JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
Cool. So, once I have the engine, trans and rear end package complete, I should be in the 13sec ball park
Decent street manors and brisk acceleration on demand... Frank won't know himself... Should be fun!
Building a S̶t̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶3̶5̶0̶ 383 for Frank the Tank…
- Thread starter JimmyDuncan
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Cool. So, once I have the engine, trans and rear end package complete, I should be in the 13sec ball park
Decent street manors and brisk acceleration on demand... Frank won't know himself... Should be fun!
JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
"Freeze plugs!" is the curse word of the evening....... Despite much reading and video watching, only one of them spun in place for an easy removal..... The rest went straight back and fell into the block... So, what I anticipated to be a relatively quick job turned into an ordeal.... and they're made out of a much tougher material than I thought.... that was hard work!
Luckily I had what I like to call XLBourbon (3 drinks in one big glass..), to give me the support I needed...
But, now all the freeze plugs are out, all that's left to come off Grimy before having a wash and heading off to the machine shop, are the oil galley plugs at each end and these bolts, one on each side of the block...
I'm not sure what they're there for, but these bolts appear to made of cheese.... and they both started to round off with very little pressure... which is obviously going to make for more drama...
I'm after tips on removing the two cheese side bolts and the 3 rear screw in oil galley plugs...
The oils galley plug removal options, as per the internet are, heat them up till very hot then melt some wax on them... let them cool, then remove.... Or, drill out the center and use an easy-out/bolt remover to remove them....?
What's the consensus? I have to purchase the propane torch for heating or the easy-outs... so both options will require another miscellaneous tool purchase....
Once I have the last of the removables off Grimy, I intend to take him down to the local car wash at night and spray him down with a $3 can of oven cleaner and then give him a thorough scrub and blast with the pressure washer... followed by a quick spray with WD40 and disappear into the night.... At least then he will be semi presentable for drop off at the machine shop...
That will feel like progress!
and they're made out of a much tougher material than I thought.... that was hard work!Luckily I had what I like to call XLBourbon (3 drinks in one big glass..), to give me the support I needed...
But, now all the freeze plugs are out, all that's left to come off Grimy before having a wash and heading off to the machine shop, are the oil galley plugs at each end and these bolts, one on each side of the block...
I'm not sure what they're there for, but these bolts appear to made of cheese....
and they both started to round off with very little pressure... which is obviously going to make for more drama...I'm after tips on removing the two cheese side bolts and the 3 rear screw in oil galley plugs...
The oils galley plug removal options, as per the internet are, heat them up till very hot then melt some wax on them... let them cool, then remove.... Or, drill out the center and use an easy-out/bolt remover to remove them....?
What's the consensus? I have to purchase the propane torch for heating or the easy-outs... so both options will require another miscellaneous tool purchase....
Once I have the last of the removables off Grimy, I intend to take him down to the local car wash at night and spray him down with a $3 can of oven cleaner and then give him a thorough scrub and blast with the pressure washer... followed by a quick spray with WD40 and disappear into the night....
At least then he will be semi presentable for drop off at the machine shop... That will feel like progress!
mathd
solid fixture here in the forum
The "cheese bolt" are for draining coolant from the block.
NPT thread running into the coolant passage, they are never easy to get out when they sat for years and as you found out they are a bit soft(probably brass) :/
Yes it's a PITA.
P.S. i HATE easy-outs.
And this kind of brass plug are empty in the middle
Never use 12 point socket on them. only tight and quality 6 point socket.
I know some people will hate what am going to say. But sometime you can take a smaller socket and hammer it (gently) on these soft brass plug for a good grip.
NPT thread running into the coolant passage, they are never easy to get out when they sat for years and as you found out they are a bit soft(probably brass) :/
Yes it's a PITA.
P.S. i HATE easy-outs.
And this kind of brass plug are empty in the middle
Never use 12 point socket on them. only tight and quality 6 point socket.
