496ci revamped

[Grumpy]

Loves302Chevy"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
New
Why must everything simple be turned into something difficult?
And why are people stopped dead in their tracks if an aftermarket bolt-on part doesn't exist?

MACHINE 1/4" from the damper's hub. Too easy.

Ive read so many threads and instantly thought something similar
so many guys look at any issue and think...... they must sell a part that will fix that!
and in so many cases, a bit of custom machine work and careful measurement solves the issue..
obviously you need to fully understand your options and what can and can,t be done economically and how all components function, and if a part does not fit correctly,
calling the manufacturer for ideas, is a valid first step in solving the issues.


one of the most frequently used tools in my tool chest

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Why must everything simple be turned into something difficult?
And why are people stopped dead in their tracks if an aftermarket bolt-on part doesn't exist?

MACHINE 1/4" from the damper's hub. Too easy.

If he machines the face of the ATI Harmonic balacer the warranty will likely be void Mike.

 

[Loves302Chevy]

If he machines the face of the ATI Harmonic balacer the warranty will likely be void Mike.

Not the face, the rearmost part of the hub that goes against the lower timing gear.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Not the face, the rearmost part of the hub that goes against the lower timing gear.

I did not think of that.
Never seen it done that way Mike.
It would work.
Losing surface area a small amount that presses on the crankshaft snout.
Hopefully does no matter.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Say the Hell with Warrenty by ATI if any issues ?

 

[Grumpy]

Not the face, the rearmost part of the hub that goes against the lower timing gear.

when I read that I thought......how could he have meant anything other than that?


if the damper seated against the crank timing gear on the crank snout sticks out too far , the

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-6505

these tools work well, fit most engines and if you do break off a thread adapter you can order a replacement without needing to pay for the whole new tool, and keep in mind the threads strip or adapters break if the dampers OVER TIGHTENED,ALL TOOLS WILL BREAK IF OVER STRESSED, this CAN generally be avoided with simply taking a few accurate measurements and use of some marvel mystery oil on the damper, crank and the installing tool threads
Yes I busted one thread adapter years back , but it was a P.I.T.A. waiting on a replacement and I learned not to over tighten the tool, and watch carefully on the measurements and have not had that happen for 30 plus years keeping the tool and damper and crank snout well lubed makes it slide on easier
measuring and checking the interference fits correct helps

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Kinda Scary.
The snout om a BBC is large.
But not as Big as A Pontiac V8.

If Balacer is fully seated I think Machining a 1 off Crank Pulley be best.
A Masak 5 axis CNC be best.
Need somebody to program it.

 

[Loves302Chevy]

when I read that I thought......how could he have meant anything other than that?

Exactly. Those pictures are perfect for illustrating the modification.
Of all the engines I have built and worked on over the years, there is not 1 single part I've bought
that didn't require some type of modification, whether it be the pipe threads in an intake manifold
needing to be tapped a little deeper because the fitting or sensor would only go in 1 thread, or
fabricating one-off parts because what you need does not exist.

That is the difference between "building" an engine and assembling a bunch of bolt-on parts!

 

[Speedlink1973]

Why must everything simple be turned into something difficult?
And why are people stopped dead in their tracks if an aftermarket bolt-on part doesn't exist?

MACHINE 1/4" from the damper's hub. Too easy.

Not really stopped dead in my tracks,
And this was my first thought to machine off balancer, but it gains me nothing .
If I machine balancer the big diameter
Of balancer will get into the studs on top belt drive pulley, right now there's only about .08 clearance, if I knock off .250 off the studs and nut, I lose half my holding clamp pressure .
I found a suitable fix funny it's a Ford item, they make 5 7/8" water pump pulley which will increase my water pump speed, all I have to do is rotate it 180 degrees and put 4 new holes in it
And I may not need to do that, not sure what bolt circle is on a Ford.

