cleaning a rifle or revolvers bore and its effect on accuracy

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Ive tended to do a great deal of my hunting with cast bullets in 44 and 45 caliber rifles, with rifles pushing 280 grain-450 grain cast gas check bullets, now I got asked if shooting jacketed bullets in those same rifles effects the accuracy when the cast bullets are used, the answer is in my experience that the rifles need a good careful bore cleaning before you swap projectile types to maintain top quality accuracy.
generally if you tend to stick to properly sized and lubed cast bullets pushed to below about 1800fps cast bullets tend too work exceptionally well, , and theres little reason to go to the expense of jacketed factory produced bullets, Now,if you select a caliber and bullet design that is to be used at over about 2400fps, and especially over 2600fps, your generally going to be dealing in jacketed projectiles

youll need a caliber matching set of bore brushes to clean the bore in some cases
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/110696 ... ckage-of-3
a one piece steel cleaning rod helps
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/576235 ... -32-thread
bore cleaner /powder solvent
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/652259 ... -oz-liquid
clean cotton or linen patches
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/931182 ... ng-patches
patch holder attachments
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/411788 ... read-brass
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/399753 ... read-brass
lube
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/270323 ... oz-aerosol
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/188140 ... oz-aerosol
bore guide
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/322277 ... aliber-rod

If the rifle design allows clean the bore from the breach end of the barrel, a couple passes with a solvent soaked patch on a jag,pushed from breach to muzzle, followed by several lightly oil soaked patches will at times be all thats needed, most cleaning kits come with detailed instructions
Id concur that careful cleaning of the rifles bore , with careful cleaning with solvent and patches and barrel prep,
like use of fine abrasive copper fouling removal before and recurring frequently (at about every 5 shots , during the initial barrel break-in, )
on a rather frequent repetitive basis, during the first few shots can provide noticeably better barrel life and in many cases improves accuracy
careful cleaning with copper/powder solvent , a jag of the proper matching bore size , and a patch soaked in moly spray, before you shoot and after about every 5 shots during the initial trip to sight in the rifle helps accuracy in many cases

gunslick-bronze-pistol-cleaning-brushes-p1362674-1.jpg

p_749101629_2.jpg


https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/00155416

https://www.eabco.com/bore-paste.htm

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1...6b196a47325b7047460077&utm_term=1101100736089


WATCH VIDEO,S






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cast bullets in my experience generally shoot best from a properly cleaned bore having little or no copper fowling, in the rifling, prior to shooting cast bullets.
yet I know many of my friends who shoot 99% cast bullets, but almost religiously finish a shooting session with a couple jacketed slugs down the bore swearing it aids in the bore clean-up routine once they get home to clean their rifles.
now Ive been shooting 300 grain and 310 grain cast gas check slugs over 21 grains of H110 in my marlin carbine for decades and a couple passes thru the bore with a dripping wet,solvent soaked patch is generally all that required to leave clear smooth, sharp chrome like in appearance rifling. so I don,t shoot jacketed in that rifle.
On my old 45/70 marlin, shooting a couple jacketed bullets did tend to screw up accuracy with any following cast gas check 355 grain bullets until the bore was carefully cleaned,(increasing group size by more than 1") but one the bore was cleaned it would shoot cast gas check slugs consistently into less than 2' at 100 yards off a good rest.
458-355-gc.jpg

55 grains of IMR 3031 and this bullet makes a good effective deer and elk load, making it a hot 45/70, but far less abusive than a fully loaded 458 win.

http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_ ... licID=5866

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=7500

BTW Ive read several places that, FOR CAST BULLET SHOOTING, long term tests were done,and if you carefully clean fairly new barrel rifling and spray the moly dry lube sprays into the barrels then swap the moly into the rifling at fairly frequent and consistent bore cleaning it tends to reduce bore wear. lead build-up and increase accuracy with cast bullets used
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anytime you travel you should have a bare minimal rifle cleaning and basic screw driver/allen key and bore cleaning tool kit
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grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
I got asked how to avoid letting the rifling get fouled with lead if I shoot cast bullets?

