Grumpy I've been thinking about building or better yet having a rifle built. I have a couple rifles in all the calibers I would ever need for what I hunt and am thinking about building one most likely a big thumper in the .45 range nothing crazy maybe a barrel and trigger a little better than the factory does and thats a challenge. I dont want to spend a million dollars on it either. Whats your thoughts of this project
Custom Build Rifle?
- Thread starter rlphvac
- Start date
what is your main intent here?
if its saving money, don,t delude yourself,
I can absolutely assure you that assembling parts and any skilled gunsmiths labor charges,
will almost certainly and rapidly increase the cost of almost any rifle combo you might consider,
to greater than the cost of a perfectly functional off the shelf option.
you have lots of off the shelf options, in a decent 45 caliber rifle, especially if you are willing to purchase a lightly used rifle
most people do not hand load ammo and for that reason rifles in calibers like 458 win or 458 LOTT, will almost always have fired very few cartridges,
one ruger #1 single shot I know of locally has had three owners , in the last 30 years,
but I'm certain its had less than 160 shots through the barrel.
look up " 458 win mag rifle for sale, " theres ALWAYS a few available in good condition and lightly used for under $900
the original owner may have fired a box of cartridges, or two,
but then decided a black and blue shoulder was less than fun and the rifle goes up for sale.
this is the result of not using a vest with a recoil pad and a sling and not using the proper rifle recoil managing stance, proper recoil management is a learned skill set!
use of a recoil pad and sling are huge assets,
and in most cases a failure to understand a marginally reduced power hand load can reduce recoil significantly,
you don,t need to push a 500 grain bullet to over 2100 fps
a 45/70. 450 marlin or 458 win rifle pushing a 400-405 grain bullet to 1600-1900 fps will devastate anything that walks in north America,
and shoot far flater than required to hunt with,
and with proper handloads will shoot through any elk out at 200 yards or more!
If I had a desire to get a 45 caliber rifle I personally would look for a good used 458 win bolt action or ruger single shot or a new marlin cowboy lever action,45/70,
but a browning BLR in caliber 450 marlin is a GREAT option.
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-458-caliber-rifles.4672/
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1895-big-bore/model-1895cb
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=458 win mag
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=450 marlin rifle&Sort=13
Ive built several custom or restocked or re-barreled rifles
I built a custom 378 wby fiber glass stocked rifle, simply because you could not buy one at the time I did so, its very accurate, but you damn sure know when it goes off!
(even with a shoulder pad and padded vest)
I built several 1917 endfields with 35 whelen barrels when the actions and barrels were dirt cheap but even back in the 1970s-1980s they cost more than an off the shelf rifle in 338 win.
most were good rifles but you could always purchase something with similar power and accuracy off the shelf for a reasonable price.
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ou-so-dependent-on-your-weatherby-rifle.2403/
if its saving money, don,t delude yourself,
I can absolutely assure you that assembling parts and any skilled gunsmiths labor charges,
will almost certainly and rapidly increase the cost of almost any rifle combo you might consider,
to greater than the cost of a perfectly functional off the shelf option.
you have lots of off the shelf options, in a decent 45 caliber rifle, especially if you are willing to purchase a lightly used rifle
most people do not hand load ammo and for that reason rifles in calibers like 458 win or 458 LOTT, will almost always have fired very few cartridges,
one ruger #1 single shot I know of locally has had three owners , in the last 30 years,
but I'm certain its had less than 160 shots through the barrel.
look up " 458 win mag rifle for sale, " theres ALWAYS a few available in good condition and lightly used for under $900
the original owner may have fired a box of cartridges, or two,
but then decided a black and blue shoulder was less than fun and the rifle goes up for sale.
this is the result of not using a vest with a recoil pad and a sling and not using the proper rifle recoil managing stance, proper recoil management is a learned skill set!
use of a recoil pad and sling are huge assets,
and in most cases a failure to understand a marginally reduced power hand load can reduce recoil significantly,
you don,t need to push a 500 grain bullet to over 2100 fps
a 45/70. 450 marlin or 458 win rifle pushing a 400-405 grain bullet to 1600-1900 fps will devastate anything that walks in north America,
and shoot far flater than required to hunt with,
and with proper handloads will shoot through any elk out at 200 yards or more!
