assembling and installing connecting rods/pistons

Discussion in 'Rotating Assemblies' started by grumpyvette, Sep 24, 2008.

  1. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    look closely at the connecting rods one edge of the main bearing are is beveled noticeably more than the other that beveled side faces away from the rod its paired with because it matches the slight radiased bevel of the crank journal
    many builder class pistons are designed to go in, in either orientation ,and have both the valve notches and piston pin offset that are identical but most performance pistons have a dot or an F stamped on the crown indicating the side facing the front of the engine, naturally the rod big end bevels face the crank counter weights on each pair and the non-beveled big end faces the matched rod
    think carefully about both the initial cost and the structural strength of the engine block you select, the OEM blocks used in production car engines will RARELY accept a .030 plus over bore with out having one or more cylinders having marginally thin bore walls, this results in inadequate bore to ring sealing if its in the wrong area and promotes stress cracks. A .060 over bore in a SBC is rather commonly pushing that bore wall thickness up to or over a reasonable limit so you need to sonic and magnetically check the block for cracks and wall thickness.
    you could easily dump $500-$1500 into machine work on a block that won,t last more than a few months under high stress if its not carefully checked PRIOR to the machine work being done.
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06VXC1FPL/ref=nav_timeline_asin?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1





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    read the links don,t skip them, youll likely save a great deal of cash and time knowing whats involved

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/engine-balancing.3900/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...k-after-a-cam-lobe-rod-or-bearings-fail.2919/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-wrist-pins-one-really-over-looked-part.978/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/engine-block-cylinder-wall-thickness.976/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/why-build-a-383-vs-a-350.715/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/blocks-from-summitt-or-comp-products.10174/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-why-doesn-t-anyone-ever-ask-or-check.11532/

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=E76F9F78364354FD222DE76F9F78364354FD222D
    http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp ... ting_rods/

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    cleaning threads before assembly is always a good idea
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    check manufactures tech guide info
    http://arp-bolts.mobi/p/tech.php?page=3

    http://arp-bolts.mobi/p/tech.php?page=2

    http://arp-bolts.com/
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    VERIFYING CLEARANCES GREATLY REDUCES WEAR AND DURABILITY ISSUES
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    it should be rather obvious that youll need to know the exact distance the piston deck sits at TDC ,above or below the block deck surface and the valve notch recess or pop-up dome volume of the piston to do accurate quench or compression calculations

    http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-tra ... r-623.html
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    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-1 ... /overview/ $248
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-1 ... /overview/ $186
    yes you can find non-name brand rod bolt stretch gauges from about $50-$80

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    https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-t...easuring-rod-bolt-stretch-vs-torque-with-arp/

    http://www.performanceenginetech.com/connecting-rod-bolts-stretch-vs-torque/

    https://www.hotrod.com/articles/using-rod-bolt-stretch-tool/

    http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/49258-rod-bolt-torquing-stretch-info/


    https://ecatalog.mitutoyo.com/Spindle-Attachment-Tip-C1129.aspx


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    ARP rod bolts are set up to use a stretch gauge with both ends of the bolt pre-machined for the gauge the bolt packaging from ARP,comes with the correct length the bolts are supposed to reach under the correct pre-load tension, in the instructions OR its available on their web site
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    most guys are familiar with use of a torque wrench to tighten rod bolts to the correct preload, but while this gets you very close its not as precise as a rod bolt stretch gauge,
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    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11029&p=48839#p48839
    having consistent clamp loads are mandatory for proper assembly
    notice how the rod bolts come close to the cam bearings and cam lobes, as the pistons reach top dead canter in the bores, this clearance must be individually checked and should be no less than about .060 (generally you cam use a LARGE plastic tie-wrap

    https://www.amazon.com/BuyCableTies...D=41U9CtmwOuL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail
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    placed between the cam lobe and connecting rod bolts or connecting rod shoulder areas to check clearances as the soft tie-wrap will not damage the cam lobe while you verify clearances)you must install the timing set and index the cam correctly to get a valid clearance , as the cam lobes rotate and at some point they can be incorrectly indexed too hit the rods, while they would not if correctly timed.
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    if you wonder why I suggest using SCAT (H) beam style cap screw connecting rods vs stock or most (I) beam designs this picture should show the increased cam to connecting rod clearance.
    don,t assume anything! when you assemble the connecting rods and pistons there is ALWAYS some minor differences in dimensions,in piston pin height and rod length, VERIFY QUENCH DISTANCE TO THE BLOCK DECK, so youll want too, try to match the slightly shorter rods to the pistons with taller pin locations so the average quench distances is a bit more consistent

    one factor to keep in mind is that rods typically have a side that rides against its matched companion and a side thats BEVELED for clearance on the crank journals radias EXAMPLE
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    notice the top rods non-beveled side that faces the matching rod is up, but on the lower rod the the beveled side that faces the crank counter weight is up on the lower rod
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    the 80MM-120MM tool fits all chevy V8 engines
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    BTW I recommend THIS TYPE of piston ring compressor (below)as the type in the video can and occasionally does allow the rings to pop out and jam, or break far more frequently .

    the picture lacks detail, but the interior of the compressors tapered, you tighten to a slide fit on the piston diam. and the rings compress fully as they are entering the cylinder entrance and only expand after entering the bore.


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    BTW when you go to buy a ring compressor....this type works far better than the others

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    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO-66766&N=700+115&autoview=sku

    Proform 66766 $31
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-piston-pin-height-compression-height.5064/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-wrist-pins-one-really-over-looked-part.978/


    if you find the rotating assembly is more difficult to rotate than you expected, you may want to verify some clearance issues that get over looked at times,
    theres also some, other potential issues,
    theres a slight potential for the piston wrist pins too not rotate effortlessly in the piston pin bores ,

    that may add to the difficulty in rotating the assembly in the block.
    the piston rings must have vertical and back clearance in the piston ring grooves

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    Piston Ring Groove Clearance

    Pistons are grooved to fit rings that seal the cylinder’s compression and allow for lubrication of the cylinder walls. Piston rings come in a set. There are two compression rings. The top ring is affected by the most cylinder compression pressures. The second compression ring reinforces the top ring. The third ring down is the oil ring. It controls lubrication between the piston and cylinder bore.

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    Place the new ring into the top piston groove, and then place a feeler gauge into the gap between the new ring and the upper land. Move around the pistons groove and obtain a few measurements. Compare this reading to specifications. If this reading is too much and the gap is too large, the piston must be replaced. The top ring takes the most compression. This causes the ring to slap against and wear the lands in the piston groove.
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    and of course the pistons must have the correct piston too bore clearance. and connecting rod can only be installed facing one direction
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    youll be surprised at how much easier they slide into the bore if you BOTH pull/guide and push the pistons into the cylinders rather than just beat them in with a hammer handle, it takes some practice but a few taps to get them moving with a fist, while pulling and guiding the rod into its journal is usually all that necessary with a well oiled piston and that type of ring compressor.
    IVE dunked my piston/ring assembly's in a can of MARVEL MYSTERY OIL just before installation with a ring compressor and have never seen the slightest indication of problems either on ring sealing getting the rings broken in, or on tearing the engines down later for inspections

    KEEP IN MIND

    any ring compressor design you use regardless ,of the design MUST have its lower surface kept firmly in contact with the block surface and parallel to the bore to allow the rings to smoothly transition from the inner surface of the compressor to the blocks bore, and IDEALLY the compressor internal diameter will be marginally smaller in internal diameter that the cylinder bore the pistons sliding into from it!
    http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/EPQ410_10-18.pdf
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    FOR YOUR OWN GOOD< READ THE SUB LINKED INFO


    http://www.kb-silvolite.com/assets/kb_installation.pdf

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2795&p=8966#p8966

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=5064&p=14370#p14370

    viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814&start=240

    http://www.connectingrods.net/connectin ... tretch.php

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3759

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11029&p=48839#p48839

    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Item/38 ... rings.aspx

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2795

    https://www.uempistons.com/installation ... lation.pdf

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3540


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    when in doubt call the PISTON manufacturer and ASK!