I know some people will hate what am going to say. But sometime you can take a smaller socket and hammer it (gently) on these soft brass plug for a good grip.
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They are going to be replaced with new brass ones, so don't worry about
taking care of them. I've used Vise-Grips when I have to, to remove them.
Heat would certainly help and there are so many times when you need heat.
Try to get a torch with a flexible hose, it really makes it much easier to get at
any angle. You can't lean a bottle over 90° or it will flame out. Oh and MAP
gas is hotter than propane.
taking care of them. I've used Vise-Grips when I have to, to remove them.
Heat would certainly help and there are so many times when you need heat.
Try to get a torch with a flexible hose, it really makes it much easier to get at
any angle. You can't lean a bottle over 90° or it will flame out. Oh and MAP
gas is hotter than propane.
JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
The "cheese bolt" are for draining coolant from the block.
NPT thread running into the coolant passage, they are never easy to get out when they sat for years and as you found out they are a bit soft(probably brass) :/
Yes it's a PITA.
P.S. i HATE easy-outs.
And this kind of brass plug are empty in the middle
Never use 12 point socket on them. only tight and quality 6 point socket.
I know some people will hate what am going to say. But sometime you can take a smaller socket and hammer it (gently) on these soft brass plug for a good grip.
Ahh... I hadn't really considered the need for 6 point sockets... But, that makes sense! Less pressure on the corners.. I'll go and get some today. I might need to get creative now I've already made a bit of a mess...
JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
Yep, one of the bolts may be a vice-grip job....
Ok, I'll look into my torch options and try the heat and wax option. Thanks!
JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
"as all experienced mechanics know and all Beginning mechanics will be forced too eventually realize its prime function of the 12 point socket, is to round off the edges of 6 point bolt heads thus forcing you to to spend the time required to gain valuable experience thru far more detailed and far more extensive dis-assembly and re-assembly of a great deal more components, in hard to access areas, as inevitably this far more extensive work is mandated to remove the stripped bolts, and replace them."
Hahahaa! Wish I had found this link 24hrs ago.... I'd have stopped after the first hint of problems... Seems that I learned the intended lesson that 12 point sockets were put on this earth to teach last night.....
Thanks Grumpy
JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
Well, one of the cheese bolts on the side of the block now has a round head.... vice-grips are not working either... I'll try some heat on it when I get a torch later this week.. (continuing to learn the 12 point socket lesson.. the new 6 point socket I bought today worked a treat on the other bolt that I hadn't already butchered..)
Quick question..
These two plugs/bolts:
This one near the oil filter port,
and this one at the front below the timing chain cover.
Do I need to remove them? (probably yes..) What is the name of the tool or socket I should search for to remove each of them?
Am I correct that if I continue to fail at removing any of the plugs or bolts, I can have the machine shop do this for me..? Although that will feel like giving in...
vice-grips are not working either... I'll try some heat on it when I get a torch later this week.. (continuing to learn the 12 point socket lesson.. the new 6 point socket I bought today worked a treat on the other bolt that I hadn't already butchered..)Quick question..
These two plugs/bolts:
This one near the oil filter port,
and this one at the front below the timing chain cover.
Do I need to remove them? (probably yes..
) What is the name of the tool or socket I should search for to remove each of them?Am I correct that if I continue to fail at removing any of the plugs or bolts, I can have the machine shop do this for me..? Although that will feel like giving in...