If I had a desire to get a 45 caliber rifle I personally would look for a good used 458 win bolt action or ruger single shot or a new marlin cowboy lever action,45/70,
but a browning BLR in caliber 450 marlin is a GREAT option.
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-458-caliber-rifles.4672/
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1895-big-bore/model-1895cb
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=458 win mag
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=450 marlin rifle&Sort=13
Ive built several custom or restocked or re-barreled rifles
I built a custom 378 wby fiber glass stocked rifle, simply because you could not buy one at the time I did so, its very accurate, but you damn sure know when it goes off!
(even with a shoulder pad and padded vest)
I built several 1917 endfields with 35 whelen barrels when the actions and barrels were dirt cheap but even back in the 1970s-1980s they cost more than an off the shelf rifle in 338 win.
most were good rifles but you could always purchase something with similar power and accuracy off the shelf for a reasonable price.
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ou-so-dependent-on-your-weatherby-rifle.2403/
Last edited:
https://www.hartbarrels.com/Articles.asp?ID=258
https://direct.kriegerbarrels.com/
http://mcgowenbarrel.com/
https://www.douglasbarrels.net/
http://www.shilen.com/barrelGrades.html
I used shilen on the last 4 rifles I had barrels replaced on
https://direct.kriegerbarrels.com/
http://mcgowenbarrel.com/
https://www.douglasbarrels.net/
http://www.shilen.com/barrelGrades.html
I used shilen on the last 4 rifles I had barrels replaced on
if your starting with a 30/06 basic action ,
Id strongly consider building a 35 whelen,
every time Ive built one, someone starts waving much more cash , then it cost me to build it,
when I'm broke and they find out they now own one.
and thats rather amazing ,
since they are not cheap to build, the last one I built was on a laminated stock ,
with a 22" fluted stainless barrel, it looked rather similar to this picture , but with an endfield action with the rear sights milled off and a green/grey laminated stock
http://rifle-stocks.com/
https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/
Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons
Posted By: StrayDog
Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons - 07/20/19
I'm not seeing as many at the range as a few years ago. Wondering if they are too heavy, or not as stable as composite stocks?
Posted By: hillbillybear
Re: Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons - 07/20/19
Weight is the big thing I have noticed. Never had any stability issues.. I do like them a lot.
Posted By: Coyote_Hunter
Re: Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons - 07/20/19
Pro
1. Strong
2. Stiffer than many/most synthetic stocks
3. More stable than wood
4. Variety of colors and color combinations
5. Often less expensive than wood
6. Heavier than wood (desirable for some shooting situations)
Con
1. Heavier than wood (not desirable for some shooting situations)
2. Not as stable as a good synthetic
For me the choice of laminate depends on the rifle and its usage. For my 6.5-06AI heavy-barrel, I intentionally chose laminate for the added weight and stiffness. This rifle is primarily a target rifle, although I've used it to take antelope.
The nutmeg factory laminate on my Ruger .223 is still there. It came that way (used) and I wasn't particularly concerned one way or another. Got it primarily to have something to shoot while my heavy-barrel Ruger .22-250, also in a factory laminate, cooled.
My .308 Ruger Scout came in a laminate stock, which I replaced with a factory synthetic. Weight and balance were my main concerns and the synthetic dropped the weight to 6.25 pounds per Ruger. Although it has a forward mounted scope, this rifle is intended for use with the factory ghost ring. With the 16.1" barrel it is a handy little rifle tht is a joy to carry. I could probably sell all my other rifles and be just as successful in the woods and sage using the Scout. (Not going to happen, though.)
