383 build for a friend.

rjs89ia

Well-Known Member
Alright guys, I'm switching gears a little from my 302 build and helping a friend/co-worker with setting up a 383 for his nova. He's just looking for a mild street engine with manageable gas mileage, no racing. He's got a few existing parts on his 350 now that he would like to use on the new engine.

Existing parts-
Cam&Lifters: Edelbrock 7102 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7102.
Heads: Dart 301-127322 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/drt-127322
Intake: Edelbrock 650/Performer

He's limited (by his wife) as to what he can get, cheaper is better for her. He's looking at a scat cast unbalanced rotating assembly and with forged pistons.
 
obviously the first question is what is the car hes installing this engine into,
and
does the drive train match the engine he intends to build and the application?
mentally step back and logically make a detailed list of the parts you'll need, after doing the math required and making a logical list of well matched components
if you want to avoid problems and have the engine last , you'll want too match the components you select to the application.

and if your building a 383 sbc, little things like selecting a rotating assembly that comes with a balanced assembly , pistons bearings rings rods, etc,and flex plate or flywheel thats already matched saves time and money, and not forgetting that a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan, the proper clearances, and the correct valve train geometry mater.
the cam hes got, will make decent power with those 200cc port 64cc dart heads, youll need about a 17-19cc dish piston ,to keep the compression reasonable for pump high octane gas
and to do that , it will require a short block with about 9.75:1-10:1 compression too run pump high octane fuel and should be geared with a 3.54:1-4.11:1 rear gear,
if its a manual trans your ok, if its an automatic a 2800 rpm-3000rpm stall speed toque converter would be a great idea
the performer intake is going to restrict flow in the rpm ranges the heads and cam are designed to operate efficiently in. both the heads and cam are designed to produce good power in the 4500 -rpm-6500-rpm range, that intakes restrictive after about 5500 rpm on a 383.
its CHEAPER BY FAR to buy a already balanced cast rotating assembly with matched components, from SCAT than to have a local machine shop do the balance work.

if your intention is to build an impressive 383 sbc,
you can run on pump octane gas,
youll want too start with,
GREAT FLOWING 195 CC-210 CC heads ,
decent compression in the 9.5:1-10.5:1 range,
an exhaust system and long tube headers,
thats designed to provide effective cylinder scavenging, and not flow,restrictive and cam thats in the 230-238 degree range at .050 lift range , and a good 7-8 quart baffled oil pan is a great basic starting point.
youll want to match it too the correct drive train gearing, if its an automatic, 3.73:1 -4.11:1 rear gears, 24-28" tire diam and a 3100 stall converter, would be a good match.
on the mild side a crane 119661, a mid range, crower 00471 and on the upper end a crane 119651 are proven cam choices in a 383

Ive never met anyone who build a decent running 383 SBC that truly expected it too actually take the time it did,
or that it would cost what it did by the time they were finished,
going into the project. (most guys learn a great deal by making mistakes,)
its faster and cheaper to read the links and make a detailed list,
of parts and machine work going into the project.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php
yeah a lot of linked info,
but reading through it, and the sub-links before diving head first into the project,
will save you weeks of wasted effort and buckets of cash wasted


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/crowers-valve-timing-charts.4299/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tbucket-engine-project-dart-shp.3814/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-to-look-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/my-1st-street-383-build.6962/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/is-this-the-right-383-combination.12164/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/building-a-s̶t̶r̶o̶n̶g̶-̶3̶5̶0̶-383-for-frank-the-tank….11173/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-train-clearances-and-problems.528/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-springs-and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...mbers-or-a-good-street-combo-your-after.5078/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/another-383-build.12786/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/compression-question-383.12861/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-for-new-383-sbc-cam-instal.13109/#post-68326

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/another-383-build.12786/page-2#post-66108

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-60236

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...383-build-that-is-now-going-to-be-a-400.7804/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-72126

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...alves-and-polishing-combustion-chambers.2630/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/port-speeds-and-area.333/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/350-383-rebuild.11115/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/first-hotrod-build.12902/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...piston-to-bore-clearance-on-your-block.14251/

camcomp.jpg


calculate horse power from intake port flow rates
http://www.wallaceracing.com/calcafhp.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/calchpaf.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/ca-calc.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/max-rpm.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/lpv.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint-rpm.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/area-under-curve.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/piston-speed-velocity.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/header_length.php


he will need decent long tube headers and a low restriction exhaust system.

a good quality cast steel 9000 series rotating assembly with hyper eutectic pistons will work, and heres a decent example but certainly not the only choice



http://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/1-92000BE/10002/-1

Duration at 050 inch Lift:234 int./244 exh.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.488 int./0.510 exh.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/port-speeds-and-area.333/
 
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Grumpy you already answered a majority of the questions I have.