http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/sk-...x?kpid=30316&gclid=COjbofrwzcUCFcIRHwodoUUAuQ
heating the plugs with a torch then rapidly cooling them with this FREEALLOIL HEAT AND spray a few times in rapid succession usually frees them up to spin out with far less resistance to the wrench applied torque, the repeated expansion with high heat followed by rapid cooling draws the lubricant rapidly into the threads
http://www.freealloil.com/
order a couple cans, trust me youll order one and feel like an idiot when it runs out and you don,t have any left
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...en-bolt-and-screw-plug-removal.729/#post-1263
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/removing-rusted-broken-bolts.807/#post-43180
heating the plugs with a torch then rapidly cooling them with this FREEALLOIL HEAT AND spray a few times in rapid succession usually frees them up to spin out with far less resistance to the wrench applied torque, the repeated expansion with high heat followed by rapid cooling draws the lubricant rapidly into the threads
http://www.freealloil.com/
order a couple cans, trust me youll order one and feel like an idiot when it runs out and you don,t have any left
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...en-bolt-and-screw-plug-removal.729/#post-1263
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/removing-rusted-broken-bolts.807/#post-43180
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mathd
solid fixture here in the forum
That hole near the filter "i think" is the oil passage (for an oil pressure switch, or oil pressure sender) There is one more behind the intake near the distributor but driver side.
I usually take a ratchet with an extension and without a socket to remove them.(most of them are 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2 wich is just perfect)
The one at the front i can't tell the picture is a little too close.
They can usually be removed with a wrench(preferably a thick one) without too much problem...
Sometime just tapping/hitting on the wrench instead of prying on it works well for stubborn bolts and nuts.
Help break it loose without shearing it. Heat help too and lots of lube(vice-grip always make it worst, at least in my case it does).. if all else fail then a welder works very well too (except on brass).
Now about the one with rounded head.
I know there are special socket for that, i did not try them myself but i heard they work well.
I usually take a ratchet with an extension and without a socket to remove them.(most of them are 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2 wich is just perfect)
The one at the front i can't tell the picture is a little too close.
They can usually be removed with a wrench(preferably a thick one) without too much problem...
Sometime just tapping/hitting on the wrench instead of prying on it works well for stubborn bolts and nuts.
Help break it loose without shearing it
. Heat help too and lots of lube(vice-grip always make it worst, at least in my case it does).. if all else fail then a welder works very well too (except on brass).Now about the one with rounded head.
I know there are special socket for that, i did not try them myself but i heard they work well.
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JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/sk-...x?kpid=30316&gclid=COjbofrwzcUCFcIRHwodoUUAuQ
heating the plugs with a torch then rapidly cooling them with this FREEALLOIL HEAT AND spray a few times in rapid succession usually frees them up to spin out with far less resistance to the wrench applied torque, the repeated expansion with high heat followed by rapid cooling draws the lubricant rapidly into the threads
http://www.freealloil.com/
order a couple cans, trust me youll order one and feel like an idiot when it runs out and you don,t have any left
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...en-bolt-and-screw-plug-removal.729/#post-1263
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/removing-rusted-broken-bolts.807/#post-43180
Thanks.
It seems like these pipe plug sockets are not a common thing over here... Or, so it seems from a internet search... I'll keep looking, but, I may have to wait a week or two for an amazon delivery.. and $50 for a set that I'll probably not use often
grr..No Freealloil here either.. I'll make some of my own brew using the ATF and acetone mix
.
JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
That hole near the filter "i think" is the oil passage (for an oil pressure switch, or oil pressure sender) There is one more behind the intake near the distributor but driver side.
I usually take a ratchet with an extension and without a socket to remove them.(most of them are 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2 wich is just perfect)
The one at the front i can't tell the picture is a little too close.
They can usually be removed with a wrench(preferably a thick one) without too much problem...
Sometime just tapping/hitting on the wrench instead of prying on it works well for stubborn bolts and nuts.
Help break it loose without shearing it
Now about the one with rounded head.
I know there are special socket for that, i did not try them myself but i heard they work well.
So you reckon I might be able to undo one with a 1/4" extension and the other with a normal spanner? Their not designed for that, but I guess if I'm going to struggle to get a pipe plug socket set, its worth a crack... I'll probably use hex head plugs when I replace them anyway.. Thanks.
I'll have one more crack at the rounded off one, with heat and penetrating oil and vice-grips... Then I may look into the bolt removing sockets....