One of my .30-06 rifles, a stainless Ruger, came in a nutmeg laminate stock that I replaced with a boat-paddle. This is a hunting rifle where weight is a concern and I wanted a stock that was impervious to weather.
Never had any problem with wood stocks and weather, but I float all my barrels and seal the wood. Still, I prefer synthetic for wet weather.
Posted By: StrayDog
Re: Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons - 07/20/19
Sometimes I have hunted in cold places like Canada, and noticed how cold a synthetic stock feels, almost as cold as the rifle barrel. I'm thinking the wood laminates would be better to have in hand or across my lap. The only con for me is with my conservative taste, the color combos I like are usually sold out for a short action m700.
Posted By: Oldelkhunter
Re: Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons - 07/20/19
Serengeti(are they still in business?) made a beautiful walnut laminate stock. They were pricey but they were beautiful.
Only Cons I see are Weight. If it is assembled and glued correctly it is probably stronger then a fiberglass stock.
https://www.stockysstocks.com/stocks-by-brand/stocky-s/stocky-s-accublocks.html
Id strongly consider building a 35 whelen,
every time Ive built one, someone starts waving much more cash , then it cost me to build it,
when I'm broke and they find out they now own one.
and thats rather amazing ,
since they are not cheap to build, the last one I built was on a laminated stock ,
with a 22" fluted stainless barrel, it looked rather similar to this picture , but with an endfield action with the rear sights milled off and a green/grey laminated stock
http://rifle-stocks.com/
https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/
Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons
Posted By: StrayDog
Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons - 07/20/19
I'm not seeing as many at the range as a few years ago. Wondering if they are too heavy, or not as stable as composite stocks?
Posted By: hillbillybear
Re: Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons - 07/20/19
Weight is the big thing I have noticed. Never had any stability issues.. I do like them a lot.
Posted By: Coyote_Hunter
Re: Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons - 07/20/19
Pro
1. Strong
2. Stiffer than many/most synthetic stocks
3. More stable than wood
4. Variety of colors and color combinations
5. Often less expensive than wood
6. Heavier than wood (desirable for some shooting situations)
Con
1. Heavier than wood (not desirable for some shooting situations)
2. Not as stable as a good synthetic
For me the choice of laminate depends on the rifle and its usage. For my 6.5-06AI heavy-barrel, I intentionally chose laminate for the added weight and stiffness. This rifle is primarily a target rifle, although I've used it to take antelope.
The nutmeg factory laminate on my Ruger .223 is still there. It came that way (used) and I wasn't particularly concerned one way or another. Got it primarily to have something to shoot while my heavy-barrel Ruger .22-250, also in a factory laminate, cooled.
My .308 Ruger Scout came in a laminate stock, which I replaced with a factory synthetic. Weight and balance were my main concerns and the synthetic dropped the weight to 6.25 pounds per Ruger. Although it has a forward mounted scope, this rifle is intended for use with the factory ghost ring. With the 16.1" barrel it is a handy little rifle tht is a joy to carry. I could probably sell all my other rifles and be just as successful in the woods and sage using the Scout. (Not going to happen, though.)
One of my .30-06 rifles, a stainless Ruger, came in a nutmeg laminate stock that I replaced with a boat-paddle. This is a hunting rifle where weight is a concern and I wanted a stock that was impervious to weather.
Never had any problem with wood stocks and weather, but I float all my barrels and seal the wood. Still, I prefer synthetic for wet weather.
Posted By: StrayDog
Re: Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons - 07/20/19
Sometimes I have hunted in cold places like Canada, and noticed how cold a synthetic stock feels, almost as cold as the rifle barrel. I'm thinking the wood laminates would be better to have in hand or across my lap. The only con for me is with my conservative taste, the color combos I like are usually sold out for a short action m700.
