460 and Tunnel Ram

Discussion in 'Intake Systems , Fuel Systems and Related' started by Ghost Torino GT, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. Hello, I'm new to this website.

    I will start by introducing myself. I'm 26 years old. I'm a proud owner of a 1968 torino GT that I'm trying to build a unused 460 big block.

    I know this got to be an annoying question. But I got to ask.

    Like I said above. I have a new in box raw 460 big block. Im already in progress of collecting parts for it.
    I want to use Ford Racing Super Cobra Jets heads. Or at least the original Cobra Jet heads.
    But there isn't many options to choose from when it comes to intake manifolds. All there is is Victor intakes and Holley tunnel ram.
    I get conflicting information when it comes to multiple carb, cross ram and tunnel ram set up.

    I want to know if I can get good streetable performance with a big block using a tunnel ram?
    Btw, I plan to use EFI on it.
     
  2. I seen the other tunnel ram threads. But I wanted to know more about large displacement fords with tunnel ram set ups.
     
  3. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    the VAST MAJORITY of issues people have had with any tunnel ram intake are based on either lack of hood clearance,(with any brand of engine,)
    or in most case's mis-matched components,and a lack of proper lower rpm fuel distribution.
    tunnel ram intakes are designed too allow a direct line of air flow from the base of the pair of 4 barrel carburetors to the back of the cylinder heads intake valve,so they can flow and provide much better cylinder fill efficiency in their ideal designed operational power band,but you,ll need to match the cars drive train to keep the engine operating mostly in that rpm range.
    swapping to a direct port EFI with an individual fuel injector fogging fuel directly into each cylinder head port and having computer controlled fuel distribution eliminates almost all the lower rpm fuel distribution issues[​IMG]

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    KEEP IN MIND proper cam timing and fairly high compression the exhaust scavenging will add considerably to the efficiency of the cylinder filling and power, it should be obvious that the drive train gearing must match the intended engines power band.
    most tunnel ram intakes are designed for max cylinder fill efficiency in the 3500 rpm-7000 rpm range, obviously as the displacement is increased the port air speeds also increase, but generally youll want a manual transmission or a 3000 rpm stall converter on any automatic transmission and a cam with a 235-240 @.050 duration, a fairly tight 106-108 LSA, and at least a 10:1 compression ratio, long tube headers with a low restriction exhaust (a minimum of dual 3" with an (X) pipe would be a good idea.

    It the total combo that needs to match correctly , look at the info above and youll get the basics of a reasonable street performance 460 ford.

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    RELATED INFO youll really need, youll most likely want 70-85 lb injectors
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    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-related-engine-build-links.13190/#post-68831

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/calculate-fuel-injector-size.1200/

    http://www.enginelabs.com/news/611-cubes-of-big-block-ford-fury-from-straub-technologies/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...w-ford-572-bbf-crate-engine.13064/#post-68035

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-dual-throttle-body-bbc-efi.9863/#post-37578

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sources-for-ford-blocks.4695/#post-12729
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
    Ghost Torino GT likes this.
  4. I know. I'm not scared to cut a hole in my hood. But I get confusing advise. Even from people that grew up around these things.
    I want to build a street monster out of this car.
     
  5. Sorry for my last comment. Phone was going crazy. I know the tunnel ram is mostly for race use and high rpm application. I hear some people claim to have great success with them on the street. But I might play it safe and use Edelbrock rpm heads and intake.
     

  6. I will read and take in l the advice I can before I buy the parts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2018
  7. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    post a potential list of parts (part numbers etc.)you might be looking to use, the car weight,
    gear ratios, tire diameter, injector size, head flow, and the engines compression etc.
    headers diameter/length, and we can better judge how well the components match.
     
    Ghost Torino GT likes this.
  8. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    There are Vintage Offy or Offenhauser Intakes to choose from also if you do not go the Tunnel Ram Route.
    Best place to look is on Ebay.
     
