Building a S̶t̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶3̶5̶0̶ 383 for Frank the Tank…

yes its a mild solid lifter cam, which in my experience easily adds an additional 500-700rpm to the power band over a similar hydraulic version, youll NEED to keep the duration fairly low and the LSA tight to have the low and mid rpm torque the car will require, yes you could use a 2700rpm stall converter if you choose the difference will be minimal.
having a 3000 rpm stall DOES not indicate the car won,t move well at under that rpm, Ive got a 3000 rpm stall converter in my 1985 vette and it pulls fairly well under less than full throttle down at 1900rpm
 
mathd said:
I also think a bigger oil pan is a good idea. (probably a high volume pump too + hd pump shaft and a windage screen)
If you get a quality torque converter(stall at 3000 rpm).. the car should be rolling/cruising under 3000 rpm.
I try not to go over 470-475 lift with stock head(if that's what your using). any more and you may get clearance issue.(i think we need the Crane cam posted above but hydraulic version)
here's the link for the David Vizard Comp cam spec:
http://www.compcams.com/v002/Pages/395/XR270HR-10.aspx

The Crane cam's a better fit
http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=23967

Or this cam:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cca-12-322-4/overview/make/chevrolet
Click to expand...

Yeah thanks, I'm going to need a new pan, so I'll definitely get a larger one. At what sort of hp/performance level is an upgraded pump required? I plan to get a better shaft and do some smoothing of oil returns and discharge port etc..

My concern about the torque convertor is that my understanding is that you need the highway cruising rpm higher than the stall speed? How much higher is required?

I hope to use a set of after market heads. As Grumpy suggested I'm thinking the Brodix or Profiler, which should allow up to .550 lift? If I'm reading the info correctly.. :)

I'm still a little lost on this cam selection thing.... I have read the cam section in Vizard's book, I'll re-read it again and do a few more searches on here.. Does anyone have good links for figuring out how to pick a cam..? I'm happy to take on recommendations for cams, but, I'm a little concerned that I'm not sure how to compare them for suitability..
 
Stick with camshaft Grumpy has picked.

Dynomotion 2000 is what I use also.

I know exact what to expect from my Isky cam from experience.
 
87vette81big said:
Stick with camshaft Grumpy has picked.

Dynomotion 2000 is what I use also.

I know exact what to expect from my Isky cam from experience.
Click to expand...

Yes, I will go with Grumpy's recommendations :)

I can't find a Dynomotion 2000 anywhere... Is it the same as Dynomation 5? Which is $500..? Where can I get it?
 
Grumpy had a Copy D2000 somewhere here in the past.
I had a Boot Leg copy original.Old Laptop hardrive crashed.
Found a New D2000 never opened on Fleaby Ebay for $15.00 a few years back.
Nearly all the Engine Simulations here demonstrated are with D2000.
A bit dated now but gets you in the Ballpark close.
Within 20 Hp. Good enough overall.
 
grumpyvette said:
yes its a mild solid lifter cam, which in my experience easily adds an additional 500-700rpm to the power band over a similar hydraulic version, youll NEED to keep the duration fairly low and the LSA tight to have the low and mid rpm torque the car will require, yes you could use a 2700rpm stall converter if you choose the difference will be minimal.
having a 3000 rpm stall DOES not indicate the car won,t move well at under that rpm, Ive got a 3000 rpm stall converter in my 1985 vette and it pulls fairly well under less than full throttle down at 1900rpm
Click to expand...

Sorry, maybe I am not asking the question properly. I was of the understanding that if the stall speed is at or above the cruising highway rpm, then it would be constantly slipping and over heat? So, say at the 60mph speed limit my combo sits at 2900rpm and my stall speed is 3000rpm, will that cause it to over heat?
 
Indycars said:
That cam sure looks like a solid lifter and not a hydraulic with .022 inches of lifter clearance.


View attachment 5724
Click to expand...

Is the title:

F-228/3067-2-6 Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft for Chevrolet 1957-1987 V-8, 262-400

incorrect then?

