Building a S̶t̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶3̶5̶0̶ 383 for Frank the Tank…

EVERY choice you make is a compromise in some area of your build,
adding a high volume oil pump with less than a 6-7 quart baffled oil pan is generally counter productive,
theres ALWAYS trade-offs and at times the advantages of the parts selection far out weight the disadvantages,
other times the cost and difficulty results in little or no real benefit,
the higher capacity oil pan and windage tray combo provides a significant benefit to the potential engine durability
(with or without the high volume oil pump) but its almost mandatory with the higher volume pump.
but its the builders choice to make the parts selection and try to make choices that provide carefully thought through benefits,
if your going to install a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan and windage tray youll have the oil control issue covered and the larger bearing clearances,
will not be an issue especially if you install a higher volume oil pump, like the
SBC
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mel-10552
BBC
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-10778/
with a matching pick-up carefully clearanced to your oil pan application,
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-20195/overview/year/1966/make/chevrolet/model/impala
mor-20195c.jpg

and it would be rather useful to find a cost effective high volume oil pan and matching oil pump pick-up matching your particular application before jumping into the purchase of related parts
fabricating a custom built windage tray like this if properly done will more than likely be cheaper AND more effective than many you could purchase

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sources-for-preforated-sheet.1518/

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http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/installing-an-oil-pump-pick-up-tube.1800/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/magnets.120/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/whats-a-windage-tray-do.64/

This is the pan I'm working with.

oilpanside.jpg oilpantop.jpg

I don't have an oil pump or pickup yet, so suggestions on that are welcome.

What sort of material is that windage tray mesh made out of? I can find galvanised and aluminum so far..?

I imagine tacking it to the pan will mean I need to repaint..?

I assume tighter bearings + high volume pump + windage tray is best?

Grumpy - You feel the hv pump and windage tray will be sufficient?
 
It can happen in A Pontiac V8 Grumpy.
1-quart of oil in each Valvecover.
1 Quart on the Return path down through the Lifter Valley.
1 quart in the Oil Filter & Lifter Galleries.
That leaves 1 quart in the Pan sump with a 5-quart system.
It would be a WOT Situation .
Exteneded time period.
Or Fast 1/4 mile Run.
Pontiac pump moves 9-11 gallons per minute.
Modified Butler 19-20 gallons per minute .


Small Block Chevy built with Factory clearances has low oil Volume demands.

Also Jimmy is on a budget like the Rest

Stock block.
Stock rods.
I think stock crankshaft too.
Flat tappet Solid or Hydraulic cam too.

Tight budget it correct Brian ;)

I have stock block, new scat crank and rods and yes a flat tappet cam is the plan.
 
I bought a barely used MAKITA GD0600 400W 6MM DIE GRINDER on eBay this week. I just need to get some grinding bits...

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What bits am I after?

What are the main things I should be having a grind at on the block?

The oil return holes obviously need love..

oilreturn.jpg
 

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Can anyone confirm the material I need for the windage tray? what sort of metal? I have seen perforated galvanised and aluminum..

What types of die grinder bits are required to tidy up the block and do the porting and polishing?
 
I generally buy a 12" x 24" sheet like this and make a poster card board , pattern and tape it with duct tape in the oil pan to test fit before I cut the metal ,that way I don,t screw it up before I start to cut and fit and weld it into the oil pan, the cost will generally be under $20 an oil pan
one more in an endless list of reasons to buy a decent welder in their garage shop


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http://www.ebay.com/itm/304-STAINES...601247?hash=item20d77325df:g:iKUAAMXQoYJSJzzd

look on EBAY , and if you have a local metal supply you can ask them
you can fabricate a very effective windage tray for oil control like BUSTERRM DID HERE

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I submitted all my build info to a local cam company Crow Cams, who are located here in Melbourne AUS. I like the idea of getting parts locally if I can..

They suggested the following custom grind cam for Hyd Flat Tappet

Advance Ground on Cam: 0 Lobe separation: 108 |
| .050 VALVE TIMING |
| Inlet opens: 11 BTDC Closes: 47 ABDC .050 Duration: 238 |
| Exhaust Opens: 51 BBDC Closes: 15 ATDC .050 Duration: 246 |
| ADVERTISED VALVE TIMING |
| Inlet opens: 34 BTDC Closes: 70 ABDC ADV Duration: 284 |
| Exhaust Opens: 76 BBDC Closes: 40 ATDC ADV Duration: 295 |
| Inlet lobe lift at TDC on the over lap:.086 |
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Valve lift Inlet: .4862 Inlet Rocker Ratio: 1.50 |
| Valve lift Exhaust: .4905 Exhaust Rocker Ratio: 1.50

What are your thoughts guys?
 
