C4 started running like crap after running out of fuel

Discussion in 'corvette related misc.' started by Grumpy, Jun 23, 2015.

  1. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

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    READ
    THE LINKS AND SUB LINKS,
    THEY CONTAIN A HUGE AMOUNT OF RELATED INFO
    PULL THE TROUBLE CODES

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/c4-c5-corvette-trouble-codes.2697/

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tff-8173nep/applications/year/1996

    http://members.shaw.ca/corvette86/FuelS ... gnosis.pdf

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/testing-leaky-fuel-injectors.7310/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ystem-trouble-shooting-flow-chart-info.11536/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/replacing-a-c-4-fuel-pump.33/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...lay-switch-locations-and-info.728/#post-43477

    http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-injection-pump-tester-92699.html

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    are you getting ignition spark at the plugs immediately, as the car initially cranks , or only once the keys released?
    whats the oil pressure read as it cranks?
    any FUEL LEAKING from the regulator if the vacuum hose is removed? (it could take 2-3 minutes to start dripping)?
    are you pulling and trouble codes?
    can you post clear pictures of each spark plug (labeled as to cylinder location number (1-8) ?
    are both injector fuses testing good?
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    replacement injector pig tails are available at rock auto for less than $5 each
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    HOW ABOUT verifying WHAT THE ISSUE IS (OR IS NOT) WITH A FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE!
    AND
    pull trouble codes
    RULE#1
    never assume a damn thing ISOLATE ,TEST AND VERIFY
    you might be amazed at the number of times I see guys who are spending a great deal of time trying to CURE a problem that does not really exist and ignoring a problem that does based on the erroneous assumption some component has failed.
    this is due to the fact they assumed they knew, what was wrong,
    but never bothered to test and verify what the true problem was, what they thought it really was , before buying and installing parts.
    This can and does result in the purchase and installation of Parts that in many cases they did not need , probably could not easily afford and only later found were not needed after the true issue was found after installing the new parts failed to correct the problem, and they were forced to look further, and were then forced to buy more parts that they only found they needed after testing, when installing the parts they thought they needed failed to resolve the issue!
    If you were local Id suggest you bring it by the shop, but thats obviously not an option, so you need to find the cause thru testing and correct it.
    you'll need to isolate it to,the individual cause yes you most likely over heated and damaged your fuel pump, fuel pumps are cooled by sloshing fuel and ideally you should never run less than a 1/4 tank so the pump remains well cooled.
    Id suggest hooking a fuel pressure gauge to the shrader valve on the fuel rail, you should see. 38psi-45 psi, 42 psi is the intended designed pressure
    buy a CHEVY SHOP MANUAL FOR YOUR YEAR CORVETTE!
    you always need a base line to start from, on a TPI corvette.
    a logical step by step approach and keeping accurate notes helps.
    youll NEED a multi meter, a shop manual and a timing light and fuel pressure gauge at a minimum, a few carefully done logical test's to isolate the cause and once found actions too correct it once , you know the cause rather than random guess work will provide the answer and cure rather quickly
    set and verify your ignition timing, pull trouble codes,set your tps and iac,, then check for vacuum leaks on the lines and intake,then get out your multi meter and verify all the sensors, chances are good its a defective heat sensor or defective o2 sensor, a logical step by step approach will lead you to the problem, youll be amazed at what youll learn reading links. use of a shop manual and multi meter can be very helpful
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    http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-dig ... 98674.html
    put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail on the shrader valve,

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    a vacuum and fuel pressure gauge is useful
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    performance issues or troubles like you describe, generally fall into 5 basic groups
    you can,t make intelligent choices with out knowing the facts about exactly how things are supposed to work, and testing to verify that they are working currently as they were designed too or not
    MECHANICAL--things like worn cam lobes , badly adjusted valves ,vacuum leaks, rusty distributor advance weights and springs,

    FUEL DELIVERY-- things like clogged fuel filter or defective fuel pump, bad fuel pressure regulator, wrong power valve or jets, defective fuel pumps and accelerator pumps in carbs

    IGNITION-- things like incorrectly set,timing advance curve or bad wiring , old spark plugs , burnt ignition wire, the wrong plug gap, cracked distributor caps etc.