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3897&p=26602#p26602

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509&p=28226&hilit=hone+plate#p28226

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=10213

    http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... ce_basics/

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852&p=1812&hilit=resistance+rotation#p1812

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2726&hilit=plastigauge

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5078

    http://www.stockcarracing.com/techartic ... index.html

    http://www.circletrack.com/howto/1815_c ... to_04.html



    http://arrc.epnet.com/autoapp/9102/9102 ... SEMBL1.htm

    http://www.corvette-restoration.com/res ... lation.htm

    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... index.html

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=8745&p=30913#p30913

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3540
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    http://www.pawengineparts.com/shoppingc ... ?catid=206
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    naturally youll measure the bearing journals
    one factor to keep in mind is that rods typically have a side that rides against its matched companion and a side thats BEVELED for clearance on the crank journals radias EXAMPLE
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    notice the top rods non-beveled side that faces the matching rod is up, but on the lower rod the the beveled side that faces the crank counter weight is up on the lower rod
    rod-grinding
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    on some stroker applications SOME rods need to have the bolts ground for cam lobe clearance
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    bearings AND connecting rods have an inner facing side and outer side the inner side facing the matching rod has far less edge clearance because they don,t need the radias that is required for the edge of the crank journals
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    notice the top rods non-beveled side that faces the matching rod is up, but on the lower rod the the beveled side that faces the crank counter weight is up on the lower rod
    notice how one side of the bearing holding section has a radias (left)(GOES TOWARD CRANK COUNTER WEIGHT) but the opposite sides flush (right) (FACES MATCHED ROD)
    ok lets look at a few things, first , if you look closely at your connecting rods you'll see that one side has considerably more bevel ground on the inner edge of the connecting rod around the bearing than the other side does, to side with that bevel ground on it is to provide clearance for the radius ground onto the crankshaft where the crank throw meets the counterweights like you mentioned, that side of course goes out away from the other rod, to side with far less pronounced bevel is the side where the two connecting rods meet, and ride against each other during normal engine operation normal clearance there is in the area of six to 15 thousands of an inch. When the two connecting rods are correctly torque in place and a feeler gauge is fitted between them to check the maximum clearance.
    Now a small block Chevrolet the valve placement or valve layout is in this order on a normal head, E I I E E I I E , the letter (E) of course representing exhaust and the letter (I) of course representing intake your Pistons will have to be inserted into the cylinders matching that layout, this will mean there will be two left and two right Pistons on each cylinder bank, if there is a dome on the Pistons it will go towards the outside of the block, when the machine shop installed the Pistons on the connecting rods, they should have been set up with four of the Pistons set up with the exhaust valve notch on the Pistons facing towards the bevel on the connecting rods and four of the Pistons set out live the intake valve side of the Pistons facing that bevel, lets look at the first two cylinders, cylinder number one is the front left forward facing forward look at the diagram per cylinder layout any
    on that Piston both the bevel for the Crank Journal that provides bearing clearance and the exhaust valve notch would be towards the front of the engine, but on the next cylinder number two, on the opposite side of the engine. That Piston would have the bevel on the connecting rod facing the rear of the engine, but the exhaust valve notch would be facing the front of the engine, now let's look at cylinders three and four, cylinder number three, would have the bevel on the rod of course facing forward but the exhaust valve notch facing the rear of the engine, on cylinder number four you would have the bevel on the connecting rod facing towards the rear of the engine, and the exhaust valve notch facing towards the rear of the engine, now let's look at cylinders 5 and 6 cylinder number five, bevel forward exhaust forward, cylinder number six exhaust forward but bevel towards the rear for cylinders number 7 & 8 on cylinder number seven, exhaust out notch towards the rear, bearing bevel towards the front of the engine on cylinder number eight bearing bevel towards the rear of the engine and exhaust out towards the rear of the engine
    keep in mind that some non- standard head / port layouts can potentially change the piston notch layout
    you¢ll also need to make sure youe piston ring end gap is correct, that the piston rings have the correct side facing upwards that the bearings are installed with the correct clearance, and coated with assembly lubricant, that the piston to cylinder block deck clearance is correct ,that your quench distances are correct, and that after you degree in the cam that the piston to valve Clearance is correct. Youll also need to be careful that you don,t hit the connecting rod or rod bolts to the crank journals potentially causing any damage during the installation, and its normal to oil the rings and piston with a lite machine oil during the installation.
    Ive personally found that the piston ring compressors that work best are this type,

    this type is far easier to line up to the block surface at a slight angle that allows the rings to partly pop out from under its lower edge just as the rings leave the lower edge of the compressor and enter the cylinders bore, now Im not saying you can,t do it, just that its far easier to do it correctly with this type of ring compressor.IVE dunked my piston/ring assembly's in a can of MARVEL MYSTERY OIL just before installation with a ring compressor and have never seen the slightest indication of problems either on ring sealing getting the rings broken in, or on tearing the engines down later for inspections

    http://www.tpub.com/content/constructio ... 24_423.htm

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    always protect the connecting rod journals from getting scratched during the rod assembly process, a 18" long section of 3/8" or 7/16" inside diam. rubber fuel line can be pushed over rod bolts , after being looped 180 degrees around the rod journal on the crank, if the rod bolts extend down from the rod or a 18" section of 7/16" fuel line with a u shaped section of 5/16" thread rod that's 24" long, bent in the center over a 2.5" section of pipe so the ends remain parallel and even in length can be used as a handy tool so that 3" of the thread rod extends from each end, you then cover all but the last 1" on each end with plastic electrical tape and place the ends thru the rod bolt holes, and thread on a nylon washer and a nut finger tight, can be used as a tool to draw into place a rod on the rod journal if you use cap-screw rod designs

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    basic rod bearing assembly
    1. Clean the bearing surface of all the connecting rods and connecting rod caps and closely inspect them, in an ideal world they have both the upper and lower should be engraved or stamped so, they can,t get mixed.

    2. Clean upper connecting rod bearing and lubricate the bearing face with clean engine oil and moly assembly lube.

    3. Clean lower connecting rod bearing and lubricate the bearing face with clean engine oil and moly assembly lube..

    NOTE: Align the tabs on the connecting rod bearings with the tab grooves in the connecting rod.

    4. Install upper connecting rod bearing in connecting rod, so the bevel on the bearing matches the bevel on the rod and tabs align.

    5. Pull the connecting rod and piston assembly into position against the crankshaft. using both a ring compressor, and a rod guide after verifying the ring gap and ring side clearance, ring indexing and the rings are installed with the proper side facing upwards

    6. Install lower connecting rod bearing in connecting rod cap.

    7. Install bearing cap in position on connecting rod. Ensure that the identification numbers you previously are stamped on the same side, of the rod and rod caps.

    8. If you have Type A connecting rods, install two bolts and two nuts. If you have Type B connecting rods, install two bolts. The torque is very important. verify the correct torque, in this section of the site,and with the connecting rod manufacturer

    9. Repeat Steps 1 through 8 for the remaining connecting rod bearings.
    THIS BEAM STYLE TORQUE WRENCH IS THE TYPE TORQUE WRENCH YOU WANT TO CHECK ROTATIONAL RESISTANCE


    as to the rotational smoothness, be aware that, all assembly lubes and oil on blocks bore the rings ride over and all bearing surfaces, coated with oil and assembly lube provide a surface shear tension that must be broken before the crank turns,
    so its not un-usually for the rotating assembly after the pistons and rings are installed, too require lets say 35 ft lbs to get the assembly too start too spin ,but only 15-26 ft lbs to keep in rotating , (low tension rings provide less drag) you can generally call the piston ring manufacturers and they should know approximately what torque reading on the crank snout,a socket and a torque wrench will require to have the engine assembly rotate with their rings installed.
    a crank snout, turning socket,but if that short block assembly,takes over 35-40 lbs to start it rotating once its assembled without cylinder heads attached, you've got serious issues, like cam lobe to connecting roods hitting or a connecting rod facing the wrong way on the crank journal, or the wrong size bearings, or the crank journals not the right size, badly polished or not round
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    that's why you'll need a torque beam deflection torque wrench to check that

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2020
  2. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    read thru these related threads, posted below, youll find a good deal of info, on installing pistons and rings.

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509&p=12277&hilit=gapping+rings#p12277

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/#post-43385

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-wrist-pins-one-really-over-looked-part.978/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/can-i-get-it-polished.9214/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/engine-balancing.3900/

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=5454

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...piston-to-bore-clearance-on-your-block.14251/

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4630

    https://mobiloil.com/en/article/car...o-assemble-an-engine-fitting-rods-and-pistons

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-one-really-over-looked-part.978/#post-79095

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2795

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2837

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=8744&p=30912&hilit=cleaning+piston+grooves#p30912

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3897

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=588&p=869&hilit=hone+plate#p869

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1168

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1797&p=7233#p7233

    http://www.kb-silvolite.com/news.php?ac ... ad&N_id=27

    http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... index.html

    http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles ... index.html

    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0 ... index.html

    http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... index.html

    http://www.kb-silvolite.com/assets/auto ... ctions.pdf

    http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... index.html

    http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... index.html

    http://www.kb-silvolite.com/article.php ... ad&A_id=56

    http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... index.html

    http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... index.html

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    ring ends must be, correctly gaped, cut parallel and de-burred before installation
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    http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/impp-1110-piston-anatomy-tech-knowledge/

    https://goodson.com/products/gas-porting-tools

    these tools come in various ring sizes ,(but the various piston diameters are not as critical as ring width, it should be obvious that you MUST USE the tool that places the drilled gas port at the correct place in the upper ring groove roof and you damn sure better not drill deeper than the rear edge of the ring groove or youll destroy the piston
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    while these professional ring filing tools ,(LINKED BELOW) would be great to have on hand,
    during your engine assembly
    , the price makes owning one as a hobbyist unlikely
    early in this thread theres pictures and links to the manual piston ring filers
    and if your very careful you can use a cut-off wheel on a dremel tool


    yes as always theres cheap,functional, and theres expensive precision ring filers

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    if you have oil ring expanders with the plastic bits,they are there to prevent you from over lapping the ends of the oil ring expander, theres some oil ring expander s that are vertical ,some horizontal, but all have the ends butt , none over-lap
    ideally the pressure above the piston gets behind the top compression ring and increases the force holding the ring face to the bore surface, noticabl;y more than the ring tension alone can do.
    BTW GAPLESS PISTON RINGS HAVE TWO PIECES THAT EACH MUST BE GAPPED< THE IDEA IS THAT THE TWO GAPS IN THE SET ARE ON OPOSIRE SIDES OF THE PISTON GROOVE

    your going to need decent feeler gauges

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    here is where you, or your machine shop can screw things up on ring to bore seal, you need to have the cylinders bored and honed to the correct size specified by the manufacturer of the pistons,after MEASURING THE PISTONS to verify their size per the piston manufacturers instructions, then gap the rings per the ring manufacturers instructions, when you hone the bores,get and use block deck hone plates, during the hone process , keep in kind you want to use the same (STUDS OR BOLTS) the machine shop used and the same torque settings they used when the cylinders were honed with deck plates or the distortion of the bore and ring seal won,t be identical (exactly round)or ideal, keep in mind the piston side clearance must match what the piston manufacturer states.

