327 small block / 750 quickfuel carb help.

my327

Member
Hi grumpy's

I have quick fuel 750 carb I'm been playing around with jetting this thing for about 2 months. The carb came with pri - 74 / sec - 84 jets, pump nuzzles front 31 / back 31, power valve 4.5, idle bleed jets - 70, high speed jets - 33.

Man I had stumbles off idle and 3000 rpm flat spots and then pick back up. And kinda flat when I put my foot to the floor - I have Little hesitation when running around 65 miles on the high way now - help on this.

I re-jetting down all the way 66 front to 69 back this made it real bad. So start re jetting back up 1 jet at a time. My jetting is 77/86 but seem like it could be even a little higher with the jetting "O" I change the pump nozzles 35/35 front to back and I install a washer in the front accelerator pump spring. My power valve is 2.5 high flow,

It seems to be running better but not quiet right on. I thought the carb was maybe to big but it seems to like bigger jets than what came in the carbs Is this right for a little 327 motor.

Motor specs, car is a 82 camaro
65 327 30 over motor, edelbrock air gap intake, 2" 4 hole spacer tapered, heads 210 runners valve's 2.02/1.60 chamber 54cc, aluminum heads, Pistons 30 over compression 10.5, spark plugs autolite AR3924 gap 45 are these the right plugs for my set up - help with this, roller rock arms 1.6 with stud gridles, Schneider race cam hdy durations gross intake 288 exhaust 296 at 50 230/238 lift 485/492, Gear drive, 1/2 gas line from the gas tank no return line - should I have a return hook up - help with this, Mallory ignition 6-al and coil, Distributor wysco, Timing at 12/38, rpm idle 800 vacuum 4.5 no vacuum leaks is this the right timing set up for my motor help on this, 4 speed manual with 373 rear, Tires 28x15 size.

"O" for got to ad this in there's a little black smoke in the tip of me exhaust pipe.

Any improvements you think I need to change or add would be helpful.

Thanks

Here's a pic of the motor
Picture084.jpg
 
tuning and isolating problems is best approached in a systematic , check list way,
it helps a great deal if I know what your ignition advance curve or advance timing is, what your plenum vacume is at at idle, at wide open throttle and several places along the power band
If you can post CLEAR pictures of your spark plugs ( PLEASE LABEL BY CYLINDER NUMBER )
what accelerator pump cam are you using?
please let me know what your fuel pressure reads at idle, at wide open throttle and several places along the power band
and what your exhaust back pressure reads at wide open throttle



related info

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=109

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=202

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=4683

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=635

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1442&p=5524&hilit=accelerator+pump#p5524

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1790&p=4544&hilit=accelerator+pump#p4544
 
grumpyvette said:
tuning and isolating problems is best approached in a systematic , check list way,
it helps a great deal if I know what your ignition advance curve or advance timing is, what your plenum vacume is at at idle, at wide open throttle and several places along the power band
If you can post CLEAR pictures of your spark plugs ( PLEASE LABEL BY CYLINDER NUMBER )
what accelerator pump cam are you using?
please let me know what your fuel pressure reads at idle, at wide open throttle and several places along the power band
and what your exhaust back pressure reads at wide open throttle



related info

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=109

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=202

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=4683

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=635

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1442&p=5524&hilit=accelerator+pump#p5524

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1790&p=4544&hilit=accelerator+pump#p4544


Thanks for the reply, We been having a lot of rain the past for days with the scoop on the car can't run it.

But my cams are pink in the carb, and my vacuum at idle is 4.5 off the intake, my gas pressure at idle is 5.5 some times 6, my timing dial in
at 12 / 3000 rpm 38 this what Schneider cams told me to set it at.

The rest of the info you requested I will get soon just waiting for the rain to stop.

I never had problems like this before, I have build a few motors in the pass this quickfuel carb is driving me nuts... At idle there's little black powder only inside of the tail pipes so I no it's running a little rich at idle. I'm not the best at tuning carbs but trying to learn. Had a shop that
use to tune my carbs to the motors but man now to tune it his price is $800.00 my wife is having a fit about the money I been spending.

I was thinking maybe the carb was to big at 1st, The motor did not like the stock jets 74/84 it runs much better 77/86 I thought this would be a little to much jetting for a 327 seem I could go even higher on the jetting.
 
