383 Stroker Carb/Intake Project

[phantomjock]

Grumpy -
I have been deployed for nearly 6 months and have been "saving my nickles and dimes." Now, as I near my return, I have time (and cash) to place an order or two and get back to my project. I am at a point where I need some major help in picking a CARB/INTAKE set upfor my SBC 383 Stroker.

OBJECTIVES:
1. TORQUE - and lots of it (or as much as makes sense)
2. Incremental improvements when necessary
3. Frequent - not Daily Driver
4. Try Bracket Racing
5. Return to Autocrossing - been away 20 years!
6. Show-Looks

CONSTRAINTS:
1. "Shop Engine" -- desktop dyno sheet attached (2 bolt mains)
2. 200-4R transmission
3. 4.11 Rear End - newly built VP&B
4. Have just purchased a Distributorless Ignition system - must factor that into the mix
5. NO CARB - INTAKE MANIFOLD DECISIONS -- YET
6. Purchase price for Carb/intake set u $2000.

As an added consideration: NO EXHAUST HEADERS SELECTED --- YET

I've reviewed a lot of the references cited here on your forum and there is a HEAP of information out there. So,here's what I've learned, and correct if I am way off - or on a wrong path.
Intake manifolds -
Dual Plane Lots of Torque -- Loss of high end RPM
Single Plane More on the High RPM - loss of low end Torque
Independent/Isolated Runners Best response all around, improved torque/lowend

AND A LOT MORE NO DOUBT

Tri-power looks "Show Sharp" - but not as much value added (percentage wise) to justify the increase cost over Dual Quads. I was looking at the Barry Grant BADMAN - inline 4 barrel, but recent market forces amy have removed that as an option. But, it does represent a dollar value - about 2K as an upper limit.

I'm am not adverse to Tunnel Rams, Stealth, Air Gaps, etc. I have spent a lot (too much?) time researching old favorites - Webers. So a crossram with side drafts DCOE are a consideration - or downdrafts IDF/IDA on an appropriate manifold. I really like the thought of webers--even though they come with a tuning liability. The big question that has held me up on making this leap is what size for my SBC? And I find little info to sizing except 40 is most likely too small (without a mixing plenum of sorts) and 50s too expensive!

So on to the question - Would you help guide me towards the best $2000 combination (for the CARB INTAKE Choice)to meet the OBJECTIVES, while working within the CONSTRAINTS?

Looking forward to an interesting project!
Thanks Jim

 

[grumpyvette]

Id like to know , what car you intend on installing the engine in,?
the cars weight,?
engine compression ratio,? and
converter stall speed,?
but with the $2000 budget limitation and a hydraulic cam with only 238/348 intake/exhaust duration limiting the rpms ,a good dual plane intake with a decent 750cfm carb, like the EDELBROCK RPM AIR GAP, seems like the best compromise.in that youll have adequate flow to make decent power and fairly easy tuning,
yes you could go with a decent single plane or tunnel ram intake on that budget but with a 2 bolt block and the cam listed I don,t see the advantage.
now if its mostly looks your after???? you may want to pick up an older SY1 intake off ebay as they are no longer made
its basically a cross ram, but it used a single carb, looks impressive and should make good mid and upper rpm power in the 3500-7000rpm band if youve got at least 10:1 cpr with that cam
RELATED THREAD
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=623&hilit=crossram&start=10
SMOKEYRAM (SY1)BELOW

 

[grumpyvette]

http://cgi.ebay.com 280636173407

theres also the older constant flow injection systems, that can be purchased used in good condition for well within your budget,
but that would take careful shopping and learning a good deal about tuning constant flow injection plus more than likely new jets, injectors, pumps etc.
constant flow injections basically designed to be used on the race track, and while it can be tuned to make excellent hp,and torque and it looks impressive,the idle quality, emissions and low speed driving characteristics are NOT ideal in most cases

QUESTIONS? COMMENTS?

 

[Indycars]

Sounds like a fun project what kind of car is it going in ??? Thanks for hanging out over there ! Welcome back !

Thought I would try to help by converting your pdf file to a jpg, so everyone could view it directly in the forum.

 

[phantomjock]

Rick thanks for the Conversion - I was sort of stuck with the pdf copy. Thanks heaps!
This is for my 78 vette - I've owned since new. It is now in it's 3rd "rebirth." Each one a little further from the original!
Interior will be spartan -doors lightened - extra steel out of the front end - and bumper mass. Hope to get to fightin' weight.

