496ci revamped

Speedlink1973 said:
Gapless second ring 5/64 5/64 3/16
Click to expand...
I like the Total Seal Gapless.
Grumpy does not.

They have a few quirks.
Real important to have Dual valvecover breathers.
If you use a PCV valve you must install a restrictor .030".
The engine pulls 3-4 more inches vacuum typical.

I used always in my Pontiac 455s.
Has high piston speeds like the 496 BBC your Building.
 
As soon as the engine fires and timing set Rev to 2000-4000 Rpm.
Buzz it but not 5-6 k high.

Get a tune.
Then drive.

If the Block was Platue honed the Total Seal Gapless rings will seat in 10-30 seconds.
I still follow through old school break in procedures.
 
Maniacmechanic1 said:
I like the Total Seal Gapless.
Grumpy does not.

They have a few quirks.
Real important to have Dual valvecover breathers.
If you use a PCV valve you must install a restrictor .030".
The engine pulls 3-4 more inches vacuum typical.

I used always in my Pontiac 455s.
Has high piston speeds like the 496 BBC your Building.
Click to expand...
One of the reasons I went with gapless
Was for the vacuum, I have power brakes
I put on the car two years ago and the fact that fitech unit I have loves vacuum,
And no PCV and I have the two valve cover breathers one on each side one
Has a tube like for a PCV but just runs straight to fitech unit, should I ditch the tube and just run open breather?

I watched a video of Total seal QS
Powder
 
Maniacmechanic1 said:
I like the Total Seal Gapless.
Grumpy does not.

They have a few quirks.
Real important to have Dual valvecover breathers.
If you use a PCV valve you must install a restrictor .030".
The engine pulls 3-4 more inches vacuum typical.

I used always in my Pontiac 455s.
Has high piston speeds like the 496 BBC your Building.
Click to expand...
Remember when I told you about the guy a month or so ago that called them tractor rings, got a new guy this time he said
They are old style rings that will eventually phase out, high rpm motors benefit from thinner rings
But anything under 6500 rpm doesn't gain much hp benefit vs overall longevity for a street engine.
6 to 8 hp under 6500 rpm
 
Speedlink1973 said:
One of the reasons I went with gapless
Was for the vacuum, I have power brakes
I put on the car two years ago and the fact that fitech unit I have loves vacuum,
And no PCV and I have the two valve cover breathers one on each side one
Has a tube like for a PCV but just runs straight to fitech unit, should I ditch the tube and just run open breather?

I watched a video of Total seal QS
Powder
Click to expand...
We are going to have to see how your current crankcase breather system works out.
Your the 1 st guy to build a 496 ci BBC from the ground up and posted since I have been here 2011.

Trend has been crankcase evacuation pumps.
Not so practical on the street.

Header scavenger crankcase evacuation was real popular till 11-12 years ago.
 
Speedlink1973 said:
Remember when I told you about the guy a month or so ago that called them tractor rings, got a new guy this time he said
They are old style rings that will eventually phase out, high rpm motors benefit from thinner rings
But anything under 6500 rpm doesn't gain much hp benefit vs overall longevity for a street engine.
6 to 8 hp under 6500 rpm
Click to expand...

Yes. Lots of debate.
Watched a video last night.
Metric thin ring packs deliver 7-8 more Hp.
Will post later today the Vid.

As far as I can tell Pontiac was the 1st to use thinner rings in its 455.
5/64" top.
2nd was 1/16".
Oil ring pack was 3/16".
 
I wouldn't think crankcase pressure would go up unless you had really crappy
Valve guides and seals, I would think with gapless rings you would have less,
I know total seal asked what heads I was running because I guess certain valve guide seal won't work.
 
Speedlink1973 said:
I wouldn't think crankcase pressure would go up unless you had really crappy
Valve guides and seals, I would think with gapless rings you would have less,
I know total seal asked what heads I was running because I guess certain valve guide seal won't work.
Click to expand...
They pull alot more Vacuum Total Seal Gapless Rings.
Mystery oil consumption problems are what I fought.
No smoke ever.
People following behind my 1970 Trans Am said no oil smoke WOT.
3 inch tail pipes, full 3 inch dual back.

I had to close up running Valveguide to valvestem clearances.
To do that K-Liner Bronze Guides.
Bought a Sunnen Valveguide Hone, Known as the Sunnen P30.
Bought a small dial bore gauge set measures down to .0001".
Could not find a machinist that would Hone running clearances I wanted & Total Seal recommended to me.
Machined the Valveguide seal bosses myself with the Crower Tool.
Viton Valvestem seals.
I know Machine work. Worked in a machine shop when younger.
Not a Pro Tool & Die Maker like you though. You guys are the best of the best.

Oil consumption issues went away.
They pull that much more vacuum.

They are not for everyone Total Seal Gapless Rings.
Any less than perfection will likely have issues.
But they do work.
Won Many Races uses Gapless Rings.

Much as I love the Gapless Rings.
With today's guys slap parts on and go, I steer away and conventional rings a better fit for them.
They have no inclination understanding of Tight tolerance 1/10,000 ths inch tolerances.
Just did not have the education.
 
