444 Marlin Vs 358 Win

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
I was recently in a long discussion with one of the guys I've hunted with for decades,
he looked at my BLR in caliber 450 marlin but wants something with a bit lower recoil,
than the 405 grain bullets pushed to 1900 fps,-2000 fps
or the 270 grain 375 H&H bullets at nearly 2500 fps in my sako carbine,
that I use and I load for,and use in my Sako Mannlicher carbine
sako375mana.jpg

Browning_BLRsr.jpg

now a consistent shot with a 308 win or 30/06 rifle can kill any elk at the rather short ranges,
they are rather typically shot at in heavy timber,

I know I used a 30/06 in a Remington slide action to kill two decades ago.
power is not as critical as shot placement and use of a decent bullet,
ID strongly suggest 165-200 grain bullet

along with knowledge of game anatomy,
but there's no question from the results I've seen in dressing out deer and elk that larger and heavier bullets, properly placed,
do a fine job of destroying vital tissue and punching through bone
thus the harder hitting carbines have gained considerable favor, among experienced hunters.
my late hunting partner used a BLR in caliber 358 win very successfully ,
I rarely saw him need a second shot to drop elk.
and one other guy, in our group that uses a lever action,
hes impressed with, uses a marlin 444, and he's been impressed with both lever action carbines.
keep in mind your first shot is the only shot you'll get, on most hunts,
miss that, or not have it be quickly lethal,
any you may have to wait until the next years hunt.
and
the rifle should handle naturally , and come to your shoulder and with the sights aligned naturally, as it shoulders
and accuracy of 1.5" at 100 yards is more than adequate.

he wants to buy a lever action hunting rifle with some serious power,
and the area we generally hunt looks like the pictures posted,
shots over 250 yards are and have been, nearly non-existent, for over 50 years,
so the all to common concern with flat trajectory,
is of less concern than most people consider it to be.
in fact, Its been my experience that ELK stay in timber/cover most of the time,
and shots exceeding 100 yards are and ,were very rare.

hes has narrowed the choices, he likes to a marlin 444 or a browning 358 win BLR.
I've owned both, and in my experience , the best balance in power,
penetration and flat trajectory can be found with the marlin 444 ,with in my opinion the 265 grain hornady, bullet, pushed to about 2200 fps
in the marlin and with the BROWNING BLR, the 250 grain bullets (hornady or speer, bullets in the BLR)pushed to about 2250 fps
thus bullet weight and velocity are close but not the trajectory past about 150 yards,
but keep in mind you'll rarely have, the opportunity to take shots at that range still hunting elk in thick timber.
elkcoun1.png
col1.jpg




thickt1.jpg

thickt8.jpg


https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/#!/
265 grain 44 caliber bullet with a ballistic co. .225

https://shootersreference.com/reloadingdata/444-marlin/
the marlin 444 can push a 265 grain bullet to about 2250 fps in a marlin lever action,
with consistent accuracy in several rifles Ive tested.
H4198 and reloader 7 are the most accurate powders in my experience
marlin_444_rifle.jpg

sight in the 444 marlin , at 3.5" high at 100 yards is close to 7" low 200 yards,
and about 28 " low at 300 yards,
certainly adequate for elk out to 225 yards,
but not much further


https://www.speer.com/bullets/rifle_bullets/hot-cor_rifle_bullet/19-2453.html
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/35-cal-358-250-gr-interlock-sp-rp#!/
250 grain bullet with a .375 ballistic co.

https://shootersreference.com/reloadingdata/358-winchester/

the 358 win cartridge in a browning BLR can push a 250 grain bullet to about 2250- 2300 fps with consistent accuracy in several rifles Ive tested,
IMR 4064 and WW748 and IMR 3031 are the most accurate powders in my experience
Browning_BLRa.jpg



sight in the 358 win, BLR at 3.5" high at 100 yards is close to dead on at 200 yards,
and about 11 " low at 300 yards,
certainly adequate for elk.
one of my hunting partners used his successfully for 3 decades

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/

https://www.federalpremium.com/Ballistics-Calculator

related threads

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ange-calibers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...uddies-lever-action-elk-rifle-quandary.16017/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-a-good-all-around-elk-mule-deer-rifle.12948/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hat-are-you-looking-for-in-an-elk-rifle.2368/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...om-friends-over-your-choice.10059/#post-44529
 
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