a failure to learn from experience,or ask questions can get expensive.

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
as some guys may remember I live in palm beach county florida and theres a big car show this weekend
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/
well this generally results in the local guys interested in cars showing a bit of interest as might be expected.
one of my neighbors saw a guy towing a trailer with an engine less and suspension missing. drive train missing, 1938 pick-up truck , basically a gutted cab, and partial frame with very little but the cab and partial pick-up bed, to start with, that gutted truck cab, has doors and a floor,but it, had no interior or glass, steering column or gauges in the dash, and while it was not heavily rusted it was also not chopped like the one pictured below and the tail gate, and floor was missing on the bed.
I don,t know what he paid, but he seemed thrilled with the price , but I don,t think he has a good mental grasp on whats going to be required to get that bare shell into drive-able and legally street licensed, condition with a valid title.
"jumping into a project like this, without ever seriously working on cars and engines before you do, is a bit like jumping off a bridge into the ocean and assuming you'll learn how to swim in mid air before you hit the water",anyway,he had the guy drop the partial body off in his driveway, then came over last night after it got dropped off, and started asking questions!
and only after he paid this guy and starts asking me whats going to be required to get the car built. and where he can get the car modified, a rear differential, an engine, a transmission etc. does it start to become clearer what hes started on as a project!
now keep in mind this guy needed my help replacing disc brake pads

but he sees all my buddies constantly driving up and hes developed the beginning stages of the car building mental infection and while I sympathize and understand, he has no clue , as to the time and expense and effort that this will require to do correctly, and while I'm fully willing to help out , BUT I get the distinct feeling he assumes this should only take a couple weekends and a couple thousand dollars more to accomplish!
while this looks like an interesting project , I know for a fact the guys garage is stacked full of the wifes (can't throw that OUT we might need it crap) and ALL his tools fit in an easily carried sears tool box,
83101.jpg

so this will either become a learning experience where I gain a rather dedicated to his project hot rodder friend,(probably with a not too friendly wife)
or a rather disillusioned neighbor with a not too happy wife after he clears out all the wife's trash, nick knacks, and used furniture etc,

PODS has storage containers, I rented one for several years before my shop was built
podsst.png

or a BIG YARD SALE might help
so step one is clear out the garage so he has a place too work and buy 4 12 ton jack stands


12tonstand.jpg

or the home built versions
woodst1da.jpg

kuickl1.jpg

if your working on cars with limited ceiling heights the kwik lift is a nice tool

on most more modern cars theres no easy to access place to hook a tow strap
so if you intend to trailer and race any car it makes a great deal of sense to customize or bolt or weld on substantial loops or rings too the lower frame where a tow strap can be securely clipped in place to tow or secure the car too a trailer

DSC00325.jpg

DSC00326.jpg

DSC00327.jpg

extended tow loops can be added too the forward and rear frame rails on the cars corners, by welding or bolting , to allow secure towing or tie downs on a trailer, these come in dozens of sizes and designs
DSC00328.jpg

DSC00329.jpg


and sitting down and discussing in DETAIL,what he wants for an engine,transmission,rear differential, frame, interior gauges seats, radiator radiator grill, oil cooler oil pan, induction, lights etc, to use in the drive train, brakes suspension, tires interior and body mods, upholstery, paint and putting it all down on paper in detail, and looking into prices and suppliers, sure won,t hurt either
and of course theres the skills in wiring,welding,measuring and custom fabrication that will need to be upgraded along the way, and joining a couple local hot rod or muscle car clubes wont hurt either



if you don,t remember what a 1938 ford pick-up truck hot rod looks like I found this picture on the internet
FORD1938HOTRODPICKUP.jpg


I think a good deal of the build process will be guided by the goal you have in mind for the completed car.
having a defined plan and precise goal will save you a great deal of time and wasted effort during the build

Its up to the guy who assembles or builds an engine to verify that the machine work on any components been done correctly,
theres unfortunately a good percentage of machine shops that don,t employ people that have the skills and experience,
or the tooling to do the work correctly, or in some cases and desire or capacity to accurately measure the components accurately,
before and after precision machine works been done.
I'd bet 90% plus of the people who have a machine shop do precision work on any major engine component, like that
would have naturally assumed that the precision machine work was done correctly,
and simply assembled the engine without thinking a second about that work being done correctly.
this is one reason I strongly suggest most serious engine builders may want to have some precision,measuring tools,
and spend the time and effort to check that machine shop work you paid good money for, was in fact, done correctly ,

taking the time too verify the precision machine work was done correctly,
takes a good deal of the time required, in any engine build
(vs slapping parts together out of the box and wondering why it never quite runs up to your expectations)
and yes you probably could use the block in its current condition and find the engine runs,
and most people would never know the engines measurements were not correct or why the engine did not produce power to its full potential,
and the results might be so close that it would hardly matter ,too most car/engine owners.
but that engine block machine work ,being off specs, does not mean its been built correctly either



related threads
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-68861

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-68651

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-59253

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-51146

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-to-find-a-decent-machine-shop.800/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51843

