new guy deer hunting tips?

I spent a couple hours recently checking out a couple cast bullet hand loads in several of my favorite rifles
one was a browning BLR in caliber 358 win, the load Ive used for 4 decades is 44 grains of IMR 4064 under a speer 250 grain bullet and using a federal 215 primer,
https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullets/rifle-bullets/hot-cor-rifle-bullet/2453
the guy on the next bench over had brought a 270 win caliber savage bolt action, after watching me shoot a couple decent groups of the bench I got into a seated position ,
seated on the concrete and using a sling I fired off a couple shots to be sure the rifle still held the same zero the way it would be used vs the off the bench zero.
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now a browning BLR throwing a 250 grain bullet throws those bullets out at about 2300 fps and I sighted in at 3.5" high at 100 yards,
this places the impact at 200 yards at almost dead on, and about 10" low at 300 yards,
after watching me for awhile this guy asked me where I was hunting, and I told him about one of the local wild life management areas.
Ive hunted in OREGON,COLORADO,IDAHO,FLORIDA,ALABAMA, KENTUCKY,MAINE, MASS.
and places where you have thick brush are common in all those locations,
white tail deer generally don,t spend a great deal of time wondering in open fields,
at times where you have good daylight,
they seem to prefer stream edges, timber and brush in farm field edges,
yes Mule deer will frequently trot out in sage brush ,
between aspen grooves and through canyon bottom,
and near rim rock, open areas, but even they tend to bed in oak brush and sage brush.
this guy asked me why I was HAMPERING myself with such a limited range rifle?
now Ive had this discussion a hundred times in the last 50 plus years,
and I pointed out that deer,even big deer, are not that large,
they may on average only have the shoulder height in the 36"-42" range
and in a great many areas brush, even weeds and grass reaches that height,
I ask him if hes ever been watching an area and suddenly found he saw deer feeding in fairly close like 40-60 yards? (we all have)
vegetation and terrain vary wildly, over much of the U.S.A.
I then ask him how come he had not spotted those deer when they were out at 300-500 yards...
the answers obvious if you have experience, they were not visible until they cleared the local ground cover brush,
and even if your up in a tree stand 15-20 feet above ground level which gives you a tremendous advantage,
this happens all the time here and in most areas Ive hunted.
if you have the skills to use your equipment of choice fast and accurately out to about 200 yards ,
you could spend several life times filling your freezer with venison, and still count the number of times you had a potential shot at deer ,
in many areas at ranges exceeding 250 yards on one hand with a few fingers still left.
he thought about that for a few minutes and smiled and said, you know!
youve got a point , Ive hunted for about 20 years and,
Ive only shot one deer out past about 150 yards.
look at these pictures, this is rather typical of many areas and you just won,t easily see deer much further than about 150 yards.
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https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010401268?pid=292014

just a bit of info , one of the neighbors sons (hes 18 now) went on a local farm on a hog hunt,
this past weekend..
the guy who owns the farm invited him along with his dad,
(his dad does not hunt but loves to spend time at the local range)
here in florida hogs on private property are legally hunted year round
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/reminder-on-florida-hunting-dates.15721/
he had borrowed an AR15 rifle with a 20" barrel FROM ONE OF MY FRIENDS
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WHO SUPPLIED HIM WITH A 20 ROUND MAGAZINE MODIFIED TO ONLY HOLD 4 CARTRIDGES
SO IT LEGAL TO HUNT WITH HERE IN FLORIDA

THE HAND LOADS USED BARNES TSX BULLETS OVER 25 GRAINS OF VARGET POWDER,
AND WINCHESTER SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM PRIMERS

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he shot at one hog from about 150 yards aiming right behind the front leg ,
about half way up the body..
he used the 62 grain plastic-tipped TTSX bullets pictured above
the bullet impacted a bit higher and a bit forward of where he was aiming..
hogds.jpg


he is having a bar-b-que this coming weekend as a result,
and he is fully convinced he needs a similar rifle now....btw the bullet exited
and thats pretty impressive shooting with a borrowed rifle shooting off-hand at 150 yards or so,
using iron sights.
personally I tend to use a marlin 44 mag lever action loaded with 300 grain hard cast bullets on similar hunts ,
but theres no denying the effectiveness of a properly loaded AR15
 
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mrbb said:
if deer are alerting by snorting away from you, there picking up something that is making them nervous enough to sound an alarm!

it could be as simple as the deer are actually watching you enter the woods from where ever they are sitting before you get there
or again, could be there catching your scent
you say your pretty good about your scent, but what exactly does this mean
a deer has an incredible sense of smell
if you clothing or your hands, come in contact with certain things, (like fueling up a vehicle,)
fuel on your boots or hands or clothing can stick even after being washed in a good scent free detergent!

also keep in mind some deer are just a LOT more sensitive to scents than deer in other places
I personally always took great extremes to try and beat there nose
I always showered just before heading out, using scent reducing products, (lots of baking soda too)
and then carried all my hunting gear in scent free containers, and dressed , then spray down with a scent , so called scent eliminator LOL, just before going into the woods!, and if a LONG walk in, would carry some to spray me down again, and I will stop OFTEN to NOT Break a sweat going in!
sweating is like defeating all your work in scent control IMO!