    SENSORS,computer controls and electrical connections, too sensors and computer controls

    Improperly input or corrupt software when you have the option of changing the data
    HOW ABOUT verifying WHAT THE ISSUE IS (OR IS NOT) WITH A FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE!
    AND
    pull trouble codes
    RULE#1
    never assume a damn thing ISOLATE ,TEST AND VERIFY
    you might be amazed at the number of times I see guys who are spending a great deal of time trying to CURE a problem that does not really exist and ignoring a problem that does based on the erroneous assumption some component has failed.
    this is due to the fact they assumed they knew, what was wrong,
    but never bothered to test and verify what the true problem was, what they thought it really was , before buying and installing parts.
    This can and does result in the purchase and installation of Parts that in many cases they did not need , probably could not easily afford and only later found were not needed after the true issue was found after installing the new parts failed to correct the problem, and they were forced to look further, and were then forced to buy more parts that they only found they needed after testing, when installing the parts they thought they needed failed to resolve the issue!
    If you were local Id suggest you bring it by the shop, but thats obviously not an option, so you need to find the cause thru testing and correct it.
    you'll need to isolate it to,the individual cause yes you most likely over heated and damaged your fuel pump, fuel pumps are cooled by sloshing fuel and ideally you should never run less than a 1/4 tank so the pump remains well cooled.
    Id suggest hooking a fuel pressure gauge to the shrader valve on the fuel rail, you should see. 38psi-45 psi, 42 psi is the intended designed pressure
    buy a CHEVY SHOP MANUAL FOR YOUR YEAR CORVETTE!
    you always need a base line to start from, on a TPI corvette.
    a logical step by step approach and keeping accurate notes helps.
    youll NEED a multi meter, a shop manual and a timing light and fuel pressure gauge at a minimum,
    set and verify your ignition timing, pull trouble codes,set your tps and iac,, then check for vacuum leaks on the lines and intake,then get out your multi meter and verify all the sensors, chances are good its a defective heat sensor or defective o2 sensor, a logical step by step approach will lead you to the problem, youll be amazed at what youll learn reading links. use of a shop manual and multi meter can be very helpful
    [​IMG]
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    http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-dig ... 98674.html
    put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail on the shrader valve,

    [​IMG]
    a vacuum and fuel pressure gauge is useful
    [​IMG]

    performance issues or troubles like you describe, generally fall into 5 basic groups

    MECHANICAL--things like worn cam lobes , badly adjusted valves ,vacuum leaks, rusty distributor advance weights and springs,

    FUEL DELIVERY-- things like clogged fuel filter or defective fuel pump, bad fuel pressure regulator, wrong power valve or jets, defective fuel pumps and accelerator pumps in carbs

    IGNITION-- things like incorrectly set,timing advance curve or bad wiring , old spark plugs , burnt ignition wire, the wrong plug gap, cracked distributor caps etc.

    SENSORS,computer controls and electrical connections, too sensors and computer controls

    Improperly input or corrupt software when you have the option of changing the data
    obviously the basics always apply ,
    you need to think carefully, don,t assume anything.
    TEST AND VERIFY EVERY COMPONENT AND SENSOR FUNCTION!

    of checking the need to verify your actually getting fuel out of the injectors,
    your alternator produces 13.5 plus volts,
    your getting spark at the spark plugs ,
    your getting compression in all cylinders,
    ALL the sensors are fully functional,
    your getting at least 10 psi of oil pressure as the engine spins while its trying to start,
    you need to see the fuel pressure is consistently at 38-42 psi.
    you need to verify the fuel filter and fuel pressure regulator and return line are functioning as designed.
    verify all the electrical grounds are good,
    and you use a noid tester to verify your getting the injector pulse.
    what most people fail to do is test and verify, you can,t assume anything. youll want too verify, youve got no plenum or runner vacuum leaks, and the catalytic converters are NOT restricting exhaust flow.
    just because the injectors have pressure in the fuel rail, and get a pulse does NOT insure fuel flow thru them,
    and having fuel rail pressure does not insure ITS GOOD fuel,
    it can be tainted with water or rust particles in the fuel,

    preventing fuel atomizing in the cylinders.
    clogged catalytic converters can easily cause the engine to fail to flow air,
    checking the plenum vacuum and exhaust back pressure and reading the exhaust fuel/air ratio,
    use of an infrared temp gun, to verify cylinder exhaust temps are reasonably equal and a multi meter to set the TPS sensor and verify the ignition wire resistance will help.
    simple stuff like verifying the firing order that you just know is correct (which may not be , so VERIFY IT) get over looked
    and testing the coil and oxygen sensors and temp sensors sure helps

