Building a S̶t̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶3̶5̶0̶ 383 for Frank the Tank…

Well the stock rod are pretty strong and could handle about 400hp, but dont detonate(so make sure tuning is spot on), the weak link is the rod bolt but you can change them to arp. But if your budjet allow its best to get new stronger rod. and like you said, wait while the funds recuperate before moving to the next step.
So yes it worth pushing time frames and extending budget a little to get there. Because stock rod will make future engine upgrade impossible or very expensive since we will reach the limit of the rotating assembly"rods" with this build. Anyway a cast crank can't really handle over 400 hp too... Your going forged or cast crank? that make a huge difference loll i assumed cast because of the budjet.
SBC are not a good choice for a budjet build. BBC or LS is the way 2 go.

I said you could re-use the stock one because your on a very small budjet, thats the ONLY reason. So if you can afford it, get better ones. 5.7 or 6 inch dosent really matter(but 5.7 is better for a street low redline engine"6000-6500, it do not change the compression much but it do change the dwell time and that help on pump gas/detonation)). If you make it an all out drag racing sky revving 8000 rpm engine get the 6 inch(and a forged crank too), but you will hate cruising on the street with a high revving engine.
Don'T get a headache with 5,7 vs 6 simply get the cheaper and stronger(best deal) since the difference is really minor and unnoticeable between 5.7 and 6.
I think, get the block prepped first, then move to the rotating assembly.
Rick's idea of .040 oversize is good. .060 on a stock block make for thin cylinder walls, am not a fan of that.(thats why you need the block checked and prepped first, so you know what size piston etc.. to get)

650-700 cfm is a good choice for a low redline 383. Even better, when the engine is ready.. have your engine spec on hand and give a call to holley, deamon .... they know better what to use for your combo(i bet they will say 650-700cfm if your cam's around 225-235 duration :p).
Roller cam need stronger spring because of the extra valvetrain"lifter" weigth.
 
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http://www.tennesseespeedsport.com/Scat-25700716-CHEVY-I-Beam-Rods.html
ibeam-07.jpg


far stronger than stock, SCAT rods with 7/16" ARP bolts (easily 200% over stock rods) cost less than having smaller diam 3/8" ARP rod bolts installed in the weaker stock rods then having the stock rods resized and polished for stress relief


READ THE LINKS (read carefully and look at the heads and cams used)
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article152/A-P1.html

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/74038-polish-connecting-rods/

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ctrp-1012-race-engine-rebuild-tips/

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine...building-factory-aftermarket-connecting-rods/

http://www.jensensenginetech.com/5-05_tech_tip.html

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007/04/performance-connecting-rods/

http://www.chevydiy.com/crankshafts-connecting-rods-pistons-guide-chevy-big-blocks/
 
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Sry, am done editing my post for the 50th time. sorry :(.
Speaking english the morning before cofee is hard on me :p.

But honestly, you know what it cost to build a strong and reliable SBC?.. way too much.
Rick, how much $ just for the engine alone on the t-bucket(parts+tax/shipping+machining work)? i bet around 10 000$ and still under 600hp.. see what i mean?.
Sometime i wish i went to a LS turbo or procharged instead of a gen1 sbc... If only i could get back 4-5 years in the past...
Cheaper to build, Better fuel economy, better engine overall. A LS or a BBC, but next engine is NOT going to be a Gen1 SBC for me.

I don't regret it, its a blast to drive and reliabl, but it cost a fortune to build correctly. I could have used that extra cash for a better stronger drivetrain instead.
That's my 2'c
 
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Everything was Fine & A-ok Mathew till July Last Year 2014.
Warbird #1 news came out.
Warbird #2 next.
Warbird # 3... SRT VIPER T/A I fear most Racing.
 
There is not enough difference in performance to worry about, both have their pros and cons. But again it's a minor difference.

I check the price on Scat connecting rods and the price is identical at Summit for 5.7 or 6.0 inch rods. Just go with the best deal you can find.

The work to clearance either size connecting rod, will be the same.

My thoughts ....... buy a rotating assembly. You can't do all the machine work to revamp the rods, rod bolts and crank without spending more that just buying a new assembly. Cost is $800-$1000 and that includes pistons, rings and bearing. You just can't do it separately for that price.

BTW, I noticed Scat had .040 over pistons, that might work for you if you don't need to go .060 over to clean up the bores.

Great, thanks for clearing that up.

I'll keep working on the engine pull down and get the block to the machine shop.

On my list of requests for the machine shop I have:

  1. Clean and magnaflux/check for cracks
  2. Hone and bore cylinders as required - I need to specify that it is done with a deck plate yes?
  3. Align honing the main bearings? David Vizard says it's a waste of money..?
  4. Skim the deck - is there a deck height I'm seeking? or just as little off as to make it flat?
  5. Verify the lifter bore locations/diam - is this a requirement?
  6. Install cam bearings - This should be left till after all clearancing the block for 383 yes? Is there a brand or type of bearing that is better value? Is there a difference between roller and flat tappet cam bearings?
 
oh yea and for the roller vs fla tappet head thing.... thats just about what springs come in the heads out of the box.. there may be an ik version thats roller cam ready or it may be a couple bucks more based on the spring change i dont know. but yea basically the spring pressures for a roller cam are different so its usually an "upgrade" to get roller ready springs.

