards or so as Id need to guess at drop less.........he assures me I,m confused as the bullet will continue to shoot flat and by hitting high at 100 yards I'm probably a foot or more above the intended target out at 200 yards.....I just smile and thank him for pointing that out....then he hits me with this "jem"....
"on those non-adjustable scopes with only a single setting , like that one your using ,your at a huge disadvantage you know....you can,t simply turn up the power to extent the distance the bullet impacts at."
now I'm starting to think one of my friends Ive not seen is having a laughing fit with a practical joke.. but Im thru sighting in so I just packed, slowly and left, but as I'm leaving this guy says I really should measure the distance to the targets because it sure looks like its a bit more than 100 yards, ......smile and wave boys..smile and wave...

Range Velocity
0 1800 -1.5
25 1719 0.93
50 1645 2.61
75 1574 3.49
100 1506 3.5
125 1441 2.55
150 1380 0.53
175 1322 -2.62
200 1269 -7.01
225 1220 -12.77
250 1175 -19.97
275 1136 -28.75
300 1101 -39.22


it seems that lately every time I visit the range theres fewer of the old geezers I grew up with and know at least by site, and more new shooters, now obviously we all learn thru experience,or thru a mentors guidance and Ive sure got lots of younger guys involved with shooting, and reloading over the years.
in years past guys actually picked up and read magazines and went out shooting, lately I seem to run into more and more ignorant guys at the ranges, now ignorance is curable but it takes time and effort and a willingness to learn.
one factor that hurting the sport is theres fewer ranges and far fewer open areas to just go out and set up targets and shoot on your own, we used to shoot at local rock pits and dumps and even the friendlier cops at the time would direct you to one ,if asked, but now theres obviously been a mass effort to limit shooting locations access.
as a result theres far less opportunity to experiment on distant targets, like a rock on a hill side 400 yards away, not much beats prior experience, with your own rifle.

Im always amazed at the guys that concentrate on the rifles bench rest group size, and in many cases the exceptionally tight group they OCCASIONALLY get.
example
my 340wby can be depended on to shoot a 3/4" 3 shot cluster off the bench rest when I do my job with its favorite hand load,most of the time,(70% or more) but Ive always considered it a 1.2" rifle because almost 95% or more of the groups fall inside that circle.
but what amazes me is that I spend about 90% or more of my time practicing from sitting , prone standing or kneeling positions, like in the field, and maintaining a 2"-3" group is from those positions from what I see from field positions,is exceptionally tight and consistent shooting.
most of the guys I know that can shoot sub 1" groups of the bench could not consistently hit a 6" paper plate shooting from a sitting position at 200 yards if their lives depended on it!
ok, a 3" 100 yard,or 6" 200 yard group size indicates your likely to place your shots at about 1.5 minutes of angle off the intended impact point out to about 300 plus yards, if your consistent,and while shooting prone using your back-pack as a rest increases accuracy its not always something you can do, but shooting from a sitting or kneeling position typically is! and in over 40 years of hunting I found that to be very useful and fully adequate.
what I don,t see is guys willing to practice to maintain that edge in the field
I can tell you that I've found shot placement ,
and the projectile you select ,
is far more critical than the info stamped on the brass case heads,.
its your physical condition, your ability to spend the time and effort,
to hunt as long and as hard as required, your persistence,
your ability to get into range and place your shots precisely that the key.
I've spent a respectable amount of time hunting deer and elk,
I've used a,
30/06,(190 grain)
270 win,(150 grain
35 whelen,(250 grain)
338 win,(225 grain)
45/70,(405 grain)
340 wby,(250 grain)
358 win (250 grain)
375 H&H,(270 grain)
and a 458 win,(405 grain)
on several hunts.
if you place your shots well,
know the games anatomy ,
and use reasonably heavy for caliber bullets...
.they all worked, and all produced lethal wounds,
and dead deer/ and elk.
you can spend a good deal of time and effort sorting out, or worrying about your rifle and ammo,
but from the results I've seen, if you just select the most accurate and largest caliber rifle,
and select,decent ammo, that your confident in, using
that you feel comfortable with, and understand the games anatomy you'll do reasonably well.
personally I think the two best are the 340 wby and the 375 H&H, but they have all worked.
running stairs frequently with a 40 lb back pack,
and practice at the local range , shooting from field positions ,
not shooting off the bench rest ,
will do you a lot more good than worrying about whats stamped on those brass cartridge cases