ALL my hunting gear was NEVER ever wore any where but HUNTING, it was kept separate from all other things in a separate room I dedicated to hunting clothing and gear I wanted scent free!
I know everyone cannot do this, but, I will say I seldom if ever got busted by deer, no matter what way the wind was blowing!

NOW< if deer are NOT scenting you
it could be deer are seeing you in your stand, or on the ground, as your NOT stating how your hunting, on the ground or in a stand.
Movement is a number one thing deer notice IMO after scent!
if your in a tree, and you don';t have a god stand site, you will stick out like a sore thumb, same as on the ground, and deer KNOW there area, so things different can get there attention,
add in some odd scents and or a bunch of movements, and you now have very alert deer!
next will be again entering and leaving the area
are deer WATCHING you as you do so!
can you try entering from a different location/way
do you SNEAK into your area or just plain walk in and not pay as much attention as you do< ??

hunting is a skill and like all skills, it takes practice and paying attention to get better, and a endless adaptation to changing your tactic's to be successful
as what worked ONCE might not again, and same with where you hunt, its a never ending game of learning , and trying to BEAT the species your after!
just keep trying
and if your area get a LOT of deer snorting, just it a rest and hunt else where
BUT deer snort all the time, and they WILL come back
its NOT a once they snort they move on else where deal
They spent there lives there, there NOT packing up and moving to a unknown area again
they WILL how ever change how they go into there area, be it at different hours, or in different travel routes thru it
but they DON"T flee a home turf, just due to they snorted at something, or deer would NEVER have a home range

I have killed countless deer, JUST after one deer snorted and then new one's showed up
and have had countless deer in food plots snorting at things behind the tree line and never left the food plot and deer continued to come out !
snorting isn't a done deal when hunting, but you DO want to try and find out WHY there snorting and make adjustments from there!
keep at it, you'll learn as time goes by!
Click to expand...
 
now Id be the first guy in line to point out that for the vast majority of hunters this will not be as effective as a decent carbine in your favorite caliber,
but if your willing to put the time and effort into the mandatory and required practice,
you might find still hunting with a heavier caliber revolver adds a bit to your sence of accomplishment

keep in mind both archery and revolvers kill due too having the ability of punching holes in vital organs and tissue destruction,
not due to the energy levels, an archery broad-head thrown from most bows will have less than 100 ft lbs of energy,
but it can slice through and exit an elks chest destroying vital organs as it zips through, a handgun like a 44 mag will not have even 1/2 the energy or velocity that the typical 308 win or 270 win deer rifle has,
yet it can also punch through both sides of an elks chest and exit destroying vital organs as it passes through.
its up to the hunter to know his games anatomy and have the skills developed through constant practice to use his chosen weapon effectively
IF YOU DOUBT A HANDGUN CAN BE EFFECTIVE WATCH THIS VIDEO


and yes thats a 44 mag with 300 grain bullets, not a larger caliber, as always shot placement is critical and a 44 properly loaded has plenty of power
don,t get mesmerized by claims of high velocity from custom ammo or handloads, listed on the internet, the load below has killed several elk, and a truck load of deer and hogs over decades.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...ld-c430-310-rf
Ive loaded a hard cast 300-310 grain lyman or LEE gas check bullet over 20-21 grains of H110 powder in my 44 mag for decades , (start with 19 grains and work up a 1/2 grain at a time ) it shoots clear thru most hogs and deer exiting and still going strong so be aware you don,t want to shoot a deer with a second deer directly behind the first.http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...u=000152660650
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...ld-c430-310-rf
Ive found 20 grains of h110 under this 300 grain lyman bullet (cast from 5% pure tin and 95% wheel weights)is a good combo, in my 44 revolvers, it consistently shoots clear thru deer and hogs.
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while I can tell you from experience that theres a noticeable difference in the reaction of deer and hogs that were shot in similar vital areas,with a good 357 mag hand load and a similar 44 mag revolver and hand loads BOTH are 100% lethal in the hands of a decent shot when loaded with fairly heavy for caliber hard cast bullets and a 357 mag loaded with 158-170-180 grain hard cast gas-check bullets does a decent job on game if you know anatomy and can place shots accurately, look closely at the hand load data and believe me when I say that with the proper hand loads you could effectively use a 6"-8"10" barrel 357 mag revolver to kill even ELK at ranges under 100 yards with a good hard cast bullet pushed to 1350 -1450 plus fps