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    Ive used several sets of total seal gapless rings in several engine builds over the years, they usually have a slightly better leak down test result , but I can,t really see and measurable power or durability increase
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    youll need the info in this link, ABOVE and its sub links ALSO
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    MEASURING RING END GAP
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    now I work mostly on BBC engines and I built a custom ring square tool , out of cheap and easy to find PVC plumbing pipe adapters, (look at the pictures, rick posted,)remember it does not need to be a perfect bore diam. match too square the rings , but of course it must fit down the bore, too use when gapping rings,and on the big block engines you can build and use a custom tool like this without reducing the diam., but Rick went the extra step and built a very similar tool for his SBC projects engine

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    http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/lis24000.html


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    measure carefully as the piston groove depth and back clearance must match the rings you use or youll have major problems
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    The stock ring filer just had too much end play in the shaft that holds the abrasive disk. So I stopped
    by the local bearing supply and picked up a couple of bushings. If I wanted to wait it might have been
    easier to buy a metric size bushing, but they weren't in stock so I bought the fractional size. The only
    thing wrong is both the OD and ID were not correct. So I reamed the hole in the aluminum frame to accept
    the larger OD of the bushing and turned the shaft on a lathe to fit the ID of the bushing.

    I used JB weld to make the bushings permanent so I left it sticking out far enough to keep the shaft from moving to
    the left and the locating pin would keep it from moving to the right. Since I turned the OD of the shaft down, I
    had to drill and tap the 5mm x .8 metric threads, moving it closer to the centerline so it would intersect the
    groove again.

    There is NO end play now, much nicer !!!


    Stock Ring Filer
    The pin was moved closer to the centerline of the abrasive wheel shaft.

    Finished Ring Filer


    Edit on 11/09/2011


    I wanted to see if theory and reality were close when it comes to the gap needed on the left stop pin of the ring filer to correct the angle filed on the ring end such that they would be parallel. I knew I couldn't do the math, but I could use Microsoft Visio and let it do the math for me.

    I did the drawing to scale so that I could move the ring over until it's CENTER-LINE lined up with the right side of the grinding wheel while also touching the RIGHT stop pin, then measure the gap. I did this for two bore sizes so I could see how much difference the bore made. I used a 4" bore and a 4.5" bore for this test. The difference was only 0.005", hardly worth taking into consideration.

    The LEFT STOP PIN needs to be 0.35" to 0.36" in diameter or you could replace it with a pin of 11/32"(0.35437") or 23/64"(.3593"). Dowel pins don't seem to come in those sizes, the only thing I've found so far is "Drill Rod" which would be hard to cut. Or you could do as Grumpy has suggested above and slip some copper tubing over the 1/4" stop pin that is already there.

    You can purchase the drill rod for $5-7$ for a 3 foot length from Fastenall.
    http://www.fastenal.com/web/search/prod ... evyx&Nty=0
    http://www.fastenal.com/web/search/prod ... evyw&Nty=0



    BTW
    if your un-aware, most rings have a DOT on the upper surface to indicate which side goes up , if they don,t the inner edge is sometimes beveled, or stepped and the wider gap or stepped recess faces up to allow high pressure gasses , from the combustion chamber to push it outwards

    http://www.amazon.com/KD-Tools-850-Diam ... 0002STSMG/
    [​IMG]
    this type (ABOVE) handles many applications but the cheap versions are a P.I.T.A. to work with

    [​IMG]
    BTW when you go to buy a ring compressor....this type(ABOVE & BELOW) works far better than the others, but its specific to a very limited range in bore size applications

    [​IMG]

    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO-66766&N=700+115&autoview=sku

    Proform 66766 $31

    [​IMG]
    #525 is a 220grit hard stone & pretty coarse.
    It is what I consider a "production rebuilder finish" & not what I would finish any bore with especially a performance one but it will work with cast iron or chrome
    #625 is a 280grit hard stone & mid range suited to moly rings

    400-500 grit stones are sometimes used after a 280 grit hone to just prep the surface briefly before final clean-up and moly ring install
    [​IMG]
    http://www.enginehones.com/lislehones.html

    http://www.goodson.com/store/template/d ... 93a1b07466

    http://www.wayfair.com/Lisle-Hone-Engin ... 49-IJO1028.

    [​IMG]
    BTW when you go to buy a ring compressor....this type works far better than the others

    [​IMG]

    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO-66766&N=700+115&autoview=sku


    related info, threads and sub-links, you should read carefully

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-and-basic-piston-ring-info-youll-need.509/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-piston-to-bore-ring-seal.3897/#post-17109

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...on-ring-info-youll-need.509/page-2#post-77252

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-and-installing-connecting-rods-pistons.247/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/flex-hone.9538/#post-72178

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ling-rings-in-piston-grooves.9490/#post-34908

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/piston-to-bore-clearance.4630/#post-30835

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ore-clearance-on-your-block.14251/#post-72471

    remember to dip the piston and rings in high quality oil just prior too or before assembly I,ve used MARVEL MYSTERY OIL FOR DECADES
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    this style ring compressor below has a nasty habit of not keeping the rings evenly compressed and not seating evenly on the block , Ive used them but the type above is much easier to use
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    https://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/d...liable_press_fit_of_high_performance_bearings
    Dr. Dmitri Kopeliovich

    [​IMG]


    [paste:font size="3"][​IMG]

    The contact pressure also produces a friction between the bearing back and the housing surface which contradicts the friction generated by the journal rotating in the bearing (ML). The torque of the friction force formed between the bearing back and the housing MH prevents the bearing from shifting in the housing.
    High performance bearings working at heavy loads, high rotation speeds and increased temperatures should be installed with a higher contact pressure. This provides better heat transfer and secures the bearing more tightly in the housing.

    to top


    [paste:font size="3"]crush height.
    Crush height is the difference between the outside circumferential length of a half bearing (one half shell) and half of the housing circumference [1] measured at a certain press load.
    Fig.2 illustrates a device for measuring crush height.

    [​IMG]

    The tested bearing is installed in the gauge block and pressed with a predetermined force F. The force is proportional to the cross-section area of the bearing wall.
    The optimal value for crush height is dependent on the bearing diameter, housing material (modulus of elasticity and thermal expansion), housing dimensions and stricture (rigidity), and temperature.

    to top



    [paste:font size="3"][​IMG]

    However the calculation results did not take into account a temperature increase. The crush height is measured at a normal ambient temperature, but the bearing together with its housing heat up during bearing operation. If bearing and housing are made of materials with different coefficients of thermal expansion, the effective crush height (interference) will be different from that measured at room temperature.
    The most significant difference between the thermal expansions of the bearing and housing is realized when the housing is made of aluminum.
    Fig.4 shows the effect of temperature on the contact pressure of the bearing (CR 807XPN) in an aluminum housing.

    [​IMG]

    The graph shows that the required level of contact pressure in the heated aluminum housing may be achieved only if the crush height is not less than 0.009”.

    Another factor affecting contact pressure is the rigidity of the bearing housing, determined by the housing dimensions and shape. Fig.5 presents the calculation results of the effect of the housing diameter on the contact pressure of the bearing in housings made of three different materials. The calculations are made for crush height ch = 0.005”.
    The graph shows that the steel housing provides the required contact pressure even at a diameter as low as 1.25 of the bearing diameter. The contact pressure 1500 psi in a titanium housing is achieved at its diameter greater than 1.4 of the bearing diameter. The diameter of an aluminum housing should be at least 1.75 of the bearing diameter.

    [​IMG]

    A tighter contact between bearing and housing may also be obtained by an increase of the thickness of the bearing steel back.
    The effect of bearing thickness on contact pressure is shown in Fig.6.
    The required minimum value of 1500 psi pressure in a steel housing is achieved with a bearing whose steel back is thicker than 0.047”, whereas the bearing back thickness in an aluminum housing should be at least 0.077” and 0.057” in titanium housing.

    [​IMG]

    Thus, the design of crush height in a high performance bearing should take into account not only severe operating conditions (heavy load and high rotation speed), but also the housing parameters (material, shape, dimensions), bearing dimensions and the ambient working temperature.

