anodes

[grumpyvette]

I got asked if USING anodes, in an engine is a good idea?
electrolysis can rapidly cause damage, use of a 50% anti-freeze/50% water coolant mix and at least two good separate engine grounds to the cars frame helps but get out a multi meter and test for voltage in coolant, (more info in links)
any time you use aluminum heads on an iron block (ESPECIALLY WITH COPPER HEAD GASKETS )
but any head gasket on an iron block with aluminum heads, or an aluminum intake, or aluminum, water pump,
is going to have issues over time,
your forced to use ANODES and replace those ANODES regularly as they are designed to sacrificially corrode rather than the more expensive components, and replace the anti freeze at least every 12-18 months or the result you got (parts in contact with coolant_ corrosion,) is very common
Sacrificial anodes are used to protect metal structures from corroding. Sacrificial anodes work by oxidizing more quickly than the metal it is protecting, being consumed completely before the other metal reacts with the electrolytes.
ITS NOT ONLY A GOOD IDEA
ITS MANDATORY IN SOME APPLICATIONS!

if you were for example to use
aluminum heads
on a cast iron block
with a copper head gasket
(something IVE done frequently)
its MANDATORY,
if you use an ALUMINUM AFTERMARKET RADIATOR ITS MANDATORY,
IF YOU USE AN ALUMINUM WATER PUMP<
ITS MANDATORY, to use ANODES FOR DURABILITY , ANY USE OF DIS SIMILAR METALS MAKES IT MANDATORY that you use anodes and a 50% antifreeze coolant solution to significantly reduce electrolysis and the damage it WILL CAUSE!
you need to realize you've effectively built a battery if you don,t use both several ANODES and at least a 50% or higher concentration of anti freeze as the dissimilar metals will cause the aluminum, to disintegrate over time without the anodes and high anti freeze concentration.
Ive been building engines for over 40 years and yes I fully agree some head gaskets suggest installing them dry....I spray both sides wet with copper coat and have yet to have problems with them sealing, keep in mind the vast majority of head gaskets don,t "LEAK" they get damaged by "OVER HEATING" or "DETONATION DAMAGED" or " effected by coolant corrosion" then when they fail, its blamed on the "HEAD GASKET FAILURE" THATS A BIT LIKE BLAMING FLYS for CAUSING GARBAGE
I rarely use anything BUT dead soft pure copper head gaskets sprayed damp, with copper coat spray, on both sides, installed on my engines, Ive YET to have any leak in over 18 years Ive used them

now these embossed copper gaskets (above) are supposed to be the best choice, but Ive never seen or used those

these flat copper gaskets are supposed to be used with a wire fire ring with a groove machined into the block,Ive been successfully using these gaskets

without those for decades by just spraying them damp with copper coat and have never yet had one fail

when installing almost any head gasket, but especially with a copper head gasket be sure to put on two wet even coats on both sides of the head gasket and install and torque while the copper coat sprays still damp
(mostly because they are re-usable after a good cleaning) and I pull the engine apart frequently for cam swaps and other mods
if you use a copper head gasket on an iron block with aluminum heads without anodes youll have severe corrosion issues
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdk-c ... 7AodUncAfw

http://www.martyranodes.com/content/mar ... anodes.php

http://www.rotometals.com/E-Series-E-0- ... s-s/65.htm

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/accessories/ ... anode.html

https://www.cgj.com/2013/07/02/aluminum ... ptibility/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ow-to-reduce-its-likely-hood.9816/#post-49741

https://www.amazon.com/Northern-Z17700-Sacrificial-Anode-Rad/dp/B005ASS0NQ

ITS ALMOST MANDATORY on cars with aluminum heads on an iron engine block and an aluminum radiator.
IF you pull your intake and find its starting to corrode badly in the coolant ports, or your aluminum heads are ,as well,that's an indication of a problem. usually the result of a bad engine ground or anti-freeze that needs to be changed out every 2 years MINIMUM, or an electrical problem.
that's far more common on BOATS, especially those used in salt water or where the battery grounds attached to an intake bolt, but in cars its usually a sign of a BAD ENGINE GROUND and LACK of a RADIATOR ANODE, and running just water as a coolant vs ANTIFREEZE & COOLANT in the radiator, ideally in about a 50%/50% mix .Antifreeze REDUCES cooling efficiency slightly compared to distilled water but it significantly reduces corrosion
Antifreeze has a high viscosity so its flow rate is less than water and it doesn't transfer heat as well either.
A 50/50 mix is just a compromise between cooling efficiency and frozen or corrosion in your engine block, heads or radiator.
one other factor often over looked is the anti-freeze concentration, your going to ideally use a 50% water 50% antifreeze mix that balances cooling efficiency with corrosion resistance, if you run strait water electrolysis is very likely, almost certainly going to cause major problems, but if you run strait anti-freeze you'll run 15-20 degrees hotter as strait anti-freeze does not transfer heat as effectively BTW, A BAD GROUND can also cause the pilot bearing on a manual trans to show damage IF both the trans and engine are not grounded to the frame and the battery to the same frame

heres an old post

I got asked if anodes are a good idea?
well, when you run an aluminum performance cylinder head on an iron engine block with pure copper head gaskets, and aluminum radiator ,like Ive been doing for many years, those anodes are mandatory, and yes they do work and prevent or at least slow electrolysis a great deal

naturally you'll need to use the anodes in the block vs the radiator with a plastic radiator like some cars have, and if you use components like an iron block, aluminum heads and copper head gaskets use of several anodes is MANDATORY

http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101/how-to-test

http://www.performancemetals.com/anodes/AnodeFAQs.shtml


http://www.flex-a-lite.com/accessories/ ... anode.html

http://www.bmcno.org/RadCap.htm

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/...10101&sku=anode&searchbtn.x=16&searchbtn.y=12