Posted By: Oldelkhunter
Re: Laminated Stocks What Are The Pros and Cons - 07/20/19
Serengeti(are they still in business?) made a beautiful walnut laminate stock. They were pricey but they were beautiful.
Only Cons I see are Weight. If it is assembled and glued correctly it is probably stronger then a fiberglass stock.
https://www.stockysstocks.com/stocks-by-brand/stocky-s/stocky-s-accublocks.html
Last edited:
35 caliber isnt out of the question or a 338 mag or a Lapua I just have the itch I'm going to an auction on the 1st I'll have to see what happens there I have looked at the list and some nice guns in this one I hope it isnt like the last one there was a real nice collection and 2 guys bought 90% of what was there and I have no idea of their plans because they paid 2-3 times my estimates on everything
a 35 whelen is a rather amazingly effective hunting tool if its loaded with the speer 250 grain bullet
https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullets/rifle-bullets/hot-cor-rifle-bullet/2453
and loaded to a 2450-2500 fps velocity
that has gained a very impressive reputation among the people I've hunted with for decades,
as the bullets designed to work very well at the normally encountered impact velocity and most rifles are very accurate if so loaded,
I can assure you that even at 200-250 yards its devastating on both deer and elk if you can place shots accurately
ruger #1 falling block and remington bolt actions and the 7600 remington slide actions,
are all in high demand in that caliber ,simply because everyone whos used one has come to respect and value ,
them for their effectiveness and consistent accuracy, and reasonably flat trajectory
Ballistic Calculator
INPUT VARIABLES
Ballistic Coefficient:0.45
Velocity (ft/s):2500
Weight (GR):250
Maximum Range (yds):500
Interval (yds):100
Drag Function ():G1
Sight Height (inches):1.5
Shooting Angle (Deg.):0
Zero Range (yds):235
Wind Speed (mph):0
Wind Angle (Deg.):90
Altitude (ft):0
Pressure (hg):29.53
Temperature (F):59
Humidity (%):78
Ballistic Results
sighted in at 235 yards or 3.6" high at 100 yards
your 2.3" high at 200 yards
your 6.8" low at 300 yards
or basically dead deer or elk with a center chest hold from point-blank, bayonet range out to 300 yards
I know from both personal experience and watching and helping dress out game for others its a damn effective cartridge choice,
and a considerably flatter trajectory than any 458 caliber rifle, yet its still a stomper on game.
yeah, a 338, 340 wby or 338 Lapua, might shot a bit flater or have more energy , but Ive used both a 35 whelen and my 340 wby and the results are very similar,
keep in mind most big games shot at under 250 yards, and the larger cartridges have higher recoil, more barrel wear and I don,t see any more lethality
https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullets/rifle-bullets/hot-cor-rifle-bullet/2453
and loaded to a 2450-2500 fps velocity
that has gained a very impressive reputation among the people I've hunted with for decades,
as the bullets designed to work very well at the normally encountered impact velocity and most rifles are very accurate if so loaded,
I can assure you that even at 200-250 yards its devastating on both deer and elk if you can place shots accurately
ruger #1 falling block and remington bolt actions and the 7600 remington slide actions,
are all in high demand in that caliber ,simply because everyone whos used one has come to respect and value ,
them for their effectiveness and consistent accuracy, and reasonably flat trajectory
Ballistic Calculator
INPUT VARIABLES
Ballistic Coefficient:0.45
Velocity (ft/s):2500
Weight (GR):250
Maximum Range (yds):500
Interval (yds):100
Drag Function ():G1
Sight Height (inches):1.5
Shooting Angle (Deg.):0
Zero Range (yds):235
Wind Speed (mph):0
Wind Angle (Deg.):90
Altitude (ft):0
Pressure (hg):29.53
Temperature (F):59
Humidity (%):78
Ballistic Results
sighted in at 235 yards or 3.6" high at 100 yards
your 2.3" high at 200 yards
your 6.8" low at 300 yards
or basically dead deer or elk with a center chest hold from point-blank, bayonet range out to 300 yards
I know from both personal experience and watching and helping dress out game for others its a damn effective cartridge choice,
and a considerably flatter trajectory than any 458 caliber rifle, yet its still a stomper on game.