    However, there are limits to the minimum amount of crush height as well as the maximum amount of crush height. When a bearing with excessive crush height is installed and tightened in the housing, the material in the region of the parting line exerts an inward displacement which reduces the gap between the journal and the bearing surfaces in this area. The change of bearing profile at the parting line region results in the formation of peak oil film pressure, which may cause fatigue of the bearing material [3].
    A bearing affected with fatigue cracks in the area of crush relief is shown in Fig.7.
    The compression stress in the bearing was 72,300 psi which is greater than the maximum value of 65,000 psi.

    [​IMG]

    to top


    [paste:font size="3"]regime of hydrodynamic lubrication [4]. The value of hydrodynamic friction torque developed using King high performance bearing CR 807XPN was calculated assuming the use of 15W50 oil, and a wide range of rotation speeds, oil clearances and eccentricity.
    The calculations were performed using software developed by King Engine Bearings. This software is capable of calculating loads, friction forces, minimum oil film thickness, oil temperature rise, energy loss, oil flow rate and other thermodynamic, dynamic and hydrodynamic parameters for each bearing of an engine at any angular position of the crankshaft.
    The maximum value of hydrodynamic friction torque ML resulted in a value of approximately 2 ft*lb.
    The torque MH required to spin the bearing in the housing is about 100 ft*lb (corresponds to the contact pressure of 2630 psi).
    Thus the safety factor is about 50 - sufficiently large enough to prevent spinning. Even if lubrication turned to mixed regime, the journal friction torque will be much lower than the torque keeping the bearing from spinning in the housing.

    to top



    [paste:font size="3"]Conclusions – RadiaLock™ Protocol

    • High performance bearings should be installed with a higher contact pressure that provides better heat transfer and prevents the bearing from shifting in the housing.
    • The minimum value of crush height providing the required level of contact pressure in high performance bearings may be calculated.
    • Lower stiffness of aluminum and titanium housings, and their thermal expansion rates that are different from steel, should be taken into account in the calculations of contact pressure.
    • At the same amount of crush height, a greater contact pressure is obtained in bearings with a thicker steel back and in more rigid housings (housings with a greater outside dimension).
    • The torque required to spin a bearing in its housing should be at least 50 times greater than the torque developed by the hydrodynamic friction.
    • Excessive crush height causes an inward displacement of the bearing in the region of the parting line, which may result in increased localized pressure causing fatigue of the bearing material in the crush relief area.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2020
  3. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    general rule for N/A engines is ring gaps should be between, .0040--.0045 per inch of bore dia.

    example

    a 4" bore like a 350 x .004--.0045 = .016-.018 ring gap


    heres a chart and links to tools for referance

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=5454

    http://kb-silvolite.com/article.php?action=read&A_id=32

    http://www.hanzenginehouse.com/HANZENGI ... nggap.html

    http://www.muller.net/sonny/crx/rings/index.html

    http://www.tavia.com/cat16.html#2

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/repair-or-replace-350-crank.14181/

    http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... 2_74772_-1

    http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... 9_-1_10693

    http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... 2_55122_-1

    http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... 1_-1_10693

    http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... _841806_-1

    you naturally take the time and effort to use clean components and tools during assembly and try to work in a reasonably dry and well lighted location with the engine up on an engine stand,and frequent use of lint free wipes, soaked in marvel mystery oil helps, as it keeps the metal surfaces from rusting or collecting crud, Ive generally found that if your cover the engine with a large plastic bag and duct tape, when your not actually working on it, its not been a factor worth worrying much about, in a reasonably clean shop with no open doors to let in wind carried debris.
    heres some pictures I found on the web that may help
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    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DRT-BAG-ENGINE/

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1009/

    CHECKING TRUST BEARING CLEARANCE

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    when building a 383 stroker ,you need to check rod to cam and rod to block clearances, you should have not problem grinding .080 or so clearance on the lower bore wall edge with zero chance of getting into the water jacket passages or water jacket at the area of the yellow paint indicated in that picture, most people forget to check that area
    obviously youll want to check all 8 cylinders and remove the cam and clean carefully before re-installing the cam.

    https://goodson.com/blogs/goodson-gazette/inspecting-measuring-the-pistons-pins-connecting-rods

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/measuring-crank-bearing-journals.5478/

    https://www.motor.com/magazine-summary/performance-perspectives-connecting-rod-inspection/

    https://www.dragzine.com/news/tips-for-sizing-your-connecting-rods-correctly-from-callies/

    https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/51488/measuring-crank-and-rod-journals




    [​IMG]
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    https://www.msdiscounttool.com/catalog/product_info.php?csv=gg&products_id=104046
    [​IMG]
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MIwbuI4oP14AIVnrbACh1mLQA2EAQYBSABEgKanfD_BwE


    https://www.tracxtar.com/2018/07/23/engine-assembly-the-bottom-end/

    • ENGINE ASSEMBLY: THE BOTTOM END
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    AUTOMOTIVE
    ENGINE ASSEMBLY: THE BOTTOM END
    view

    By user666 / July 23, 2018
    [​IMG]

    We’ll get into the actual meat and potatoes of engine assembly: measuring main bearing clearances, measuring rod bearing clearances and checking crankshaft thrust dimensions. In the process, the crankshaft will be installed, the main bearing caps will be torqued and the bottom end will be readied for reciprocating component (rod, wrist pin and piston) installation.

    Sounds complex, but the truth is there’s nothing fancy here except persnickety measurements, attention to cleanliness and plenty of patience. Bottom line: If you can muster up the persistence for detail, you can handle the job. It’s that simple. Here’s how it’s done.

    Measuring the mains
    The first step is to measure the crankshaft main bearing journal diameters. This is best accomplished on your workbench. We use a micrometer to check the dimensions in an “around the clock” pattern on each journal. What that means is that we check each of the main journals in multiple locations.

    To properly use a micrometer, slowly tighten the spin wheel until the mic contact points meet the crank journal. Spin the bottom thumbwheel (ratchet stop) until you feel three clicks on the micrometer as it contacts the journal (keeping in mind you don’t want to scratch the journal surface either). Double-check to ensure that the mic contact points are touching the journal evenly (not cocked to one side). Lock the micrometer and check the reading. Record each reading as you go around the journal. In essence, you’re accomplishing two things: You’re checking for crankshaft main journal out of round (if the readings from different points differ) and you’re also checking the outside diameter of the crankshaft journal.

    Follow the same steps around each main bearing journal and record each set of figures for each journal. On a typical modern V8, you’ll have five bearing journals to measure on the crankshaft.

    There are two different times you can measure rod journal dimensions: right after you’ve finished checking the mains or later, once the crank is installed in the engine. If you’re confident the crank was properly machined, you can save those steps for later (which is what we’re doing here). If you’re not so confident regarding the crank accuracy, it’s best to measure it now. That way, if the dimensions are off you don’t have to go any further on the engine assembly job.

    Finally, when using a micrometer, keep in mind that heat has an effect on readings. Never carry a mic around in your pocket and don’t hold it for excessive amounts of time. Additionally, when storing the micrometer, be sure the measuring contact points are left open so that temperature variations do not stress the instrument.

    Next up, each main bearing has to be installed, and the assembled diameter has to be checked. The bearings should be cleaned and dry. We start at the front and work our way backward, beginning with main bearing number one (bearing caps are usually numbered and marked with an arrow facing forward). The idea here is to install the bearing, torque the bearing cap and measure the inside diameter of the bearing bore with the bearing installed. More detail below.

    Install the main bearings
    To install the main bearing, you’ll note there are tangs on the bearing insert (in the old days, they were sometimes called bearing “shells”). Most engines also have an oil hole in the block that coincides with the upper bearing insert. This oil hole links the main bearing to the main bearing supply machined within the cylinder block. Only one-half of the bearing set (inserts) per main journal cap will be equipped with an oil hole. It’s essential you get them right (hole in the bearing coinciding with the hole in the cylinder block-machined bearing web).

    Begin the installation with the tang side of the bearing insert. Install in the block and then push the opposite edge into the main bearing bore. Repeat the process in the accompanying main bearing cap. Be sure the bearing is fully seated. You’ll note there is a small amount of bearing insert extending past the main cap as well as past the cylinder block bearing bore. This is the bearing “crush.” When the main bearing cap bolts are torqued in place, the bearing “crushes” into the outside of the bore. This ensures the bearing does not spin or turn during engine operation. At this time, you only need to install bearings on the number one main.

    In most engines, the main bearing caps are numbered (the exception is usually the thrust bearing cap since it’s far different than any of the other bearing caps). Additionally, many main caps have an arrow that points forward: It goes toward the front of the engine. This arrangement places all of the bearing tangs on one side.

    Oil the threads for the main cap bolts. We generally use good old-fashioned SAE 30 conventional (non-synthetic) for this purpose. Install the front cap (with bearing inserts in place). Thread the bolts in by hand and then using a soft face hammer (dead blow plastic or brass), seat the cap against the block. Torque the cap bolts to the factory-recommended specification. Generally, we use three equal steps (for example, 25, 50 and 75 foot-pounds), alternating between the bolts in each of the steps. On four bolt main caps, we start on the inner caps first then work outward. This tends to tighten the bearing cap evenly.

    Check the clearances
    Using an inside micrometer or dial bore gauge, measure the bearing inside diameter. Much like the crankshaft, we tend to measure the bearings (within the bore) in several different locations. Subtract the crankshaft outside diameter (measured previously) for journal number one from the bearing bore diameter. That resulting figure is the bearing clearance. Check the figure against manufacturer specifications. If the bearings are out of spec, you’ll have to juggle bearing halves (you can buy slightly under- and oversize bearings for popular engines) to come up with the appropriate clearance figures.