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=9769


anodes are easy to find at larger marine supply stores and you can cut some to fit.
https://www.westmarine.com/engine-anodes

https://www.amazon.com/Northern-Z17...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=DRQX2RHJS9100ZF2H8CH

http://www.boatzincs.com/engine.html

http://www.boatzincs.com/engine-siz...MIjc7mjeyv2wIVBQaGCh1rCgq3EAQYASABEgIIpvD_BwE

IDEALLY theres ZERO MEASURABLE voltage! and with both a decent frame to engine ground and battery to frame ground theres seldom much voltage in the coolant, but having a transmission to frame ground in addition is a good idea as Ive seen that help also, a loose ground causes lots of flaky/intermitent problems

Determining the levels of EME present in the cooling system is very easy. All you really need is an ultrasensitive voltmeter. Simply remove the radiator cap, stick the positive probe into the cooling system, and ground the negative probe to the radiator. With the meter dialed down to the lowest voltage setting, take a reading of the total amount of electrical volts present in the cooling system. The reading should be somewhere BELOW 0.01 volts, if its not you NEED to find out where the grounds loose or an extra grounds needed and add an anode
running low anti-freeze concentrations like nearly all water,hurts the engine also, especially if its not distilled like from a hose where its got a higher mineral content so it conducts current better.
ANTI FREEZE needs to be replaced every 2 years or so and the RADIATOR FLUSHED of the crud that tends to accumulate, to keep it free of the stuff that tends to settle out and clog the passages. and to prevent the water acting like an electrolyte in a battery.
adding an ANODE can help.

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=74
COOLING SYSTEM ZINC ANODE, FITS IN RADIATOR IN PLACE OF PETCOCK

the ORANGE and GREEN anti-freeze most of us use are sometimes NOT compatible and if blended , they over time form a sludge that clogs the passages, THEY SHOULD NEVER BE MIXED

adding an ANODE tends to slow the Corrosion, and having a good engine ground also tends to prevent or at least delay freeze plug and radiator corrosion problems.

 

[grumpyvette]

ok, theres an excellent chance that the average engine has at least minimal coroasion internally due to the ENGINE being connected to the electrical circuit, (especially if the engine block and heads are a differant material(iron block/aluminum heads) and the block is grounded to the negitive battery ground and the starter to the possitive terminal with that starter grounded to the block, and a quick check with a digital volt meter will usually show a slight voltage flow from coolant too the block.
adding an ANODE thats grounded to the block usually reduces the corrosion to the aluminum components in contact with the coolant.
adding an ANODE tends to slow the Corrosion, and having a good engine ground also tends to prevent or at least delay freeze plug and radiator corrosion problems running just water in a radiator allows it to act like the acid in a battery if your running aluminum parts like water pumps,radiators and heads on an iron block.
yes the antifreeze is designed to MINIMIZE the Electrolysis that occures with "two dissimilar metals in cotact with an electrolyte." and the coolant by design is a POOR conductor, but a quick check with a digital volt meter will usually show some minimal voltage flow, now that may or may not become critical, to durability but its usually present and an anode will tend to help durrability and slow the alumium degrading, if youve ever looked closely at the t-stat housing after its been run for a few years youver probably seen it.

theres no rule about or preventing you from having two or more or two different anodes either, but the first line of defence is having good grounds to the engine and frame and a good coolant that tends to prevent galvanic action, running less than a 50% solution of anti-freeze or letting it sit unchanged for more than a year is foolish

heres info from a ford test recommendation notice
Testing For Electrolysis

Check for voltage in the cooling system by touching the negative contact of a voltmeter to the battery ground or a known good ground and suspend the positive lead in the coolant, making sure it is in contact with the coolant but not touching any metal part of the radiator or cooling system. Both AC and DC voltages must be checked. Vehicles normally have DC voltages; however, a faulty engine block heater or faulty diode in the alternator can produce AC voltages. It is understood that coolant is lost due to heater core failure but try to obtain a voltage reading on the old coolant in the engine block before addition to or replacement of. To keep more coolant from exiting the heater core clamp off heater core lines and measure coolant in the engine block. Try not to dilute the original coolant with new coolant during testing if possible.

Determine whether coolant condition is acceptable.
Remove both cables from the battery and ensure they do not contact each other or the vehicle.
Touch negative lead of voltmeter to engine ground and positive lead in the coolant.
NOTE: POSITIVE TEST PROBE IS IN THE COOLANT FOR TESTING.



