building a custom wet sump oil pan

my favorite engine to build is based on the 392 chrysler hemi which is even older
If I had unlimited cash Id be building these or second gen hemis just because I like the design


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-early-hemi-my-favorite-engine.491/#post-2592

BTW a few TIPS ON FABRICATING AN OIL PAN

(1) in most cases your working with thin sheet steel, and a mig with .023 wire
will be rather easier to use without burn throughs, but I VASTLY PREFER A DECENT TIG WELDER

(2) it should be obvious that surfaces must be completely free of oil, rust paint etc.
you'll generally have fewer warped panels if you use lap welds, pop rivets and only weld about 1" on a seam, then skip to a different area, then repeat, if you weld continuously panels warp

(3) lap welds are generally preferred vs butt welds

lapjointre1.png

lapjointre.png

types-of-welding-joints.jpg



(4) making and test fitting poster board and tape section patterns vs working in sheet metal on the design phase is going to save you hours and lots of cash,
yes that means with the new custom oil pan,
on the engine in the car/truck,
with the oil filter and exhaust etc in place,
and while you paying attention to ground and suspension component movement and clearance, clutch linkage and transmission and shifter and flywheel clearance, STARTERS< HEADERS< OIL FILTERS, YOUR OIL PUMP AND PICK_UP , YOUR WINDAGE SCREEN AND OIL SLOSH BAFFLES ,MAIN CAPS< RODS CRANK COUNTER WEIGHTS ETC NEED CLEARANCE!
:rolleyes::D


(5)pop rivets to hold sections in place temporarily is generally helpful

(6) air nibblers are helpful
https://www.eastwood.com/ingersoll-rand-ir325b-heavy-duty-air-nibbler.html








https://www.millerwelds.com/resourc...essfully-welding-sheet-metal-with-mig-and-tig

https://garage.eastwood.com/eastwood-chatter/how-to-mig-weld-sheet-metal/





 
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Driving my 1987 C4 Corvette Roadster today. Nice day out .
I would install a 392 Ci Hemi V8 if I had it.
 
Iforgot said:
Not what I wanted to see on a nice Saturday morning! It cracked around spot weld that holds in oil control baffle/trap door assembly.

Jeg's brand pan, "USA made", has all the baffling inside, etc. Not sure who built it but it looks a lot like some Hamburger pans I've seen. It was a nice, thick pan, I hoped all the problems I'd had in the past with import pans cracking were gone, but I was wrong.

https://stellartechnical.com/products/sil-fos-15-brazing-rods?variant=5368214126619&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwp4j6BRCRARIsAGq4yMHcjgBKY6oe0p7-knvvNsXU2lpl33Pi1KGgn6RxyRb5n4t4lgGI7hEaAqrKEALw_wcB

Not the first cracked pan I've ever saw, and I've seen just about all brands develop cracks, but I gotta wonder..is there anything that can be done- other than a better sheet metal welding process at the factory- to prevent cracking around spot welds? Sure wish the people that build pans would TIG the baffles in, lot easier to control heat. Or is it the sheet metal baffles vibrating that cause cracks? Just nature of the beast?

5usie1xm.jpg




one more in an endless list of reason everyone needs a decent MIG or TIG welder in your shop,
keep in mind vibration that is the root cause of fatigue cracks ,can frequently be traced back to a less than ideal rotating assembly balance job, so curing the source of the problem makes a good deal of sense if you don,t want it re-occur
READ THIS
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/engine-balancing.3900/#post-58271
if you've ever wondered WHY you should balance your engine 's rotating assembly,
and braze the oil pump pick-up to the pump, heres a few examples of what high rpm vibration, and constant stress,
can do to internal engine components over time

http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/oil-pumps.asp

IMG_5010.jpg

IMG_5011.jpg

IMG_5012.jpg

broken%20oilpickup.jpg


some after market oil pans are not as structurally strong, as the factory oil pans simply because the metal is thinner or they are not as well designed, and many extend lower making them more prone to road trash damage