    Ghost Torino GT likes this.
  9. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    I recall seeing 3 Offenhauser Ford 460 Intakes Single Plane Non Tunnel Ram.
    Offy Super Sonic.
    Offy Port O Sonic.
    Offy Dial A Flow.
     
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  10. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Offy Dual Quad Ford 460 Intake Also.
     
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  11. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    Welcome to the website ! You are in good hands ! Where abouts do you live in Texas ?

    Post some photos of your project when you can!
     
    Ghost Torino GT likes this.
  12. Strictly Attitude

    Strictly Attitude solid fixture here in the forum

    Welcome aboard!! Love the Torino I had a Lincoln with a 460 I wanted to use the tunnel ram on. But if you are going EFI with the setup as stated do you plan to use port injection? or throttle-body injection like a fi-tech or holley sniper? Love the idea and efi can help with the low rpm drivability on an engine with lower vacuum numbers. A good matched set up is what you need. What are the current specs as how she sits.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    Ghost Torino GT likes this.
  13. I will post the list of parts I had in mind for y'all to judge to see if it will work.
    Right now I got to have the block blue printed. I just got the crankshaft for it the other day. I got to get it looked at too. It's a new in box factory crank. What I can tell with the part number. It was meant for heavy duty truck use.
    I went with factory crank because I wanted the original stroke to get it as close to the original displacement as possible. I have no attention to use nitro or any other power adder.
    The block is an older casting. But it's also still in it's box.
    I plan to replace the main bolts with ARP studs. Since it's never been used. I don't have to over bore it.

    I Torino GT has a tired old 302 in it now. I was going to reuse it. I even bought a edebrock x-f8 cross ram intake manifold for it. And I was going to stroke it to 331. But I didn't trust the block enough to go through with it.
    So I started to work to get my hands on a Dart 363 block and see if the cross ram intake will work on it. But all that was was a expensive beefed up 302. So I tried to find a 351 Cleveland. But all I found was junk cores I was to scared to be willing to put money into.
    So I started looking at those new 351 dart block. But after a while. I realized that no matter what. The small blocks are never going to be what I want them to be.
    So I dicided to wait and see what is out there to use. I looked on Craigslist and found the 460.

    I still have the Edelbrock cross ram intake manifold. I'm selling it now. IMG_20180227_142455.jpg IMG_20171012_212337.jpg
    19055779_1747966548553205_4197561849593560417_o.jpg

    I know it's a two bolt main block. But like I said above. I have no plans to use power adders and Im going to use arp studs.
    I'm going to go with hydraulic roller Cam and lifters and I had in mind to use a modern 5 speed transmission.
     
  14. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    I have had a few Fords and they were great cars or Trucks.
    I had a Lincoln like John.
    Mine was a 1973 Lincoln Mark IV With a 460 4bbl.
    C6 Auto with a 9 inch rearend with 2.73 gears.
    I Raced that car everywhere.
    It was Fast for such a large and heavy car.
    9 inch let go one day and then put 2.41 gears in.
    It was even faster then on the Highways.
     
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  15. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    A Ford 510 ci Stroker 460 or around there I recall. I heard they really run hard.
    460 makes broad Killer Torque. Hp there also.
     
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  16. Loves302Chevy

    Loves302Chevy "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

    Technically, you can't just swap the bolts for studs without a line hone. The forces are exerted differently and the main bearing bores will no longer be truly round.

    Dual throttle body fuel injection for your tunnel ram. :rock:
    http://fitechefi.com/products/go-efi-kits-2x4/
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    Ghost Torino GT likes this.
  17. Here is my list of parts in I plan to buy.

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6049-scj

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-cl243655-10

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-90083

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wnd-1993

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fif-30064

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-94315

    This is just to give y'all an idea of what I had in mind. Some people complain about problems with the throttle body type efi system. I think they don't truly understand what they are working with.
     