Check the voltage in the cooling system. If less than or equal to 0.2 volts (V) OK, reconnect battery cables and proceed to Step 2.
If greater than 0.4 V, flush cooling system thoroughly.


If your reading this and don,t think anodes work or that theres an excellent chance theres a small flow of voltage in the cars coolant that tends to cause problems in some cars and without getting into why,,they work or don,t to any great extent, or the voltage source because 99% of the people reading this could care less,

Ill just ask this question, do you think an anode screwed into the block, intake manifold etc, has any beneficial effect on the average engine?

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/anode.html

and If you say no! how do you explain the fact that the anodes IVE installed in dozens of cars , usually tend to degrade over time in most of those cars, personally I think its mostly due to bad grounds and guys adding water from the garden hose to the radiator if the coolants low but Im curious as to your view???


http://www.coolingzone.com/index.php?read=88&magid=32&onmag=true


READ THIS
http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/electrolysis.html
Avoiding Galvanic Corrosion


When selecting components for your cooling loop, you must consider their material compatibility as well as their individual performance. Although an aluminum cold plate paired with a copper-tubed heat exchanger might meet your thermal requirements, it is not a reliable cooling circuit. Copper and aluminum have widely different electrochemical potentials, so when they are combined in a cooling system, galvanic corrosion is likely. Galvanic corrosion (also called dissimilar metal corrosion) erodes the metal, causing leaks over time.

In a cooling loop, metallic materials in electrochemical contact can form a galvanic cell, or battery (fig. 1). In a galvanic cell, when two metals with different electrical potentials are connected, there is a potential difference across them. The metal with the higher electrical potential becomes the anode, and the lower, the cathode. A current will flow from the anode to the cathode. The anode dissolves, or corrodes, to form ions. These ions drift into the water where they either stay in solution or react with other ions in the electrolyte. This process is known as galvanic corrosion.



Fig. 1. Galvanic cell, or battery

A galvanic cell requires three elements:

Two electrochemically dissimilar metals,
An electrically conductive path between the two metals, and
An electrolyte to allow the flow of metal ions.
In a typical liquid cooling circuit, the plumbing provides the electrically conductive path, and the aqueous coolant provides the electrolyte. In the copper/aluminum scenario mentioned above, the aluminum is the anode, the copper is the cathode and the cooling fluid is the electrolyte. Over time, the aluminum corrodes as it dissolves into the water.

The galvanic corrosion rate depends on the electrical potential between the two metals. The Galvanic Series (fig. 2) orders metals based on the potential they exhibit in flowing seawater. The most reactive are at the top of the table, and the least reactive at the bottom.[/B][/I]

obviously, if you have coolant getting mixed with the oil theres a coolant leak into the engine, you could be dealing with a blown head gasket, leaking intake gasket, cracked cylinder head, cracked block, loose valve guide or other issues so you need to tear it down and locate the source of the coolant getting into your oil before it does major damage, which it will rather quickly

 

[grumpyvette]

http://www.radiator.com/article-radiator-problems.html

http://www.radiatorinfo.com/radtip.html

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/accessories/ ... anode.html

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=74

No-Rosion Products Technical Questions and Answers

http://www.ehow.com/how_2189727_prevent ... iator.html

http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/Mercha ... Code=RC-30

http://automechanics.wordpress.com/2008 ... -vehicles/

http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticl ... index.html

BTW most of the products that are designed to plug small leaks in the coolant system don,t help water pumps and can cause bearing problems in those water pumps in a few cases or restrict coolant flow thru the block or radiator passages and tend to leave particulates and sludge in both.

match any two different materials, in an engine such as aluminum heads on an iron block, or aluminum heads and a copper head gasket, etc., add a battery voltage and coolant or water and you better have an anode and high concentrations of anti freeze,or youll see corrosion every time

 

[g10van8772]

I ran across this chart showing the galvanic corrosion "series" left is less active right is more active.

http://www.corrosionsource.com/handbook/galv_series.htm

Looking at that chart, I'm wondering, Zinc is more active than the most active aluminum alloys, but just barely. I thought I remembered that the larger the separation between the dissimilar metals, the faster the active metal would corrode, and less chance of the less active metal corroding. What I'm thinking, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that if the two are still fairly similar, then they will both be more anode than a third material (iron) that is significantly less active. I'd opt at this point to use magnesium as the anode and have all components protected, if the burning aspect of magnesium could be verified as minimal risk.

I did find another place for anodes, this one is rather large sized, but I think it could be bolted into the side of the heads instead of finding a 1/4 NPT opening into coolant in the engine block itself.

http://shop.torresen.com/marine_diesel_ ... ionid=5364

I THINK this is where it would fit

sorry, black on black doesn't show so well, I circled the plug location.

again let me know what you guys think.

