selecting a good self defence handgun

one of my neighbors stopped by to show me his new toy!
I'm posting a related link here to a similar looking pistol.

https://bondarms.com/bond-arms-backup-45-initial-thoughtsreview/
BASS45410-2.jpg



Backup-300x300.jpg

now theres no doubt its a reasonably well made sturdy pistol, he is un-likely to ever wear it out.
and he purchased it used, at what he considered a great price and it came with a box of 45 acp hollow point ammo , with two cartridges missing...
(it looks to be un-fired) in 45 ACP for $400 at a local gun show.
(I suspect the two missing cartridges were all the previous owner needed to convince him or her self of the pistols versatility)
I asked him what he intended to do with it? he gave me that deer in the headlights look,
and said
"its obviously for self defensive concealed carry use"
I SUGGESTED HE THINK THAT OVER, A BIT,
now if some guy runs up with a knife at a local ATM and threatens him at 5-7 feet,
And he has the skill, and dexterity too pull it out and use it in one smooth consistent move..... well yeah!
.

now lets say your in a business and some guy walks , in ,
and starts shooting people, in that business at random,
with a typical pistol and the distance is across the room at 15- 30 feet,
do you really think your well armed well enough too go toe to toe in a life and death confrontation?
personally ID vastly prefer too have my 10mm glock or even a 4" 357 mag revolver,
in my hand if my life depended on winning that gunfire exchange.
is it better than nothing?
well its going to be a very dependable and well made,pistol,

but accurate, consistently and effective at putting an adversary down, from 15-30 feet...
with a 2.5" barrel 45 ACP,
personally ,I kind of doubt that.
deringer pistols were designed to provide an effective defensive punch at arms length distances
obviously ,we all must make our own choices but in my opinion there are better options.
 
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Evaluating your defensive weapon capability
Evaluating your weapons Terminal Ballistic Performance (TBP)

THE GREAT TRUTHS:



1. Never tug on Superman's Cape.



2. Never take a knife to a gunfight.



3. Never ever take a handgun to a rifle match.



4. General Nathan Bedford Forrests CSA quote for winning a fight, "Get there the firstest with the mostest."

The Army Surgeon General ordered a Wound Ballistic's Lab set up at the Presidio in 1981. Col. Martin Facker,MD was commander. Pigs were anesthetized (as being closest to duplicating the human body) and shot with various munitions and X rayed to determine wound trauma, bullet path, bullet integrity, penetration etc. They were then dispatched and sent to the dining for barbecues at the Presidio.

He quickly came to the conclusion that handgun rounds were worthless at producing permanent wound cavatation and most of them lacked enough penetration to get to where they would do the most good.

Fackler told me center fire rifle 6.5MM or larger would incapacitate an assailant quicker with a non lethal wound faster than a lethal wound from any handgun.

Then the disaster happened. In April 1986 in Miami Dade County Fla there was a shootout between 8 FBI Special Agents and to bank robbery suspects. Two agents were killed and five were wounded as one of the suspects was killed instantly and the other used a Mini 14 in 223.

Fackler's work was known by the FBI and there was a big conference at Quantico FBI facility Sept 15-17th 1987 to conduct a Wound Ballistics Workshop. Fackler sent me the minutes and I provided my original copy to the Assn of Firearms & Toolmarks Examiners (AFTE) who scanned it and published it on their site.

Here it is: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19X...AxZYryvVEcxVTa

Below is the first sentence of the summary of the workshop.

"Wounding - Except for hits to the central nervous system (CNS) reliable and reproducible instant incapacitation is not possible with any handgun bullet."

There was a presenation at the Fed Law Enf Tng Center I attended. First shot fired was from a S&W Mod 59 using Winchester 9MM Silvertip ammo by an FBI Agent that struck one of the bank robbers in left side of thoracic cavity as he crawled out drivers window and penetrated his heart with no "instant incapacitation" thus allowing him to initiate and sustain fire for several minutes killing two agents and wounding five more.

The bad guy ran out of ammo, crawled back into his car, cranked it and was backing up to leave when one agent ran up to the side of his car and put one into his cranial vault. If FBI had used 6.5MM or larger lives and injuries would have been reduced if not eliminated.

PER THE CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATOR EVERY LAST FBI AGENT WOUNDED BY THE 223 MINI 14 DID NOT FIRE ANOTHER SHOT FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE SHOOTOUT.



Fackler was asked by the FBI what the minimum round would require to accomplish sufficient penetration and Fackler ran the numbers and recommended 10MM but few women could handle the recoil and many guys could not and S&W came up with their 40 Cal as being close but less penetration.

From the Workshop Minutes: "Given equal penetration a bigger bullet will disrupt more tissue and hopefully cause greater bleeding. Barring a CNS hit incapacitation can only be forced by blood loss and that takes time as well as sufficient penetration to hit major blood vessels through intervening musculature, fat, clothing, arms etc." It was very clear that no handgun will produce such a wound.

