.44 mag
- Thread starter rlphvac
- Start date
rlphvac said:
https://eagleeyeoutdoor.com/ultradot-l-t-red-dot-matte-4-moa/
http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_003.htm
the 44 special is a bit shorter than a 44 mag cartridge and loaded to significantly lower pressure levels from the factory,
similar to a 38 special vs a 357 magnum
its a decent defensive hand gun cartridge similar to a 45 acp in power but a bit less, powerful in most factory loads.
while the 44 spcl is a good defensive round choice its a bit lightly loaded for big game hunting.
Colorado requires 550 foot pounds at 50 yards. Which the 44 mag has.
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
I used a 21 grain charge of H110 under a LEE 310 grain hard cast 44 cal. bullet seated out to the lower crimp groove
19 grains of 2400 powder will also work but its a bit lower velocity at similar pressures
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...cf-430-diameter-310-grain-flat-nose-gas-check
MOLD DC C 430-310-RF
Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds
www.accuratemolds.com
Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds
www.accuratemolds.com
44 spcl figure a 200 grain bullet at about 1000fps is a common load
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/44hammerhead.html
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... er&Source=
44 mag figure a 240 grain bullet at about 1400fps is a common load, but I think youll find its better used on deer the heavier 300-310 grain bullets tend to penetrate better
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... pe=Handgun
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.a ... er&Source=
http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/defau ... ce=Alliant
http://realguns.com/loads/44remmagrifle.htm
http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/a ... ag_081005/
if you watch this linked video keep in mind hes using jacketed hollow point ammo, you can generally get significantly deeper penetration with hard cast flat nose bullets in either caliber
Ill make your search for a good hunting load in 44 mag simple!, I tried dozens of combos and the two best I found use the same LEE 310 grain cast gas check bullet
if you can find one of the only 2500 of these 44 revolvers, at a decent price, buy it
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... 0000690858
watch this video
finding a legal elk you can get into easy pistol range of,
is much harder than killing elk with a hard cast 300 grain bullet from a 10" 44 mag revolver
I used a 21 grain charge of H110 under a LEE 310 grain hard cast 44 cal. bullet seated out to the lower crimp groove
(btw 95% WW alloy and 5% pure tin)
don,t get hung up on velocity just get the most accurate load, proper shot placement is critical, elk are not bullet proof, you simply need to place the shot well, know elk anatomy and don,t shoot until your well with-in the range you can place the shot accurately from a field position for most guys thats under 75 yards.
don,t expect the elk to drop instantly, think more like archery even with great shot placement the two elk I shot ran 30-50 yards
you don,t need more power, both bullets were complete pass throughs
over either 21 grains of H110 or 11.5 grains of blue dot, the H110 is slightly faster the blue dot powders slower velocity is still useful and a bit more accurate, the difference is very minor in either case, but keep in mind theres 7000 grains in a pound of powder, so use BLUE DOT for target loads as theres 600 cartridges worth per pound while the larger charge of h110 REDUCES A POUND TO JUST OVER 1/2 THAT OR 300 SHOTS PER POUND, BOTH POWDERS COST ABOUT THE SAME
357 mag figure a 158 grain bullet at 1350 fps is a common load
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... er&Source=
357 sig figure a 124 grain bullet at about 1350fps is a common load
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... er&Source=
the 357 sig thats chambered in the glock is an auto cartridge that is a bit like a hotter 9mm (not much), not truly a 357 mag but still a slight improvement over a 9mm parabelum
just a bit of experience , both a 357 mag revolver loaded with hard cast 160 grain bullets and a 44 mag revolver loaded with hard cast 300 grain bullets will reliably shoot clear thru a deer or hogs chest at under 50 yards as Ive done both several times, a 45 acp will kill, but it doesn,t in my experience penetrate as deeply so I doubt a 44 special would do much better, in penetration, that in no way means it won,t prove fatal on people (remember son of sam killer)berkewitz, he used a 44 special revolver)
keep in mind the 357 mag is know to be a good man stopper with 125-158 grain hollow point ammo. and the 45 acp and 44 special are also well documented as effective calibers, the 44 mag is far more than required but
extremely effective with the correct loads like a 200 grain hollow point
for social agenda priority re-adjustment of violent felons
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/291871 ... box-of-100
load these over 24 grains of H110 for a good people load in a 44 mag, keep in mind hunting loads are designed for less meat damage and deep penetration, felon loads don,t require you to prevent massive blood shot meat, but over penetration might be counter productive to safety, so a faster opening bullet that dumps energy fast is preferred, after all if your going to shoot some attacker you want maximum damage and your fully legally justified or you would not be shooting the S.O.B. in the first place.
youll ocasionally run into some one who tells you a 44 mags not powerful enough to hunt with, thats total B.S.!
I went thru a very similar scene with an obviously new too revolver hunting guy, and watching a clueless sales guy trying to sell a 500 S&W to this guy who admitted he had never shot anything larger than a 357 mag, who was looking to purchase a hunting revolver for hunting hogs here in Florida.
I suggested he buy a good 44 mag with at least a 6" and preferably a 7.5" barrel.
(something Ive done for well over 43 years now with a 44 mag, revolver)
44 mag ammos a great deal less expensive and theres no hog that will shrug off a well placed hit from a properly loaded 44 revolver.
the clerk tried to say that the 500 S&W hits a lot harder (which while true) is hardly the same thing as saying the 44 mag won,t easily do the job.
these guys behind the counter at my local bass pro, are obviously are either clueless in real world experience,or get a cut on the sales total.
just pick a load pushed to over 1300 fps with at least a 240 grain bullet
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... pe=Handgun
heres the LEE 310 grain bullet I use in my 44 mag (ABOVE)
here below is a couple common 240-250 grain lyman and RCBS cast bullet designs that work reasonably well but I finf the LEE 310 more accurate and more effective on game
if you handload, 44 caliber for hunting a good cast /gas check bullet with a wide melplat that weights close to 270-300 grains, and cast from 95% wheel weights and 5% tin is what I,ve used for decades, I seldom fail to get exit wounds and rarely have game run far
both blue dot and H110 seem to provide good results in the 44 mag, blue dot gives up a bit of velocity but not much, and I seem to get better accuracy and many more cartridges per pound
knowing the games anatomy is critical to getting good results, you can,t shoot at any part with hair and expect to get fast kills, you can EXPECT deer to run a short distance when hit but hit correctly distances covered are usually short , hogs in my experience don,t travel even that far.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... pe=Handgun
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/511417 ... -gas-check
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/506726 ... -gas-check
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... pe=Handgun
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ounger-guy-how-to-hunt-with-a-revolver.14205/
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/105072 ... -flat-nose
I use far more BLUE DOT in mid power 44 mag reloads than all the other powders combined, with a 240 grain I find most revolvers seem to like around 13-14 grains and a Winchester or federal primer, with the bullet seated out as far as the cylinder and crimp easily allows , yes its very effective on deer and hogs, unlike H110 blue dot burns well at a bit lower or less than top mag level pressure, yet remains accurate
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http://stevespages.com/page8f.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf
http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.44-magnum.html
load a 310 grain lee cast 44 caliber bullet over 21 grains of H110 , size .430 , cast from 95% ww alloy and 5% tin
that has been my almost exclusively used load, in my S&W 29, for the last 15 plus years and it flat works, use a firm crimp, seat out to near max length that the cylinder allows and PRACTICE!!