Who would have thought it would be so involved (and costly) to remove a few plugs and bolts...
The hidden costs can mount up... At least a lot of the tools I will have in future
mathd
solid fixture here in the forum
Yes they are not designed for that. so be carefull and if you feel it starting to slip STOP. and get the correct tool. but as i said, "usually" they will come out that way.
Get a thick wrench or 2 thin ones stacked one on top of the other.
Yes buying tools get expensive.. fast. but on the other hand, not buying them sometime it get expensive and time consuming.
Get a thick wrench or 2 thin ones stacked one on top of the other.
Yes buying tools get expensive.. fast. but on the other hand, not buying them sometime it get expensive and time consuming.
JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
Miscellaneous plug removal from the block is a fail......
I think I'm going to admit defeat on getting the oil galley plugs, 2 x other plugs near the fuel filter housing and the cheese bolt out and have the machine shop remove them all for me...
There have been casualties... A spanner, an allen head socket and a 1/4" socket extension all died valiantly in the battle.... I did manage to get the square head bolt from near the timing chain cover out, but the rest have resisted my heating with the new bernzomatic and my home made 50/50 ATF and acetone penetrating oil..... pft!
I started easy-outing the cheese bolt, but chickened out when it wouldn't budge.... I didn't want to break the easy-out off in the process...
Seized in bolts 1........ Jimmy 0............
I'll give the block a bit off a clean up and then organise to drop it off at the machine shop.. I still haven't decided who to use yet... I have a few recommendations, but need to call a few more and find someone that is going to be patient of my questions and inexperience...
I think I'm going to admit defeat on getting the oil galley plugs, 2 x other plugs near the fuel filter housing and the cheese bolt out and have the machine shop remove them all for me...
There have been casualties...
A spanner, an allen head socket and a 1/4" socket extension all died valiantly in the battle.... I did manage to get the square head bolt from near the timing chain cover out, but the rest have resisted my heating with the new bernzomatic and my home made 50/50 ATF and acetone penetrating oil..... pft!I started easy-outing the cheese bolt, but chickened out when it wouldn't budge.... I didn't want to break the easy-out off in the process...
Seized in bolts 1........ Jimmy 0............
I'll give the block a bit off a clean up and then organise to drop it off at the machine shop.. I still haven't decided who to use yet... I have a few recommendations, but need to call a few more and find someone that is going to be patient of my questions and inexperience...
mathd
solid fixture here in the forum
What brand of tool are you using?
it really sound like your using a cheap line of tool(rounding every bolt/nut/plug they touch and break after a little use).. you need high quality tools not mastercraft or jobmate kind of stuff.
Now its better let the machineshop remove them. easy-out always break and make it a real good mess from experience.
it really sound like your using a cheap line of tool(rounding every bolt/nut/plug they touch and break after a little use).. you need high quality tools not mastercraft or jobmate kind of stuff.
Now its better let the machineshop remove them. easy-out always break and make it a real good mess from experience.
this is one area where having EXPERIENCED friends and not rushing the process is MANDATORY and where being a member of a few local car clubs so you have instant local access to a few experienced members is usually worth the hassle of joining a club or two.
JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I have to admit they were cheaper tools...
Until now, I've gotten by with cheaper tools for odd jobs and such... But, I've learnt the lesson... I'll have to slowly upgrade with better quality tools.. Working on old cars (particularly old engines it seems), is much harder on tools than working on new cars and bit and pieces around the house...
JimmyDuncan
Well-Known Member
Yep, understood grumpy..
I've only damaged one bolt/plug so far (the dreaded cheese bolt...) the rest I've stopped before damaging the actual bolt... I joined the Chev club, but it seems like they're all based on the opposite side of the city. Next week, I'm going to my first meeting at another car club that meets 10mins from my home... so hopefully I can meet some friendly, helpful guys there .