Fackler basically said that it is extremely rare that a person sustaining a solid thoracic cavity wound from a high power rifle will survive. I know of no one that ever heard of such a person wounded in this manner surviving.

All the above is made more critical if one does not possess enough skill with a handgun to deliver a shot where it's needed in a hurry



Per the FBI Data on shootings I have read the vast majority of handgun shootings occur between 3 and 5 yards at night. I have never seen time/distance data on shootings with a rifle but Fackler determined the 5.56 rounds (M193/M855) lost lots energy when it passed 95 yards.

Obviously in a self defense scenario the first hit will generally determine the outcome so the idea is to develop accuracy first and then speed. US Border Patrolman Bill Jordan wrote a excellent book and he had some unique advice : "Take your time in a hurry.", "No one has ever been killed as the result of a loud noise." In other words misses don't help you, only hits count and with a handgun the miss factor is way up there. Thus threats surviving a hit from a handgun is pretty good but your missed shots will definitely lower the odds of your own survivability

Col Fackler told me that he had determined from the data he collected over the years that 75% of assailants will go down with one shot from about anything. NOT DIE, JUST COLLAPSE. The next 20% will take multiple shots and 5% will only be stopped by a round crushing or severing the spinal cord or penetration into the cranial vault with enough energy. He went on to say if they are on drugs the pain from the shots will not register in the brain and are very likely to be active/dangerous for several minutes.

I worked with a guy who shot a guy 7 times with 45 ACP dead center chest and he was still coming and he stopped him cold with 8th shot in the cranial vault. The thing you must remember is that if you shoot someone with a handgun don't be surprised if they don't react or run off.

Fackler said in the home the hands down best is a 12 ga shotgun with "Number 0 Buckshot" He went on to say the shotgun has a very limited effective range. I conducted testing with Buckshot on silhouette targets and at 25 yards the pattern will cover expand to about 16" to 20" and terminal performance is thus degraded.

The best training I have knowledge of was developed by Col Jeff Cooper USMC retd at his Gunsite Ranch Training Facility utilizing electronic timers.

Rifle: You put up one 6" paper plate at 25 yards and you stand with your rifle at the port arms ready and the timer beeps, you raise the rifle and you fire one shot as quick as you can in 1.5 seconds or less. You do this for five one shot runs. When you fire the timer hears the shot and stops and shows you elapsed time. You reset for each additional shot. If you do not fire in 1.5 seconds the shot is considered a miss. Obviously if there is no hole in the plate that is also a miss.

There is a second level, same target, same time requirement fired at 50 yards. Then the third level 10" plate, 2 seconds allowed at 100 yards.

Do a Bing search for "Art of the Rifle Snap Shot Rifle Test" That should bring up a youtube of this training.

Handgun: Put up a 6" paper plate at 7 yds. When timer beeps draw and fire one shot in 1.5 seconds or less. Most shootings occur at 3 to 5 yards at night per FBI data I have read. 10" plate at 25 yards in 2 seconds or less.

Fackler started the International Wound Ballistics Assn made up of MDs interested in TBP. Journals were published for several years, there were no ads in the Journals from any vendor. Our member fees paid for publishing them. Subscriptions were available and they have many very interesting articles. Obviously they were out of print many years ago with first issue Fall of 1992.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...3pWYVVJeGlGaFE

Copy and paste the above and you can download every issue published as they were all scanned by AFTE and you can download them all for free. If you read all of them you will gain an amazing knowledge of Wound Ballistics and evaluations. You might want to put these on a separate thumb drive.

or put a bit differently , it takes a decent amount of bullet mass and velocity combined to do enough physical damage and allow consistent depth of penetration to even approach the level of reliably anyone might consider too be dependable as a defensive weapon.
having used several handguns hunting larger game like deer and hogs I would suggest the 10mm AUTO or 357 MAG revolver with a minimum of a 4"-5" barrel length, with hotter ammo, as a good compromise between minimal useful power and easily handled recoil,
the hotter 41 mag and any 44 mag and warmer 45 colt loads are also proven hunting loads in pistols.
but most of those cartridges take a bit more consistent practice to handle effectively and most are limited to quality revolvers , thus reducing available capacity.
theres no free lunch!, as power increases so does recoil and handgun size and weight.

and as always precise shot placement and a good knowledge of anatomy is far more critical than power, but you must have the ability to hit and destroy the opponent's central nervous system or major skeletal structure or cause rapid massive blood loss to stop any assailant quickly, yet once you can provide consistent lethal, physical damage on a potential assailant(s) more power gains you little
 