If you honing valve guides to a tenth
You're doing alright in my book.
buildings motor is a lot like building a die,it's all attention to detail.
you're right
A lot of people don't get it , a human hair is about 4 thousandths of an inch a tenth is 40 times smaller than a human hair, a half a tenth
Is 50 millionth 50 millionth is breath on steel I mean breath on a piece of steel
And the fog is 50 millionth.
 
Speedlink1973 said:
You get into micron's it's even crazy small
Click to expand...
We had a Tool Room Machine Shop in the shop I worked at.
My Bud Mopar Bob got me in the job back in 1998.
It was encased in glass & a single door the Tool Room machine shop.
Air conditioned.
Only an Elite few were allowed in.
Tool Room Guys.
Bob was allowed in too because he could machine fix issues no one else could.

There was an inspection room too.
I was allowed in.
I knew the Head inspector & He liked Me.
Taught me alot too.
 
Here's what I run now for the most part, but if I need to widdle up a piece of steel
I buzz down to the shop and widdle up whatever I need.

I work in the largest meteorology labs in USA. we have 4 other labs in the plant
This lab has 10 CMM's with Renishaw Revo 5 axis scanning , we check cases Bells valve bodies intermediate Plates
"Or old school torque converter "
All 9 speed transmissions
Grumpy said:
looks like you have the basics well covered, and many of the more common related,
required tools on hand.. its always great too see a tool display like that, that allows you to verify a lot more clearances,
I always wonder about those few guys that seem to think you can take parts out of the shipping box,
and assemble an engine, with a set of wrenches
congrats on what appears to be a well planed engine assembly

are those, what it looks like?
closed chamber design pistons, and open chamber cylinder heads?
yes Im well aware there are universal fits either head chamber design piston domes pistons sold, and the fact you had heat barrier coating applied is a big plus.
yeah I know that either type works fine but it also tends to reduce compression

how do you like that style ring compressor? I find those work far better than most of the other types
Click to expand...
I read this a few times, and just don't get it
I mean I understand what you're saying
About open chamber heads closed chamber pistons, if you get time Grumpy
Can you explain why?
Just trying to get your point of view
I think I understand what you're saying
But it doesn't make sense to me.
I know it sounds like a dumb question.

But I puzzled about it for a few day
I guess my thoughts on it are incorrect I'm sure,
But here it is, assuming you have a
25cc piston for closed chamber and 25cc dome for a open chamber it's all area
So to create 25cc on a closed chamber piston the dome would need to be taller then the 25cc open chamber which is more spread out?
Or that's not how it works
 
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rectvsoval.jpg

the upper closed chamber head is bath tube shaped to provide dual opposed quench areas that squish against the piston deck,
forcing the fuel air mix toward the central cylinder bore, the lower open chamber head combustion chamber was found to un-shroud the valves,\
thus increasing the cylinder fill efficiency especially at upper rpms.
the dome higher compression ratio pistons for both combustion chambers are similar in shape to the combustion chambers they are designed too be used with.
the closed chamber piston can be used with the larger open chamber combustion chamber , but its reduced volume results in less effective compression and the dome,
of the closed chamber dome is marginally restrictive to the flame front propagation.

bbchead1.jpg

opench1.jpg

opench2.jpg



.
 
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Grumpy said:
rectvsoval.jpg

the upper closed chamber head is bath tube shaped to provide dual opposed quench areas that squish against the piston deck,
forcing the fuel air mix toward the central cylinder bore, the lower open chamber head combustion chamber was found to un-shroud the valves,\
thus increasing the cylinder fill efficiency especially at upper rpms.
the dome higher compression ratio pistons for both combustion chambers are similar in shape to the combustion chambers they are designed too be used with.
the closed chamber piston can be used with the larger open chamber combustion chamber , but its reduced volume results in less effective compression and the dome,
of the closed chamber dome is marginally restrictive to the flame front propagation.

bbchead1.jpg

opench1.jpg

opench2.jpg



.
Click to expand...
Bad thing is , it's hard to figure what the true compression is
 
no, if you have any engine and want too find the true compression you need to deal in verified fact, not assume what the manufacturers suggest is always correct.
you just cc the heads, combustion chamber volume, place the piston 1" down the bore and seal the rings gap around the pistons,
above the rings with moly grease or Vaseline and measure that volume and calculate what a bore diameter cylinder 1" tall would
contain, minus the volume you,ve measured, the piston dome took up.then calculate the true compression.

measure the piston deck height after the machined block has the rotating assembly test fitted
deckx.jpg

piston down in hole at TDC.jpg

peanutpl2.jpg



pdome2.jpg

pdome3.jpg

pdome1.jpg


read related linked info

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-chamber-or-piston-dome-or-port-volume.2077/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/ccing-my-heads.14187/#post-71989

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-combustion-chambers.2630/page-3#post-77963
 
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Many of those ring filers will leave a pie shaped gap, unless you compensate for the thickness of
the grinding wheel. Did you look closely at the gap to see if the edges were parallel?

20180707_164454.jpg

RingEndGapNotParalla01.jpg
 
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