oil pans crack along lines of UN even stress due to vibration, standard welds along the crack will only provide a temporary fix in many cases,
a proper patch with three parallel weld beads, with a patch about 1" wide, and extending 3/4" past the crack length, spreads the stressed area, adding considerable strength to the stressed area, careful cleaning of the area to be welded before welding is mandatory, patch material should be as thick or a bit thicker than original sheet metal gauge and center weld of the cracked oil pan should extend into over laid patch material, obviously this requires a few clamps and careful measuring and don't weld more than 1/2" bead without letting the pan cool a bit between welds to prevent heat warp issues.
yes you'll be forced to remove the oil pan while the repairs being done so inspect carefully for additional micro cracks that you might want to prevent from happening, or extending later on!
Cutting two 24" long sections of angle aluminum scrap,drilling and taping a section of 3"x 3" angle aluminum to match the oil pan gasket surface so bolts can be used to hold the gasket surface parallel and square to the block rail surface while welding

pical6061ang.jpg


and bolting that to each oil pan gasket surface, while welding tends to limit heat distortion.
yeah it takes some time to do correctly but it won,t tend to fail again either
lapjointre1.png

lapjointre.png


12cal.jpg


http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/sheetmetal.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/mig-wire-selection.1283/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/shield-gas-selection-for-welding.1108/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/most-versital-shop-welder.1594/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/want-to-buy-a-mig-for-sheet-metal.10601/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/mig-or-tig.72/

sheetga.png
 
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I don't how you find all the Carnage of Blown up engines Grumpy.
Nearly all are SBC.
 
if you have not purchased a decent MIG or TIG welder , your putting yourself in a minor dis-advantaged position.
I got a call from one of the local guys and he purchased an expensive custom, built, baffled steel oil pan for his big block 1966 corvette,
he spent an hour or more only to find there was a very minor interference fit with the front lower frame,and suspension clearance issues.
I suggested he do some careful measurements, and suggested he have the oil pan modified,
and he found he only required the sump be modified to gain about, 3/8" inch in a very small area,
about 4" wide and x 1" tall.
I suggested he accurately mark out the problem area,
(I generally use blaze orange nail polish, and a small paint brush that comes in most nail polish bottles)
orangebrush.jpg
and have the area cut and modified.
he could have the original manufacturer , do so, or have it done locally,
he seemed rather reluctant too do that on an oil pan that had cost him over $500,
but after talking to the manufacturer , who said they would refund his money or modify the oil pan as needed,
, and doing some research he found he had very few options,
yes he could send it back, but that might take a couple weeks time,
if he wanted a 7 quart oil pan with the required ground clearance.
he had a local performance machine shop , cut & weld ,and modify the oil pan,
after he marked the oil pan carefully, for $50, in labor fees,
the pan fit perfectly. and while he was initially reluctant to do the mods it was and is a rather common requirement,
if your doing significant performance upgrades.
if he owned a decent welder and had the welding skills mods like that are both common and very easily done.
its a fact of life that once you start down the road to do performance mods,
you will occasionally find parts you buy won,t fit and may need to be modified.
I'm sure most people would have sent the oil pan back,
to the original manufacturer to be modified, and thats obviously the safest route,
but he made a choice and the oil pan now fits and functions perfectly so I can,t fault his choice.
if it was me, if it was my car, my engine,
Id have not even blinked, accurately measured,
cut and welded as required,
and done the required mods myself.
S.O.P.... but then, I've built several custom BBC oil pans , in the past,
extensively modified several ,so its not like a minor cut & patch jobs a challenge.
 
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That Reminds me of the Defect in all available Pontiac V8 Oil pans Grumpy.
The Forward oil control under hard braking.
Happens when you add 4-wheel disc brakes or rear disc brakes on my T/A.

Done much better on A SBC Race pan.