(an excellent choice if your convinced you need more than a 44 mag, would be the 480 ruger or 445 DWSM)
an keep in mind, a 44 mag with 310 grain hard cast bullets will kill anything in north america including the largest bears with decent shot placement and a knowledge of the games anatomy
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/511417 ... -gas-check
rapidly expanding bullets tend to loose penetration rapidly, hard cast bullets expand slower but penetrate far deeper
a good deal of FLORIDA SWAMPS LOOK'S LIKE THESE pictures
typical palmetto thickets where 20 -40 yard shots are the normal range, and where some areas where use of a climbing tree stand offer's you a big advantage
Ive always been rather skeptical, of the idea that having
"all of the energy that is carried by that bullet is expended in the animal, instead of exiting the animal and taking energy with it."
is nearly as useful as having a larger exit or at least TWO open holes in the hide to allow blood to drain, and that the "SECRET" here is knowing the games anatomy and proper shot placement, and the near instant destruction of vital organs rather than any slight increase in total energy transfer.
the fact is that handgun bullets kill by disrupting or destroying tissue, and organ function and blood loss, more similar to archery than what a 270 win or 300 mag does with adding hydrostatic shock and a much larger temporary cavity.
destroy the heart,lungs,liver or a few major arteries death will be rapid but not instant, sever the spine, neck or destroy both shoulder or the brain and you usually drop game nearly on the spot, so I generally try for shots that penetrate thru the central front chest and either enter or exit where they are likely to break a major bone when thats possible... punch the light green area and game doesn,t go far
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... 0000690227
many guys don,t seem to realize that a 44-45 caliber hard cast bullet even even at hand gun velocities and even if its expansion on impact is rather minimal still imparts a good deal of damage as it zips thru game.
my 44 and 445 revolvers throw a 300 grain hard cast bullet at between 1200-1600fps yet punch clear thru most of the hogs and deer Ive shot and exit , the average reaction is either nearly instantly dropping or a fairly short death run.
keep in mind that while a much higher velocity cartridge like a 270 win or 300 mag may produce faster stops and more internal tissue damage the pragmatic result , death shortly after bullet impact is very similar.
Ive had about the same results using a major caliber revolver as Ive had using my 30/06 , most game tends to run a short distance, after bullet impact, some drop on the spot, but the result is all but certain, a good hit results in game on the ground within yards of bullet impact
some interesting data here. I know its not written in stone but Ive got to shake my head when the little auto rim which people say wont kill a dog sized animal is out penetrating some African hunting rifles! Goes to show what a good cast bullet and a 1000 fps will do
Linebaugh Seminar Penetration Test Eustace Texas April 27,28,&29 2007
Inches Caliber Bullet Velocity F.P.S.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/506726 ... -gas-check
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/122093 ... -gas-check
Ive got at least 15 44 caliber molds but the more I cast and hunt the more I find the 300 grain bullets are most effective, and while its nice to have the fancier molds like NEI and LBT,HOCH,SEAKO etc. the rcbs and lyman designs work remarkably well and don,t cost nearly as much and theres been dozens of rather dead deer and hogs pass thru our kitchen to verify that they work, in both my 44 mag revolvers and marlin carbine
Exit 470 Nitro Express 500gr Trophy Bonded Solid 2042 Rifle 74”+
Exit 458 Lott 500gr Barnes Solid 2250 Rifle 69”+
Exit 375 H&H 300gr Barnes Solid 2550 Rifle 69”+
56” 50 Alaskan 460gr Belt Mountain Punch 2031 Rifle
55” 44 Mag 300gr Belt Mountain Punch 1964 Rifle
54” 454 Casull 316gr Belt Mountain Punch 1600 Pistol
53” 45-70 Government 400gr Belt Mountain Punch 2088 Pistol
51” 500 Linebaugh Max 465gr Belt Mountain Punch 1326 Pistol exit side
49” 500 Linebaugh 430gr Belt Mountain Punch 1270 Pistol
49” 500 Linebaugh 468gr Montana Bullet Works LFN 1303 Pistol
48” 500 Linebaugh Max 465gr Belt Mountain Punch 1326 Pistol
44” 500 Linebaugh 500gr Grizzly LFN 1100 Pistol
44” 500 Linebaugh Max 525gr Cast Performance WFN 1237 Pistol
42” 45 Colt 335gr Cast ? ? 1270 Pistol
40” 500 Linebaugh 414gr Montana Bullet Works LFN 1085 Pistol
39” 475 Linebaugh 420gr Montana Bullet Works LFN 948 Pistol
39” 45 Colt 300gr Cast ? ? 1286 Pistol
36” 45 Colt 335gr Cast ? LWFN 1045 Pistol
32” 50 Alaskan 525gr Cast Performance WFN 2019 Rifle deformed
29” 414 Super Mag 255gr LBT LFN 1439 Pistol
28” 44 Mag 310gr Garret Defender HH 1083 Pistol
27” 45 Auto Rim 260gr BRP Keith 916 Pistol
24” 500 Linebaugh 400gr Buffalo Bore JHP 1417 Pistol
24” 475 Linebaugh 420gr Montana Bullet Works WFN 892 Pistol
24” 45 Auto Rim 250gr (cowboy load) RNFP 870 Pistol
23” 470 Nitro Express 500gr Woodleigh JSP 2264 Rifle
14” 375 H&H 260gr Nosler Accubond JPP 2781 Rifle
13” 44 Mag 250gr Winchester Black Tallon JHP 1194 Pistol
13” 445 Super Mag 270gr Speer Gold Dot JSP 1343 Pistol
12” 445 Super Mag 300gr Hornady XTP JHP 1376 Pistol
10” 45 Colt 200gr Speer (ashtray) JHP 1142 Pistol
5” 22 Long Rifle 39gr Remington Golde “Paco” FP 965 Pistol
Ive hunted with a 8 3/8" or more recently a 10 5/8" 44 mag S&W and a 10" 445 dan wesson super mag for decades, when the 500 s&w came out I was convinced for awhile I had to have one, but after trying a few dozen shots from a friends 500, S&W and found it a bit too large and heavy and I began,looking back at the results Ive had with my current revolvers, I no longer see the need, so Ill continue with what I have a 44 mag with a 10" barrel has zero problems pushing a hard cast 300 grain past 1400 fps and the 445 pushes the same bullets to near 1600fps (basically the 454 power range) both pistols shoot thru large hogs and exit.
I,d point out that your ammo selection here is critical to results, a good hard cast 300 grain has a great deal more penetration than most factory jacketed hollow point ammo
if your punching fairly large holes thru game from most angles and having the bullets exit I don,t see added power as a huge plus.
and while Id easily admit a 500 S&W or 454 can be loaded to hit harder I don,t see the need, the largest game Im ever likely to hunt is black bear or ELK and either of my current revolvers has been well proven to be more than adequate so why go the extra cost or put up with more recoil.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... 0152660650
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... pe=Handgun
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... der&Source
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf
http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.44-magnum.html
load a 310 grain lee cast 44 caliber bullet over 21 grains of H110 , size .430 , cast from 95% ww alloy and 5% tin
that has been my almost exclusively used load, in my S&W 29, for the last 15 plus years and it flat works, use a firm crimp, seat out to near max length that the cylinder allows and PRACTICE!!