His car is a 74 Nova 350ci. It is an automatic and don't quote me but I believe it's a stock th350 with a stock converter or at least he couldn't tell me any different. I get quite a few "I don't knows" when I ask questions about his current setup. He's not as fluent with this stuff which is part of the reason he asked me to help him as I'm a little more passionate about this stuff than he is. The rearend he said is a 10 bolt that he's put a posi with 373 gears in, not sure about axles. According to the year it should be an 8.5" rear and should handle what he's doing (no sticky wide tires).

Getting the balanced kit makes sense. I've read many pros and cons about it. One of my biggest questions was going to be about the compression and you've answered that.

Talking too him now he said he's got engine oil in his radiator. So a new line of problems present it self with his current engine.
 
its much more likely to be transmission fluid in his radiator, the trans fluid cooler is in the lower radiator,
and if its got a pin hole leak it can get there as trans fluid pressure is higher than radiator pressure,
if it had a coolant to engine oil leak, its much more likely he would have coolant in the engine oil, unless he has a coolant too oil cooler installed,
as coolant pressure is at times high enough to push past head gaskets,
if not properly sealed or if detonation or corrosion has happened.
check both the engine and trans for fluid contamination, if you suspect the radiator take it too a radiator shop to be cleaned and tested.
my 1985 corvette came with a factory oil cooler, that runs engine coolant through separate but contacting internal passages, this warms the oil faster getting it flowing but tends to reduce the heat engine oil can reach as it absorbs oil heat effectively transferring it too the engine coolant on the car, where its transferred too air flow through the radiator, this does a decent job if your cruising but not on a high performance application where a larger transmission fluid cooler does a significantly better job
1985oilc1.jpg

obviously this cooler mounts between the block and oil filter and runs coolant through separate passages with a common wall to the oil flow so the coolant which is generally 10F-20F cooler than the oil will absorb some of the oils heat load. (use of the extra long oil filter,
coolfins.jpg

From the Manufacturer: Cool Collar Lab Test Results:

Test Results Laboratory Test

Castrol GTX 10W30 motor oil was heated to a temperature of 220 degrees F. and pumped simultaneously through two identical oil filters. One oil filter had a Cool Collar attached, the other did not. A fan was used to direct seventy degree F. ambient air over both oil filters at a velocity of fifty miles per hour. The oil exiting the filter having the Cool Collar installed indicated a h eat removal approximately equal totwo degrees per minute. Whereas the oil temperature exiting the filter without the Cool Collar showed no change. (Typically an automotive engine passes all the oil through the filter more than once per minute).

Summary: With a constant heat source applied to the oil, the temperature dropped to 202 degrees F (from 220 degrees F.) with five minutes. This translates to a 12% temperature decrease of the heat added to ambient temperature.

Liquid Cooled Automotive Engine (Road Test)

This test was an actual highway test. The car used was a late model Corvette equipped with digital readout oil temperature and coolant temperature gauges. On a 72 degree F. day, at 65 miles per hour, the oil temperature read a constant 221 degrees F. The water temperature was 195 degrees. The corvette was then pulled off the road and a Cool Collar was installed. Testing was then resumed. Within a distance of five miles the Cool Collar was responsible for lowering and maintaining the oil temperature at 203 degrees F.

Summary: Our tests again indicated a 12% approximate reduction above ambient temperature of oil heat. On similar testes, it was found that after installation of the Cool Collar the oil temperature will typically drop near to the level of the engine coolant temperature.

Air Cooled Engine (Road Test)

The test vehicle used was a 1978, 911SC Porsche, equipped with a Carrera style oil cooler. The car was driven 65 MPH on a 85 degree day for approximately 35 miles. The car was then stopped and a I.R. thermometer was used to check the temperatures at various points along the oil lines, tank and cooler. In addition, the reading on the dash temperature gauge was noted. An average temperature of 220 degrees was logged.