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in RICKS T-BUCKET that would be a decent cam, choice.
your car weights more that twice as much, while the cam they selected for you, will make good power,
Id suggest looking at a bit lower duration, maybe the next smaller cam their list,
simply because you need a bit more vacuum for the brakes and because of your cars weight ,
your cars rear gear ratio,and your use of an automatic transmission.
obviously your car and your choice , but I think youll be happier with a bit smaller duration cam choice, perhaps like the red underlined
crowca.png


http://www.crowcams.com.au/Portals/0/Catalogue-June-2014/Chevrolet-small-block-V8.pdf
 
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in RICKS T-BUCKET that would be a decent cam, choice.
your car weights more that twice as much, while the cam they selected for you, will make good power,
Id suggest looking at a bit lower duration, maybe the next smaller cam their list,
simply because you need a bit more vacuum for the brakes and because of your cars weight ,
your cars rear gear ratio,and your use of an automatic transmission.
obviously your car and your choice , but I think youll be happier with a bit smaller duration cam choice, perhaps like the red underlined
crowca.png


http://www.crowcams.com.au/Portals/0/Catalogue-June-2014/Chevrolet-small-block-V8.pdf

Thanks for your input Grumpy. Why do you think they went with the suggestion they did..? Probably a silly question I guess... I imagine they just use a program to generate the suggested grind..

If you created a custom grind, would you do it any different from the one you underlined?

66 Chev Impala 3600lbs
stock '68 block, 4.040, 4 bolt
385 stroker
new Scat external balance cast rotating assembly - 5.6" rods, hyperutectic pistons (flat top with approx 5cc relief)
roller tip rockers (to be confirmed)
Promaxx 185cc, 72cc chamber heads
Aiming for 10:1 SCR potentially higher (10.5) as my engine machinist says that up to 11:1 is pretty safe on our 98RON fuel...
Holley 4bbl 725cfm vac sec carb
Performer RPM intake
1 5/8 Hedman headers
TH350 auto
3.25 10 bolt rear (hope to upgrade to a 3.55 or 3.7 9inch rear in future)
27" tire height
Currently not fitted with brake booster.
 
Can anyone confirm the material I need for the windage tray? what sort of metal? I have seen perforated galvanised and aluminum..

What types of die grinder bits are required to tidy up the block and do the porting and polishing?
I used what is known as 101 perf sheet steel, it was 12 gauge carbon steel, the welding I had mine TIG welded into the oil pan, but it can be done with MIG welding, I had one of this area's best TIG welders at my disposal at work. You'll need burr bits, rock bits, if you work on aluminum you need single cut burr bits but be careful they are very aggressive on aluminum. The polishing ask Indycars, he helped me do the polishing on my heads.
 
index.php

in RICKS T-BUCKET that would be a decent cam, choice.
your car weights more that twice as much, while the cam they selected for you, will make good power,
Id suggest looking at a bit lower duration, maybe the next smaller cam their list,
simply because you need a bit more vacuum for the brakes and because of your cars weight ,
your cars rear gear ratio,and your use of an automatic transmission.
obviously your car and your choice , but I think youll be happier with a bit smaller duration cam choice, perhaps like the red underlined
crowca.png


http://www.crowcams.com.au/Portals/0/Catalogue-June-2014/Chevrolet-small-block-V8.pdf
I agree with that also, remember with the greater cubic inches the rpm range will likely be a little bit lower. But that cam seems to be a good compromise.
 
I honestly don,t know why they suggested the cam they did, now let me point out that cam they selected will make a bit more peak horse power than the one I underlined in red in their catalog, there is no question there is the potential for 10-15 more peak hp with that selection.
BUT with an automatic trans power brakes and the rear gear ratio you previously stated you have in that heavy car, I think it would result in a far less street friendly driving combo.
As I've stated several times in the past every choice you makes a compromise in some area and in the case of a rather heavy car like that lower rpm torque and having a much lower average power band like the cam I underlined in red makes a great deal more sense.

crowcab.png

the cam you stated they selected is a good deal closer in its specs to the cam I underlined in dark gold here, and while theres no question it has the potential to make more peak power its going to do it at an rpm range thats partly above the rpm point the transmission is likely to shift at, and its not going to be instantly responsive in the idle to 1800 rpm range and a bit sluggish until you hit at least 2200 rpm , thus my concern here.
I'd bet if your honest with yourself youll find you spend at least 30% of your time driving at under 2400 rpm
now you can buy and install either cam, but your going to find as I stated both are going to be a compromise in one area or the other, you must decide if your willing to give up some low speed cruising and drive-ability for a bit more peak power or if your willing to give up a bit of peak power for a bit better street manors, but remember you generally spend less than 5% of the time with an engine at peak rpms on a street driven car
 
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I honestly don,t know why they suggested the cam they did, now let me point out that cam they selected will make a bit more peak horse power than the one I underlined in red in their catalog, there is no question there is the potential for 10-15 more peak hp with that selection.
BUT with an automatic trans power brakes and the rear gear ratio you previously stated you have in that heavy car, I think it would result in a far less street friendly driving combo.
As I've stated several times in the past every choice you makes a compromise in some area and in the case of a rather heavy car like that lower rpm torque and having a much lower average power band like the cam I underlined in red makes a great deal more sense.