(an excellent choice if your convinced you need more than a 44 mag, would be the 480 ruger or 445 DWSM)
an keep in mind, a 44 mag with 310 grain hard cast bullets will kill anything in north america including the largest bears with decent shot placement and a knowledge of the games anatomy
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/511417 ... -gas-check
rapidly expanding bullets tend to loose penetration rapidly, hard cast bullets expand slower but penetrate far deeper
a good deal of FLORIDA SWAMPS LOOK'S LIKE THESE pictures
typical palmetto thickets where 20 -40 yard shots are the normal range, and where some areas where use of a climbing tree stand offer's you a big advantage
Ive always been rather skeptical, of the idea that having
"all of the energy that is carried by that bullet is expended in the animal, instead of exiting the animal and taking energy with it."
is nearly as useful as having a larger exit or at least TWO open holes in the hide to allow blood to drain, and that the "SECRET" here is knowing the games anatomy and proper shot placement, and the near instant destruction of vital organs rather than any slight increase in total energy transfer.
the fact is that handgun bullets kill by disrupting or destroying tissue, and organ function and blood loss, more similar to archery than what a 270 win or 300 mag does with adding hydrostatic shock and a much larger temporary cavity.
destroy the heart,lungs,liver or a few major arteries death will be rapid but not instant, sever the spine, neck or destroy both shoulder or the brain and you usually drop game nearly on the spot, so I generally try for shots that penetrate thru the central front chest and either enter or exit where they are likely to break a major bone when thats possible... punch the light green area and game doesn,t go far
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... 0000690227
many guys don,t seem to realize that a 44-45 caliber hard cast bullet even even at hand gun velocities and even if its expansion on impact is rather minimal still imparts a good deal of damage as it zips thru game.
my 44 and 445 revolvers throw a 300 grain hard cast bullet at between 1200-1600fps yet punch clear thru most of the hogs and deer Ive shot and exit , the average reaction is either nearly instantly dropping or a fairly short death run.
keep in mind that while a much higher velocity cartridge like a 270 win or 300 mag may produce faster stops and more internal tissue damage the pragmatic result , death shortly after bullet impact is very similar.
Ive had about the same results using a major caliber revolver as Ive had using my 30/06 , most game tends to run a short distance, after bullet impact, some drop on the spot, but the result is all but certain, a good hit results in game on the ground within yards of bullet impact
some interesting data here. I know its not written in stone but Ive got to shake my head when the little auto rim which people say wont kill a dog sized animal is out penetrating some African hunting rifles! Goes to show what a good cast bullet and a 1000 fps will do
Linebaugh Seminar Penetration Test Eustace Texas April 27,28,&29 2007
Inches Caliber Bullet Velocity F.P.S.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/506726 ... -gas-check
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/122093 ... -gas-check
Ive got at least 15 44 caliber molds but the more I cast and hunt the more I find the 300 grain bullets are most effective, and while its nice to have the fancier molds like NEI and LBT,HOCH,SEAKO etc. the rcbs and lyman designs work remarkably well and don,t cost nearly as much and theres been dozens of rather dead deer and hogs pass thru our kitchen to verify that they work, in both my 44 mag revolvers and marlin carbine
Exit 470 Nitro Express 500gr Trophy Bonded Solid 2042 Rifle 74”+
Exit 458 Lott 500gr Barnes Solid 2250 Rifle 69”+
Exit 375 H&H 300gr Barnes Solid 2550 Rifle 69”+
56” 50 Alaskan 460gr Belt Mountain Punch 2031 Rifle
55” 44 Mag 300gr Belt Mountain Punch 1964 Rifle
54” 454 Casull 316gr Belt Mountain Punch 1600 Pistol
53” 45-70 Government 400gr Belt Mountain Punch 2088 Pistol
51” 500 Linebaugh Max 465gr Belt Mountain Punch 1326 Pistol exit side
49” 500 Linebaugh 430gr Belt Mountain Punch 1270 Pistol
49” 500 Linebaugh 468gr Montana Bullet Works LFN 1303 Pistol
48” 500 Linebaugh Max 465gr Belt Mountain Punch 1326 Pistol
44” 500 Linebaugh 500gr Grizzly LFN 1100 Pistol
44” 500 Linebaugh Max 525gr Cast Performance WFN 1237 Pistol
42” 45 Colt 335gr Cast ? ? 1270 Pistol
40” 500 Linebaugh 414gr Montana Bullet Works LFN 1085 Pistol
39” 475 Linebaugh 420gr Montana Bullet Works LFN 948 Pistol
39” 45 Colt 300gr Cast ? ? 1286 Pistol
36” 45 Colt 335gr Cast ? LWFN 1045 Pistol
32” 50 Alaskan 525gr Cast Performance WFN 2019 Rifle deformed
29” 414 Super Mag 255gr LBT LFN 1439 Pistol
28” 44 Mag 310gr Garret Defender HH 1083 Pistol
27” 45 Auto Rim 260gr BRP Keith 916 Pistol
24” 500 Linebaugh 400gr Buffalo Bore JHP 1417 Pistol
24” 475 Linebaugh 420gr Montana Bullet Works WFN 892 Pistol
24” 45 Auto Rim 250gr (cowboy load) RNFP 870 Pistol
23” 470 Nitro Express 500gr Woodleigh JSP 2264 Rifle
14” 375 H&H 260gr Nosler Accubond JPP 2781 Rifle
13” 44 Mag 250gr Winchester Black Tallon JHP 1194 Pistol
13” 445 Super Mag 270gr Speer Gold Dot JSP 1343 Pistol
12” 445 Super Mag 300gr Hornady XTP JHP 1376 Pistol
10” 45 Colt 200gr Speer (ashtray) JHP 1142 Pistol
5” 22 Long Rifle 39gr Remington Golde “Paco” FP 965 Pistol
Ive hunted with a 8 3/8" or more recently a 10 5/8" 44 mag S&W and a 10" 445 dan wesson super mag for decades, when the 500 s&w came out I was convinced for awhile I had to have one, but after trying a few dozen shots from a friends 500, S&W and found it a bit too large and heavy and I began,looking back at the results Ive had with my current revolvers, I no longer see the need, so Ill continue with what I have a 44 mag with a 10" barrel has zero problems pushing a hard cast 300 grain past 1400 fps and the 445 pushes the same bullets to near 1600fps (basically the 454 power range) both pistols shoot thru large hogs and exit.
I,d point out that your ammo selection here is critical to results, a good hard cast 300 grain has a great deal more penetration than most factory jacketed hollow point ammo
if your punching fairly large holes thru game from most angles and having the bullets exit I don,t see added power as a huge plus.
and while Id easily admit a 500 S&W or 454 can be loaded to hit harder I don,t see the need, the largest game Im ever likely to hunt is black bear or ELK and either of my current revolvers has been well proven to be more than adequate so why go the extra cost or put up with more recoil.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... 0152660650
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... pe=Handgun
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... der&Source
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quick story some of you might appreciate.
when I was about 23 years old I purchased my first 8 3/8" 44 mag S&W revolver I quickly found I needed to polish the chambers because several were a tiny bit rough, but a few seconds with a bit of jewelers rouge on a dowel and a hand held drill removed the minor burrs, and I went out and practiced a great deal slow firing double action at first but eventually building the skill and accuracy to do far better with time, so that when hunting season opened I was ready to go hunting for some of the rather large wild hogs that were tearing up much of the management area we hunt near my home.