Testing was then resumed, with the Cool Collar installed on the oil filter, over the same coarse and speed. At the end of the 35 miles the temperatures were then checked again using the infra-red thermometer at the same points as before. The indicated temperature readings showed an average reading of 208 degrees, a reduction of 12 degrees.
its not that difficult to remove the oil pan, replace the gasket with a new one piece synthetic one and cure that leak,
most guys can do that in a single afternoon with the car up on 4 12 ton jack stands rather easily.
be aware that the crank counter weights rotated to the correct location makes removing the oil pan a bit easier.
it might be a great opportunity to swap to a higher capacity baffled oil pan.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-15-240/overview/make/chevrolet/model/corvette
7" deep

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=11-102
6.5" deep


https://www.carid.com/moroso/oil-pa...MIraOQn-602QIVBJ7ACh2mTwt4EAQYAyABEgJZWfD_BwE


7" deep

theres lots of 8" and 8.25" deep corvette oil pans but they don,t last too long with speed bumps and raised manhole cover rims


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MIytnIx-y02QIVHrjACh35mQ-OEAQYASABEgJnZvD_BwE

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...etic-oil-cause-leaky-gaskets.2725/#post-13817

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/under-car-safety.26/page-4#post-69999

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-pan-gasket-still-small-leak.3084/#post-11971


BTW I DON,T KNOW WHO SELLS THESE BUT IVE GOT TWO ON MY CORVETTES OIL FILTERS AND THEY EASILY REDUCE OIL TEMPS 7-15 DEGREES
51794.jpg

filter11.jpg

I don,t know where they sell these, finned aluminum filter covers now ,a few years back these were $20 each and significantly longer that this picture shows,
in fact they were the length of the long oil filter ,and believe it or not the combo of the longer oil filter and finned cover dropped my oil temps an additional 5 deg F , EASY TO PROVE by simply removing and replacing the slip on finned cover several times after keeping detailed records while cruising the interstate at a steady 70 mph (not a big difference but for $20 well worth it!

and a larger capacity baffled oil pan, also helps as it exposes more surface area to cooler under the car air flow)
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...fo-and-derale-trans-cool-pans.662/#post-12989

c4vettepa.jpg


impan2.jpg


impan3.jpg

VETTECOOL1.jpg

VETTECOOL2.jpg

VETTECOOL3.JPG

VETTECOOL4.jpg
 
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its much more likely to be transmission fluid in his radiator, the trans fluid cooler is in the lower radiator,
and if its got a pin hole leak it can get there as trans fluid pressure is higher than radiator pressure,
if it had a coolant to engine oil leak, its much more likely he would have coolant in the engine oil, unless he has a coolant too oil cooler installed,
as coolant pressure is at times high enough to push past head gaskets,
if not properly sealed or if detonation or corrosion has happened.
check both the engine and trans for fluid contamination, if you suspect the radiator take it too a radiator shop to be cleaned and tested.
my 1985 corvette came with a factory oil cooler, that runs engine coolant through separate but contacting internal passages, this warms the oil faster getting it flowing but tends to reduce the heat engine oil can reach as it absorbs oil heat effectively transferring it too the engine coolant on the car, where its transferred too air flow through the radiator, this does a decent job if your cruising but not on a high performance application where a larger transmission fluid cooler does a significantly better job
1985oilc1.jpg

obviously this cooler mounts between the block and oil filter and runs coolant through separate passages with a common wall to the oil flow so the coolant which is generally 10F-20F cooler than the oil will absorb some of the oils heat load. (use of the extra long oil filter,
coolfins.jpg

BTW I DON,T KNOW WHO SELLS THESE BUT IVE GOT TWO ON MY CORVETTES OIL FILTERS AND THEY EASILY REDUCE OIL TEMPS 7-15 DEGREES
51794.jpg

filter11.jpg

I don,t know where they sell these, finned aluminum filter covers now ,a few years back these were $20 each and significantly longer that this picture shows,
in fact they were the length of the long oil filter ,and believe it or not the combo of the longer oil filter and finned cover dropped my oil temps an additional 5 deg F , EASY TO PROVE by simply removing and replacing the slip on finned cover several times after keeping detailed records while cruising the interstate at a steady 70 mph (not a big difference but for $20 well worth it!