Nevermind... I found it listed elsewhere as a solid lifter cam... Must be a typo..
 
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they probably offer similar if not identical profiles in both solid and hydraulic. alot like the headswe talked about earlier that are the same with different spring rates... be sure as you order parts or search for used stuff that you stay on top of those kind of discrepancies to keep your combo in line...
 
Not all torque converters are created equal Jimmy.
All have some inefficiency or slippage if Non Clutch hydraulic lockup.
A forgotten low buck 3-speed auto trans non overdrive Conveter lockup is the Turbo 350 C.
Today I would only use a Turbo 350.
Turbo 400.
700 R4.
200R4.
4L60 E.
4L80 E.

6L80E & 8L80E takes $8,000-$10,000 cash to own.
 
The 700 R4 is the Lowest cost Overdrive trans with TCC Lockup to build and use.
Safe to use 450-500 HP level if built correct .
3.06 :1 1st gear get heavy cars moving off the line in a hurry with 2.73 - 3.55 rear diff gears intact.

Turbo 400 is my Favorite personal trans for Street Race -Drag Race.

200R4 Nice if You spend the $,
There follow Ricks T-bucket 200R4 Trans build.

Turbo 350- 400 costs the least to build and drag race hard 500-1000 Hp.
Turbo 400 can take 2,000 Hp if Billet internal parts installed in key areas internal.
Stock planets and drums in TH400 Can take 850-1,000 HP.
 
I think the High volume pump is a good idea for a stroker.. increased low end torque.. so increased low end oil pressure :p.

Brodix are good heads for the price.
Have a friend with a 509 Cubic inch motor. Brodix head 738hp...
Jesel, crank callie, rod oliver, piston je. 9.60 for the quarter miles.

I have a copy of Desktop Dyno 2000 around, if you can't find it online i will sent it to your PM(if i can find it). just let me know.

The cam i posted is the same as grumpy's. except its the Hydraulic version.. just a bit less lift(0.005"?).
But with aftermarket head am not sure but i think we can get a better cam.
 
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I went back last night and spent well over an hour playing with software and testing various combos, and ran about 7 different solid lifter flat tappet cams and 10 compression ratios through my DD2000 software using a brodix cylinder head and a basic 383 with different cams and compression ratios but keeping the same dual plane intake headers etc. and trying to maximize results, if you look back to the previous page youll see the change,in the two software graphs, now the difference in off idle torque may not look nearly as significant as the boost in peak power, but combined with the lower vacuum to work the brakes Id still think the smaller duration cam makes for the slightly better driver, but theres no question that the slightly longer duration cam would make the car faster IF YOU USE THE 3.73:1 rear gears, higher stall and HIGHER STATIC compression, keep the compression at 9.7 and the results are noticeably lower for the longer duration cam, so the increase from 9.7 to 10.3 or so is significant here
http://www.claysmithcams.com/sbc-35...ax-power-6000-6200-rpm-peak-torque-3600-3800/

http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=23967

read this
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1209-eight-budget-sbc-head-shootout/

with decent heads and a low restriction exhaust you don,t need a great deal of cam duration to get good power
 
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87vette81big said:
The 700 R4 is the Lowest cost Overdrive trans with TCC Lockup to build and use.
Safe to use 450-500 HP level if built correct .
3.06 :1 1st gear get heavy cars moving off the line in a hurry with 2.73 - 3.55 rear diff gears intact.

Turbo 400 is my Favorite personal trans for Street Race -Drag Race.

200R4 Nice if You spend the $,
There follow Ricks T-bucket 200R4 Trans build.

Turbo 350- 400 costs the least to build and drag race hard 500-1000 Hp.
Turbo 400 can take 2,000 Hp if Billet internal parts installed in key areas internal.
Stock planets and drums in TH400 Can take 850-1,000 HP.
Click to expand...