crowcab.png

the cam you stated they selected is a good deal closer in its specs to the cam I underlined in dark gold here, and while theres no question it has the potential to make more peak power its going to do it at an rpm range thats partly above the rpm point the transmission is likely to shift at, and its not going to be instantly responsive in the idle to 1800 rpm range and a bit sluggish until you hit at least 2200 rpm , thus my concern here.
I'd bet if your honest with yourself youll find you spend at least 30% of your time driving at under 2400 rpm
now you can buy and install either cam, but your going to find as I stated both are going to be a compromise in one area or the other, you must decide if your willing to give up some low speed cruising and drive-ability for a bit more peak power or if your willing to give up a bit of peak power for a bit better street manors, but remember you generally spend less than 5% of the time with an engine at peak rpms on a street driven car

Hearing you loud an clear Grumpy :) thanks.

My question was, as with their suggested custom grind, would you change anything on that 11367 cam if you could for my build..? A little more duration or a different LSA? Or go with the standard option they have in the catalogue?
 
I used what is known as 101 perf sheet steel, it was 12 gauge carbon steel, the welding I had mine TIG welded into the oil pan, but it can be done with MIG welding, I had one of this area's best TIG welders at my disposal at work. You'll need burr bits, rock bits, if you work on aluminum you need single cut burr bits but be careful they are very aggressive on aluminum. The polishing ask Indycars, he helped me do the polishing on my heads.

Thanks. I'm struggling to find a supplier around here... I'll keep looking....
 
If we are talking about David Vizzard Engines Jimmy, He tested all his SBC Engines in his 1979 Pontiac Trans Am.
A lighter car than your 1966 Impala.

Grumpy is right.
Less is more .
With your current Combo right now.
Match your Driveline and rear diff gearing .
 
Its been several months now or even n entire year but I recall Grumpy had a Flat Tappet Solid Lifter cam profile picked out.
Solids - solid lifter cams make Tremendous Torque down low.
Midrange punch is excellent .
Top end power even with a mild grind is very good.
Tricks a SBC Into BBC Power territory.
 
If we are talking about David Vizzard Engines Jimmy, He tested all his SBC Engines in his 1979 Pontiac Trans Am.
A lighter car than your 1966 Impala.

Grumpy is right.
Less is more .
With your current Combo right now.
Match your Driveline and rear diff gearing .

Hi Brian :)

We're discussing the cam recommended by a local cam manufacturer... You'll see it up a few posts. Grumpy suggested that I needed less duration as you also said.

They do custom grinds (which their recommendation was) and I was interested in Grumpy's thoughts on whether a custom grind could be any better for my needs or if the 11367 cam from their catalogue would be fine. It's a hydraulic flat tappet.

For no good reason, I'm a bit nervous about a flat tappet solid lifter setup...
 
the difference between a custom grind and an off the shelf selection, (provided its well matched to the application is rarely more that a few hp,) but can quite easily be double the cost.
I think in this case the RED UNDERLINED cam with 1.6:1 ratio roller rockers would be about the max duration Id choose
 
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ch-is-best-steel-or-aluminum.3124/#post-12385
I think the cam I under lined in RED would be about as wild in duration as Id select for that car,
and Id add 1.6:1 roller rockers if I could afford to, as the added lift helps air flow.
Id also use 1.6:1 roller rockers on a mild 383 SBC build in most cases
http://www.pbm-erson.com/Catalog/Erson/Camshafts/Retro_Fit Hydraulic Roller_E/ERSE119815
ersonr4.jpg

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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Erson-Cams-803-16-SB-Chevy-Extreme-Duty-1-6-Aluminum-Roller-Rockers-7-16-Stud/173036288915?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20160908110712&meid=dd2ef46908f84d1994db01594e3da770&pid=100677&rk=4&rkt=8&sd=173036285468&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598
ID also point out that even with that milder cam I underlined in red it will run noticeably better with a 2800 rpm-3000 rpm stall speed converter and a 3.55:1-3.73:1 rear gear ratio and a shift kit on the auto transmission.
that cam is also FAR more radical that the original 307 engine had and youll notice the BIG difference, even in the larger engine.
you always need to keep in mind the completed combo and how parts match, if your going to use a flat tappet hydraulic cam, and reasonably mild compression and a fairly low numerical rear gear (2.57:1-3.07:1) you can,t expect to throw a fairly radical cam in the engine and maintain really nice lower rpm torque, and enough plenum vacuum for power brakes and a smooth idle etc.
 
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Choose a cam with a Smooth idle Jimmy.
It will be real simple to tune the engine.
It will start up immediately in any weather conditions .
Drive anywhere.
By the time you buy a high stall torque converter, Built stronger Ford 9 inch with lower gears, ect....your $3,000-4,000 cash away you don't have to spend present .
You can always change to a Hotter camshaft later.
Vintage GM Cars as your 1966 Impala & my 1963 Grand Prix are easy to work on.
Change out the camshaft in the car in 3 hours time.
$250-300 spent later.
 
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