yeah, a 338, 340 wby or 338 Lapua, might shot a bit flater or have more energy , but Ive used both a 35 whelen and my 340 wby and the results are very similar,
keep in mind most big games shot at under 250 yards, and the larger cartridges have higher recoil, more barrel wear and I don,t see any more lethality
Im not sure that Ive ever shot a deer at 150 yards and never 200 yards where I hunt a long shot is possible but not very likely and from my tree stand never. I will be moving my stand this spring because they are removing an old gas well I'm not happy about this that stand has treated me good in 6 years hunting it I have got a 10 point 2 eights and a seven and I guess about 10 doe were taken from my stand not all the doe were shot by me it seems everyone that hunts there wants to use my stand
Still on the table I kind of took a detour I bought a Sig 1911 in 10mm then a friend offered me a Sig Tribal ultra compact for 1/2 price unfired so I got that too its a 45ACP the Sig 10mm shoots fantastic about what I expected out of a Sig but the 45 with a 3 inch barrel shot even better and I didn't expect that out of a 3 inch barrel 45ACP. I'm still working on loads for the 10mms I have. Both are 1911 style 1 is a Ruger and the other is a Sig and I'm really impressed with both but I need to up my loads I've tried 4 powders all 4 about mid scale on the chart Accurate#9, Zip, Unique, and Titegroup all of them are a lot milder than the factory ammo I bought I need to start working them to their sweet spot the Titegroup load seems the most promising I need to look back to your recommendations on the load data you posted I'm going to place a powder order shortly I may as well get 1 of every one made. The way I'm going its going to be a busy summer at the farm I need to find loads for the Kimber 6.5 Creedmoor, the Henry 45/70, the 7mm Mag and the 10mm and whatever else I get before then I'm sure before winter ends there will be something come along that I can't live without . Sometimes I wish my buddy at the pawn shop would quit calling me every time he gets a gun in that he knows that I will like. I have bought about 30 guns off him in the last few years but they were all good deals and I'm a sucker for a good deal
ive used blue dot in 10mm almost exclusively for good results
Accurate Arms manual ( 2010 data ) using no 9 powder---------
155gr AA#9 15.9gr 1414 fps
165gr AA#9 15.0gr 1341 fps
180gr AA#9 13.5gr 1242 fps
180 Speer JHP: AA#9 14.5gr 1290fps 32,600psi ( AA Manual #2)
180 XTP: AA#9 13.5gr 1242fps 34,100 psi ( AA Manual #2 )
200gr AA#9 12.5gr 1170 fps
Hodgdon manual (2010 data) -------------------------
135gr Autocomp 9.5gr 1476fps 34,500 psi
155gr Autocomp 8.9gr 1362fps 35,700 psi
155gr IMR 800-X 9.8gr 1350fps 30,000 psi *NOTE PRESSURE
180gr IMR 800-X 9.7gr 1320fps 34,200psi ( 2004 IMR manual )
180gr Longshot 9.5gr 1287fps 34,800 psi
200gr Longshot 8.2gr 1172fps 35,000 psi
***note Autocomp is a Winchester powder
Accurate Manual (edition 3.2.2) re AA#7
180gr Hornady XTP (JHP) with a max of 10.7 grains AA#7
180gr Ranier plated HP, with a max of 11.0 grains AA#7
190gr Sierra FPJ with a max of 11.2 grains AA#7
Alliant Manual (2010 data)-------------------------
180gr Speer GDHP bullet
180gr Blue Dot 11gr 1295fps
165gr Speer GoldDot Power Pistol 10gr 1314fps
Hornady 7th edition Manual------------------------
Hornady’s 180gr bullets MAX: AA #7 12.0 gr @ 1200 fps
155gr HP XTP MAX: AA#7 14.6gr.