the best way to avoid the job of removing lead in the bore is to prevent its build up,thats frequently done with proper sized gas check bullets that are well lubed, and generally not pushed to much past 1800fps-1900fps in my experience.
a good commercial powder solvent and a nylon bore brush and soaked patches are usually all thats required even after shooting 200 hand gun cartridges fired in my 44 or 357 revolvers or my 45acp pistol, or even a 357 mag or 44 mag marlin carbine.
a properly sized and well lubed bullet, with a gas check base, just won,t lead the rifling much if its not pushed excessively fast.
I long ago settled on a 95% wheel weights and 5% tin alloy and a good lube as the best way to avoid excessive leading.
generally size the bullets .001 over bore size after actually measuring the bore diam.
even pushed to fairly high velocities in my marlin carbine properly sized and lubed projectiles don,t cause much leading on a decent bore surface, that assumes your don,t allow rust in the bore by keeping it clean and well oiled in storage


this should help the youngsters that have yet to spend decades with a BAR in their hands, while sneaking through the canyons
you don,t need to disassemble as far as the video goes to clean and lube but knowing how certainly does not hurt.
learning the skills to properly maintain an expensive rifle is critical to equipment durability, peak accuracy and longer term consistent success

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=1180&p=16941&hilit=moly+bore+cast#p16941

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=4835&p=13213&hilit=moly+bore+cast#p13213

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=9875&p=37692&hilit=casting+bullets#p37692
 
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Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
btw I have got too point out that if you have a large bore, rifle or revolver that you want to hunt with ,using hard cast gas check bullets,
and you intend to both maximize accuracy,
and reduce or eliminate bore lead deposit's.
(especially if your using hard cast , gas check,
bullets to hunt with, like I've used for decades)

cleaning the bore Of each firearm with a lot of solvent soaked patches,
(old cotton sheets cut into 1"x3" rectangles work ok on most 44-50 caliber revolvers, or rifles )
and a brass bore brush until you have no trace of jacket or lead fouling,
then , after the bores squeaky clean, soaking a couple patches , until they drip, with moly spray and working it back and forth in the bore surface, and repeatedly soaking those patches with moly, to coat the rifling with a good film of moly, then swabbing the bore clean with a solvent patch and dry patch, seems to very noticeably reduce future leading and fouling and in many revolvers.
yes it leaves a darker semi shiny surface in the bore,
as theres a thin micro surface of embedded moly,micro particles,
that might not look as bright, as a polished metal surface ,
but it darn sure seems too form a slick, extra well lubricated ,
and fairly durable protective surface barrier that resists fouling.

this will all but eliminate leading if you use the proper sized and lubed gas checked cast bullets, cast from that 95% wheel weight and 5% pure tin alloy Ive used for decades, even in rifles where the velocity reaches up to about 1800 fps.
I can shoot both my 44 mag caliber revolvers and 44 mag caliber marlin carbine and 450 marlin caliber BLR ,458 LOTT, etc.
with cast bullets, and a solvent soaked patch shows powder residue,
but no leading in the rifling once the bores carefully been pre-treated with a good moly soak down,
(which I repeat on returning home with, each firearm, and after each cleaning after a hunting trip or trip to the local rifle range.)
caliber-jag.jpg

rodgunck.jpg

https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-clean-a-gun-1927314

http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrication/molybdenum_disulfide_characteristics.htm
Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving surfaces in contact, rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on the rifle bore surface, This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your rifles bore surface

squeeze4.png


The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your bore wall surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the bore to projectile surface contact

This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all micro bore imperfections making them smoother. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal
nosqueeze.jpeg

This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. The high pressures that occur between these moving surfaces that tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.


222645.jpg


molysp2.JPG

molysp1.JPG


http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrication/molybdenum_disulfide_characteristics.htm

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tance-to-use-hard-cast-lead-projectiles.9875/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...do-i-need-here-for-a-500-s-w-reloading.11917/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...you-cast-and-hunt-with-bullets-you-made.6802/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...lly-intending-to-use-just-cast-bullets.11155/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/casting-alloy-related.2286/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/some-of-my-favoite-hand-load-reciepts.1180/