 

[grumpyvette]

thank you for posting more quite useful additional info!
BTW IF YOU CATCH ALUMINUM CORROSION DAMAGE EARLY like electrolysis damage on the intake around the T-stat housing, it can at times be repaired if its not too extensive, obviously its best prevented with SEVERAL anodes, good ELECTRICAL grounds and a 50% anti freeze mix so it never starts
THAT IS EASILY REPAIRED BY TIG WELDING (BEST)
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3414
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3188
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=295


ALUMAWELD (GOOD)
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=851&p=1318&hilit=alumaweld#p1318
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=376

OR IN SOME LIMITED CASES

J&B WELD EPOXY (FUNCTIONAL)

btw adding this to the coolant and verifying your engine grounds to the cars frame are good helps reduce problems

All the dissimilar metals and metallic ions floating around in the water will cause galvanic corrosion. use a sacrificial Zinc anode and use of the anti-rust agent makes it less likely your aluminum heads and intake will be getting eaten around the coolant passages, and near the t-stat...

read this
http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/electrolysis.htm

heres one option that eliminates electrolysis
http://www.evanscooling.com/products/

READ THIS LINK
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...08-how-to-solve-mustang-overheating-problems/

If your experiencing a slime forming on the aluminum in the intakes coolant passages its very likely the result of electrolysis, the cure requires three different changes, made to the coolant system,
the cure requires three different changes, made to the coolant system,
the first is running a 50%/50% of distilled water and fresh antifreeze mix with the newer antifreeze formulas anti freeze should be changed every 2-3 years for max protection
many guys clean the coolant passages in the manifolds and paint them with several coats of marine hull paint before installing them on a car also

the second is INSTALLING A COUPLE ANODES in the engine

the third is making sure the engines well grounded in two places to the BLOCK, not the intake, and to the cars frame and battery

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/accessories/ ... anode.html

http://www.bmcno.org/RadCap.htm

IF your seeing corrosion/ electrolysis damage its usually low antifreeze levels ,in the coolant, or a bad engine ground causing minor electrolysis, or lack of an anode
adding a second good engine ground to the frame/battery, adding an anode to the blocks coolant passages and running a 50% antifreeze mix with DISTILLED WATER usually cures this

minerals in tap water can accelerate electrolysis damage

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=74&p=4123&hilit=anode#p4123

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=846&p=1621#p1621

http://www.berridge.com/Preventing Electrolysis.pdf

http://l-36.com/corrosion.php#g1

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesand ... 2012_o.pdf

 

[g10van8772]

Hey Grumpy, there you go, make a killing buying bulk zinc and magnesium anodes, set 'em up for multiple locations. since you would nominally need a minimum of two for protection of cooling system loop. one in radiator (since I have yet to see a body ground on them) the other in cooling paths of the engine. since largest open volume is inside the heads themselves. you now have that handy dandy drool worthy milling machine, you could make the threaded plugs, then set up the anodes to go bolt in. Since it seems there is only one place that makes anodes for car applications, you could make a killing.
Running straight water in your corvettes in theory cools the engine better, because It transfers heat more efficiently BUT...straight water acts like the acid in a battery and greatly increases corrosion,it effectively causes electrolysis and that will destroy the aluminum in the cooling system very very quickly. As electricity flows thru the block the charge travels thru the water and this allows electrons from the aluminum to be carried away with it in a chemical reaction driven by the electrical charge. The end result is an aluminum head, intake and water pump that has the water passages will be eaten thru like someone poured acid in the cooling system.....There will be pits and holes at random spots where ever there is aluminum in contact with coolant. The solution is a zinc or magnesium anode to take the abuse of the electricity much like the zinc blocks that are mounted on the hull of a ship for the same reason. There are zinc anodes that can be attached to radiator caps that drop in the radiator for those that want that extra oz of protection against electrolysis. The use of the proper mix of anti-freeze & water slows or prevents this chemical/electrical process from taking place. The only other concern is the age of the anti-freeze as that anti-freeze eventually turns acidic over time.
ALWAYS use an ANODE in the block and at least 40% antifreeze to reduce corrosion, water cools slightly better but its electric conductivity tends to allow corrosion problems that are greatly reduced with antifreeze and an anode installed

yeah this is partly in jest, found a site that had magnesium anodes, but they were more industrial sized. smallest is 1/2" diameter. and steel rod through the center. take a little off the end, cut threads on the rod, and could thread it onto a cap. just a bit nervous about the idea of sparks hitting magnesium.
here's the site I found basically bulk magnesium. the rod stuff is what I saw that had potential.... just wish I had more skills than drafting, and dollars than cents.

http://www.farwestcorrosion.com/fwst/an ... inco01.htm

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/swivel-thermostat-housing.9489/#post-34906

Anyways, thanks for the kudos earlier, still trying to get head back into old schooling. Heat transfer and fluid flow were the most fun subject I got to learn.