    Repeat the entire process for all of the main bearings and caps. Once complete, remove all of the caps. Keep each cap and bearing intact. Leave the lower bearings in the cylinder block.

    Installing the crankshaft
    Depending upon the engine you have, it can be equipped with either a one-piece or two-piece rear main seal. No matter what format, it must be installed next. In either case, install the seal so that the lip faces inward (toward the engine). Clean the seal groove with a shot of brake cleaner and a fresh shop towel. The groove must be clean and oil free for the sealant to work properly. Apply a small amount of RTV silicone sealer on the seal groove in both the cylinder block and the main cap. Wipe up any excess (a wet finger works perfectly). Install the bottom half of the seal, or in the case of a one-piece seal, gently tap into place over the crankshaft (you can use a seal driver, but most seals easily tap on).

    Apply motor oil (the same SAE 30 oil works) to the main bearings. Alternatively, you can use engine assembly lube (shown in the photo). It sticks with more tenacity than oil, providing more protection during the initial startup. Apply a small amount of engine oil or assembly lube to the main seal lip. Lower the crankshaft into place.

    Reinstall the number one cap and the thrust bearing cap only. Seat the caps (using a soft face hammer). Install the bolts by hand, but don’t tighten.

    Checking thrust clearance
    Using a soft face hammer (plastic dead blow or brass), tap the crank nose (moving the crankshaft rearward). Install a dial indicator to read on the crank flange or nose of the engine. Using a large (clean) screwdriver or pry bar, move the crankshaft backward. Zero the gauge on the dial indicator. Pry the crankshaft forward and check the reading. Record the measurement. Next, torque the caps to specs and repeat the process. Compare the measurements. If the second reading is less than the first, there’s a chance the rear main cap shifted and the thrust surfaces are misaligned. Shift the cap and recheck. By the way, this doesn’t regularly occur, but if it does, you might have to check and shift the rear main cap a couple of times to get it right. Compare your final thrust clearance figure to the manufacturer specifications. Finally, install the balance of the caps (and bearings) and torque to specifications.

    Checking the rod clearances
    Beginning at the front of the engine, use your micrometer to check the overall diameter of each of the connecting rod journals on the crankshaft. The process is exactly the same as we used to check the main bearing clearances. Check each journal in multiple locations and record those figures.

    You can now check the rod bearing clearances. Use the same process we used for the main bearing caps: Install the bearings with the tabs aligned. You can match the numbers on the rods or check to ensure the chamfers are all on the same side and install the caps. The bearings (and caps) are aligned tang to tang (not offset). Using engine oil as the lubricant, torque the cap bolts to the recommended figure and measure the bearing ID with a bore gauge.

    Subtract the journal diameter from each of those figures to determine the clearance. Repeat the process for all of the connecting rods. Like the case with the main bearings, if the clearances are out of spec, you can often correct the dimensions by juggling bearing inserts.

    Once all of the rod clearances have been checked, you can loosen the rod bearing cap hardware, but don’t completely disassemble. You need to keep the rods and their respective bearings in order. Wrap the engine in the plastic storage bag. You’re done with this segment.

    In the next part of our series, we’ll show you how to file-fit piston rings to each cylinder, how to assemble rods onto pistons, and, ultimately, how to install all of the pistons and rods in the engine short block.

    Tools used for this part of the assembly:

    • Dial bore gauge
    • Dial indicator and magnetic base
    • Two-third-inch micrometer
    • Half-inch drive torque wrench
    • Three-quarter-inch and half-inch drive sockets
    • Seven-sixteenths-inch 12-point half-inch driver socket
    • Large pry bar
    • Deadblow hammer
    Using “Plastigage”
    If you don’t have access to a dial bore gauge (or inside micrometer set) or an appropriate outside micrometer, you can still check bearing clearances with “Plastigage.” Plastigage is a special extruded plastic thread (think of an advanced version of kid’s plastic modeling clay or Silly Putty). The difference though is the stuff is engineered so that it includes controlled crush properties. It’s available at most auto parts stores, in various different crush dimensions to coincide with the clearance figures for your engine.

    To use it, loosen the bolts of bearing cap number one. Remove the bolts along with the cap (and bearing). Wipe all traces of oil from the crankshaft and bearing surfaces (we use a paper towel).

    Next, tear off a short piece of Plastigage (it’s sold in a long, thin paper envelope). Place a section of Plastigage on the center of the crankshaft journal, oriented front to back or diagonally.

    Install the bearing cap and bolts. Torque to specifications, then loosen the bolts once more and remove the cap. You’ll find the Plastigage has crushed on the crankshaft journal.

    Using the envelope the Plastigage was packaged in, you’ll find a scale on one end. Compare the scale to the crushed Plastigage on the bearing journal. This is the clearance figure. If the clearances are within specifications, you can move forward: Clean the journal (it wipes off with a towel soaked in brake cleaner) and repeat the process for all bearing journals. You can also use the same format for checking connecting rod bearing clearances.

    [​IMG]

    The first step in determining bearing clearances is to measure the crankshaft main journal diameter. Here we’re using an outside micrometer to get the measurement. The article text offers details on how it’s done and tips on using a mic. Check all crankshaft main bearings and record your figures.

    [​IMG]
    Next, install the main bearing insert for journal number one in the cylinder block. Note the orientation. The oil hole in the bearing half aligns with the oil hole in the main bearing.



    [​IMG]
    The matching bearing insert for the main cap is installed next. Because of the need for bearing crush, the insert will seem marginally too big, and a minute portion of the insert will protrude past the edge of the cap (the same applies to the insert in the block).

    [​IMG]
    Install the cap and torque the main bearing cap to specs. Typically, we begin with the inside bolts and work outward. In addition, it’s best to use three steps on each of the fasteners in order to “sneak up” on the final torque figure.

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    With the bearing installed in the cap and the fasteners torqued to specifications, you can measure the main bearing inside diameter. Here, we’re using a B&B Performance dial bore gauge for the measurement. Subtracting the crankshaft journal figure from this measurement provides the bearing clearance. Record all measurements and repeat this process for all bearings except the rear main.

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    Before measuring the rear main bearing inside diameter, install the oil pump and torque to specifications. The reason is there is always the chance for some distortion of the cap once a heavy oil pump is installed. Here, a huge Titan G-Rotor oil pump is installed and torqued to specs.

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    Once you’ve checked all of the main clearances (and they’re all within specification), you can install the crankshaft. You can use conventional engine oil for the installation or assembly lube. Apply a light coating to the lower main bearing halves.

    [​IMG]
    Next, the rear main seal is installed. With a one-piece seal such as this, it must be slipped over the rear of the crank prior to lowering the crankshaft into the block. The article text offers more detailed info, but in this photo you can see the installed seal.

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    With all of the lower bearing inserts in place, you can gently lower the crank into the main bearing saddles. You can reinstall the rear main bearing and cap along with the first (front) bearing cap.

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    Checking the crankshaft thrust dimension is next. You’ll need a dial indicator setup to read front-to-rear movement on the crankshaft. Depending on how you choose to perform the job, the dial indicator can be set up on the nose of the crank or on the rear flange. For this job, we have access to the flange on the engine stand (it needs to be tapped with a hammer), so we set the dial indicator up on the nose. The text offers details on how this job is accomplished.

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    All of the main bearing cap bolts (or studs) can be torqued in place. We use a half-inch drive torque wrench for the job, and while we have three other torque wrenches in our tool collection, this long handle one makes torquing large numbers easy. What’s with the blue line on the outer row of bolts? It’s used to note which caps have been fully torqued. That way you can’t forget if you’re called away. We always double-check them.

    [​IMG]
    Measuring the rod bearing clearances is next. Here, the number one and two rod journals on the crankshaft are measured using a micrometer. Much like the main journal measurements, it’s a good idea to check in multiple places around the journal. This determines if the journal is in fact round. Repeat the process on all of the bearing journals and record the measurements.

    [​IMG]
    At this point, the connecting rod bearings can be installed. Note the chamfer on the bearing is designed to match the chamfer on the connecting rod. You’ll also note the bearing tangs are next to one another. If the connecting rod (and cap) is unmarked, this orientation ensures the cap is installed correctly. When assembling the engine, the chamfer faces the large fillet radius on the crankshaft.

    [​IMG]
    With the bearing installed and the cap correctly oriented, you can torque the connecting rod fasteners to specification. In this case, the GM Performance Parts connecting rods mandated 30W oil as the lubricant during tightening. Sneak up on the final figure just as you did with the main bearing caps.