  18. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    BBF Head Heirarchy from best to worst

    1. C&C C-441 Hemi
    2. C&C B-441 Hemi
    3. HFD Pentroof Hemi
    4. C&C A-441 Hemi
    5. Ford Motorsport A-441 Hemi (No longer in production)
    6. Indy Cylinder Hemi
    7. Ford E-460 Pro Stock
    8. Blue Thunder Thor Gen II
    9. Blue Thunder Thor Gen I
    10. Profiler C-Replacement
    11. Ford C-460
    12. Ford D-460 Pro Stock (No longer in production)
    13. Ford Motorsport bastard Pro Stock (There are various stages) (No longer in production)
    14. IDT Eliminator A-460
    15. EX514
    16. New TFS A-460 18-bolt
    18. New TFS A-460
    19. EX514 Cast Iron A-460
    20. IDT Eliminator Cast Iron A-460
    21. Older TFS A-460 (No longer in production)
    22. Ford Motorsport A-460 (No longer in production)
    23. Ford Motorsport A-460 (Ford exhaust port) (No longer in production)
    24. Kaase Hemi
    25. Boss 429 Replacement
    26. Ford Stock Hemi (No longer in production)
    27. TFS B-460 (small port) (No longer in production)
    28. Ford Motorsport B-460 (small port) (No longer in production)
    29. Kaase P-51
    30. Ford Racing Parts SCJ
    31. Blue Thunder CJ with Chevy exhaust flange
    32. Blue Thunder CJ with raised Ford exhaust port
    33. TFS Street
    34. Blue Thunder CJ with stock Ford exhaust port location
    35. TFS CJ (No longer in production)
    36. Ford A-429 CJ (No longer in production)
    37. Edelbrock CJ
    38. Ford Cast Iron DOOE-R CJ (No longer in production)
    39. Edelbrock 75cc Standard Port
    40. Ford Cast iron PI (No longer in production)
    41. ProComp Aluminum 74cc
    42. Ford Cast Iron C8VE (No longer in production)
    43. Ford Cast Iron C9VE (No longer in production)
    44. Ford Cast Iron DOVE (No longer in production)
    45. Edelbrock 95cc Standard Port
    46. ProComp Aluminum 95cc
    47. Ford Cast iron D3VE (No longer in production)
    48. Ford Cast Iron E6TE (No longer in production)
    49. Ford Cast Iron F8TE (No longer in production)
    50. Ford Cast Iron "Fuelie" F3TE (No longer in production)
    51. Ford Cast Iron "Fuelie" E7TE (No longer in production)
    52. Ford Cast iron D2VE (No longer in production)
    53. Ford Cast Iron D8TE (or E9TE, to be confirmed) (No longer in production)

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-385-family-ford-429-460.1089/#post-2129
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  19. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Some Guys are Big FI Tech Fans.
    I am really not.
    I Think the Holley Terminator EFI Is better. Seen it 1st hand on a 454 BBC in the Race shop last year.
    An Edelbrock Carb was replaced with a Holley EFI Throttle body system.
    EFI gets expensive and many guys prefer.

    I still Like Carburetors yet.
    Fan Of Q-Jets on Pontiac V8's.
    Factory Pontiac Tri Power Systems.
    Fan Of Holley 4150 series Carbs.
    I Like AED Racing Holley Carbs.
    The Best I think is by Bo Laws Carburators or BLP Racing they are now. Down in Florida where Grumpy Is.
    Every single Nascar team in the past before the switch to EFI got there Holley Parts from Bo Laws. AED does too.

    AED Racing carbs are an excellent value for the Money.
    Custom Built too like a Bo Laws BLP.
     
  20. Strictly Attitude

    Strictly Attitude solid fixture here in the forum

    I like the efi but look into the software and it's limitations first an auto tune will not replace a dyno session on a brake dyno by any means. You need to tune the fuel to the timing carbs are more forgiving here where efi is not. But it still has come light years in the last 30 years. I would look into Grumpy's list before buying heads and buy a complete head that matches your cam specs spring wise. There are advantages to a complete head.
     

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