Id purchased a 280-310 grain 44 caliber bullet mold previously and cast up hundreds of bullets to reload and we had eventually found a decent load using about 14-16 grains of 2400 powder.
about 8 am on the opening day I was sitting in a tree stand on one edge of a long power line right of way clearing that was about 300 yards across and a friend was in a similar tree stand on the other side of the clearing.
I see him stand up and take aim with his Remington 12 ga pump and fire off three quick shots then he starts yelling he thinks he just killed a huge hog.
I get down to go look carrying my 44 revolver, I get about half way across the field which is mostly waist high grass and I see the grass parting like a boat wake as several large hogs are running in my direction, directly away from his location.
I don,t know if this one hog was charging me or running from ,my friend but he was heading at a fast run directly at me, but due to the tall grass I could only see the grass moving like a boat bow wake until he got into about 20 feet, , I drew and fired, in one continuous motion, and a hog that easily weight 250 lbs dropped instantly.
a close examination showed a couple buckshot creased this hogs butt, and there was two holes from the front, one entered the head and exited the chest, a second hit between the shoulders and exited the belly.
I opened the revolver to find Id fired it twice without realizing it.
from that time On I was hooked on close range large caliber revolver hunting.
what a great many of these discussions lack is details on what projectile was used and where it impacted.
anyone who has a decent quality 357 mag or larger bore revolver, with the correct ammo and the ability to place shots precisely has the required tool to kill any bear, elk, deer or hog, based on the fact that a properly loaded hard cast bullet, of the proper design, from a revolver like a 357 mag will without any doubt punch through a bears, elk, deer or hog,skull into the brain or through the chest wall into the heart/lung area.
thats not the same thing as saying a 357 mag will instantly stop an infuriated bear full of Adrenalin,who might see your destruction as his only goal at that time.
But if you start randomly punching holes in his anatomy.
only hits to the brain,or forward central spine,from behind the head to the area between the shoulders will be likely to provide a nearly instant mobility stop, you can randomly punch an infuriated bear full of Adrenalin,as full of holes as a colander, used to strain water off spaghetti, if you don,t destroy the vitals and that bear will want to discuss your lack of proper marksmanship up close and personal, with you for well over the time he requires to bleed out.
now a larger handgun caliber like a 44 mag, 480 ruger, 454 cassul, 500 S&W, will without doubt destroy far more tissue, with each shots impact, this does increase your odds of creating significant and lethal damage , and inflicting pain that may cause the animal to retreat., but the fact still remains that the vitals must be hit to provide an instant mobility or lethal damage stop.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6584676#post6584676
I should have been a bit clearer in that post I use currently a 10" barrel revolver,now and have for at least 30 plus years now but theres nothing wrong with a 7.5" or 8 3/8" barrel if you prefer that length, and I certainly had no problems using that 8 3/8" revolver , but now prefer the longer barrel and better sites so I get a bit better velocity,with the 10" and 1400 fps is usually the 270 grain bullets but 1300fps is easy with the 300 grain, and if you seat the bullets uot to just short of the cylinder its possible in a 10" barrel 44 mag revolver with cast bullets, without a problem, I can,t remember ever having a slug not exit deer shot thru the chest from my 44 mag revolver, and only remember one huge hog that I shot in the chest that didn,t exit
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... pe=Handgun
I went thru the same thought process most guys did when the 460 S&W and 500 S&W came out, wondering if I should upgrade my hunting revolvers, and for quite some time wanted to buy a 460 S&W or 500S&W ....but after shooting both caliber revolvers that several friends purchased and after thinking about the results Ive had over the years I came to the conclusion that that power levels just not required on anything but possibly the larger bears.
I,ve shot 300 grain hard cast 44 caliber bullets length wise thru deer and hogs on several occasions launched from my 44 mag and 445 dan wesson super mag at between 1300fps-1500fps 9both have 10" barrels
short versions the 44 mag longer case is 445 dwsm
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.a ... un&Source=
SOME DAN WESSON PARTS
http://www.ewkarms.com/zen8/index.php?m ... ucts_id=93
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... le&Source=
IVE DONE A GREAT DEAL OF TESTING WITH HARD CAST 44 BULLETS,you might want to keep in mind that the 44 mag case capacity and current powders require about a 6" or LONGER barrel to get any bullet of 280-300 grains to max velocity , mostly because max cartridge length dictates the seat depth to some extent and at some point your forced to start seating bullets much deeper as bullet weight is increased and once you get into the 300 plus grain weight bullets,in most revolvers its almost mandatory to use the longer barrels to allow the full burn on the slower powders required to shove those heavier bullets to max velocity, but slower powders generally require larger powder capacity.
Ive found the 240-300 grain weights to be about the best range, if your intent on faster velocitys the 445 dwsm with a 10" barrel has a big advantage over the S&W 44 mag 10 5/8 in theory but both are lethal in skilled hands "
either revolver or cartridge shoots clear thru most deer or hogs and bullets still embed deeply in trees beyond when loaded with 300 grain hard cast, so both are potentially lethal to much larger game, and both have killed elk easily, once you can shoot through a game animals chest from most angles with a 44 caliber bullet I don,t see the advantage subjecting myself to more recoil has, yes in theory the increased power has advantages but my experience shows it precise shot placement not additional power thats required
IF YOU DOUBT A HANDGUN CAN BE EFFECTIVE WATCH THIS VIDEO
and yes thats a 44 mag with 300 grain bullets not a larger caliber, as always shot placement is critical and a 44 properly loaded has plenty of power
when I was about 23 years old I purchased my first 8 3/8" 44 mag S&W revolver I quickly found I needed to polish the chambers because several were a tiny bit rough, but a few seconds with a bit of jewelers rouge on a dowel and a hand held drill removed the minor burrs, and I went out and practiced a great deal slow firing double action at first but eventually building the skill and accuracy to do far better with time, so that when hunting season opened I was ready to go hunting for some of the rather large wild hogs that were tearing up much of the management area we hunt near my home.
Id purchased a 280-310 grain 44 caliber bullet mold previously and cast up hundreds of bullets to reload and we had eventually found a decent load using about 14-16 grains of 2400 powder.
about 8 am on the opening day I was sitting in a tree stand on one edge of a long power line right of way clearing that was about 300 yards across and a friend was in a similar tree stand on the other side of the clearing.
I see him stand up and take aim with his Remington 12 ga pump and fire off three quick shots then he starts yelling he thinks he just killed a huge hog.
I get down to go look carrying my 44 revolver, I get about half way across the field which is mostly waist high grass and I see the grass parting like a boat wake as several large hogs are running in my direction, directly away from his location.
I don,t know if this one hog was charging me or running from ,my friend but he was heading at a fast run directly at me, but due to the tall grass I could only see the grass moving like a boat bow wake until he got into about 20 feet, , I drew and fired, in one continuous motion, and a hog that easily weight 250 lbs dropped instantly.
a close examination showed a couple buckshot creased this hogs butt, and there was two holes from the front, one entered the head and exited the chest, a second hit between the shoulders and exited the belly.