    [​IMG]
    Here, we’re using our B&B Performance dial bore gauge to determine the inside diameter of the rod bearing (installed within the connecting rod). Once this figure is determined for each connecting rod, subtract the crankshaft rod journal dimension to determine the oil clearance. FYI, the best way to measure bores such as this is by way of a dial bore gauge.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2019
  4. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    keep in mind youll need to check the cam lobe to connecting rod clearances as they pass very close to each other on some cylinders at some points in thier rotation,finding out if youll need to grind clearances on the upper edge of some rod bolts needs to be verified, durring assembly,
    the answer depends BOTH on the max lift, durration and LCA of the cam and the design of the connecting rods outer profile, IE wher it sticks out and how far it sticks out away from the crank journal. its the upper rod bolt area near the crank journal that tends to hit the cam lobes on sone cylinders, and you should verify about a .060 clearance between lobes and connecting rods durring the assembly process, AFTER degreeing in the cam, I usually use a large paper clip as a gauge, if it easily passes between the lobe and the rod bolt at thier closest point thier tangent rotational arcs youll be ok.
    once EITHER the duration exceeds about 225 @ .050 or the lift exceeds about .520 in a 383 SBC youll probably have clearance issues with stock connecting rods,and the cam lobes, aftermarket (H) or SOME (I) style stroker rods with 7/16" capscrew bolts are stronger and profiled to clear and use of both a small base billet roller cam and stroker profile rods will usually prevent that .
    http://www.tennesseespeedsport.com/Scat-25700716-CHEVY-I-Beam-Rods.html
    [​IMG]

    far stronger than stock, SCAT rods with 7/16" ARP bolts (easily 200% over stock rods) cost less than having smaller diam 3/8" ARP rod bolts installed in the weaker stock rods then having the stock rods resized and polished for stress relief

    its the attention to details and checking clearance etc. and time and care taken,
    that makes the difference between a barely or average functional ,
    and a rather exceptional engine build, yes the urge to get it running is strong,
    but getting it done correctly is the goal

    [​IMG]
    READ THE LINKS

    http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/74038-polish-connecting-rods/

    http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ctrp-1012-race-engine-rebuild-tips/

    http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine...building-factory-aftermarket-connecting-rods/

    http://www.jensensenginetech.com/5-05_tech_tip.html

    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007/04/performance-connecting-rods/

    http://www.chevydiy.com/crankshafts-connecting-rods-pistons-guide-chevy-big-blocks/

    GOSFAST posted this great photo to illustrate the differance between rod designs

    [​IMG]
    it should be obvious that the connecting rod on the right has some extra clearance to the cams lobe rotation arc.

    http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/index.htm

    rods designed like the 3 SERIES generally won,t work with stroker cranks while the 2 series usually will

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    these threads have good related info

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=125

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3897

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2795

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852


    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=588


    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509


    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/can-t-find-matching-pistons.14206/#post-72131

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=976

    http://www.eaglerod.com/mosmodule/bolt_torque.html

    What Do I Torque the Bolts To?
    The first step is to identify which bolts you have. Eagle rods are offered with a variety of different bolts. Each of which has a different torque requirement. Proper bolt torque is paramount to rod strength and life. Eagle does not use "off the shelf" ARP bolts. Eagle has ARP custom make bolts to our specifications. DO NOT use torque specs for off-the-shelf ARP bolts. Here is a diagram of some important bolt identifying features.
    [​IMG]
    The following chart shows the head of the bolt, the dimensions, and the proper torque spec. Be careful! the heads of some bolts look similar and some even have the same markings. DO NOT identify the bolt by the head alone. Verify dimensions also! If the head of your bolts do not match one of the pictures below - you do not have Eagle rods! Please consult the manufacturer of your rods for proper torque specs. Their torque spec is most likely different than ours! Always use ARP moly lube on the threads and under the head of the bolt when torquing!
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    8740
    7/16"
    1.500"
    3/8"
    40 ftlbs
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    8740
    7/16"
    1.600"
    7/16"
    63 ftlbs
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    8740
    7/16"
    1.750"
    7/16"
    63 ftlbs
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    8740
    7/16"
    1.800"
    7/16"
    63 ftlbs
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    2000
    3/8"
    1.500"
    5/16"
    28 ftlbs
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    2000
    7/16"
    1.500"
    3/8"
    43 ftlbs
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    2000
    7/16"
    1.600"
    7/16"
    75 ftlbs
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    2000
    7/16"
    1.800"
    7/16"
    75 ftlbs
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    L-19
    1/2"
    1.600"
    7/16"
    79 ftlbs
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    L-19
    1/2"
    1.750"
    7/16"
    79 ftlbs
    [​IMG]
    material
    socket
    size
    under
    head
    length
    thread
    size
    torque
    CA 625+
    3/8"
    1.500"
    5/16"
    32 ftlbs
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2020
  5. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... =pro-66766 (4.0-4.090)

    http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch ... toview=sku (4.125-4.205)

    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku (4.250-4.310)

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ighter-wristpin-balance-a-heavy-piston.16513/

    http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/80516/10002/-1

    http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... ompressors
    [​IMG]
    http://www.tooltopia.com/fowler-72-646-300.aspx



    https://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Tools-MICROMETER-Machinist-Precision/dp/B000JMW4AS




    don,t forget to carefully check the piston skirt to crank counter weight clearance, it should be a MINIMUM of .080 thousands
    heres some pictures taken of an engine assembly that use a crank designed for a MINIMUM of a 6.25" connecting rod that was used with a 6.135" connecting rod


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    you can clearly see where the piston pin boss was being hit bye the counter weights, even though the builder checked one piston and found it had .025 clearance during assembly
    [​IMG]

    the result was a trashed engine with lots of damage

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2021
  6. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    heres a stretch chart
    http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechTorque.html
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Do not assume all the rod bolts will all take the same torque to get to the specified listed stretch
    [​IMG]

    SUMMIT SELLS ROD BOLT STRETCH GAUGES
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-100-9942/
    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

    heres a stretch chart
    http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechTorque.html

    heres the short version,AFTER each rods installed with its bearing on the crank, during the short block assembly process,set the stretch gauge to zero on the bolts un-stretched length, you use a torque wrench on rod bolts lubed with assembly lube too tighten each of them in several stages, tighten the rod bolts to the recommended torque then loosen them and re-tighten them a minimum of three times each, after the final torque value is reached for the third time, you check each bolt against the chart values, most will be a bit short,of the full permitted stretch value, while the bolts being measured , you can slip the stretch gauge off for a second and use the correct long wrench to further tighten them slowly and carefully too just under or up too the stretch chart limits in length, if they are not at that length due to the torque wrench stretching the bolt,this insures max clamping loads, without exceeding the bolts elastic limits so its at max holding strength for the application. cycling the bolt thru several cycles tends to make sure its firmly seated and fully stretched and tends to find problems like defective bolts, and bolt that doesn,t shrink back below the chart value when the tensions released is defective and needs replacement


    [​IMG]

    FROM ARP

    "We highly recommend using a stretch gauge when installing rod bolts and other fasteners where it is possible to measure the length of the fastener. It is the most accurate way to determine the correct pre-load in the rod bolt.

    Simply follow manufacturer’s instructions, or use the chart on page 25 of the ARP catalog for ARP fasteners.

    Measure the fastener prior to starting, and monitor overall length during installation. When the bolt has stretched the specified amount, the correct preload, or clamping load, has been applied.

    We recommend you maintain a chart of all rod bolts, and copy down the length of the fastener prior to and after installation. If there is a permanent increase of .001˝ in length, or if there is deformation, the bolt should be replaced. "

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/11 ... index.html


    a few more less expensive tools

    http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... rices.html


    IF your installing a longer stroke crank in a SBC, the first step is test fitting and carefully marking the connecting rods and block after carefully checking which rods need clearance, in most cases only two or four cylinders will require cam/rod clearance work, and the amount that is normally required too be removed is small enough that the difference in weight is so minimal it won,t have any significance in the engine balance, so grind the rod only in the potential area of cam to rod interference, only on one side, just at that one location, try hard to allow a .060 rod/cam clearance and no more, and do it in a shallow rounded depression so you don,t create stress risers, with any and all the grind mark lines only parallel to the rods long axis and then polish, the grind marks until the areas smooth with 500 grit sand paper, then clean carefully to remove metallic dust
    on many blocks all the block rails will need minor clearance work for the rods to clear the oil pan rails, and don,t forget to verify the counter weight to lower cylinder clearance,
    [​IMG]

    keep in mind the problem is easy to totally avoid simply by selecting rods designed for stroker engines,EXAMPLE
    SCAT and LUNATI both make 7/16" rod bolt rods with far stronger than stock forgings, that have cap screw rods designed for much greater clearance

    yes Im fully aware most people don,t bother to read the links and sub-links
    UNTIL they have expensive parts fail.
    but for the few people on the web site that might prefer spending less time and cash replacing expensive failed parts,

    and financing the machine shop owners vacations and paying his mortgage... I post them anyway
    theres a great deal of useful info in the links so read and take advantage of it

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... roker.html

    http://www.chevymania.com/tech/383.htm

    http://www.hotrod.com/howto/69883_strok ... index.html

    viewtopic.php?f=69&t=2145

    viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1598

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1249&p=3752&hilit=burr#p3752

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=804&p=1168&hilit=+burr#p1168

    both these pictures show a rod that was probably over or excessively ground & clearanced for most engines, careful rechecking as you rough grind,the rod, helps, take off as little material as you can to get the required clearance.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    don,t forget to verify these areas also

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://www.harborfreight.com/36-piece-3 ... 60669.html

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2019
  7. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/11 ... index.html
    ARP SUGGESTED TORQUE/STRETCH
    http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechTorque.html

    http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechTorque.html
    FROM ARP
    [​IMG]

    We highly recommend using a stretch gauge when installing rod bolts and other fasteners where it is possible to measure the length of the fastener. It is the most accurate way to determine the correct pre-load in the rod bolt.