I have a Turbo 350 sitting in my garage now.. As far as I know it should be close to a straight swap size wise for the power glide that I have now. So, for budget and ease of install, I'll probably rebuild the 350 and use that initially. Then think about a more robust option in future.. I'll have to pick up a few books on how to rebuild and beef up the TH350..
 
mathd said:
I think the High volume pump is a good idea for a stroker.. increased low end torque.. so increased low end oil pressure :p.

Brodix are good heads for the price.
Have a friend with a 509 Cubic inch motor. Brodix head 738hp...
Jesel, crank callie, rod oliver, piston je. 9.60 for the quarter miles.

I have a copy of Desktop Dyno 2000 around, if you can't find it online i will sent it to your PM(if i can find it). just let me know.

The cam i posted is the same as grumpy's. except its the Hydraulic version.. just a bit less lift(0.005"?).
But with aftermarket head am not sure but i think we can get a better cam.
Click to expand...

Ahh.. I was looking for something called dynomotion... Desktop Dyno 2000 I have come across.. Thanks :)
 
grumpyvette said:
I went back last night and spent well over an hour playing with software and testing various combos, and ran about 7 different solid lifter flat tappet cams and 10 compression ratios through my DD2000 software using a brodix cylinder head and a basic 383 with different cams and compression ratios but keeping the same dual plane intake headers etc. and trying to maximize results, if you look back to the previous page youll see the change,in the two software graphs, now the difference in off idle torque may not look nearly as significant as the boost in peak power, but combined with the lower vacuum to work the brakes Id still think the smaller duration cam makes for the slightly better driver, but theres no question that the slightly longer duration cam would make the car faster IF YOU USE THE 3.73:1 rear gears, higher stall and HIGHER STATIC compression, keep the compression at 9.7 and the results are noticeably lower for the longer duration cam, so the increase from 9.7 to 10.3 or so is significant here
http://www.claysmithcams.com/sbc-35...ax-power-6000-6200-rpm-peak-torque-3600-3800/

with decent heads and a low restriction exhaust you don,t need a great deal of cam duration to get good power
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insights Grumpy and for putting the time into the testing :)

I'm after the best of both worlds, which is probably fairly common... :rolleyes: The reality is that Frank the Tank will spend the overwhelming majority of the time cruising, with regular accelerations to show off and show up others, and heading to the strip less often to have fun and let off steam (hopefully not literally...). So, all out speed is not really the goal... The higher torque off idle is probably going to be a better option in the long run...

Did you come across a middle ground combo between the higher torque 9.7 compression and the higher hp 10.3 that worked well?

Out of interest, what would you estimate the difference between the two to be over a 1/4 mile? and with the engine and drive line combo that we're heading for now, how close do you think I could get to 13sec?
 
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-114142/
I ran low 13 seconds with a 383 SBC with this cam , in my 3400 lb corvette with my 250lb butt in it, bringing the weight to 3650lbs and its a WHOLE lot milder than any of the others linked too. if you read through these threads,youll see references too the fact that building a high performance street engine, that must both produce decent street manors and brisk acceleration on demand, is a vastly different concept to building a race engine that will be operated 90% of the time at WIDE OPEN THROTTLE
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tbucket-engine-project-dart-shp.3814/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/matching-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-to-look-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=428&sid=51f4ab8721f2eef9fbbe21c5d23203cf

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1249#p2673
 
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grumpys vette was about 500 -600 pounds lighter.... but again, the more aggressive cam profile will make some more power to compensate fro that... all of grumpys carefully thought out cam suggestions are VERY streetable... good vacuum, idle manners, immediate off idle torque output.

and again its a whole package... upgrading to a 3.73 ring and pinion gearset will go a long way to helping move all that weight effectively.

if you have the th350, use it... a basic rebuild kit is cheap and a performance rebuild kit is also quite cheap for the great parts you get. once you get the trans, converter and rear gears all in sync with your engine combo its gonna be a joy to drive like an asshole (i find myself stabbing the gas with the windows down under every overpass i can find just to hear the awesomeness banging off the walls.. gotta enjoy the little things)
 
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