I opened the revolver to find Id fired it twice without realizing it.
from that time On I was hooked on close range large caliber revolver hunting.
what a great many of these discussions lack is details on what projectile was used and where it impacted.
anyone who has a decent quality 357 mag or larger bore revolver, with the correct ammo and the ability to place shots precisely has the required tool to kill any bear, elk, deer or hog, based on the fact that a properly loaded hard cast bullet, of the proper design, from a revolver like a 357 mag will without any doubt punch through a bears, elk, deer or hog,skull into the brain or through the chest wall into the heart/lung area.
thats not the same thing as saying a 357 mag will instantly stop an infuriated bear full of Adrenalin,who might see your destruction as his only goal at that time.
But if you start randomly punching holes in his anatomy.
only hits to the brain,or forward central spine,from behind the head to the area between the shoulders will be likely to provide a nearly instant mobility stop, you can randomly punch an infuriated bear full of Adrenalin,as full of holes as a colander, used to strain water off spaghetti, if you don,t destroy the vitals and that bear will want to discuss your lack of proper marksmanship up close and personal, with you for well over the time he requires to bleed out.
now a larger handgun caliber like a 44 mag, 480 ruger, 454 cassul, 500 S&W, will without doubt destroy far more tissue, with each shots impact, this does increase your odds of creating significant and lethal damage , and inflicting pain that may cause the animal to retreat., but the fact still remains that the vitals must be hit to provide an instant mobility or lethal damage stop.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6584676#post6584676
I should have been a bit clearer in that post I use currently a 10" barrel revolver,now and have for at least 30 plus years now but theres nothing wrong with a 7.5" or 8 3/8" barrel if you prefer that length, and I certainly had no problems using that 8 3/8" revolver , but now prefer the longer barrel and better sites so I get a bit better velocity,with the 10" and 1400 fps is usually the 270 grain bullets but 1300fps is easy with the 300 grain, and if you seat the bullets uot to just short of the cylinder its possible in a 10" barrel 44 mag revolver with cast bullets, without a problem, I can,t remember ever having a slug not exit deer shot thru the chest from my 44 mag revolver, and only remember one huge hog that I shot in the chest that didn,t exit
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... pe=Handgun
I went thru the same thought process most guys did when the 460 S&W and 500 S&W came out, wondering if I should upgrade my hunting revolvers, and for quite some time wanted to buy a 460 S&W or 500S&W ....but after shooting both caliber revolvers that several friends purchased and after thinking about the results Ive had over the years I came to the conclusion that that power levels just not required on anything but possibly the larger bears.
I,ve shot 300 grain hard cast 44 caliber bullets length wise thru deer and hogs on several occasions launched from my 44 mag and 445 dan wesson super mag at between 1300fps-1500fps 9both have 10" barrels
short versions the 44 mag longer case is 445 dwsm
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.a ... un&Source=
SOME DAN WESSON PARTS
http://www.ewkarms.com/zen8/index.php?m ... ucts_id=93
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... le&Source=
IVE DONE A GREAT DEAL OF TESTING WITH HARD CAST 44 BULLETS,you might want to keep in mind that the 44 mag case capacity and current powders require about a 6" or LONGER barrel to get any bullet of 280-300 grains to max velocity , mostly because max cartridge length dictates the seat depth to some extent and at some point your forced to start seating bullets much deeper as bullet weight is increased and once you get into the 300 plus grain weight bullets,in most revolvers its almost mandatory to use the longer barrels to allow the full burn on the slower powders required to shove those heavier bullets to max velocity, but slower powders generally require larger powder capacity.
Ive found the 240-300 grain weights to be about the best range, if your intent on faster velocitys the 445 dwsm with a 10" barrel has a big advantage over the S&W 44 mag 10 5/8 in theory but both are lethal in skilled hands "
either revolver or cartridge shoots clear thru most deer or hogs and bullets still embed deeply in trees beyond when loaded with 300 grain hard cast, so both are potentially lethal to much larger game, and both have killed elk easily, once you can shoot through a game animals chest from most angles with a 44 caliber bullet I don,t see the advantage subjecting myself to more recoil has, yes in theory the increased power has advantages but my experience shows it precise shot placement not additional power thats required
IF YOU DOUBT A HANDGUN CAN BE EFFECTIVE WATCH THIS VIDEO
and yes thats a 44 mag with 300 grain bullets not a larger caliber, as always shot placement is critical and a 44 properly loaded has plenty of power
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shooting plywood while entertaining , it has little in relation to what the bullet from a 44 mag will do on live game!
a correctly cast bullet has a great deal less friction than a similar weight jacketed bullet , so you can and frequently will get 100fps-150 fps faster velocity out of a properly sized and lubed bullet from a 44 mag than a similar weight bullet in a jacketed design.
you can get a very effective hunting load using the best load Ive found and used for decades, a LEE 310 grain cast bullet over 21 grains of H110 powder.
cast from 95% wheel weights and 5% TIN, sized .430 seated out to just short of cylinder length.
on paper a 30/30 lever action rifle has more energy than a 44 mag, but in the field, the heavier and slower 44 mag bullet usually out penetrates the faster 30/30
Now I usually get asked about barrel length,and why i prefer the longer barrels, I think a great deal of the perceived accuracy or lack of accuracy regarding barrel length is the result of the person operating the revolvers eye sight limitations I certainly find my 8 3/8" and 10" S&W revolvers far easier to maintain an accurate sight picture with, and there's really no debate that the longer barrel has the potential to increase the projectile velocity.
anyone with an accurate chronograph can show you that velocities tend to increase in direct relation to barrel length in any of the magnum revolver calibers (357 mag-500 S&W ) using bullet weights that are suitable for hunting larger game, and theres a very strong relationship that can be demonstrated, between the longer distance between the front and rear sight locations and most peoples ability to accurately place shots at ranges exceeding 50 yards
now obviously no handgun has the potential power of a big bore rifle, but that does not mean its less lethal, if used in skilled hands with the correct ammo, when used correctly by a shooter who understands a hand guns limitations
the larger bore magnum revolvers have amazing penetration characteristics with hard cast gas check projectiles of the correct weight to bore ratios.
now I have zero issue with anyone who can use a shorter barrel length and a 4"-6" is certainly far easier to transport in a vehicle in some holster designs, but at least with my eye site the shorter barrels don,t provide the required clear sight picture to get proper shot placement out at 70-120 yards
http://stevespages.com/429p_3_300.html
http://stevespages.com/page8f44magnum.html
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... 0000690227
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44mag.htm
http://www.howtomakeonline.org/0KQbkMon ... agnum.html
http://handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.pen ... .tests.asp
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44OverWeight.htm
hogs can be a real P.I.T.A. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...cf-430-diameter-310-grain-flat-nose-gas-check
MOLD DC C 430-310-RF
sized .430 and loaded over 21 grains of h110 does a great job
yeah a 357 mag works reasonably well if properly loaded.(assuming your a decent shot of course!)