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/machine-shop-sequencing.4460/#post-11720

related info,
yeah theres a ton of related info,
but time spent reading the links,
(a day or so in most cases)
and related,sub-links, can and usually will save you weeks of work ,
and thousands of dollars in cash wasted on the wrong parts,
and badly done machine work,
keep in mind one of the main reasons I started this web site was..
to help prevent the time and wasted effort that not knowing exactly whats needed and how to correctly assemble parts you need to build exactly what you want, TOO ACCOMPLISH, as money spent & wasted on the wrong parts or machine work being that needs too be re-done , are all too common, in most guys first few engine builds , experience from mistakes made,is an expensive teacher


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...r-basic-performance-concepts.9731/#post-52498

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-26314

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/page-2#post-48605

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tbucket-engine-project-dart-shp.3814/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...nk-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/#post-21611

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...years-now-i-want-to-sell-it.13790/#post-70731

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ilding-a-dream-or-wasting-cash.775/#post-1125

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...k-about-in-your-engine-combo.3156/#post-59958

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...the-links-you-posted-grumpy.12020/#post-57517

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-52906

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51843

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...istakes-but-learn-from-them.11333/#post-51640

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-calculators-and-basic-math.10705/#post-50173
 
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I like Truck based Hotrods Grumpy.
Rat Rod Look I like.
Its still in style.
Advantage is Low cost overall and Total Freedom to do what you want to.
No chrome, Billet Aluminium , $10,000-$100,000 parts allowed , paying shops 50,000-100,000 cash to build your hotrod NOT allowed RatRod style.
Pefect opportunity to build your Bud a Nice Pump gas BBC Grumpy.
Opportunity to earn extra $$$$ for yourself .

In the middle of the night help your Friend load up all his wifee's crap...
Throw it over a Ravine or a Highway Ditch.
 
yeah! You and I would dump that space hogging girl trash, that would never get used too,
but as we all know keeping the wife at least semi happy, much of the time, is mandatory in any marriage
so while I can strongly suggest he needs to clear the work area Its totally up to him to get it done!

what particular tools have you gentlemen purchased over the last few years,
that you have found to be either a big help in making the job easier,
or a big time saver?

I frequently go over to other guys garages to help them out with various projects and repairs ans almost always,
I find I'm forced to make a side trip back to my shop to use a tool I own,
or on a few rare occasions I get rather jealous when I see they own a few tools that I wish I owned.
that can be as simple as retrieving a floor jack,
and several jack stands so I feel reasonably safe under some guys car while ,

doing a clutch replacement in his shop or using my various welders or a mill, or hydraulic press.
(step one is always think things through and don,t do stupid stuff that can get you injured , assume that mechanical things like floor jacks can fail and that having decent lighting and a fire extinguisher handy are mandatory)
now obviously I can,t afford to buy every tool Id like to own,
and there's always going to be guys that have better tools and more skills and experience than I have in several areas of expertise,
(but thats also incentive to learn new skills and acquire better tools)
and like everyone else I buy tools and some wear out,
or break and need to be replaced.
(so I may have to buy some tools more than once)
(gives me a great excuse to upgrade quality)
but I'm always amazed at how few guys own what I consider just basic repair tools like..
a decent drill press, a work bench, with a vise,
and
diagnostic tools like, a decent 12" caliper, a vacuum/ pressure gauge,
and a multi-meter, and a timing light and,
a factory shop manual for your make year and model car.

not to mention, a basic tool like a decent set of jack stands and a floor jack,
or in some cases just decent quality vise grips and screw drivers

now a a mig or oxy-acetylene welder , and a belt sander, are in my opinion almost mandatory,
but I fully understand that if you don,t regularly do your own repair work,
those tools might not be in your garage
now maybe I'm the one whos got the wrong concept, here,
but I learned early in the process ,of becoming an engineer & mechanic
that making mistakes is both very expensive and wastes time,
Time and cash, you could better spend doing the job correctly,
AFTER asking someone with a great deal more experience for advice,
and doing some research into what any project might require.
and that when your not sure, or might even vaguely suspect your NOT doing something correctly,
or your NOT getting the results you expect,.....