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=LE&i=90327
(where the law allows the calibers use)
suggested bullet weights
357 mag= 158 grain-180 grain
41 mag= 220 grain-250 grain
44 mag= 270 grain-320 grain
45 caliber -300 grain-350 grain
480 caliber 350 grain-400 grain
50 caliber 400 grain-480 grain
don,t think a 357 mag can,t be effective, it is,
but its not in the same class as the larger magnums
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the 44 mag silhouette with the adjustable front site and 10 5/8" barrel that I use on many hunts
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YES IT REQUIRES a shoulder holster to use comfortably
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don,t get hung up on velocity just get the most accurate load

you can adjust the front site to hit dead on at 50-100-125-150 yards with some range time
 
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I was asked how you find game?
well its a learned skill, but modern technology makes it much easier,
there are no free lunches, but if your willing to invest the time ,
and do the research and use the tools that are available,
you can sure greatly increase your odds of consistently being successful!
deer need to feel fairly safe and have access to food, they don,t want to be constantly disturbed, but they learn very quickly that most hunters (preditors)
in the case of humans tend to be rather noisy and tend to travel on trails, they learn to move into cover and areas humans avoid like wet areas,
areas bordered by deep creeks and thick brush or bramble thickets, etc.
If you want to get to be effective at hunting youll need too spent a good deal of time out in the field observing,
each area has its quirks and less productive areas, and you need to identify feed, bedding and travel corridors
use an ACCURATE GPS it is you best friend, get a book on what plants local deer prefer,
call and talk to game wardens and the local biologists,
buy a good topo map of the area, buy a decent cheap digital camera and if available fairly recently taken aerial photos of the area
go home and locate a lets say 3 mile square area and divide the area into a grid of lets say 1/8th mile sections,
and label each grid square, lets say with letters a-z vertically and 1-27 horizontally
now get a note book and your GPS and any time you see anything of interest,
use the note book n and make notes like,
location grid g7 tree stand saw several does pass on nov 12 at 7am
location grid h8 several white oaks heavily browsed of acorns nov 12 at 9 am
lets say deer, a tree stand, a scrape, road access a heavily used game trail, use the note book,
use that grid and GPS to pinpoint both its location and where it is on the grid and the time of day and date!
over a few months or ideally, years you'll build a very accurate map detailing where deer were seen,
where and when they travel,and what they feed on,you'll learn the best stand locations, bedding areas and game trails, and escape routes
 
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we have all heard endless stories about 500-yard or longer range shots.
yes I think most of use have friends who are convinced they made those shots.
I had one of the guys I occasionally hunt with over, to the house, to B.S. about an up-coming hunt!
and as he arrived and parked his car out by the mail box,
I stepped out to meet him at the mail box/driveway,
he wanted to show me his new rifle,
one of the first thing he said was.. now I finally have a 500 yard elk rifle!
I live on a 5 acre lot that measures 330 x 660 ft ,
I asked him how far it was to the garage on the rear of my property to the road/mailbox we were standing next to?
he looked at the shop, and said... about 230 yards:rolleyes:
heres a picture posted below,
taken from about half that distance,
as the house is set back about 140 ft from the street,
the bushes in the back behind the shop are along a canal thats about 600 ft from the road out front as my property extends to the far bank of the canal,
the shops built on a pad thats about 500 ft from the road out front or 167 yards:D from where we were standing at the time.
this is all too typical, of why you hear about guys making 500 yard shots,
and why many guys don,t think a carbine in calibers like 358 win have a flat enough trajectory.
for decades my late hunting partner used a BLR in 358 win caliber
he would simply aim at an elks heart/lung area and shoot,
never considering the distance to the target, and he rarely missed.
the big secret is elk don,t stand out in open areas in most places, you tend to find them in aspen and conifer cover.
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and never had any issues hitting or killing elk.
I have seen many guys swear he shot elk at 300-350 yards ,
and I seriously doubt he ever shot any large game at over 220 yards

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years ago I saw a game department survey made where they asked hundreds of hunters at a western BLM check point,
to look out at 5 different colored flags placed at random but carefully measured distances and write down what each person estimated the distance too be from the check point,
they were handed a pen and a survey card, they were told NONE of the colored flags were at an even 100 yard multiple,
but that was the only info , each flag was a different, color, placed in a
different direction and at a different distance.
the survey taker pointed out each colored flag and asked them to write down their estimated range!
they tabulated the actual hunters field estimates being made on the spot, vs the carefully measure actual distances.
.
.
the results were about what Id have expected..after decades of listening to guys claim they killed deer & elk at 400 and 500 and 600 yards.......
the vast majority were very VERY bad at estimating distances correctly past about 150 yards, some estimates that were over 70% wrong were not uncommon

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ately-shoot-up-or-down-hill.15229/#post-87579

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/#post-2735
 
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for new guys this is well worth watching all the way through
 
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