And if I need to make a pulley not a problem I will just make one,
Everyone kinda missed my question to begin with it was more about asking if running it 1:1 would work or should I overdrive.
To overdrive it I would need to come up with a solution to do so, I can custom make about anything but if a part fits
It just saves time, if they made a 5 7/8" dia
Chevy big block water pump pulley for 30 or 40 dollars it absolutely makes known sense in making it.

And there's several custom parts I've made, including a cam adapter for the belt drive.

I could have counter bored lower pulley
But I would run into same issues with studs and nuts on top pulley

 

[Speedlink1973]

when I read that I thought......how could he have meant anything other than that?


if the damper seated against the crank timing gear on the crank snout sticks out too far , the

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-6505

these tools work well, fit most engines and if you do break off a thread adapter you can order a replacement without needing to pay for the whole new tool, and keep in mind the threads strip or adapters break if the dampers OVER TIGHTENED,ALL TOOLS WILL BREAK IF OVER STRESSED, this CAN generally be avoided with simply taking a few accurate measurements and use of some marvel mystery oil on the damper, crank and the installing tool threads
Yes I busted one thread adapter years back , but it was a P.I.T.A. waiting on a replacement and I learned not to over tighten the tool, and watch carefully on the measurements and have not had that happen for 30 plus years keeping the tool and damper and crank snout well lubed makes it slide on easier
measuring and checking the interference fits correct helps

I actually honed my balancer out
I thought 2 and a half thousandths was way too tight it's about 1 and a half thousandths now, and I used a 2 and a half pound hammer to put it on.

Lol no, just kidding I bought a installation tool to put it on (see pictures in first part of post at tools used )
I checked the timing on it to be sure it's fully seated

 

[Speedlink1973]

Here's a good picture on how close studs are to balancer

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Not really stopped dead in my tracks,
And this was my first thought to machine off balancer, but it gains me nothing .
If I machine balancer the big diameter
Of balancer will get into the studs on top belt drive pulley, right now there's only about .08 clearance, if I knock off .250 off the studs and nut, I lose half my holding clamp pressure .
I found a suitable fix funny it's a Ford item, they make 5 7/8" water pump pulley which will increase my water pump speed, all I have to do is rotate it 180 degrees and put 4 new holes in it
And I may not need to do that, not sure what bolt circle is on a Ford.

And if I need to make a pulley not a problem I will just make one,
Everyone kinda missed my question to begin with it was more about asking if running it 1:1 would work or should I overdrive.
To overdrive it I would need to come up with a solution to do so, I can custom make about anything but if a part fits
It just saves time, if they made a 5 7/8" dia
Chevy big block water pump pulley for 30 or 40 dollars it absolutely makes known sense in making it.

And there's several custom parts I've made, including a cam adapter for the belt drive.

I could have counter bored lower pulley
But I would run into same issues with studs and nuts on top pulley

My Vote is a 1 : 1 crank pulley to water pump ratio if possible.
Just my own experience with Pontiac V8 spun high constant.
455s had a special large 8 inch diameter water pump pulley that is usually long gone today.
Larger diameter than a 400 pontiac.
Done to slow the water pump down.
Cools the larger 455 better all the time.

May apply to a 496 Stroker BBC.
Have to check with others and see what has worked for them.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Here's a good picture on how close studs are to balancer

Not much clearances Yes.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

They did the same with a Pontiac RAV 400 with Pictures I seen online.
Appeared to be a 1 to 1 drive ratio for the water pump.


Back in the dirt track days we used BLP Pullies on the Stroker Small block Chevy.
1 : 1 Drive ratio.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

If you machine up your Crank Pulley it needs to be T6 Heat Treated 6061 Aluminum.
Same stuff as a soda pop can is made from.
Strong.
Or T7 6061. Aircraft grade.

 

[Speedlink1973]

If you machine up your Crank Pulley it needs to be T6 Heat Treated 6061 Aluminum.
Same stuff as a soda pop can is made from.
Strong.
Or T7 6061. Aircraft grade.