    Simply follow manufacturer’s instructions, or use the chart on page 25 of the ARP catalog for ARP fasteners.

    Measure the fastener prior to starting, and monitor overall length during installation. When the bolt has stretched the specified amount, the correct preload, or clamping load, has been applied.

    We recommend you maintain a chart of all rod bolts, and copy down the length of the fastener prior to and after installation. If there is a permanent increase of .001˝ in length, or if there is deformation, the bolt should be replaced.

    Key Tool: Stretch Gauge

    You can easily monitor the condition of the rod bolts through use of a stretch gauge, or a micrometer for that matter. Prior to installing the rod, measure the length of the bolt in a “relaxed” (untorqued) state. Write this down. You can make up a chart similar to the one shown on this page to properly keep track of the data. When you tear the engine down for maintenance, again measure the length of each rod bolt – being careful to keep everything in the proper order. If any of the rod bolts have taken a permanent set and have stretched by .001˝ or longer you should replace the fastener IMMEDIATELY! The stretching is a sure indicator that the bolt has been compromised and taken past its yield point.

    if the stretch method cannot be used in a particular installation, and the fasteners must be installed by torque alone, there are certain factors that should be taken into account. ARP research has verified the following “rules” pertaining to use of a torque wrench:
    [​IMG]

    1. The friction factor changes from one application to the next. That is, the friction is at its highest value when the fastener is first tightened. Each additional time the fastener is torqued and loosened, this value gets smaller. Eventually the friction levels out and becomes constant for all following repetitions. Therefore, new fasteners should be tightened and loosened through several cycles before applying final torque. The number of times depends on the lubricant. For all situations where ARP lubricants are used, five cycles are required before final torquing.

    2. The lubricant used is the main factor in determining friction, and therefore, the torque for a particular installation. Motor oil is a commonly used lubricant because of it’s ready availability. If less friction is desired in order to install the fasteners with less torque, special low friction lubricants are available. With special lubes, the required torque can be reduced as much as 20 to 30 percent. It is important to keep in mind that the reverse is also true. If the torque value has been specified for a particular fastener on the basis of low friction lube, installing the fastener with motor oil will result in insufficient preload; the torque has to be increased to compensate for the extra friction caused by the motor oil.

    3. Surface finish is also important. For example, black oxide behaves differently than a polished fastener. It is therefore important to observe the torque recommendations supplied with each fastener.

    NOTE: It is possible for even the most expensive of torque wrenches to lose accuracy. We have seen fluctuations of as much as ten (10) foot pounds of torque from wrench to wrench. Please have your torque wrench checked periodically for accuracy.

    Id point out that a bit of thought as to the direction of forces when your torquing your main caps or trying to rotate your engine location will help a great deal, ESPECIALLY WITH THE SMALLER BASE ENGINE STAND DESIGNS
    more than one guy has failed to pay attention to that and placed a good deal of force on the end of a torque wrench or breaker bar and flipped the engine, off balance.....trust me when I say your first instinct is to try and catch or push the engine back as it falls and you are not going to win that contest....if 600-800lb of engines headed to the floor you better NOT get in the way, so its best to use a very stable wide base engine stand and pay attention to keeping forces along the engine block center-line.
    [​IMG]

    this picture tends to make me think this guys NOT thinking that factor thru, moving the handle, on the wrench 90 degrees could lower the engines tendency to tip.
     
  8. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=90124

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/maximizing-piston-to-bore-ring-seal.3897/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-and-basic-piston-ring-info-youll-need.509/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...bearing-studs-torque-stretch.9409/#post-34247

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/splayed-main-caps.1014/#post-12226

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/main-cap-fit-in-block.5945/#post-51651


    [​IMG]

    its usually standard practice to lightly stamp the outward facing rods and rod caps with the cylinder number they will be or are located in and a matched stamped number on the oil pan rail of the block, its also useful to stamp the main caps on one edge and a matched stamped number on the oil pan rail of the block, indicating which direction each main cap faces and its location during the original DIS-assembly process or first engine assembly to prevent potential screw-ups during later builds or refresh builds.
    just make the stamped number clearly readable but not deeply stamped as you don,t want to induce potential stress risers that might weaken the connecting rods

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    READ THRU THESE THREADS AS EACH CONTAINS USEFUL INFO AND LINKS

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=267

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2851

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=79

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1027

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=55

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1086

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2851&p=7377#p7377

    http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html

    how to assemble an engine basics on video

    covering the rod bolts to protect the crank journals during assembly or dis-assembly, by slipping opposite ends of a 24" section of rubber fuel line of the correct size to snugly fit the bolts over the exposed bolts , helps prevent crank journal, nicks/damage

    IF you use the type of rods that use cap screws , you obviously won,t have bolts exposed, but a cheap connecting rod guide tool can be fabricated from a 2 foot long section of 5/16" thread rod by slipping a section of 3/8" rubber fuel line about 20" long over the rod so that 2" of the thread on each end remain exposed, and bending the rod at the center over a 2" pipe to form a deep (U) the tips are passed over the journal and out thru the cylinder bore and out thru the ring compressor , then the rod bolt holes in the rod are slipped over the tips of exposed thread rod and two 5/16" nuts are threaded on finger tight, this will allow you to guide the rod onto the crank journal once the rings on the piston pass thru the ring compressor, while protecting the rod journal
    [​IMG]

    http://www.compperformancegroupstores.c ... Connecting

    http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/product-search/

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-6570020

    sure the earlier bore size is listed

    for those of you un-aware of rod journal sizes


    Chevy Smallblock V8 Crankshaft Journal Sizes


    Gen.I, "Small Journal"

    265...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"
    283...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"
    302...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"
    327...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"


    Gen.I, "Medium Journal", includes "Vortec" 305 and 350 thru '98
    262...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
    267...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
    302...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
    305...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
    307...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
    327...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
    350...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"


    Gen.I, "Large Journal"
    400...Mains-2.65"-rods-2.10"


    Non-production Gen.I combination, using Gen.I 400 crank in Gen.I 350 block
    383...400 crank, Mains cut to 2.45"-Rods-2.10"


    Non-production Gen.I combination, using Gen.I 350 crank in Gen.I 400 block
    377..."Spacer" or "thick" main bearings with 350 crank-Rods-2.10"


    Gen.II, "Medium Journal", includes "L-99" 265, "LT-1" 350, "LT-4" 350
    265...Mains-2.45"-rods-2.10"
    305...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
    350...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"


    Non-production Gen.II combination, using Gen.II 265 "L-99" crank in Gen.II 350 block
    302...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"


    Gen.III, includes '97-2005 "LS-1" Corvette, Firebird, Camaro
    345...Mains-2.558"-Rods-2.10"


    Corvette "ZR-1", DOHC, "LT-5"
    350...Mains-2.76"-Rods-2.10"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2017
  9. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    I get asked all the time,
    "should you re-use those stock rods, when I rebuild my 350 or when I build my 383 stroker"
    most sbc gen I stock rods are designed to be cheap, and dependable in engines spinning under 6000rpm that make under 400hp,
    this is one area where I'm simply amused at the lack of thought shown in selecting components, by some guys.
    most Chevy small block rods are VASTLY inferior in strength to many of the mid range and better aftermarket rods available.
    a 7/16" cap screw type ARP rod bolt is EASILY 200%-300% stronger than a stock 3/8" factory rod bolt and frankly, the cost & TIME to correctly modify and prep stock rods is a total waste, its almost always cheaper to buy decent aftermarket rods.
    http://www.eaglerod.com/mosmodule/bolt_torque.html
    example
    [​IMG]
    http://sdparts.com/details/gm-performan ... s/12495071

    $265 for a set of stock rods and then you should still have ARP bolts installed, polish, balance and sized your looking at easily $500-$600 or more for a set ready to run

    compared to something like this below its a joke

    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=...