Thanks for clearing those up for me.. :)

So, the roller ready, will usually specify in the info listed.. I'll make sure to keep an eye out for that.
 
http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1021001/10002/-1?parentProductId=

perhaps a few bits of info, BTW the heads come with several combustion chamber volumes so do some calcs regarding your engine before ordering to get the compression correct for YOUR application

200bro1.png


200bro2.png



Recommended Valve Spring Pressures

Note: The pressure figures given here are guidelines only. Some special applications may require different pressures. When in doubt,

please contact the HOWARD Technical Department ((920) 233.5228)
please contact the Erson Technical Department (800-641-7920)
please contact the CRANE Technical Department(866-388-5120)
please contact the Lunati Technical Department(Tech Line: 662-892-1500)
please contact the CROWER Technical Department(619-661-6477 •)

Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft: 110 lbs Seat pressure / 250-280 lbs open pressure

Solid Flat Tappet Camshaft: 130 lbs Seat Pressure / 300-325 lbs open pressure

Hydraulic Roller Camshaft: 130 lbs Seat Pressure / 300- 325 lbs open pressure

Solid Roller Camshaft:(Minimum Safe Pressures)

Up to .600 valve lift:

200-235 lbs Seat Pressure / 600 lbs open pressure

Over .600  valve lift:

250-280 lbs Seat pressure / 100 lbs pressure for every .100 of valve lift



 
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Well the stock rod are pretty strong and could handle about 400hp, but dont detonate(so make sure tuning is spot on), the weak link is the rod bolt but you can change them to arp. But if your budjet allow its best to get new stronger rod. and like you said, wait while the funds recuperate before moving to the next step.
So yes it worth pushing time frames and extending budget a little to get there. Because stock rod will make future engine upgrade impossible or very expensive since we will reach the limit of the rotating assembly"rods" with this build. Anyway a cast crank can't really handle over 400 hp too... Your going forged or cast crank? that make a huge difference loll i assumed cast because of the budjet.
SBC are not a good choice for a budjet build. BBC or LS is the way 2 go.

I said you could re-use the stock one because your on a very small budjet, thats the ONLY reason. So if you can afford it, get better ones. 5.7 or 6 inch dosent really matter(but 5.7 is better for a street low redline engine"6000-6500, it do not change the compression much but it do change the dwell time and that help on pump gas/detonation)). If you make it an all out drag racing sky revving 8000 rpm engine get the 6 inch(and a forged crank too), but you will hate cruising on the street with a high revving engine.
Don'T get a headache with 5,7 vs 6 simply get the cheaper and stronger(best deal) since the difference is really minor and unnoticeable between 5.7 and 6.
I think, get the block prepped first, then move to the rotating assembly.
Rick's idea of .040 oversize is good. .060 on a stock block make for thin cylinder walls, am not a fan of that.(thats why you need the block checked and prepped first, so you know what size piston etc.. to get)

650-700 cfm is a good choice for a low redline 383. Even better, when the engine is ready.. have your engine spec on hand and give a call to holley, deamon .... they know better what to use for your combo(i bet they will say 650-700cfm if your cam's around 225-235 duration :p).
Roller cam need stronger spring because of the extra valvetrain"lifter" weigth.

Thanks Mathieu :)

I appreciate you're focus on budget, it helps. I can get over-excited and start looking at purchases that are way out of budget... I'll have to buy it all piece by piece, and that will give me time to figure out all the details as I go.. But, I guess I need it pretty clear to begin with, so I don't buy the wrong pieces at the start!

I have considered an LS swap, but, a big part of the reason for the build is to have the experience of pulling it down and rebuilding.. The outcome is only a part of journey :) Although a big block is in my future one day... Maybe not in Frank the Tank... but one day...

Hopefully .040 is an option for sure.

Good suggestion on calling the manufacturers (something Grumpy has been loud and clear on), I'll remember to do that.
 

Thanks! More research is in my near future... :p I've got a day off today... I'll divide it between engine pull down and reading links!
 
Sry, am done editing my post for the 50th time. sorry :(.
Speaking english the morning before cofee is hard on me :p.

But honestly, you know what it cost to build a strong and reliable SBC?.. way too much.
Rick, how much $ just for the engine alone on the t-bucket(parts+tax/shipping+machining work)? i bet around 10 000$ and still under 600hp.. see what i mean?.
Sometime i wish i went to a LS turbo or procharged instead of a gen1 sbc... If only i could get back 4-5 years in the past...
Cheaper to build, Better fuel economy, better engine overall. A LS or a BBC, but next engine is NOT going to be a Gen1 SBC for me.