 
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Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
If your shooting for tight groups or sighting in your rifle at the range,
remember, the stress harmonics in a rifle barrel steel,
tend to change the bullet impact, on a target,compared to where the sights are aligned,
as the barrel heats up,accuracy requires consistency,
heavy and fluted barrels are slightly less prone to this as increased mass and increased surface area,
marginally reduce the tendency for a barrel too flex as heat is increased
and because you have very little way of consistently maintaining any specific heat range,
other than letting the barrel return to room temperature,
its makes a good deal of sense to allow a barrel to cool between shots.
you can,t consistently have a warm barrel , like you might have at the range,
on the first shot while hunting either.
most guys I know fire one to three shots, then run a solvent soaked patch or two, through the bore,
followed by a dry patch or two and let the barrel return to room temp over 5-10 minutes before continuing shooting groups
this tends to allow you too keep more consistent groups and a similar to cool barrel impact point.
because warm air tends to rise, placing the rifle in a rack stacked vertically with the action open ,
tends to allow air to act like hot air in a chimney to carry heat up through and away from a warm rifle barrel faster,
than it would if the rifle was placed horizontally to cool.
 

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
"You are going to be on the blacklist now, and double secret probation."


sorry.. a lifetime of being a mechanical engineer ,
and having to explain things to people that either don,t know or in many cases,
just don,t care or want to know how the real world operates...
gets to me and at times makes me frustrated...
yeah, I know most of us that know how to do things correctly ...
get a good laugh at how some people are clueless.
but take heart!,
its been my experience, that most of those people totally ignore reality and experience ,
and helpful advice 99.9 percent of time


lets make a few non rifle loonie heads spin
btw I have got too point out that if you have a large bore, rifle or revolver that you want to hunt with ,using hard cast gas check bullets,
and you intend to both maximize accuracy,
and reduce or eliminate bore lead deposit's.
(especially if your using hard cast , gas check,
bullets to hunt with, like I've used for decades)

cleaning the bore Of each firearm with a lot of solvent soaked patches,
(old cotton sheets cut into 1"x3" rectangles work ok on most 44-50 caliber revolvers, or rifles )
and a brass bore brush until you have no trace of jacket or lead fouling,
then , after the bores squeaky clean, soaking a couple patches , until they drip, with moly spray and working it back and forth in the bore surface, and repeatedly soaking those patches with moly, to coat the rifling with a good film of moly, then swabbing the bore clean with a solvent patch and dry patch, seems to very noticeably reduce future leading and fouling and in many revolvers.
yes it leaves a darker semi shiny surface in the bore,
as theres a thin micro surface of embedded moly,micro particles,
that might not look as bright, as a polished metal surface ,
but it darn sure seems too form a slick, extra well lubricated ,
and fairly durable protective surface barrier that resists fouling.

this will all but eliminate leading if you use the proper sized and lubed gas checked cast bullets, cast from that 95% wheel weight and 5% pure tin alloy Ive used for decades, even in rifles where the velocity reaches up to about 1800 fps.
I can shoot both my 44 mag caliber revolvers and 44 mag caliber marlin carbine and 450 marlin caliber BLR ,458 LOTT, etc.
with cast bullets, and a solvent soaked patch shows powder residue,
but no leading in the rifling once the bores carefully been pre-treated with a good moly soak down,
(which I repeat on returning home with, each firearm, and after each cleaning after a hunting trip or trip to the local rifle range.)
but too be fair, I always carefully clean my rifle bores and repeatedly swab the bores after carefully cleaning the bores with a dripping wet , repeatedly soaked series of moly soaked swabs
41yAMGs4ruL.jpg

caliber-jag.jpg

rodgunck.jpg


its simple,
clean the rifle bore as usual with hoppeys solvent,
after and before each use,
then repeatedly swab the bore with patches soaking dripping wet with moly,
before you put the rifle away,
run a few clean solvent soaked patches through the bore before use.
over time the micro fissures in the bore get coated and filled with moly leaving a mirror surface


https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-clean-a-gun-1927314

http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrication/molybdenum_disulfide_characteristics.htm
Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving surfaces in contact, rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on the rifle bore surface, This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your rifles bore surface

squeeze4.png


The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your bore wall surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the bore to projectile surface contact

This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all micro bore imperfections making them smoother. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal
nosqueeze.jpeg

This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. The high pressures that occur between these moving surfaces that tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.