    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=...


    keep in mind theres far stronger rods available if you have some extra cash,but even these are a big improvement over stock, and that connecting rods and their rod bolts are under a huge amount of stress at high rpms....one rod bolt stretching at high rpm will usually result in engine failure and its common for only the intake, valve covers, distributor, and water pump and a few other parts to be salvageable if that were to happen at high rpms...stretch a rod bolt and the piston contacts the head, or bends a valve, the rod bends, the heads destroyed, the block can be history and it can go down hill rapidly from there as fragments work their way around thru other of the moving parts as the engine locks up

    ITS not generally HP but RPMS or lack of lubrication to the bearings that kills rods, I know guys with turbo cars that have carefully reworked stock rods pushing over 700 hp but they don,t generally exceed 6300rpm, rods generally fail in TENSION when the rod or rod bolts stretch /stretches not in compression due to cylinder pressure.
    that's why the 7/16" rod bolts are so much better, as the bolts are the weakest component in most designs
    on the compression stroke the whole rod structure resists deformation on the exhaust stroke the rod bolts are playing crack the whip and the rods trying to keep the piston from pulling/distorting it maybe 25-40 thousands it takes to prevent head to piston contact, and the bearing shells from distorting ,under the load so they don,t loose the oil pressure support, if the rod elongates and hits the head or valves in valve float bad things cascade into worse things fast.
    the rod bolt cross sectional area is generally far smaller than the rod itself and if the piston compresses the rod a few thousands on the power stroke there not much effected, but let the rod stretch and bad things happen real fast.
    a 7/16" rod bolt is about 20% larger in cross section than a 3/8" rod bolt and the L19 ARP steel in the better rod bolts is easily 50%-100% stronger than the stock rod bolt steel in many cases, giving a decent aftermarket cap screw rod design a significant strength advantage

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1168

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=343

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1110

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=510

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=942
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2019
  10. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    when your setting the ring gap theres been a few changes in whats been found to work best, over the years
    for most of my 40 years of engine build experience most builders gaped the top rings for a
    Normally aspirated
    .0045 per inch of bore top
    .004-.0045 per inch of bore second (slightly tighter end gap on the second ring)
    because the second ring was not exposed to the same intense heat so it needed less gap to prevent the ring ends from touching as the heat expanded the rings and lowered the resulting end gap, remember that .0045 per inch of bore results in about a .019-.020 " end gap on the rings of a 427-454 bbc with its 4.25" bore

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    the first few rule's of GRUMPY'S engine assembly

    (1) THINK THINGS THROUGH CAREFULLY ,
    WRITE DOWN A LIST OF COMPONENTS ,

    MAKE DARN SURE THE LIST IS COMPATIBLE WITH,
    and AT LEAST SEMI-REASONABLY PRICED WITHIN YOUR BUDGET.
    FOR WHAT YOU INTEND TO BUILD AND RESEARCH THE RELATED MACHINE WORK,

    RESEARCH CAREFULLY THE COMPONENT INSTALLATION AND INTENDED USE ,
    AND POWER BAND THE PARTS WILL REQUIRE

    AND FIND AN EXPERIENCED MENTOR.

    (2) if in doubt, about how to do anything, on an engine, do some detailed research,
    find and compare at least 3-5 valid trust worthy sources info,
    read the instructions over again, several time's very carefully
    and if available watch several related videos.

    (3) if any component will not easily function as designed or requires a good bit of physical force to install ,
    or your not 100% sure your doing something CORRECTLY

    STOP, FIND OUT EXACTLY HOW THE PARTS SUPPOSED TO FIT AND FUNCTION,& WHY! YOUR HAVING PROBLEMS
    theres a reason, and you better verify your clearances are correct , and your following the instructions before you proceed.

    (4) never assume the parts you purchased can be used without carefully , cleaning them prior too,
    checking the physical condition, verifying clearances and using the correct sealant, lubricants etc.


    (5) the quality of a component is generally at least loosely related to the cost to produce it,
    and the amount of detailed research and quality machine work that went into its production.
    if you got a significant reduced price, theres typically a reason.
    it might simply be because a new improved part superseded the one you purchased,
    but it might be a far lower quality imported clone with lower quality materials and machine work.
    its the purchasers responsibility to research quality.

    (6) if you did not do the work personally or at least take the effort to verify it was done correctly and personally verify clearances

    ITS almost a sure thing that it was NOT done , correctly, and yes that mandates you fully understand what your looking at,
    and how the components are supposed to function and have high quality precision measuring tools.

    (7) ITS ALMOST ALWAYS FASTER AND LESS EXPENSIVE , AND PRODUCES BETTER RESULTS IF YOU,
    BUY FEWER HIGH QUALITY PARTS & DO THINGS CORRECTLY THE FIRST TIME

    READ THE LINKS THERES A TON OF GOOD INFO

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2837

    http://www.kb-silvolite.com/assets/kb_installation.pdf

    lately thats changed to

    .0045 per inch of bore top
    .005-.0055 per inch of bore for the second ring second

    this is the typical approach nowadays that most builders use.
    the reason for the change is that its been found that the compression, and combustion tends to build pressure between the rings and that pressure build up,tends to significantly reduce the effective seal of the top ring
    A fairly recent development with the second ring has been to open up the ring end gaps more to allow more trapped gases to escape from between the top ring and second ring, The larger second ring end gap flow area, allows any potential pres sure build up keeps the top ring from fluttering, it also allows trapped oil to escape back to the crankcase.
    greg_moreira posted this info
    "[Inter-ring pressure] is somewhat minor but all of the little things add up," says Sealed Power's Gabrielson. "The flow gap on the second ring should be twice the flow gap on the top ring. That doesn't necessarily mean the ring gap is twice as large. The flow area is that little bit of area that includes the ring gap and part of the end that hangs over the land underneath the ring. Everything else is closed off because the ring is sitting on the piston ring land. So you actually have only that little spot that is hanging over the edge."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2019
  11. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    Attached Files:

  12. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    thanks for the help, your a true valuable asset to the site!
     
  13. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks Grumpy, I try to help when I can!

    Do you have an easy way to replace all the links throughout your forum for a specific website??? Like when a link is broken, can you replace all the bad links with the new link???
     
  14. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    no, unfortunately its a one at a time swap process
     
  15. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    Somebody please school me on why pistons with 4 valve reliefs were originally installed in these motors at the factory. Was it simply to allow for assembly line errors, where a given piston might be installed incorrectly? Or maybe to cut manufacturing costs, so that the same piston part # could be installed in cylinders on either side of the block?

    And why are they still available? Since pistons with two reliefs give slightly more compression, why would someone still choose to buy pistons with four reliefs?

    I have an issue with this, because I'm shopping for pistons for my 327 and see that the 2-relief pistons are generally more costly. It makes no sense, unless the 4-relief pistons are more popular and therefore benefit from greater economies of production. :willynilly:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    BTW, most piston compression rings have a dot on the upper surface to indicate the side designed to face the top of the piston
    Examples:

    4 Relief: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-L2165F30/

    2 Relief: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-WL-2326F30/



    thats simple [​IMG]

    chevy has both a right and left piston due to the exhaust not always being on the same side of the cylinder, for the same piston to be used on either location in the block and on either side the valve notches needed to be mirror or duplicated for ease of assembly,btw
    [​IMG]
    notice the top rods non-beveled side that faces the matching rod is up, but on the lower rod the the beveled side that faces the crank counter weight is up on the lower rod
     
  16. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2019
  17. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2015
  18. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

  19. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I ran across this posted question on a different web site and thought I should comment

    the poster asked
    THE answer from a well known engine builder
    now my first thought, reading the question was,
    WOW, I'm glad he actually measured the bearing clearance's,

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    because so many time's I see guys just buy a crank out of a catalog thats, listed as having "STANDARD" crank journals,
    and then bought a set of STANDARD size bearings,
    and slapped the components together without measuring a damn thing!

    just the fact hes actually accurately measured the bearing clearances is a big step in the correct direction!
    honestly, while building an engine, you can,t just take things out of the box and bolt things together and expect the result to function correctly.
    you can get away with clearance's that might be a bit outside of the suggested range and still get the engine to work, but the closer you can get to the suggested range the better the bearings tend to work.


    Ive found that .0024 - .0028 on the first four main bearings, and .0026-.0031 on the rear main bearing , on the big block chevy engine ,works rather well

    King Bearing Oil Clearance Chart

    Oil Viscosity Rod Bearing Clearance Main Bearing Clearance

    20w / 5w20 < – 0.0021 < 0.0020

    30w / 5w30 0.0021 – 0.0026 0.0020 – 0.0025

    40w / 10w40 0.0026 – 0.0031 0.0025 – 0.0030

    50w / 20w50 0.0031 – > 0.0030 – >

    [​IMG]
    http://hotrodshack.com/torque_settings.htm
    Fastener Type Torque Specs
    Main cap bolt, 396-427 2-bolt 95 ft.-lbs.
    Main cap bolt, 396-454 4-bolt (inner/outer) 110 ft.-lbs.
    3/8 in. connecting rod bolt 50 ft.-lbs.
    7/16 in. connecting rod bolt 67-73 ft.-lbs.
    Cylinder head bolts, long 75 ft.-lbs.
    Cylinder head bolts, short 65-68 ft.-lbs.
    Screw-in rocker arm studs 50 ft.-lbs.
    Intake manifold bolts (cast iron head) 25 ft.-lbs.
    Oil pump bolt 65 ft.-lbs.
    Cam sprocket bolts 20 ft.-lbs.
    Harmonic damper bolt 85 ft.-lbs.
    Flywheel/flexplate bolts 60 ft.-lbs.
    Pressure plate bolts 35 ft.-lbs.
    Bellhousing bolts 25 ft.-lbs.
    Exhaust manifold bolts 20 ft.-lbs.


    READ THESE LINKS
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rod-bolt-mics-stretch-gauges.989/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
  20. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    Ok, what gives here. You called me out when I wanted a dial bore gauge that
    measured in .0001. Wish I could remember the exact topic, but it's been too
    long now....about 2-3 months ago.

    Looks like to me you must be measuring to the 1/10,000 of an inch to quote
    numbers like .0024 to .0028 inch.

    I'm not mad, just wanting to get a proper explanation and have a discussion
    surrounding measuring clearances. hehehehe!!!!
     

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