its best to STOP and ASK DETAILED QUESTIONS ,
and follow up those questions with a general question, like
" is there anything I might be over-looking ,
or any bits of related info ,you might think of,
Can, you can tell me about the tools or parts that might be useful, here,
too know about or use or suggest a better way too do this?"


related threads
(DON,T IGNORE THE LINKS AND SUB-LINKS)

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-48766

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/most-versital-shop-welder.1594/#post-50625

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-off-under-your-tree.11863/page-2#post-68027

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tool-boxes-and-chests.10357/page-3#post-69921

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/under-car-safety.26/page-3#post-59431


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/multi-meters.3110/#post-59136

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/first-mig-welder.10392/#post-43002

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-9901-affordable-engine-building-tools/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/148-0505-engine-building-tools/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/porting-can-help.462/page-3#post-67176

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/page-2#post-55610

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51843

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...op-needs-a-decent-drill-press.970/#post-50726

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hen-parts-are-not-available.11371/#post-52007

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-the-correct-tools-helps.12466/#post-62446
 
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You could use a Truck Based Dana 60 also on the 1938 Ford Truck.
3/4 Ton or 1 Ton Dana 60.
Many had Factory 4.10 gears.
Posi units used are easily found for the Dana 60 & very affordable.
 
I suggested he look through the linked threads ,
and order any and every.
low cost and free parts catalog available

having done some similar projects, totally rebuilding a car and doing engine swaps, repairing and modifying body work and replacing the suspension and exhaust and I know the time and effort required is amazing and just the small parts tools required, the welding skills, trips to get supplies, and time spent looking for the harder to find parts and waiting on simple stuff like getting the correct welding rods and shield gas, sand paper, paint,fasteners,solvents disposable bits, nozzles , brushes and hydraulic fittings, and mask filters tape, adds up far faster than those of us that have not done this type of work could ever understand, then theres always the minor screw-ups that need to be corrected,and the time spent looking for the small part or supplies you purchased two months ago On sale for 1/2 price, you bought in bulk that you can,t locate until the day after you give up looking for them, and buy more! and the people that drop by with projects you really can,t avoid that screw up your (free time)
crazy.gif
sm_laughing.gif

on the PLUS SIDE, if your a tool junkie like I am theres always an endless list of new or better, tools you can easily justify buying... just no cash to do so!
its unfortunate but theres always going to be some transaction where machine shops or suppliers drop the ball or screw up.
Ive certainly had more than what Id consider my fair share of less than ideal transactions and dealing with machine shops over the decades,
and you can,t even in most cases point out the ones you should always go too...or avoid simply because many will go for hundreds of transactions,
having hundreds of happy customers.. then a couple totally #$%^& up , totally uncharacteristic transaction's,
and following with a "we just don,t really give a S4$%^& attitude and less than quality parts shipped."
then followed inexplicably reverting back to the normal customer relationship.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...on-picking-a-shop-to-do-work.5053/#post-28837

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/machine-work-costs.3169/#post-8452

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-55314

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-41064

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-52466

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-dated-signed-and-pictures.4786/#post-12990

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...oo-deal-with-a-machine-shop.14454/#post-750
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-shop-with-reasonable-prices.4566/#post-12172

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...etting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-415

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...building-your-dream-car-combo.1162/#post-2379

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/planing-your-engine-combo.1482/#post-3711
 
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I would be looking for a 427 -454 BBC Engine core known to be Good.
 
2-Bolt main caps are Just fine for the Street.
Work Racing too if HP & Torque is not Sky High.
 
that or a 500 caddy, 455 buick or pontiac, or 440 dodge, or 392 hemi, or 460 ford.
I can get 500 hp plus, out of any of those engine with not too much effort
 
I have an intrest in real early Pontiac engines right now.
But they are hard to find and parts are unique from later engines.
Just for Nostalgia reasons & just different .

Caddy 500 V8 be Nice Grumpy.
Show me how you build headers.

Buick 455's are Super Rare here in Illinois .
Like Pontiac 455's are in Florida .
 
I love the Olds 455 myself but where do you find one
There used to be 10-50 Olds 455's in my local salvage yards at any given time.........1983 -2008 -2009....
That that Bam Bam Bama Basterd showed up & Invented cash for Clunkers...........All disappeared overnight.
In Private hands now....Keep Looking.
 
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