222645.jpg


molysp2.JPG

molysp1.JPG


http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrication/molybdenum_disulfide_characteristics.htm

 
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Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
one of my hunting buddies sons stopped by yesterday to show me the semi-auto rifle he recently purchased used at a local gun show.
this was a rifle with millions of copies made during and well after WWII,
now what I want too address here covers almost all firearms, his rifle was a mil-surplus semi auto, the exact model, caliber or type is really not important here.
he had a problem, in that it rather consistently jammed, generally a failure too feed from his only magazine.
I had a few brand new magazines, (still in cosmoline wax paper wrappers)
that I sold him at my cost ,$15 each
my cost back in the early 1970s
(as I no longer own a similar rifle)
but that magazine change,failed to change a thing.
the rifle still jammed rather consistently if intermittently,
so I showed him how to disassemble and clean the rifle, and the damn thing was filthy internally and obviously,
needed a few of the springs replaced as I'm sure they were 40-50 years old, and the internals were coated with a mix of stiff dry grease,
brake%20cleaner.webp

and an accumulation of fine rust.
I pulled it down, and used solvent and and a bore brush, tooth brush and small paint brush,
some spray brake cleaner,
be aware some grease and powder and copper bore solvents,
can effect or even
damage rifle stock and occasionally metal surface finishes
brakecl.png

and some spray lube, to remove decades of stiff filth.
I strongly suggested he purchase several new springs, especially the main recoil spring that made the bolt return.

brushw1.jpg

brushw2.jpg

brushw3.jpg

once the rifles action and bore was carefully cleaned, we had far fewer problems but it was very obvious that the bolt return spring, being 40 plus years old needed replacement/
gentlemen, all firearms require proper cleaning and lubrication on a regular basis and that it should be done after every use and at least once a year if its simply in storage.
obvously storage conditions mandate a reasonably moisture free environment and proper surface prep to prevent damage and rust.


yes reading links helps
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/category/gunsmithing/springs


https://cleangunguide.com/best-gun-lube-for-glocks-reviews/

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/gun-parts/replacement-springs

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-.../no-71-compression-gun-springs-prod26216.aspx

http://www.gun-parts.com/springs/

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...for-my-ar15-to-need-a-nudge.14937/#post-84249

http://reloadingpresso.com/best-gun-cleaning-solvents-and-oils/

https://www.shootingandsafety.com/best-gun-oil-reviews/

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-gun-oil-grease/

http://www.minutemanreview.com/best-gun-oils/

https://www.tacticals.org/best-gun-oils-lubes-reviews/

https://www.snipercountry.com/best-gun-oil-grease/
 
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Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
AR15 rifles tend to get filthy, they use direct powder gas impingement ,
that forces a small part of the burn powder gas,
back into the bolt to force in to cycle,
with use,the rifles action gets coated with burnt powder residue.
knowing how to correctly clean and lube a weapon,
your life might depend on is critical.
you can,t believe how many people shot their rifle,
until it starts to malfunction before even considering,
the need to disassemble and clean it!
basic disassembly, and cleaning is far from difficult.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/educational-zone-49-cleaning-lubricating-an-ar15-rifle/




 
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Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
BTW, if you shoot any
black powder or surplus ammo with corrosive primers
(most military ammo made before 1968 or so)
its a very good idea, to swab the bore and or any action components with liquid ammonia several times,
as it rapidly reduces copper fouling and corrosive salts left by corrosive primers and powder formulas

before you clean normally with hoppes and oil soaked patches that you normally use as liquid ammonia
dissolves the corrosive salts the primers and powders that were formally used leave in any gun (especially black powder)
don.t get liquid ammonia on blued surfaces


most grocery stores no longer carry strait liquid ammonia but ,
family dollar stores and Walmart do!

https://www.familydollar.com/homeli...gOwEa1GgtEGvuQ5EEo1OGVzPPa-8UMHxoCg90QAvD_BwE

running a couple ammonia soaked patches down the bore and using ammonia soaked patches
on the action parts before normal cleaning and oiling ,
will rapidly convince you why its mandatory with corrosive ammo.
as you'll see the tremendous amount of corrosive fouling & crud,
the wet ammonia patches remove from the surfaces
do not allow liquid ammonia to contact blued surfaces,
and if you do by accident ,rapidly dry, & clean with soap & water and re-clean with powder solvent and oil carefully
 
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