and a larger capacity baffled oil pan, also helps as it exposes more surface area to cooler under the car air flow)
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...fo-and-derale-trans-cool-pans.662/#post-12989

c4vettepa.jpg


impan2.jpg


impan3.jpg

VETTECOOL1.jpg

VETTECOOL2.jpg

VETTECOOL3.JPG

VETTECOOL4.jpg


Last edited: 4 minutes ago

if your assembling any engine,
ideally you and your friends should have and hopefully read and did read carefully the linked info.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-and-installing-connecting-rods-pistons.247/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-and-basic-piston-ring-info-youll-need.509/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...piston-to-bore-clearance-on-your-block.14251/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/maximizing-piston-to-bore-ring-seal.3897/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/piston-to-bore-clearance.4630/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/checking-piston-to-valve-clearances.399/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-springs-and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ectly-and-get-it-to-last-cam-install-info.90/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-train-clearances-and-problems.528/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/correctly-adjusting-valves.196/
Grumpy I asked him all of those questions and he was still convinced it was engine oil. He didnt pull the oil plug lastnight as far as I know so I guess I'll find that out tonight. I told him its very unlikely to have engine oil in there unless he poured it in the radiator. If it was me the engine would have been on the stand lastnight but thats the enthusiasm I have.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally Posted by B Williams
I built this one for a guy on Corvette Forum. 535HP@6300RPM and 487TQ@5200RPM.

1996 Vortec 5.7L block.
Scat Forged 4340 3.75 crank
Scat Forged 4340 5.7 rods with 7/16 ARP
Probe Forged 2618 4.030 Piston
11.2:1 CR
AFR 195 Heads Street Port 65cc chamber
Internal balanced
Champ Oil pan
Summit balancer
TCI Flexplate
Mahle rings
All ARP hardware
Scorpion 1.6 Rockers
LS7 lifters
Mike Jones custom grind cam:
232/236@.50 .576 .576w/1.6 112LSA/108ICL

47887369d1432427353-383-afr-195-dyno-s-received_909336735796983-1-1.jpg


Im posting this as a reference, on a 383 build,
notice the cams timing/duration, is rather similar to the crower 00471.
but the 11.2:1 compression used is a bit high for use with pump octane fuel,
dropping the compression with the 72 cc combustion chamber option, rather than,using the listed,
AFR 195 Heads Street Port 65cc chamber
on the AFR heads would kill some peak power,
but make the engine far more street octane gas friendly.
 
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What Grumpy said above. You need a larger CC combustion chamber because I don't think
pistons with a large enough dish exist to lower your compression enough for your needs.
And using a really, really thick head gasket to do that is definitely not the way to do that either.
 
Thanks for the info grumpy. I've basically given up on this friends idea of building an engine. It's like the hokey pokey with him. One day he's ready to buy parts and the next he's not. Doing things all backwards and a budget so cheap that its starting to be a waste of time for me to look up stuff. Either way I know where to come and ask questions should this guy ever get serious about building his car.
 
It's because of the popularity of Junkyard LS engines.
It's getting harder to find a decent 5.3, 5.7 & 6.0.
One that is not worn out .
Piston skirts get worn.
They can not accept a .030 overbore most.

To use the Superior LS3 port heads and be reliable a Full rebuild is needed.
All want Boost.
Forged Pistons.
Forged Rods.
Stock crank LS ok to reuse for 800-1000 Hp it has been proven.
Matching Boost Cam. Good lifters.
New valve springs and hardware....
In the same situation as SBC and other engines.
Need $$$$.

LS3 Heads are Real good.
Some 23 degree heads are great.
Move up to 18 or 15 degree heads and match beat but need one off Custom headers to use them in musclecars.

Best Value IS is actually GM crate.
LSX 376 B8 & B15.
Need $6-8 k.
 
its a rather common and unfortunate fact ,
that this hobby requires,
knowledge,experience you tend to gain , along the way,
a wide selection of tools, acquired skills and,
a constant influx of cash
 
its a rather common and unfortunate fact ,
that this hobby requires,
knowledge,experience you tend to gain , along the way,
a wide selection of tools, acquired skills and,
a constant influx of cash

A Job that pays at least $25 an hour helps.
$30- $ 100 phr better Grumpy.

Pick Your Poison.

Think Pontiac 455 & Big Block Chevy best value with Superb Torque, Nice Hp & Beat on Relentless non stop for 10,000 miles.
Drive normal last 300,000 miles with proper maintenance.
 
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