If you read the links and sub linked info it should help a good deal , but the first change ID suggest is buying a pack of accelerator pump cams and as a first guess, Id be swapping to a BLUE accelerator pump cam and a 2.5 power valve and set the float levels before Id get into more extensive diagnosis
You generally select a power valve thats 1/2 the vacuum at idle , example if your pulling 17" at idle you select a 8.5 power valve, if your pulling 12" you select a 5.5 power valve, your running about 5" so youll want a 2.5 power valve
hly-125-25_w.jpg

Holley20Cam20chart.jpg


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-20-12/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-125-25/
holleypowervalvesq.jpg

holleyjetpack.jpg

holley2011.jpg

holley2012.jpg

If your tuning a holley carb having the 50cc accelerator pump kit and a selection of accelerator pump cams, a set of jets, squirters,and power valves in your tool box and a decent vacuum gauge, to tune with is a big help at times
This chart gives the pump shot volume in CCs for each cam in each position.

Position 1 Position 2
White 17 19.5
Blue 18 20
Red 18.5 20
Orange 19 24
Black 19 18
Green 24 30
Pink 30 37.5
Brown 36

READ THRU THESE
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1442&p=5524&hilit=accelerator+pump#p5524

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1639&p=4545&hilit=power+valve+power+valve+holley#p4545
 
Thanks for the info. I pick up 2 cam kits and will try the blue cam and I read about the air bleed jets change them helping motors that run rich at idle I will pick up a pack of them to.

Here's a pick where the spring is, at the bottom I install the washer.
Thanks for all the info I been ready this site all this morning

Picture191.jpg
 

I'm talking in general terms.
Can one assume that the YELLOW PUMP would be for an engine that has a carburetor that is too big and the PINK PUMP is for an engine that has a carburetor too small for a specific application.

So why do all the curves look so different in between those two extremes??? Some are straight lines and
other increase very quickly at first and then nothing after that. Would this relate to gear ratio and stall speed
(if it's automatic).
 

Attachments

  • HolleyAccPumpCams_Lift_vs_ThrottleRotation.jpg
    HolleyAccPumpCams_Lift_vs_ThrottleRotation.jpg
    75.4 KB · Views: 220
each engine needs a different "IDEAL" shot of fuel ,from the accelerator pump, to cover the rapid change in air flow rates,when you rapidly open the throttle bores, before the power valve and carbs jetting can react and match the increased air flow,thru the venturies, a rapid rate increase in rpms often results in a momentary lean condition without the additional fuel being added that the power valves and accelerator pump provides on a Holley 4 barrel carb, and fuel flow thats required when the car changes gears during a shift, and the displacement, carb size, intake used, cam timing and header scavenging efficiency naturally effect the required fuel volume and duration of the spray of that fuel to cover up the transition
with experience and the ability to read the spark plugs, or if youve got access use of a fuel/air ratio meter, you can learn to balance the power valves,jets and accelerator pump shot volume to produce a consistent fuel/air ratio.
fuelaratio1b.jpg



related info

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=109

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=202

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=4683

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=635

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1442&p=5524&hilit=accelerator+pump#p5524

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1790&p=4544&hilit=accelerator+pump#p4544

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1442&p=5524&hilit=accelerator+pump#p5524

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1639&p=4545&hilit=power+valve+power+valve+holley#p4545
 
grumpyvette said:
each engine needs a different "IDEAL" shot of fuel ,from the accelerator pump, to cover the rapid change in air flow rates,when you rapidly open the throttle bores, before the power valve and carbs jetting can react and match the increased air flow,thru the venturies, a rapid rate increase in rpms often results in a momentary lean condition without the additional fuel being added that the power valves and accelerator pump provides on a Holley 4 barrel carb,

I understand that gasoline weighs more than air and therefore does NOT react as quickly to the demands
of the engine..... creating momentary lean condition. And there is way too many variables to be specific,
but in general, can one make those assumptions about carb size ??? Trying to get a general understanding
of what the chart is telling me.


Sorry "My 327", I'm NOT trying to hijack your thread !
 
with experience you can make good GUESSES as to the required parts selected, but its always going to require minor mods or compensating to get it correct, as a general rule a 600-650 carb on a 350 or smaller engione and a 700cfm-750cfm on a larger sbc gets you into the ball park, but even a 750cfm vacuum secondary Holley carb on a dual plane intake is a good match to most 302-383 sbc engines with performance as the primary goal, and in almost all cases its not the carbs rated flow rate but how well you tune it that will determine to a large extent how it runs, smaller carbs tend to be a bit more responsive but can restrict peak power, larger carbs can provide more peak power potential but respond slower to rpm and load changes, you start with power valves that are rated at 1/2 the engines vacuume reading at idle,you start with a cam thats in the mid range and you use the info in the links ,its both art and science

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=109&p=6685&hilit=fuel+meter#p6685
a fuel air ratio meter,
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1853&p=4848&hilit=fuel+meter#p4848
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=383&p=2301&hilit=vacuum+gauge#p2301
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1639&p=4545&hilit=+power+valve+vacuum#p4545
timing light,
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1438&p=3191&hilit=vacuum+gauge#p3191
vacuume gauge
/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1135&p=2289&hilit=ported+vacume#p2289
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=2994&p=7857&hilit=vacuum+gauge#p7857
VenturiVacuum01.jpg