BTW, I have an Aluminum manifold I'd picked up for my project engine, GM 14057053 actually picked up two. one ended up being in questionable shape. got a second one and decided question was to use as anchor or landfill. electrolysis damage from not using anodes ,good electrical grounds and a 50% anti-freeze mix in coolant
ON OEM BLOCKS the head bolts extend into the coolant passages, not using both an ANODE and a 50% antifreeze coolant mix can result in thread and bolt damage and cylinder wall internal rust weakening the bore wall and reducing thickness, potentially over time causing big problems

this has GOT to be galvanic corrosion of the coolant block off at rear of engine. both sides had same indent. the good one I used was smooth all the way across.
btw any time you run a mix of aluminum, cast iron and or brass in a cars cooling system,
you NEED to run an ANODE OR SEVERAL ANODES in your cooling system AND US A 50% antifreeze coolant or youll have corrosion issues

https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/produ...MI8tOx3-a26AIVSl8NCh0rLwqBEAQYAiABEgJ7-fD_BwE

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MI8tOx3-a26AIVSl8NCh0rLwqBEAQYASABEgLrpPD_BwE

https://www.flex-a-lite.com/accessories/radiator-accessories/radiator-anode.html

read
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ant.aspx

If your getting metal corrosion its usually due too low antifreeze levels, in the coolant, or a bad engine ground causing minor electrolysis, or lack of an anode
adding a second good engine ground to the frame/battery, adding an anode to the blocks coolant passages and running a 50% antifreeze mix with DISTILLED WATER usually cures this

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TAY-20314/?rtype=10

adding an engine to frame ground strap like these copper belt type, plus the battery to frame ground you should already have helps reduce corrosion

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-32060/

adding one or more anodes helps
Zinc Anode Kit for Aluminum Radiators

Flex-a-lite has developed a new zinc anode kit part #32060 to be installed in the radiator as a replacement for the drain petcock in radiators that are equipped with a ¼” NPT bushing welded into the tank. Or it maybe installed in any ¼” NPT hole that is available in the cooling system.
READ

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/ho ... ts/1272436

http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/electrolysis.html

Electrolysis in the Cooling System

Electrolysis in an automotive cooling system can be hazardous to the lifespan of metal and in particular aluminum. It is often left unnoticed until it is too late and leaks have already began forming.

Electrolysis is extremely corrosive and eats away the inside lining of aluminum parts, especially thinner parts like aluminum heater cores. It is said that a current of 0.5 or more will actually corrode a cast iron block. It takes much less current to damage an aluminum engine block and many of its components. It's more like 0.15 to 0.20 volts. Use both A/C and D/C settings for this test and check specifications. Aftermarket systems sometimes require additional grounds.

It is caused by current passing through the coolant medium between the metal components in the cooling system. This sometimes happens after adding an aftermarket part or breaking a ground, and can be fixed by simply replacing the ground. Either way to correct this type of electrolysis the part or connection causing the excess current must be found and repaired. Check the manufacturers manual for specifications and procedures.

The second and most common type of electrolysis is when the coolant breaks down or the ratio between the coolant and the water is predominantly water. As the coolant wears it acts like a catalyst for electrical current. This small amount of electrical current may be flowing through the coolant corroding the different metal (especially aluminum) parts.

Over time coolant breaks down and becomes slightly acidic and must be replaced. Changing and flushing the coolant will correct this second type of electrolysis. Coolant manufacturers add ingredients to their coolants. Coolants are typically either EG and made with ethylene glycol or PG "propylene glycol". Propylene glycol is considered less toxic than ethylene glycol. Different manufacturers add and recommend different amounts of silicates and chemicals designed to reduce corrosion in there vehicles system.

This does not mean that straight ethylene glycol coolant is best, because water is actually beneficial in maintaining proper engine cooling. Most manufacturers offer a pre-mix somewhere around 50/50.

 

[grumpyvette]

Radiator failure information from Denso & NRMA.

Premature radiator failure-/causes.
Corrosion ¬- Internal and External.
Erosion - Internal and External.
Stray Current - Electrolysis Internal- External.
Mechanical Damage - External.

Stray currents cause premature corrosion failures in radiators, water pumps and thermostat housings as well as premature ageing in coolant hoses. When we say premature, we mean in as little as three months.
NRMA Insurance did a front end repair on a VW Golf in which the radiator was replaced, three months after the owner took delivery it was found that the new radiator was so badly corroded it was irreparable. The radiator core was dismantled and showed evidence of extensive electrolysis and mixed coolants.
Do’s and Don’ts:

•Never mix different brands of coolants or inhibitors. Mixture of incompatible coolants can induce radiator fouling and can reduce the corrosion protection of the coolant. Always flush out the cold coolant.

•Never use coolants that foam as this will lead to increased cavitation erosion of the water pump. Shake the bottle of coolant then let it stand for 5 seconds, if the foam has broken and the fluid has returned to normal then it probably won’t foam in the cooling system. If the foam has not broken after 5 seconds then it might pay to find another product.

•Never under treat a cooling system as the incorrect ratio of coolant can actually increase the corrosion rate to above that of plain water.

•Only use the best quality water. De-mineralised is the best, never use bore or spring water.

•Always check for stray electrical current in the cooling system.

•If the vehicle is within the new vehicle warranty period, always use the manufacturer’s recommended coolant as to do otherwise could void the warranty should the cooling system fail.

•Always use the service stickers supplied by the coolant manufacturer to avoid any confusion as to which type of coolant is in the system when a top up is required.

•Always dispose of used coolants correctly. All used coolants will contain heavy metals irrespective of their claims of being environmentally friendly.