Grumpy - I'll answer the questions sorry forgot those huge details:
the cars weight, Shooting for under 3000 - will struggle to get close to 2800-2900 if I can
engine compression ratio,? Currently its - I'm told 10:1
converter stall speed,? The existing is 2200 -2400 from "Bowties." Plan on moving it up - and that was a later question but understand all these must "integrate" into A SOLUTION.

I purposely avoided mentioning Nitrous - being conservative with the 2 bolt main, and Turbo is probably out with the CR.
Fuel Injection - Constant Flow - now thats a new wrinkle. I have even more research to do!

...but with the $2000 budget limitation and a hydraulic cam with only 238/348 intake/exhaust duration limiting the rpms ,a good dual plane intake with a decent 750cfm carb, like the EDELBROCK RPM AIR GAP, seems like the best compromise.in that youll have adequate flow to make decent power and fairly easy tuning,

I Suppose this might work - or am I adding too much complication:
Edelbrock X-C8 dual four cross ram, with two Holley 450's (pn #9776), 900 cfm wide open throttle - with no chokes

and, one of these slipped away last week on eBay:
Edelbrock C26 with Dual quad Edlbrock 500cfm Carbs with manual chokes.

I appreciate all the help - I'll keep doing research and keep my eyes and ears open (and my head down)

Cheers - Jim

 

[grumpyvette]

I love the look, sound and feel you get from dual quads and they preform just fine on the street, but they generally don,t provide a HUGE boost over a properly tuned single 750cfm on a 383 with the limitations the rest of the combo listed has.
summit racing sell a matched components set

read thru this thread
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=444&p=10794&hilit=+dual+quads#p10794

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-20254/

 

[phantomjock]

Re: 383 Stroker Project -- CARB DECISION MADE!

Grumpy - well - I guess I did it. I couldn't resist an opportunity to buy some Webers - so I did it. I got back home and the parts had arrived!



My questions are regarding my fuel system setup. But a bit of refresher/background first.
Engine is a 383, forecast to be 420 HP/450Tq. The feed pump on the engine is a Race Pumps 1500, 450 gph at 50 psi.



The diagram shows the plan (as of today.) I plan on putting in a dual set of fuel lines - while the body is off. I guess I should use the -AN8 for feed (HP based) and -10 as return (fuel pump based.) It seems counter intuitive - but I understand the return line should have limited or no pressure. As I understand it, that is why its larger than the feedline.

1st Question: Would "T"-ing a stub into the surge tank be a problem?
THINKING OUT LOUD: Any restriction from the surge tank would appear closed and the fuel would flow into the Main Tank. So, I think it would be OK - your thoughts?

I plan on building a surge tank rather than a sump. Seems a bit easier, and as long as the body is off I have good access to installing the surge tank.
2nd Question: Any thoughts on the surge tank vs a sump?
3rd Question: Should the Surge tank have a feed pump to fill it - or would the engine feed sufice to pull other than gravity feed?


From all my reading, it seems Webers (4x48mmIDAs on independent runner-style manifold) are fed at 2 - 4 psi. But, the only regulator I can seem to locate is a Holley 12-804 - which isn't a bypass/return style. I plan on setting the feed up as I've shown in the diagram. The Return Regulator just prior to the Low Pressure deadhead Holley. For the return regulator, I'm lookling at the Mallory 4309 as it can be dialed down to fairly low pressure too - but not as low as the Holley, but I can get the return feature. (I did my homework here on the forum!)
4th Question: Do these regulators seem like the reasonable choices? Do you have a better recommendation I could check out?
I see you've shown the Mallory several times on the forum and it looks like a well built piece of gear.
My plan is to not install any of the NOS gear (pump, extra filter, solenoids etc) but lay the feed and return lines (capped off and not tied into fuel) until later. Future "expansion" options.

 

[grumpyvette]

THIS WILL WORK
OR

PERSONALLY, THE SIMPLER THE BETTER ,ID go THIS ROUTE

http://www.jegs.com/i/Magnafuel/665/MP-6208/10002/-1

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-1792/?rtype=10

ID be more likely to put something together that looked more like this, above, together as return style fuel pressure regulators are far more dependable and consistent, theres no need for multiple fuel filters a good single fuel filter will be fine ,with a single fuel filter, and single fuel pump and two separate fuel pressure regulators all feed routing with two separate feed and return AN8 lines so you could have about 12 psi feed each fuel pressure regulator with 1/2" ID lines and run AN8 lines to the nitrous and carb fuel log and return lines

 

[Indycars]

phantomjock,

I'm curious, from your profile you are 62.....how do you get deployed at the age of 62 ???