    After you verify theres consistent strong electrical spark at the spark plugs when your trying to stasrt the engine and fuel pressure is consistent at the fuel rails,and your getting at least 7-8 psi of oil pressure,
    IF you suspect a fuel delivery related issue, a good long spray of starter fluid into the throttle body and trying to start the engine with that extra fuel source may prove informative, if it trys to start with the extra fuel in the plenum but failed to start without it, its a good indicator the injectors are plugged or defective
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    if you suspect water in the fuel pull the inside of the shrader valve
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    with a valve tool, and slip 12 feet of braid re-enforced 5/16" pvc hose over the valve ,
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    clamp it with a screw clamp
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    on the valve so theres less chance of a fuel leak, and let the fuel pump push a 1/2 gallon of fuel out of the fuel rail into a clear glass container on the floor , allow it to settle for 15 minures and look for water to settle out of the fuel.
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    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-system-trouble-shooting-flow-chart-info.596/


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ard-starting-tpi-crossfire-or-lt1-vette.1401/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/c4-c5-corvette-trouble-codes.2697/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/replacing-a-c-4-fuel-pump.33/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/c3-c4-corvette-vacuum-diagrams.1773/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ckpressure-hurting-your-combo.495/#post-26600

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-kills-o2-sensors.3049/#post-51701

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...lay-switch-locations-and-info.728/#post-43477
    the basic tools youll need, are common mechanic hand tools plus....


    the correct matching SHOP MANUAL
    TIMING LIGHT
    IR TEMP GUN
    VACUUM GAUGE
    MULTI METER
    FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE
    COMPRESSION TEST GAUGE


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    http://www.professionalequipment.com/ex ... ermometer/
    Wide temperature range from -58 to 1832°F (-50 to 1000°C)
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    viewtopic.php?f=55&t=109
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    when your chasing potential problems ,with your c4 corvette, don,t get over whelmed!
    never assume a damn thing, ISOLATE ,TEST AND VERIFY, DON,T GUESS!
    its got several basic systems like fuel delivery, ignition, mechanical, sensors and likely problems like loose electrical connectors, burnt fuses, and the fact the cars 20-30 years old,to isolate the source of any problem,
    its simply a case of ISOLATE and TEST!
    PULL THE TROUBLE CODES ,
    AND VERIFY SENSORS ARE GIVING THE CORRECT READINGS.
    If the cars down on power ,but seems to run without an obvious miss, or stumble, in this case the more likely issue is a partly clogged catalytic converter, restricting exhaust flow, a couple partly clogged injectors or a worn cam lobe, a faulty OXYGEN SENSOR, , or maybe the fuel filters, partly clogged or your engines seeing a lack of effective fuel pressure, due to a leaking fuel pressure regulator.
    the point is you don,t know what is the cause of any problem , is until you TEST!
    but it could be a dozen other things and the correct course of action is simply ISOLATE and TEST!
    you NEED a factory service manual and a few tools!
    You NEED to have a logical step bye step test and isolate procedure!



    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-idles-and-sometimes-stalls.10688/#post-46303

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/c4-c5-corvette-trouble-codes.2697/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-system-trouble-shooting-flow-chart-info.596/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/maf-burn-off-relay-info.661/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...lay-switch-locations-and-info.728/#post-43477

    USEFUL LINKS TO RELATED INFO

    viewtopic.php?f=70&t=2798

    viewtopic.php?f=70&t=4683

    viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1015

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=9478&p=34812&hilit=leakdown+test#p34812

    viewtopic.php?f=70&t=202

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ory-service-manual-question.11202/#post-50528

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=609

    viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1639

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=268&p=324&hilit=power+valve#p324

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=196&p=231#p231

    THESE LINKS SHOULD HELP
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/c4-c5-corvette-trouble-codes.2697/#post-51440

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/replacing-a-c-4-fuel-pump.33/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-system-trouble-shooting-flow-chart-info.596/

    http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2993137

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-tpi-crossfire-or-lt1-vette.1401/#post-22501

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/replacing-a-c-4-fuel-filter.1470/#post-3304

    lots of related info on trouble scanners and software diagnostic tools

    viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3096&p=18612&hilit=scanners#p18612

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=6323&p=19860&hilit=computer+cable#p19860

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=8136&hilit=obdII

    http://www.haltech.com/product/platinum ... /sport-gm/

    viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2697&p=8434&hilit=computer+cable#p8434

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3074&p=8155&hilit=computer+cable#p8155

    viewtopic.php?f=32&t=9202&p=33208&hilit=computer+cable#p33208

    viewtopic.php?f=80&t=728&p=9217&hilit=+sensors+location#p9217
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  2. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2015
    Strictly Attitude likes this.
  3. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    Last edited: May 9, 2016

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