“Whilst not wanting to pick on any one area of the automotive industry, our own experience tells us that many vehicles we have examined for electrolysis and chemical corrosion damage are those that have had recent paint and panel repairs. If you suspect that a radiator has failed from electrolysis and you can’t find any apparent reason for it, look for signs of recent repairs (keep in mind that the problems can exist right from the time the vehicle was manufactured)

If you spot repairs, be wary of earth wires that:

1. Are not connected.

2. Are loose, corroded or insecure.

3. Earth wire mounting points have recently been painted, thus paint may be down the threaded holes causing poor earth contact.

4. Whist you are monitoring the presence of stray voltage in the cooling system, have a fellow worker operate the brake lights, parking, head and high beam lights and check for any increase in voltage readings in your multimeter

5. Also, turn on as many accessories as you can to load the vehicle’s electrical system whilst monitoring stray current.

6. Check battery cables and mid cable securing points for corrosion and tightness.



Testing for Stray Current:

Using your multimeter, connect one lead to negative side of battery and then with a test probe immersed in the coolant, make sure it doesn’t touch the core and for a proper reading the probe must stay in the same place in the neck at all times. If a current measuring above 50mv is present you then have to start looking for the source.
At this point, we have to say that if you have found a problem relative to the stray current, CHANGE THE COOLANT. Unfortunately we have found with some brands of coolant that their chemical composition does not allow them to dissipate the charged oxygen hat has resulted from stray current, so if you are unaware of the coolant in the system, flush it and replace it.
Common Sources of Stray Current.

•Ford Laser: Multi earth plugs located at the front of both chassis rails, Check the thermo fan earth circuit.

•Ford Falcon: Main battery earth cable fitting at the engine block. Wiring harness fitting at the right front inner guard.

•Holden Commodore: Main battery earth cable fitting at the engine block. Rear stop light wiring harness earths. Earthing point located behind right front headlight.

•Nissan Pulsar: Brown coloured earth cables attached to right side rear cylinder head bolt. ECU earth. Earth circuit for thermo fan.

•Early Hyundai’s: Multi earth wire point located at left front inner guard, cut this off and replace with eyelet connectors.

•Sigma/Magna: Main battery earth cable (both ends)

•Nissan Skyline/Pintara: Air conditioning fan earth circuit, change from condenser mounting to adjoining radiator support panel threaded hole.

Unfortunately, in recent times we are coming across more and more cooling systems and engine failures associated with chemical corrosion. It is a problem common with poor quality inhibitors, low dosages of inhibitor, but we see many where different brands of inhibitors have been mixed and the results are catastrophic.

The mixing of different brands can degenerate into the formation of a chemical cocktail, which can strip metal away with amazing speed.
The internals will show a dark Grey or black discolouration. You can also try removing the radiator cap and feeling the top of the core tubes, they will feel flexible, even soft to touch.
Where this indication is present you may also find items such as thermostat housings and water pumps showing signs of cavitation.

Where chemical corrosion has occurred, quite often the cooling systems components such as the thermostat housing, water pump, heater and coolant pipes will be badly discoloured.
Chemical corrosion can also lead to the formation of small hard deposits of metals and rust within the radiator or engine block causing hard to find overheating problems. These deposits can be very hard to shift if they have been building up over a period of time and as such, become firmly lodged in coolant tubes and within water passages, etc. Keep in mind that 1.6mm of corrosion build up on aluminium causes as much heat retardation as 10.4mm of cast iron.

Mixing of coolants and even poor quality coolants can cause foaming and it’s the introduction of oxygen that leads to the formation of air bubbles that create their own version of cavitation erosion.
The bubbles or vapours, which result from the chemical activity, continually explode against the engine’s hot spots and if not caught early can completely destroy an engine. The exploding bubbles of air cause a hammering effect on the metal gradually eroding away that area and eventually forming a small pin hole. Often a large piece of metal will simply disappear from within the engine. Cavitation can be particularly harsh on cylinder liners and their seals and at different points of the cylinder head and gasket.



Stop Press
Don’t assume that fitting an earth wire directly to the radiator core is a fix all, We did a test on an aluminium core and the wire actually increased the current.






Stray Current explanation & testing procedure:

In simple terms stray current is a chemical/electrical process which causes an electrical current to pass through a vehicles cooling system fluid. It can cause rapid damage to radiators and will indirectly cause problems with other engine components such as water pumps, thermostat housings, etc.
This is brought about when one or more items such as a cooling fan or headlamp develops a problem in its electrical circuitry. This causes an electrical current to seek out an earth path via the radiator core through the engine coolant.


•Remove the radiator cap and run the engine to operating temperature. Do not rev the engine as this may cause the coolant to aerate. Note: Removing the cap will reduce the boiling point of the coolant. This may result in electric cooling fans not operating on some vehicles,

•Switch ON all electrical items including Items such as a mobile phone, rear demister, driving lights, etc.

•Switch an analogue multi-meter to a scale of 5 volts DC or less. Ideally the meter should be capable of reading millivolts. Do not use a digital multi-meter, as its internal operating characteristics are not suitable for this test.

•Place the negative lead of the multi-meter on the battery negative post.