http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html
H110 powder and a gas check hard cast bullet like this works in a 357 mag just fine if you can shoot accurately
12-13 grains of H110 , or 296 powder generally works under the NEI hard cast bullet linked above
use 95% WW allow and 5% pure tin
https://outdoorever.com/where-to-shoot-a-hog/
a correctly cast bullet has a great deal less friction than a similar weight jacketed bullet , so you can and frequently will get 100fps-150 fps faster velocity out of a properly sized and lubed bullet from a 44 mag than a similar weight bullet in a jacketed design.
you can get a very effective hunting load using the best load Ive found and used for decades, a LEE 310 grain cast bullet over 21 grains of H110 powder.
cast from 95% wheel weights and 5% TIN, sized .430 seated out to just short of cylinder length.
on paper a 30/30 lever action rifle has more energy than a 44 mag, but in the field, the heavier and slower 44 mag bullet usually out penetrates the faster 30/30
Now I usually get asked about barrel length,and why i prefer the longer barrels, I think a great deal of the perceived accuracy or lack of accuracy regarding barrel length is the result of the person operating the revolvers eye sight limitations I certainly find my 8 3/8" and 10" S&W revolvers far easier to maintain an accurate sight picture with, and there's really no debate that the longer barrel has the potential to increase the projectile velocity.
anyone with an accurate chronograph can show you that velocities tend to increase in direct relation to barrel length in any of the magnum revolver calibers (357 mag-500 S&W ) using bullet weights that are suitable for hunting larger game, and theres a very strong relationship that can be demonstrated, between the longer distance between the front and rear sight locations and most peoples ability to accurately place shots at ranges exceeding 50 yards
the larger bore magnum revolvers have amazing penetration characteristics with hard cast gas check projectiles of the correct weight to bore ratios.
now I have zero issue with anyone who can use a shorter barrel length and a 4"-6" is certainly far easier to transport in a vehicle in some holster designs, but at least with my eye site the shorter barrels don,t provide the required clear sight picture to get proper shot placement out at 70-120 yards
http://stevespages.com/429p_3_300.html
http://stevespages.com/page8f44magnum.html
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... 0000690227
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44mag.htm
http://www.howtomakeonline.org/0KQbkMon ... agnum.html
http://handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.pen ... .tests.asp
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44OverWeight.htm
hogs can be a real P.I.T.A. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...cf-430-diameter-310-grain-flat-nose-gas-check
MOLD DC C 430-310-RF
sized .430 and loaded over 21 grains of h110 does a great job
yeah a 357 mag works reasonably well if properly loaded.(assuming your a decent shot of course!)
H110 powder and a gas check hard cast bullet like this works in a 357 mag just fine if you can shoot accurately
12-13 grains of H110 , or 296 powder generally works under the NEI hard cast bullet linked above
use 95% WW allow and 5% pure tin
https://outdoorever.com/where-to-shoot-a-hog/
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did you read this one dorianL ?
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/when-your-good-or-lucky.8708/#post-30675
OR THIS ONE
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=1949&p=5179&hilit=bounced#p5179
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/when-your-good-or-lucky.8708/#post-30675
OR THIS ONE
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=1949&p=5179&hilit=bounced#p5179
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LMBO!!!!! on the EXPLODING BIRD!!!!
Something similar happened a few years back that I kinda regret.
There was a cap gun revolver that my mom kept by the door to scare stray cats away from our backyard.
One day a neighbor kid -6 maybe- comes by, spots the revolver on the shelf and, fascinated, asks me if its real…
I don't say a word, I pick it up, open the back door, spot a squirrel (very rare in those parts) in a tree and shoot at it.
To my surprise, the animal stretches out, flips over, takes a nose dive and parachutes down the tree with its tail. (You can't see where it fell to scamper off…)
I laugh my nuts off… It really looked like it was shot out of the tree.
I turn around and see this poor, bug-eyed, stunned kid stone cold silent. He clearly though I shot the squirrel out of the tree.
At his age, I had a VERY tough time explaining (between suppressed laughs) that the squirrel was all right :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen:
Something similar happened a few years back that I kinda regret.
There was a cap gun revolver that my mom kept by the door to scare stray cats away from our backyard.
One day a neighbor kid -6 maybe- comes by, spots the revolver on the shelf and, fascinated, asks me if its real…
I don't say a word, I pick it up, open the back door, spot a squirrel (very rare in those parts) in a tree and shoot at it.
To my surprise, the animal stretches out, flips over, takes a nose dive and parachutes down the tree with its tail. (You can't see where it fell to scamper off…)
I laugh my nuts off… It really looked like it was shot out of the tree.
I turn around and see this poor, bug-eyed, stunned kid stone cold silent. He clearly though I shot the squirrel out of the tree.
At his age, I had a VERY tough time explaining (between suppressed laughs) that the squirrel was all right :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen:
theres no question that a 500 mag hits almost twice as hard and delivers massive impact energy,
one has to respect that, and you can,t deny or ignore the physics.
if your confronting something at longer range or an animal that can be violent, theres zero question the 500 mag has serious advantages ,
if the person using the handgun can use it accurately with its weight and significant recoil.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/?Caliber=500+SqqqW+Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
I doubt anyone's questioning that or would try to pretend its not a great deal more powerful than the 44 mag.
I'm simply pointing out that for almost 5 decades I've rarely had a bullet from any of my 44 mag or 445 DWSM revolvers,
fail to exit a deer or hog, I've shot regardless of the range or impact point
my 44 mag revolver is the longer barrel version
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44%20Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
Ive also used and own a 10" dan wesson 445 super mag, this is a serious step up and very accurate,
but both the 44 mag and 445 mag are very lethal and both leave exit wounds
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445%20Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
that being stated , once you can with your revolver and cartridge of choice,
consistently punch through the intended game at any reasonable range and angle and have consistent bullet exits.
like can be done with a hard cast 300-310 grain, 44 mag on deer and most hogs I don,t see having more power as a big advantage.
now if you step up to Elk, the 445 DWSM has a noticeable range advantage as you gained about 300 fps with the identical bullets.
if I was contemplating going up against something like lion, or large bear, than the S&W 460 or S&W 500 mag, if the correct projectile is used,
is simply a better choice without ANY question
heres a rather interesting video, where a guy filmed his hunts using a ruger 44 mag handgun with 300 grain bullets
it certainly seems to work rather consistently, and while a 500 S&W surely hits harder ,and has twice the power,
I doubt its twice as effective, as with most hunts knowing your games anatomy and being a good consistent shot maters more than power alone
one has to respect that, and you can,t deny or ignore the physics.
if your confronting something at longer range or an animal that can be violent, theres zero question the 500 mag has serious advantages ,
if the person using the handgun can use it accurately with its weight and significant recoil.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/?Caliber=500+SqqqW+Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
I doubt anyone's questioning that or would try to pretend its not a great deal more powerful than the 44 mag.