How is the project coming ???

 

[phantomjock]

phantomjock,

I'm curious, from your profile you are 62.....how do you get deployed at the age of 62 ???

Well, it started like this, I read an email, USAF was seeking retired aviators to return to AD. Thought, "Hey that's a pretty good idea." Left the sailboat and retired life and back in Blue. As part of the 2 year deal, I was eligible for deployment. Was offered the deployment - and took it. I got 6 months in Baghdad. I must be twisted - I enjoyed it.

How is the project coming ???

SLOW is the best description. When I had 30 days left to revert to retired status, they offered an option for 2 more years! Yep - I'm twisted. [But I might to get to fly some now too! ]

The Webers are done:


New linkage, polished the insides of the manifold runners, ceramic coating on the manifold, total rebuild on each of them. The black looks like patent leather. Be running LOKAR set up on them. Now, to finish the serpentine set up on the engine, I should start a mini thread on that effort - then mount to the engine.
Then it gets mated to the 2004-R and back on the chassis. Mating the kickdown, etc will be something I'll definitely be asking a lot about when the time comes.. Have NO CLUE on that - and I'd hate to blow the tranny.

Meanwhile, have been working on a complete new IRS for the rear end - ditching the C3 rear trailing arms and building a dual wishbone setup. That has been a study effort and construction. Like re-accomplishing my masters degree.

Bodywork, cage, electrical, cooling, interior, all waiting in the garage.

Sorry didn't mean to run "off post." I'll need to run a thread or two when appropriate - or jump on one when I get closer to those details.
Thanks for asking!

Cheers - Jim

 

[grumpyvette]

outstanding looking intake !
Ive never owned one but IVE tuned several, get yourself a vacume gauge and IR heat gun, it helps and learn to read plugs, BTW those intakes like cams with a bit of duration and overlap so post all the details as you get further allong

 

[Indycars]

TWISTED can be good, especially when you do such fine work!!! That intake sure is a knock out!

Where did you get the 200-4R trans? Has it had much done to it to handle the power?

That would be cool if you get to fly again.

 

[phantomjock]

Thanks fellas. I had a lot of help on the Webers - could not have been done yet without it.

The 2004-R is one of BowTie's - Level 2 - they say, "They will handle a steady diet of around 450/500 hp and 400/450 ft/lbs. of torque." I sure HOPE SO!

Grumpy - I was wondering if there would be any gain in using an O2 sensor setup for tuning? Certainly reading the plugs - another thing for me to learn! - will get right to the cylinder/carb in this setup though. Less expensive too.

Cheers - Thanks again - Jim

 

[DorianL]

I am running a TH200-4R. The last time I dynoed I was at 600HP/TQ. (More now) And it is behind a heavy-chevy.

I am a little concerned about your acceleration leading to cavitation. The 200-4R has a weak link there. On hard accel the oil sloshes away from the pick up... you suck air... cavitation... pressure drops PRECISELY when you need it most! Weak shifts. Burned trans!

I'd get a deep pan and pick up!

Also get the biggest trans oil cooler you can get.

Bowtie is a bit unclear what they packed inside there. The level 1 looks little more than a rebuild... with the hardened stator missing! That should be in EVERY rebuild. Should have been stock. They get chewed up quick!

The rest... unclear. The wide band and hardened anchor seem to be missing - not clear what they have in there as band. Pressure regulation is unclear as well.

On the other hand, with a light corvette... I think you should be all right.

I cracked my sunshell once.

 

[phantomjock]

Slosh and cavitation - sounds like maybe something like an AccuSump Oil Accumulator might be useful?
Keeps the pressure up to a preset level and provides a reservoir. Thoughts?

(Hoping to get down to 2800 pounds...weight loss program)
Cheers - Jim

 

[DorianL]

Slosh and cavitation - sounds like maybe something like an AccuSump Oil Accumulator might be useful?
Keeps the pressure up to a preset level and provides a reservoir. Thoughts?

Ummm - whot? Sorry I have know knowledge there. All I can say is the deep pan and sump performs flawlessly.