Every thing I found was most big blocks are 1:1 on the crank pulley , my current pulley has two at 6 7/8" and one at 7 7/8" pulley so I bought short belt
Water pump pulley is 6 7/8" which makes it 1:1 now it's all lined up, I was trying to figure out if they originally was over driving because of the cheap water pump they used, which has since been changed to a weiand aluminum water pump,
I would think you wouldn't want the water flying through before it had a chance to pick up heat and transfer it to the water.

 

[Speedlink1973]

Ive read so many threads and instantly thought something similar
so many guys look at any issue and think...... they must sell a part that will fix that!
and in so many cases, a bit of custom machine work and careful measurement solves the issue..
obviously you need to fully understand your options and what can and can,t be done economically and how all components function, and if a part does not fit correctly,
calling the manufacturer for ideas, is a valid first step in solving the issues.


one of the most frequently used tools in my tool chest

Ive read so many threads and instantly thought something similar
so many guys look at any issue and think...... they must sell a part that will fix that!
and in so many cases, a bit of custom machine work and careful measurement solves the issue..
obviously you need to fully understand your options and what can and can,t be done economically and how all components function, and if a part does not fit correctly,
calling the manufacturer for ideas, is a valid first step in solving the issues.


one of the most frequently used tools in my tool chest

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Every thing I found was most big blocks are 1:1 on the crank pulley , my current pulley has two at 6 7/8" and one at 7 7/8" pulley so I bought short belt
Water pump pulley is 6 7/8" which makes it 1:1 now it's all lined up, I was trying to figure out if they originally was over driving because of the cheap water pump they used, which has since been changed to a weiand aluminum water pump,
I would think you wouldn't want the water flying through before it had a chance to pick up heat and transfer it to the water.

Seems to be experimental finding the right water pump driven speed for some.
The pump may be cavitating at high speeds.
Difficult to tell or diagnose.
The cylinder heads generate the most heat around the exhaust seats.

 

[Grumpy]

that, need for the coolant traveling through the engine,to take time to absorb and release heat, is
a complete myth, as long as the radiator has at least the minimum surface area that will cool the engine to about 200 f
with minimal air flow like the car sees sitting still only using the fans to supply air flow,the faster the coolant flows the more effective the cooling system becomes
the larger the surface area of the radiator, and number of fins per inch of surface area around the coolant transfer tubes,
and the higher the coolant volume in relation to the total percentage of coolant in the engine ,
the greater the volume of outside air mass passing over the fins and tube surface area,
the more effective the radiator can become, but remember OIL does much of the initial heat absorption and heat transfer ,
so adding an effective oil cooler with its own fan, significantly improves engine cooling efficiency
ample
lets assume you really want this $180 ,
trans fluid or oil cooler,
you'll want too stop and think things carefully and measure accurately
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-45908

Summit Racing Part Number:FLX-45908

Overall Height (in):10.500 in.

Overall Width (in):15.000 in.

Overall Thickness (in):4.000 in.
Flex-a-lite's fan-equipped, heavy-duty remote coolers offer a great combination of cooling power and freedom of mounting location, all at down-to-earth prices. Their tube-and-fin design is made up of efficient aluminum fins and multi-pass copper tubing. With their attached 800 cfm electric fans, they don't have to be mounted in direct airflow to work. They make their own breeze. So you can put them in just about any convenient, reasonable place and they'll still get the job done. There also are dual-circuit versions that accommodate two different fluids--such as engine oil and automatic-transmission fluid--in the same-size cooler. That's especially good for applications where space is limited or cooling needs for the fluids concerned aren't extreme. A manual control switch, air-conditioning override switch, and GatorClip mounting clips are available separately.
in this case you would make a test styra-foam block
10.75" tall
17.25"-to-17.5" wide
4.25" thick
if that fits where you intend to fit the fluid cooler you have a great indicator it will fit
obviously the cooler needs to mount to something sturdy so ideally the mount stand or brackets you custom fabricate will have it firmly and solidly located where you intended it to be!
(you'll want to order a GAUGE an ADJUSTABLE FAN CONTROL RELAY/CONTROLLER
SEPARATELY, and once you've verified clearances you order the components then measure and get custom lines fabricated
some of my least favorite myths
(1) you need to slow the coolant flow thru the radiator to allow time to cool the fluid moving thru it
(2) swapping from a 190F to a 160F T-stat will significantly reduce an engines tendency to over heat.