•Dip the positive lead into the coolant without touching the filler neck or the core of the radiator

•A reading of more than .05 volts indicates the presence of a potentially damaging stray current passing through the coolant. Ideally the voltage should be 0 volts, however it is highly possible that some voltage level will be detected

•If no voltage or a very low voltage is detected, carry out the same test as in point 4, but with the ignition OFF.

•If voltage is detected, isolate the circuit by turning all electrical items OFF and switching each circuit ON individually.


Caution:

Refilling a cooling system with coolant will itself generate a current that lasts approximately twelve hours.
This can be avoided by refilling a repaired vehicle, for example, with clean water and then proceeding to test for stray current.






Cooling System Flushing Procedure:

Because coolant/inhibitors from different manufactures have different chemical compounds, which may adversely react if mixed, it is important that you DO NOT create a chemical cocktail within your cooling system by mixing different brands of coolant/inhibitor. Even though the coolant has been drained from the system, the inhibitors remain affixed to the cooling system components and must be chemically removed, using a quality alkaline flush.

Procedure:

1. Ensure the cooling system is sound and free from leaks and check all components for wear and condition. If need, replace worn components.

2. Choose a quality alkaline cooling system flush (500mL. Per 12 Litres). Observe the instructions on the container.

3. Replace the radiator cap and run the engine at operating temperature for 15 minutes in 4 cylinder vehicles and 30 minutes in 6 or 8 cylinder vehicles. (Ensure the vehicle heater is turned on).

4. Drain and rinse the cooling system including the overflow bottle and heater core. At this point a power flushing machine may be used if this equipment is available.

And/or:
4a). Rinse the system with clean water until you are convinced that the only fluid remaining in the system is clean water- RINSE- RINSE- RINSE (this may need to be refilled and drained a number of times).

5. Refill the cooling system using clean water (demineralised or distilled water), to perform a stray current check.

6. Do not add coolant at this time until a complete stray current check has been performed (refer to stray current procedure). The presence of stray current will deteriorate the cooling fluid quality immediately.
Always ensure you select a coolant/inhibitor that meets the vehicle manufacturers recommendation or one that meets AS 2108-97 Type A or Type B whichever is recommended as being in support of the vehicles manufacturers recommended coolant performance standard.

7. Ensure the correct rates of coolant/inhibitor is used, as overdosing or under-dosing will have a direct affect on the performance of the cooling system and the life of the components including the radiator.

8. Only after the vehicle has been cleared of the possibility of stray current (electrolysis). Rebuild the cooling fluids by first adding the selected product then topping up with clean water (demineralised or distilled water). NOTE: NEVER MIX TWO BRANDS OF COOLANT!

9. Mix a portion of the coolant for the owner to use for topping up coolant level.

Dispose of Waste Fluid Correctly.


Sorry for the mega long post guys but hopefully you found this useful and has cleared up some of your queries regarding electrolysis, etc.

 

[grumpyvette]

how to test engine coolant with a multimeter - Google Search

BTW that wire hanging down with the ANODE on the end IS electrically connected to the cap and the edges of the cap grasp the radiator core forming a electrical connection you can verify with a multi meter, the rubber gasket has no effect. and yes having more than a SINGLE ANODE IN USE IN YOUR COOLANT SYSTEM IS A GOOD IDEA , many guys install them in the intake or block where a threaded hole allows access to coolant.
a cars coolant system is a closed electrical environment, unlike a boat (an open electrical environment) where you need an anode on the keel or prop shaft where the sea or lakes is the electrical conductive fluid "electrolyte"
(where the anode must be bolted to metal)

it shows as a TOTAL LACK of electrical knowledge of conductivity and electrolysis and how ANODES FUNCTION

(btw if you doubt there's a small electrical current in the coolant use a multi meter, stick the neg lead on the battery and the positive lead in the coolant with the radiator cap off, its very common to find you have a very small electrical voltage showing)(ideally less than 1/3rd volt)

BTW ANODES ARE MANDATORY with copper head gaskets

multi merter to check coolant voltage - Google Search

or as one of my old mechanic mentors stated ,
BTW he was damn smart and semi retired in the late 1960s when I knew him
(HE WORKED AS AN ENGINEER FOR CHEVY/and NASCAR in the 1950-60s)
ANODES work like ROLAIDS they protect the engine from HEARTBURN, (CORROSION)
but require replacement about once a year if you want max protection.

the anode on the caps sitting totally submerged in the coolant in the radiator which IS the electrical conductive fluid "electrolyte"
much as a battery is filled with mild ACID and the plates are submerged in that acid while in an ideal world the anode would be screwed into the lower radiator housing, from a conductivity the sacrificial properties and function would not be affected.
simply because both the ANODE and PROTECTED surfaces are bathed in the same electrically conductive fluid

have you ever watched them chrome plate parts?
they hang Copper or Nickle plated parts in a conductive medium (fluid )and hang a large block of chromium on the tank, and pass electricity in the fluid parts that are not touching the chrome, electrically attract the microparticles of chromium and they coat the copper or Nickle surface and build , being transferred through the liquid. well anodes work in a similar fashion, but they dissolve/oxidize , rather than coat the other surfaces,
remember AUTOMOTIVE ANTIFREEZE generally contains CORROSION INHIBITORS so anodes are not dissolved/ sacrificed as rapidly as they would be in pure water