Have to resolve this time around build in progress.
 





keep in mind you generally want a 7-8 quart capacity oil pan with a windage screen and oil control baffles,
that is between 7" and 7.5" deep at the most, from the lower block rails, that clears all the chassis, oil filter, starter, exhaust etc. and one you can get easy access too if it needs to be removed while the engines in the car



https://www.jegs.com/p/Weiand/Weiand-Fabricated-Oil-Pan-Kits/3354699/10002/-1

http://www.billetfab.com/

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/custom-oil-pans/

https://charliesoilpans.com/

https://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/small-block-chevy-oil-pans.php

https://www.moroso.com/moroso-shop-browse/1100001/
 
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Choosing An Engine Oil Cooler Or Transmission Fluid Cooler

Hi there, So I'm looking for guidance regarding how to choose an engine oil cooler. I don't want to get one too small or I guess too large. I looked through the threads in part of the forum but did not find anything that popped out at me that I could use to help me. Any guidance or references...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-cooler-info-and-derale-trans-cool-pans.662/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ans-cooler-on-a-c4-corvette.10514/#post-44478

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-in-building-a-good-engine.11682/#post-54682

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-cooler-increases-durability.176/#post-12335


a well designed baffled oil pan goes a long way toward increasing both engine durability, and engine cooling capacity, as the larger surface area and oil volume both contribute towards better oil cooling and the capacity to keep the bearing surfaces both cooler and better lubricated due to the significantly larger volume of oil in the pan subjected to the contact with the outside cooling air flow around the oil pan and its much larger surface area.
obviously adding an external oil cooler
(especially if its got an external fan and AN#8 line size to rapidly transfer heat from the oil too the outside air flow)

further increases oil cooling capacity and the ability to keep oil temps in the desired 190F-220F range while racing.
 
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custom fabricating an oil pan
Ive generally found a TIG welder slightly preferable to a MIG but I'm in the MINORITY, most of my friends think,
I'm insane as I own a 252 MILLER MIG that welds very nicely
the key is careful measurement and making patterns with cardboard and duct tape,
and VERY CAREFULLY thinking through your goals and how you may reach the goals ,
and still easily bolt the oil pan you design to the engine and car your working with,
with the oil filter exhaust chassis and all the suspension components in use,,
long before you ever touch, or think of cutting and molding or fabricating, with sheet steel


, Ive generally found mil surplus ammo cans as a good source for fabricating oil pan sumps
yes that means with the new custom oil pan,
on the engine in the car/truck,
with the oil filter and exhaust etc in place,
and while you paying attention to ground and suspension component movement and clearance, clutch linkage and transmission and shifter and flywheel clearance, STARTERS< HEADERS< OIL FILTERS, YOUR OIL PUMP AND PICK_UP , YOUR WINDAGE SCREEN AND OIL SLOSH BAFFLES ,MAIN CAPS< RODS CRANK COUNTER WEIGHTS ETC NEED CLEARANCE!

theres lots of welder tips in this section






 
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use of a matching windage tray and baffles and making damn sure the oil pan pick-ups mounted,
so its about 3/8"-1/2" off the oil pan floor is critical to having good oil control.
and ideally you'll mount the windage screen, of a proper matching design,
so it has about an 1/8th inch clearance from the rotating assembly.
don't ignore use of high temp ceramic magnets and a shrapnel screen.
233.jpg


Ive generally used hardware stainless screen (like linked below)
epoxied over oil drain holes, and ceramic magnets,
to limit broken valve train debris reaching the lower crank case

look long and hard at the available commercial oil pans
(you may find it cheaper and easier to buy what you want,

or at least get some good ideas toward your custom design.
keep in mind you generally want a 7-8 quart capacity oil pan with a windage screen and oil control baffles,

that is between 7" and 7.5" deep at the most, from the lower block rails, that clears all the chassis, oil filter, starter, exhaust etc. and one you can get easy access too if it needs to be removed while the engines in the car
 
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linked info might help you design a better oil an and baffle design
its critical any baffle design you use allows oil to flow towards the oil pump pick-up,
but restricts oil flow away from the oil pump pick-up under hard
acceleration hard turns or braking
use of
shrapnel screens and magnets may also benefit oil control.





 
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