(3) removing the t-stat will cure over heating

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-system-flow-rates-and-heat-transfer.9880/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/thoughts-on-cooling.149/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-the-cooling-system-works-basics.853/

 

[Speedlink1973]

that, need for the coolant traveling through the engine,to take time to absorb and release heat, is
a complete myth, as long as the radiator has at least the minimum surface area that will cool the engine to about 200 f
with minimal air flow like the car sees sitting still only using the fans to supply air flow,the faster the coolant flows the more effective the cooling system becomes
the larger the surface area of the radiator, and number of fins per inch of surface area around the coolant transfer tubes,
and the higher the coolant volume in relation to the total percentage of coolant in the engine ,
the greater the volume of outside air mass passing over the fins and tube surface area,
the more effective the radiator can become, but remember OIL does much of the initial heat absorption and heat transfer ,
so adding an effective oil cooler with its own fan, significantly improves engine cooling efficiency
ample
lets assume you really want this $180 ,
trans fluid or oil cooler,
you'll want too stop and think things carefully and measure accurately
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-45908

Summit Racing Part Number:FLX-45908

Overall Height (in):10.500 in.

Overall Width (in):15.000 in.

Overall Thickness (in):4.000 in.
Flex-a-lite's fan-equipped, heavy-duty remote coolers offer a great combination of cooling power and freedom of mounting location, all at down-to-earth prices. Their tube-and-fin design is made up of efficient aluminum fins and multi-pass copper tubing. With their attached 800 cfm electric fans, they don't have to be mounted in direct airflow to work. They make their own breeze. So you can put them in just about any convenient, reasonable place and they'll still get the job done. There also are dual-circuit versions that accommodate two different fluids--such as engine oil and automatic-transmission fluid--in the same-size cooler. That's especially good for applications where space is limited or cooling needs for the fluids concerned aren't extreme. A manual control switch, air-conditioning override switch, and GatorClip mounting clips are available separately.
in this case you would make a test styra-foam block
10.75" tall
17.25"-to-17.5" wide
4.25" thick
if that fits where you intend to fit the fluid cooler you have a great indicator it will fit
obviously the cooler needs to mount to something sturdy so ideally the mount stand or brackets you custom fabricate will have it firmly and solidly located where you intended it to be!
(you'll want to order a GAUGE an ADJUSTABLE FAN CONTROL RELAY/CONTROLLER
SEPARATELY, and once you've verified clearances you order the components then measure and get custom lines fabricated
some of my least favorite myths
(1) you need to slow the coolant flow thru the radiator to allow time to cool the fluid moving thru it
(2) swapping from a 190F to a 160F T-stat will significantly reduce an engines tendency to over heat.

(3) removing the t-stat will cure over heating

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-system-flow-rates-and-heat-transfer.9880/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/thoughts-on-cooling.149/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-the-cooling-system-works-basics.853/

I have a 30 row oil cooler rectangle style or flat plate style whichever you want to call it with an10 lines sandwich plate with a 220 deg thermostat
fan box I have for radiator coolant pulls 4500 cfm
Amp draw is 39 amp's
Transmission has a stand alone 32 row
Copper round tube style an8 lines and a 800cfm fan , it has never seen over 180 degrees at 34 degrees timing before revamp 200 degrees with a ambient temperature 100 in traffic

The alternator I have is for a ambulance
185 amps and it doesn't take a lot of rpm to get 100 amp out. So if it spins slower it won't hurt it.