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Bullet mass --equals 17 rounds at center mass at 15 feet. Will that do in a pinch for self defense? Xs 2 pistols-- 2 S/W SDVE not the best but dependable and concealable.
 
personally I've found a 10 mm works on deer and hogs,
one shot kills are common.(but rarely instant)
but the 44 mag works noticeably better,(quicker kills)
(and I consistently shoot tighter groups)

yes I'M WELL AWARE THAT MOST PEOPLE CAN,T HIT CRAP WITH A 44 MAG REVOLVER!
(Ive used 44 mag revolvers for 5 decades,
but all of them , Ive owned have 8.375" -10" barrels,
making concealed carry a major challenge, or absurd)
keep in mind these were selected for hunting,
where the need of making a 120 yard shot was a strong
possibility,
while the need for making anything over 30 yard shots,
with a defensive handgun would be rather rare in my opinion.

one reason the 9mm para, and 38 spc are so popular is that recoil is negligible,
and most people with minimal practice can shoot those reasonably accurately and consistently.
personally I don,t subscribe to the concept of smothering the target with a hail storm of bullets,
Id rather have , made a choice of a limited shot capacity and considerably more power.
but I do realize most people think a larger magazine capacity of a semi auto like a glock,
with 17 shots is the better defensive option over a 6 shot magnum revolver,
every choice is a personal compromise, and I'm fully aware higher capacity semi-autos are the popular option, and yeah, I carry a glock #20 10 mm most of the time.
for over a decade I carried a 10 shot CZ 45 acp, and would not feel in the least bit compromised if I was required to carry a 10 mm or 45 acp CZ.or 1006/4506 S&W
If I could find a reasonably priced 5" 629 44 mag,
Id carry that, in preference over the glock,
but a 10 mm glock costs about 1/2 of what a 5" 629 44 mag, revolver sells for locally.

629 S&W 44 mag
SMW_163636.jpg

5-629.jpg

S&W 1006 10mm
f2f7.jpg


EAA/CZ 45 acp

eaa_witness_steel.jpg


Glock 10 mm
glock20.gif
 
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I forgot to mention I have the others also, but for home defense and concealed carry, I'll stick to the multiple rounds as more than one may be attacking and still be trying for center mass to begin with. May have to adjust to/for changing targets.
 
do any of you gentlemen have leather working skills and tools and materials
and the ability to make something like this (pictures below) too fit a 2.25" wide belt
and with loops about 2" wide ? those loops in the pictures posted ,look to be about 1" wide

loops.jpg

beltl1.jpg

beltl2.jpg
 
wild hogs kill woman
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-wom...ragic-incident


Feral hogs attacked and killed a woman outside a southeast Texas home where she worked as a caretaker, according to authorities

hristine Rollins, 59, cared for an elderly couple at their home in the small town of Anahuac.

"Unbelievably tragic. This is a very rare incident, just what little research we have found less than six of these have been reported in the nation," Chambers County Sheriff Brian Hawthorne said.

Hawthorne said Monday the 84-year-old woman she cared for was waiting for Rollins to arrive on Sunday. The woman went outside and found the woman in the front yard between her car and the front door.

Hawthorne said Rollins had a severe head wound and several other injuries consistent with an animal bite.
The coroner in neighboring Jefferson County ruled Monday that she bled to death after an attack by feral hogs.
Texas’ KATU2 reported that the medical examiner said the cause of death was “exsanguination due to feral hog assault."

GET THE FOX NEWS APP

Anahuac is just over 40 miles east of Houston.

btw, just as a piece of very loosely related info gained over decades,
a 357 mag revolver with a 6"-8" barrel ,
loaded with 158 grain hard cast gas check bullet ammo
loaded over 14 grains of 2400 powder is very effective hog repellant in skilled hands


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101020056
 
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this was interesting, but consider the 10mm was pushing through a significantly larger cross sectional area
of that ballistic gel and delivered both decent penetration and expansion
all four cartridge choices would easily be lethal with well placed shots
and penetration could be markedly improved with different projectile choices in all four

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=303

the formula for energy at impact is mass in grains x vel x vel /450240= energy

9mm------147 grain-average vel--1090-- 388 impact ft lbs energy

357 sig---147 grain-average vel--1234--- 497 impact ft lbs energy

fn 5,7-----40 grain--average vel--1663-- 256 impact ft lbs energy

10mm-----200 grain average vel- 1098--536 impact ft lbs energy


double tap ammo
10mm--6" barrel ---155 grain average vel- 1450--749 impact ft lbs energy

357 mag revolver 8" barrel 158 grain, velocity 1500--787 impact ft lbs

btw Ive use a 10mm and a 45 acp and a 9 mm to shoot several hogs over the years
all are lethal with good hits to the games vitals, and theres a marked noticeable advantage
as far as my personal experience in use of a 10mm or a 357 mag revolver



 
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