I'm simply pointing out that for almost 5 decades I've rarely had a bullet from any of my 44 mag or 445 DWSM revolvers,
fail to exit a deer or hog, I've shot regardless of the range or impact point
my 44 mag revolver is the longer barrel version
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44%20Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
Ive also used and own a 10" dan wesson 445 super mag, this is a serious step up and very accurate,
but both the 44 mag and 445 mag are very lethal and both leave exit wounds
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445%20Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
that being stated , once you can with your revolver and cartridge of choice,
consistently punch through the intended game at any reasonable range and angle and have consistent bullet exits.
like can be done with a hard cast 300-310 grain, 44 mag on deer and most hogs I don,t see having more power as a big advantage.
now if you step up to Elk, the 445 DWSM has a noticeable range advantage as you gained about 300 fps with the identical bullets.
if I was contemplating going up against something like lion, or large bear, than the S&W 460 or S&W 500 mag, if the correct projectile is used,
is simply a better choice without ANY question
heres a rather interesting video, where a guy filmed his hunts using a ruger 44 mag handgun with 300 grain bullets
it certainly seems to work rather consistently, and while a 500 S&W surely hits harder ,and has twice the power,
I doubt its twice as effective, as with most hunts knowing your games anatomy and being a good consistent shot maters more than power alone
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I spent a few hours at a local indoor handgun range last weekend, I was there basically to practice with my concealed carry pistol,
but I brought several handguns , 25 yard 4"-6" groups shot fairly rapid fire with all of them was possible even the 10" 44 mag,
thats certainly adequate, but there was a difference, if I took my time aiming the big revolver, it was far and away the more accurate hand gun.
I had to wonder how several of the participants, at the range would fair in a life or death confrontation ,
or if they were to go hunting with the handguns they were practicing with.
you can certainly kill hogs and deer with a 45 acp or 10 mm or 357 mag revolver.
now admittedly, you seldom hunt with the same pistol or revolver you might carry for conceal carry use,
but there were a good many guys that seemed incapable of punching a hole anywhere in a full body silhouette , at 5-7 yards.
hunting would require a significantly longer range but would not generally require ease of concealment.
do any of you gentlemen hunt with your concealed carry pistol?
Ive used most of my handguns on hunts just to see how they worked on larger game like hogs and deer.
now given a choice I don,t think most of us would hunt with a concealed carry pistol/revolver the expected ranges and performance required obviously are vastly different.
but, I think most would agree , if your carrying concealed your life might depend on both hitting the target, fluid & flawless access, rapid and dependable operation,
and the projectile impact having a pronounced and rapid effect on your potential antagonist.
I,ve used a 686 S&W, (357 mag)
a 1006 S&W (10 mm)
a glock 20 ,(10 mm)
and a EAA whitness (45 acp)
yes Id have no problem carrying any of those for personal defense use.
in fact Ive carried all of those over the years.( and hunted with all of them)
and yes a longer barrel length, 44 mag has proven the superior choice for hunting.
but I brought several handguns , 25 yard 4"-6" groups shot fairly rapid fire with all of them was possible even the 10" 44 mag,
thats certainly adequate, but there was a difference, if I took my time aiming the big revolver, it was far and away the more accurate hand gun.
I had to wonder how several of the participants, at the range would fair in a life or death confrontation ,
or if they were to go hunting with the handguns they were practicing with.
you can certainly kill hogs and deer with a 45 acp or 10 mm or 357 mag revolver.
now admittedly, you seldom hunt with the same pistol or revolver you might carry for conceal carry use,
but there were a good many guys that seemed incapable of punching a hole anywhere in a full body silhouette , at 5-7 yards.
hunting would require a significantly longer range but would not generally require ease of concealment.
do any of you gentlemen hunt with your concealed carry pistol?
Ive used most of my handguns on hunts just to see how they worked on larger game like hogs and deer.
now given a choice I don,t think most of us would hunt with a concealed carry pistol/revolver the expected ranges and performance required obviously are vastly different.
but, I think most would agree , if your carrying concealed your life might depend on both hitting the target, fluid & flawless access, rapid and dependable operation,
and the projectile impact having a pronounced and rapid effect on your potential antagonist.
I,ve used a 686 S&W, (357 mag)
a 1006 S&W (10 mm)
a glock 20 ,(10 mm)
and a EAA whitness (45 acp)
yes Id have no problem carrying any of those for personal defense use.
in fact Ive carried all of those over the years.( and hunted with all of them)
and yes a longer barrel length, 44 mag has proven the superior choice for hunting.
a couple of the guys I handgun hunt with and reload for,
having a rather wide variety of cartridges and handguns,
many of those same guys seem to think you need the newest or most powerful pistol available,
thats simply not true,
even back in the early 1960s I was effectively killing deer with a ruger single action 44 mag,
the main difference back then , was I had to be a good deal closer to effectively and consistently place a shot in the vitals accurately (think archery or 40 yards or less)
as I gained skill and experience, my personal effective range increased to about 120 max yards using iron sights to still feel confident with iron sights,
but the hand gun and cartridge had all the power required.
back then the 44 mag ruger cost me about $145 new the S&W 29 cost almost $380 back then,
back when I started a ruger single action 44 mag revolver was ....
about the most common,
yeah some guys could afford the much more expensive and harder to find rather exotic at the time S&W mod 29 and 629
and later in the mid 1980s the DAN WESSON SUPER MAG REVOLVERS
and now theres a much broader selection, in revolvers and cartridges, but I have to point out that even back in the mid 1960s-through the 1980s we were regularly very effectively killing deer with hand loaded 240-300 grain cast gas check bullets in 44 mag revolvers and in fact Ive even used a model 27 8 3/8" 357 mag with 158-175 grain hard cast gas check bullets on many hunts with zero problems
now a 357 may not hit as hard as a 44 mag when both are properly loaded but in the hands of an experienced and accurate shot both work well.
yes you can buy a 454, 460, or 500 mag, but even the 44 mag has more than enough power to get the job done, so I don,t see much advantage in larger more powerful revolvers on deer sized game.
btw never assume you missed a shot, its common for hard cast bullets to zip through and game to run a short distance even with great shot placement, (generally with a good blood trail)
http://www.lasc.us/RossLoadingthe44magnum.htm
https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/ammunition_44mag_081005/138925
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010207991?pid=511417
this bullet mold and h110 powder are a potent combo for hunting with a 44 caliber revolver
btw if your not great with a handgun...one of the most popular carbines around here is the marlin 44 mag 1894
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1894/model-1894-44-magnumspecial
I got asked what pistol Id suggest as a defensive tool,
if I was worried about being charged by a bear or hog?
a logical balance between impact energy , on target, consistent and repeatable field accuracy at reasonable ranges,
and rapidity of fire must be found.