how often, do you gentlemen visit a local rifle/pistol range?
I try rather hard to go to a range at least once every 30-45 days ,
most months I get there at least once, sometimes twice,but its getting harder.
the issue is that finding a decent range is getting to be a P.I.T.A.,
the days of walking out too some rural area to pop a few targets, you put out,
are long gone in my area. now its perfectly legal in many rural areas to do so,
but no one in his right mind wants to shoot near homes, and every time I turn around,
theres some new housing development going up in an area we previously used.
that leave's the local ranges.
two REQUIRE you buy ALL your ammo from them before shooting,
so Ill never go to those out of principal.
ones about a 1:45 minute drive, its a nice range but most of the range personnel are so used to dealing with morons,
they hover over you and have ridiculously excessive, and very slow, carefully enforced safety rules.
(I'm certainly all for safety, and realize that the morons are a significant segment of the shooters,
but being treated indiscriminately, as one, no mater what you do or don,t do, by the range personnel is annoying)
the one local range is an indoor 25 yard pistol range, its not well lighted, its crowded and its rather expensive.
its certainly not a relaxing experience,and obviously sighting a rifle or pistol in for over 25 yards is a huge challenge.

related thread
(in theory theres a new local outdoor range,in the future)
but for over 2 years, its been " ITS going to open in the next couple months"
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-feet-on-building-public-rifle-range.13492/

Grumpy said:

how often, do you gentlemen visit a local rifle/pistol range?
I try rather hard to go to a range at least once every 30-45 days ,
most months I get there at least once, sometimes twice,but its getting harder.
the issue is that finding a decent range is getting to be a P.I.T.A.,
the days of walking out too some rural area to pop a few targets, you put out,
are long gone in my area. now its perfectly legal in many rural areas to do so,
but no one in his right mind wants to shoot near homes, and every time I turn around,
theres some new housing development going up in an area we previously used.
that leave's the local ranges.
two REQUIRE you buy ALL your ammo from them before shooting,
so Ill never go to those out of principal.
ones about a 1:45 minute drive, its a nice range but most of the range personnel are so used to dealing with morons,
they hover over you and have ridiculously excessive, and very slow, carefully enforced safety rules.
(I'm certainly all for safety, and realize that the morons are a significant segment of the shooters,
but being treated indiscriminately, as one, no mater what you do or don,t do, by the range personnel is annoying)
the one local range is an indoor 25 yard pistol range, its not well lighted, its crowded and its rather expensive.
its certainly not a relaxing experience,and obviously sighting a rifle or pistol in for over 25 yards is a huge challenge.

related thread
(in theory theres a new local outdoor range,in the future)
but for over 2 years, its been " ITS going to open in the next couple months"
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-feet-on-building-public-rifle-range.13492/

Click to expand...

What a PIA for You Grumpy.
If ever Illinois your welcome to shoot at my farm 5 acres.
Over 200 acres out back.
It may be more.
Just huge open space.

I'm almost tired of the range around here every time I go there somebodys there that knows everything there is to know about guns is the best shot on planet earth and every year shoots a 45 point buck with a pea shooter at 900 yards and dropped him on the spot

I think Ive run into that guy a few times!

I guess we all have one Grumpy this one got really mad at me one day when I picked up my brass.
he told me that he always picks up the brass and I told him to go ahead and pick it up ,
but put mine in this box because I don't give my brass away I use it he got really mad,
but still bothers me every time I go.
On a side story my buddy took me to his range and I don't think anyone takes their brass.
I spent a good 2 hours out in the grass and stones on my hands and knees picking up brass.
the next time I go there I'm taking knee pads I aint to proud to pick the brass up

I have tried to explain a ballistic curve to even so called smart people and you get a deer in the headlights look, or, they think, as stated above, they shoot like laser beams. They can't comprehend gravity and that a bullet crosses line of sight 2 times.

thats very common, you can,t realy fix stupid
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/printable-targets-and-sighting-in.4560/