Sacrificial anodes are used to protect metal structures from corroding.
Sacrificial anodes work by oxidizing more quickly, than the metal THAT THE ANODE is protecting
, being consumed completely before ,the other metal reacts with the electrolytes.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Flex-a-lite/FLX32060.html?feed=npn&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google | Shop - Accessories and Parts&adgroupid=86797745660&campaignid=1672411894&creative=404001588947&device=c&devicemodel=&feeditemid=&keyword=&loc_interest_ms=&loc_physical_ms=9026987&matchtype=&network=g&placement=&position=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjcT5wrKhgQMVyDHUAR22fAWXEAQYAyABEgKzmfD_BwE

below is a typical radiator ANODE ROD, notice the brass part that threads in the radiator is holding the USUALLY A ZINK or MAGNESIUM ANODE
that's because the brass serves as a plug that won't dissolve while that silver part (ANODE) is suspended in the coolant thus the ANODE DOES OVER TIME thus protecting the inner radiator and aluminum intake and steel or aluminum block or water pump.

http://www.rondavisradiators.com/tech.htm

Testing for electrolysis in cooling systems

A voltmeter capable of reading both AC and DC currents is required to test cooling systems. The meter needs to read zero to the maximum voltage of the system being tested in tenths of a volt. The meter leads must be long enough to reach between the coolant and the groundside of the battery. An ohm function of a voltmeter is very helpful to pinpoint areas of resistance in as electrical system that will cause an electrical current to ground through the coolant rather than the engineered electrical circuit.
Procedure

Attach the proper meter lead to the ground side (FRAME GROUND NEG)of the battery, negative-to-negative or positive-to-positive.

Install the second lead in the coolant touching the coolant only.

Read the DC and AC voltage with all systems off. If a block heater is present, also take a reading with the heater turned on. If an automatic battery charger is present, as a standby system, also take a reading with this system running.

Read the DC and AC voltage with the electrical starter engaged.

Read the DC and the AC voltage with the engine running and all systems turned on: lights, coolers, fans, heaters, air conditioning, cell phone, two-way radio, including the phone and radio on both standby and transmit.

The above procedure will test a complete system except for an electrical current, which can be generated by the rear end transmission. This is particularly true with air bag suspensions, rubber pad suspensions and rubber-mounted transmissions. Any current generated will travel up to the drive shaft to ground through the engine coolant. Grounding rear ends and transmissions is strongly recommended.
keep in mind if your not using one or more ANODE's in the cooling system, along with antifreeze, AND SEVERAL GOOD ENGINE GROUNDS, it is almost 100% sure to have corrosion issues after 4-6 years ,especially with an aluminum water pump on an iron block, if you ever use just water as coolant it won,t last nearly that long, its always worth the time to check for voltage in the coolant, Ive seen aluminum intakes and water pumps basically turn too useless corroded trash in less than two years on improperly grounded engines using water alone as coolant

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cleaning-out-older-radiator.15827/

Voltage of zero to .3 is normal in a coolant of cast iron engine. Such an engine will be destroyed with time by .5 volts, and engine manufactures are reporting .15 volts will destroy an aluminum engine.

The current will be AC if the problem is due to static electricity.

If the coolant shows an electrical problem with all the equipment turned on; turn off one system at a time until you finally turn off the system that stops the electrical current. When the current stops, this will indicate the electrical system causing the problem.

Be partially careful of starters. They can cause as much damage to a cooling system as a direct connection to an arc welder. This is due to the amperage present.

Always change the coolant if a current is detected. The electrical current will destroy the protecting chemicals in a properly inhibited coolant.



The following are failures that are not manufacturer defects and therefore not covered under warranty.



Improper Flush - Cooling systems require a through flush of the radiator, engine, overflow tank, hoses and heater core, failure to do so will lead to mixing coolants and contaminates and creating a deadly cocktail for the cooling system.



Corrosion – The correct coolant and distilled water mixture prescribed by the coolant manufacture of choice must be maintained. Water with high trace elements of minerals will create problems for aluminum radiators not normally seen in copper radiators.

Electrolysis – Electrolysis is the systematic removal of the protective layer on the inside of the radiator tubes due to improper grounding. Electrical grounding problems can stem from poor installation of aftermarket accessories or incorrect vehicle collision damages.
Galvanic corrosion, same thing when you put the stainless wheel arches on your truck, then your amazed when they rot off in a year,
same reason those aluminum tailgates on trucks corroad around bolts or other dissimilar metals attached to the gate.
from wiki
Dissimilar metals and alloys have different electrode potentials, and when two or more come into contact in an electrolyte, one metal acts as anode and the other as cathode. The electropotential difference between the dissimilar metals is the driving force for an accelerated attack on the anode member of the galvanic couple. The anode metal dissolves into the electrolyte, and deposit collects on the cathodic metal.
The electrolyte provides a means for ionmigration whereby metallic ions move from the anode to the cathode within the metal. This leads to the metal at the anode corroding more quickly than it otherwise would and corrosion at the cathode being inhibited. The presence of an electrolyte and an electrical conducting path between the metals is essential for galvanic corrosion to occur.