(this will vary due to the users skill and experience, and the handgun selected)
there's a lot of good advice in the previously posted info, I just want to say I have dressed out plenty of deer, elk and hogs shot with handguns
and I'm a firm believer in using a reasonably heavy for caliber bullet, as the lighter weight jacketed bullets while lethal expand more rapidly and don,t always penetrate well
and at least in my experience Id prefer a least 44 mag with a hard cast 310 grain lee bullet
loaded over 21 grains of H110 ,As I've shot completely through an elks chest using my 44 revolver and that load,
at about 60 yards.
and would certainly not feel a bit more power was a disadvantage,
as long as you could hit the target repeatedly and instinctively.
but added power at the expense of rapid shot placement accuracy is not the route to take,
realistically you're unlikely to get off more than at most a couple shots , at best,
on a charging bear at shorter ranges so they damn well better be effective,
and you had better be able to ACCURATELY place several rapid repeated shots at under 50 ft ranges.
so a 10mm GLOCK or a 357 mag would be preferable to something larger if it cost you accuracy or using something more powerful slowed your rate of fire noticeably
heres a video on a guy using a 44 mag ruger pistol supposedly handloaded loaded with 300 grain 44 caliber hornady bullets
having a rather wide variety of cartridges and handguns,
many of those same guys seem to think you need the newest or most powerful pistol available,
thats simply not true,
even back in the early 1960s I was effectively killing deer with a ruger single action 44 mag,
the main difference back then , was I had to be a good deal closer to effectively and consistently place a shot in the vitals accurately (think archery or 40 yards or less)
as I gained skill and experience, my personal effective range increased to about 120 max yards using iron sights to still feel confident with iron sights,
but the hand gun and cartridge had all the power required.
back then the 44 mag ruger cost me about $145 new the S&W 29 cost almost $380 back then,
back when I started a ruger single action 44 mag revolver was ....
yeah some guys could afford the much more expensive and harder to find rather exotic at the time S&W mod 29 and 629
and later in the mid 1980s the DAN WESSON SUPER MAG REVOLVERS
and now theres a much broader selection, in revolvers and cartridges, but I have to point out that even back in the mid 1960s-through the 1980s we were regularly very effectively killing deer with hand loaded 240-300 grain cast gas check bullets in 44 mag revolvers and in fact Ive even used a model 27 8 3/8" 357 mag with 158-175 grain hard cast gas check bullets on many hunts with zero problems
now a 357 may not hit as hard as a 44 mag when both are properly loaded but in the hands of an experienced and accurate shot both work well.
yes you can buy a 454, 460, or 500 mag, but even the 44 mag has more than enough power to get the job done, so I don,t see much advantage in larger more powerful revolvers on deer sized game.
btw never assume you missed a shot, its common for hard cast bullets to zip through and game to run a short distance even with great shot placement, (generally with a good blood trail)
http://www.lasc.us/RossLoadingthe44magnum.htm
https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/ammunition_44mag_081005/138925
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010207991?pid=511417
this bullet mold and h110 powder are a potent combo for hunting with a 44 caliber revolver
btw if your not great with a handgun...one of the most popular carbines around here is the marlin 44 mag 1894
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1894/model-1894-44-magnumspecial
I got asked what pistol Id suggest as a defensive tool,
if I was worried about being charged by a bear or hog?
a logical balance between impact energy , on target, consistent and repeatable field accuracy at reasonable ranges,
and rapidity of fire must be found.
(this will vary due to the users skill and experience, and the handgun selected)
there's a lot of good advice in the previously posted info, I just want to say I have dressed out plenty of deer, elk and hogs shot with handguns
and I'm a firm believer in using a reasonably heavy for caliber bullet, as the lighter weight jacketed bullets while lethal expand more rapidly and don,t always penetrate well
and at least in my experience Id prefer a least 44 mag with a hard cast 310 grain lee bullet
loaded over 21 grains of H110 ,As I've shot completely through an elks chest using my 44 revolver and that load,
at about 60 yards.
and would certainly not feel a bit more power was a disadvantage,
as long as you could hit the target repeatedly and instinctively.
but added power at the expense of rapid shot placement accuracy is not the route to take,
realistically you're unlikely to get off more than at most a couple shots , at best,
on a charging bear at shorter ranges so they damn well better be effective,
and you had better be able to ACCURATELY place several rapid repeated shots at under 50 ft ranges.
so a 10mm GLOCK or a 357 mag would be preferable to something larger if it cost you accuracy or using something more powerful slowed your rate of fire noticeably
heres a video on a guy using a 44 mag ruger pistol supposedly handloaded loaded with 300 grain 44 caliber hornady bullets
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obviously , we did not get enough info on the ammo used, the real conditions, distances, etc. we are told only that a 30/06 and 30/30 were used, nor where the hunters hit the bear to make rational & logical comments, based on facts and the damage done, or lack of damage to the bears anatomy.
yet I can't help thinking when the first guy tripped and the bear grabbed his foot if he had shot the bear repeatedly center mass, at point blank range with a 357 mag revolver it would have been much more effective than the two slow shots he managed with the bolt action, he may have lived if he carried a 357 mag revolver loaded with( typical for the time 158 grain hard cast bullets at 1450 fps)
now granted they stated its in the early 1950s (*)so bullet tech sucked. (and its obvious shot placement sucked) , no bear takes repeated shots to the vital organs (even from a 30/30 or 30/06) and remains functional very long.
now in the 1980s-to- today, if hunting elk, I generally carry a 375 H&H or 340wby, or a 358 win BLR all loaded with 250-270 grain bullets , and a 44 mag revolver loaded with 310 grain hard cast bullets a big improvement over the guns and ammo quoted they used.
maybe I've been lucky , but every bear I've seen, or my buddy's have seen, or confronted in 5 decades,
ran at the sight of hunters, or at least after a gunshot to the ground, near them
1/2in holes!
I always heard anything worth putting a hole into, is worth putting a big hole in! Local gun store had this XIX brushed chrome Desert Eagle in .50AE for a price i could not pass up.
garage.grumpysperformance.com
445 dan wesson revolvers
YOULL NEED TO SHOOT A GREAT DEAL TO GET THE NECESSARY PRACTICE, its that frequent practice and hand loading that significantly reduces ammo cost, THAT MAKES THE 445 REALLY EFFECTIVE IN YOUR HANDS, CASTING YOUR OWN BULLETS SIZED EXACTLY TO THE THROAT/BORE SIZE HELPS, AS DOES THE COST SAVINGS...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
Reasonably Decent Bear Protection In A Handgun
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NQfUEVlCjws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTL9Vh6gxFI I watched the video above and its almost sure to open your eyes in how difficult it can be to stop a bear with a hand gun. personally I think a magnum revolver is ideal as your very unlikely to have the time...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
(*)(FOR MANY GUYS WHO MIGHT NOT KNOW)
44 Magnum revolver, the precursor to the Model 29, was built on December 15, 1955,
the 357 mag was available in the late 1930s
(yes it was fairly rare and moderately expensive but ammo was loaded hotter back then)
but it was semi common in serious hunters hands by the mid 1950s
and the 8.375" barrel 44 magnum revolver was announced to the public on January 19, 1956 for a price of US$140 ($1,330 in 2020 dollars)
Julian Hatcher (technical editor of American Rifleman) and Keith received two of the first production models.
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if your goal is max performance from a 44 mag revolver,
for human opponents the 180-200 grain hollow points make sense
and 2.5"-to-6" barrels are easier to carry/conceal, on a quality belt holster.
if hunting or looking for bear defense
do yourself a favor and buy and use an 7.5"-to-10.5" revolver barrel
hard cast gas check 280-320 grain bullets max penetration
yes short 2.5"-4" make the revolvers far easier to belt holster,
but a shoulder holstered, longer barrel revolver has very noticeably better punch,
and longer range accuracy in most shooters hands,
if your looking for defensive use on larger critters or hunting, that is CRITICAL
my 29-3 S&W 10 5/8' revolver (identical to this picture.. and yes you need a decent shoulder holster)
has a long record of dropping game with 310 grain hard cast bullets loaded over 21 grains of H110 powder
if you want the best results with a 44 mag revolver Id suggest you stick to 300-320 grain hards cast gas check bullet designs pushed to about the max safe pressures in a 8" or longer barrel.
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