/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=579&p=743&hilit=+infrared+tuning#p743
infrared temp gun
and reading the spark plugs

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=202&p=7854&hilit=fuel+meter#p7854

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1788&p=7194&hilit=fuel+meter#p7194

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=469&p=7163&hilit=fuel+meter#p7163
to make changes as the engine and the test results tell you whats needed.
 
indycars your cool, I'm learning it's like being in again school and learning from the masters... right now the motor is running much better, I'm getting there a little black powder on the tail in side the exhaust now to work on this. I check my gas pressure through out the rpms it's 4 to 6 psi. If I jet the carb down to the 74 jets it stumbles around 3500 rpm with 77 primary jets it runs smooth. The secondary jets was 84 and with 86 jets there this very small stumble at 6000 rpm but clears up pass 6300 rpm.

Would I 650 cfm carb to small on this motor....

Is there any info in this site about keeping the motor cool my temp runs around 195 to 200 on hot days if it cool out out it will run around 180

Thanks
 
my327 said:
spark plugs autolite AR3924 gap 45 are these the right plugs for my set up - help with this,

It's obvious this is your problem !!! It will never run right with Autolite spark plugs. :)

Would I 650 cfm carb to small on this motor....

Of course it all depends on your goals, but for most people it would be considered on the small side for the
engine specs you have.

I have been out of cars for some 12 years now, so I'm trying to catch up myself. I hate to comment on
what steps you need to take, Grumpy is who you should listen. I am puzzled why you have several flat
spots thru the RPM range. Maybe its time for a Carburetor Tuning book, seems this would give you the
complete picture for attacking this problem. You need to know which system in the carb is functioning at
the RPM where the flat spots occur.

Exactly which model of Quick Fuel carburetor do you have ??? I'm thinking about getting a QF carburetor
for my engine project, so I'm interested in which one you bought.
 
I have the Q-750 kinda like it, but man it do take sometime jetting it to a motor.

With the jetting 77/86 nuzzles 35/35 and the primary accelerator spring with the washer under it. It's running much better and my best track time was 11:08 at 123 miles in the 1/4

What spark plugs you thank I should used base on my combo.

familycookoutpics107.jpg
 

Looks like you didn't take the cheap route with the Q series! For a street car, I would have gone with
the vacuum secondaries.

Can't tell if you're being serious or trying to gig me for my comment about the Autolite plugs. But in
any case, there are too many choices that don't involve Ford. :lol:

On the serious side, I really have no idea which plug to use for your situation. What does the manufacture
of your heads recommend for a starting place ???
 
Indycars said:

Looks like you didn't take the cheap route with the Q series! For a street car, I would have gone with
the vacuum secondaries.

Can't tell if you're being serious or trying to gig me for my comment about the Autolite plugs. But in
any case, there are too many choices that don't involve Ford. :lol:

On the serious side, I really have no idea which plug to use for your situation. What does the manufacture
of your heads recommend for a starting place ???

I was told use Autolite racing spark plugs AR3924 for my heads. On the chart they seem to be the very hot plugs....
I had these in the car for about 2 years.
This will be a street car from now on just can't make any real money in the 12 and 11 bracket...

sparkchart.jpg
 
I was told use Autolite racing spark plugs AR3924 for my heads. On the chart they seem to be the very hot plugs....

Forgive me if I missed it, but what kind of heads do you have ??? Who suggested the AR3924 plugs ???
For the street you would tend to run hotter plugs, than you would at the drag strip.

Where are you located, in the US or...... ???

Wife says I need to shut it down, so I'm out of here until tomorrow!
 
Indycars said:
I was told use Autolite racing spark plugs AR3924 for my heads. On the chart they seem to be the very hot plugs....

Forgive me if I missed it, but what kind of heads do you have ??? Who suggested the AR3924 plugs ???
For the street you would tend to run hotter plugs, than you would at the drag strip.

Where are you located, in the US or...... ???

Wife says I need to shut it down, so I'm out of here until tomorrow!

I'm in MD and the heads are procomp C&C machine witch I used a grinder to clean up the exhaust ports some. Procomp told me to use AR3924 plugs.


Grumpy, I used the blue cam, it works a hole lot better and I was able to to remove the washer from under the accelerator spring.
 
my327 said:
....

Grumpy, I used the blue cam, it works a hole lot better and I was able to to remove the washer from under the accelerator spring.


I thought it would,
did you also try the 2.5 power valve?
 
Back
Top