Speer #14 Manual-------- 5” barrel
180gr GDHP or TMJ-FN MAX BlueDot 11.0gr @ 1295 fps.
Strangely, this Speer manual does not list AA No.9
for 180gr bullets, but does for some of its lighter bullets in 10mm.
https://www.speer-ammo.com/download...gun/40_caliber-10mm_400_dia/10mm_Auto_180.pdf
https://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf
Last edited:
Grumpy I loaded up some 10mm loads and got to the range yesterday most of my loads were towards the high end but not max loads all powders shot better than the lower charged loads I shot last week I used Accurate #9, Unique, Tite Group, Zip, and CFE Pistol all shot good and felt good on recoil but the CFE Pistol charged to 6.9 gr. was keyholeing out of the Sig 1911 but not out of the Ruger 1911.I plan on reducing the load a tenth at a time to see when it stops keyholeing there are no signs of overpressure I do plan on calling Sig and Ruger and find out their twist rates they must be different what do you think
Ive tried a dozen powders, and the 10mm pistols, and various loads,
the pistols I have used to prefer blue dot and 2400, powders,
and 10mm like below and near the higher pressures and while unique
is also decent, it tends to pressure peak fairly easy.
as to the key-hole issue ,
it may simply be the bullet diameter of the sig barrel or rifling depth or twist rate and/or internal bore size,
are not ideal for the projectile your using,
Id try a bit hotter load as that tends to bump up the projectile dia.and actual speed of rotation that stabilizes the projectile
each pistol is a bit different in what it likes, one reason cast bullets,
that can be cast from different alloy's and sized a bit differently,
can at times shoot far better than commercial projectile versions,
especially in revolvers but its often found to be true in semi autos also.
btw the longer the projectile length to bore diameter the faster the rifle twist rate required,
you might find the SIG is only accurate with the 165 and lower weight projectiles
the pistols I have used to prefer blue dot and 2400, powders,
and 10mm like below and near the higher pressures and while unique
is also decent, it tends to pressure peak fairly easy.
as to the key-hole issue ,
it may simply be the bullet diameter of the sig barrel or rifling depth or twist rate and/or internal bore size,
are not ideal for the projectile your using,
Id try a bit hotter load as that tends to bump up the projectile dia.and actual speed of rotation that stabilizes the projectile
each pistol is a bit different in what it likes, one reason cast bullets,
that can be cast from different alloy's and sized a bit differently,
can at times shoot far better than commercial projectile versions,
especially in revolvers but its often found to be true in semi autos also.
btw the longer the projectile length to bore diameter the faster the rifle twist rate required,
you might find the SIG is only accurate with the 165 and lower weight projectiles
Last edited:
I don't see me hunting with this more of a shooter for the range and farm and the lighter bullets could be great for that for armaments and snakes or groundhogs although a rifle would be preferred I cant carry a rifle while brush hogging or weedwacking the next time I order bullets I will try 165 gr. do you think the 155 xtp hornadays would be worth loading I bought them for loading 40 cal. but I really haven't took a 40 out for a few years and converted most of them to 9mm
reminds me of the old joke'
guys conscience is bothering him, so he sends an e-mail to his neighbor
he sends the e-mail and 15 minutes pass he hears a couple muffled gunshots from next door,
and quickly re-reads the e-mail, and rapidly sends a second e-mail
guys conscience is bothering him, so he sends an e-mail to his neighbor
he sends the e-mail and 15 minutes pass he hears a couple muffled gunshots from next door,
and quickly re-reads the e-mail, and rapidly sends a second e-mail
sorry about the confusion and the typo... F$%^^&..... spell check....
I re-read the previous email and caught the typo,
I MENT I was using your WIFI,not WIFE