I don't regret it, its a blast to drive and reliabl, but it cost a fortune to build correctly. I could have used that extra cash for a better stronger drivetrain instead.
That's my 2'c

Ha! Don't start to rain on my parade so early... :p

I have a sneaking suspicion the budget and time frame will creep a little, but I hope to keep it reasonable.... :)
 
http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1021001/10002/-1?parentProductId=

perhaps a few bits of info, BTW the heads come with several combustion chamber volumes so do some calcs regarding your engine before ordering to get the compression correct for YOUR application

200bro1.png


200bro2.png

Ahh! I see. I had noticed the different spring diameters and recall a write up in which they suggested that the smaller spring diameter heads on the project they were testing was holding the performance back.. Thanks.
 
Yes ..... I prefer sports that require TWO BALLS !!! View attachment 5717
Hope Phil doesn't see that emoticon!

Ha! I also prefer sports that don't require rolling on the ground with other men, playing with a ball..... Although, in saying that some UFC fights would look questionable without commentary and a bow chicka bowow sound track....
 
I prefer sport that use wheels... and an engine :).

I have a sneaking suspicion the budget and time frame will creep a little, but I hope to keep it reasonable.... :)
That's what happened with me.
I was like a little kid in a candy shop, i wanted to get everything lol. All the fancy expensive stuff got me :O.
Cars and engine are very addictive,
 
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On my list of requests for the machine shop I have:

  1. Clean and magnaflux/check for cracks
  2. Hone and bore cylinders as required - I need to specify that it is done with a deck plate yes?
  3. Align honing the main bearings? David Vizard says it's a waste of money..?
  4. Skim the deck - is there a deck height I'm seeking? or just as little off as to make it flat?
  5. Verify the lifter bore locations/diam - is this a requirement?
  6. Install cam bearings - This should be left till after all clearancing the block for 383 yes? Is there a brand or type of bearing that is better value? Is there a difference between roller and flat tappet cam bearings?
1.) For the block ....Yes!

2.) Bore the cylinders to see what size piston you need. Then supply the correct pistons and have machine shop hone to fit. Yes it will need to be done with a deck plate.

3.) Check crank for straightness. Install main bearings and crank, then rotate to see if there is any binding. Examine bearings for shinny spots.
I still like align honing the mains to make sure, I did on my Dart SHP block.

4.) Would be best to know what head gasket and deck height you want, but leave as much deck material as possible. Stock block may require more than just shimming. Dart block may only require a very light cut or none. Don't know what block you are using yet.

5.) No, it's not a requirement to check lifter bores.

6.) Yes wait until after clearancing to install cam bearings. If you use stock rods, then they require considerable more clearancing than aftermarket rods. Use a name brand such as Clevite or King. It does not matter which type of cam you run, the cam bearings are the same.
 
Interesting take by David Vizzard on Align honing.
Be sure to measure with Main Caps Torqued down to specs.
Measure with a Calibrated Sunnen Dial Bore Guage that reads 1/10,000 ths of an inch- .0001".
Pontiac V8 align bores hold up well.
Honed from the factory the crank line bores.
Usually check within .0001"-.0002" of factory specs.
What's not well known is many machine shops screw up align honing.
Small home builder has no way of checking accurate. The Sunnen Dial bore. gauge and Measuring standard costs $5,000 new.
I have skipped align honing 455 blocks.
Measured perfect within .0001" of Blueprint specs.
Makes for a tighter timing chain.
 
I prefer sport that use wheels... and an engine :).


That's what happened with me.
I was like a little kid in a candy shop, i wanted to get everything lol. All the fancy expensive stuff got me :O.
Cars and engine are very addictive,

It sure is... I spent the whole day yesterday under the car replacing a few parts and then pulling down the 350 and forgot to eat all day till dinner time.....
 
1.) For the block ....Yes!

2.) Bore the cylinders to see what size piston you need. Then supply the correct pistons and have machine shop hone to fit. Yes it will need to be done with a deck plate.

3.) Check crank for straightness. Install main bearings and crank, then rotate to see if there is any binding. Examine bearings for shinny spots.
I still like align honing the mains to make sure, I did on my Dart SHP block.

4.) Would be best to know what head gasket and deck height you want, but leave as much deck material as possible. Stock block may require more than just shimming. Dart block may only require a very light cut or none. Don't know what block you are using yet.

5.) No, it's not a requirement to check lifter bores.

6.) Yes wait until after clearancing to install cam bearings. If you use stock rods, then they require considerable more clearancing than aftermarket rods. Use a name brand such as Clevite or King. It does not matter which type of cam you run, the cam bearings are the same.

Cool thanks.

Sounds like there's going to be many trips to the machine shop... :) I better choose one that isn't too much of a hike..

So, once I have the block initially checked and bored and decked, how do I figure out ahead of time all the required measurements for all the parts to be purchased? I'm aware that the bore diameter, deck height, gasket height, head chamber size and piston top type all go into the CR of the engine, but can that all be figured out now? Is there a calculator or a step by step way to do the math now (or once the block is bored) to confirm the parts list? Because it sounds like it will be a "if that then this", situation... and I will need to have the parts list all laid out before choosing the rotating assembly, which will include the pistons? If you have any links to info on how it all comes together, I'll happily read them :)
 
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