damper tool

[grumpyvette]

RARELY DO I FEEL LIKE CRYING, but I got a question asked...
"is it ok to use a large hammer and block of wood to beat the damper back onto the crank when doing a cam swap"
that question gets me that frustrated,
HELL NO! THATS THE WRONG ROUTE AND IT MAY DAMAGE THE CRANK!
IN FACT ITS 100% SURE TO SET UP EXTRA STRESS IN THE FRONT CRANK JOURNAL
yes its been done 1000s of times,yes it may not cause a problem if your nor running under high rpms and stress loads,
but it is a great way to eventually damage the crank or thrust bearing,
and should be avoided if the crank snouts threaded for a retaining bolt
IF you have a crank thats not threaded for an installation tool,
AND YOUR INSTALLING A STOCK STYLE ELASTOMER DAMPER
heating a damper in boiling water for 15 minutes, to allow it to expand with heat .
boiling water will uniformly and efficiently heat the damper without potentially over heating the damper to the point its internal components or materials may be damaged like a heat gun, torch or oven might......and at the same time, packing the crank snout in DRY ICE to contract its size with cold will generally allow the two components to slide together if your quick and use insulated oven mitts

to hold the damper and a dead blow hammer to fully seat it, but you must do this very quickly before the two temps normalize
DRY ICE -109 degrees Fahrenheit
boiling water = about 212F
difference- about 320F usually the TEMPORARY dimensional difference in the two component temps allows .002-.003 more clearance between the inner balancer hub bore and contracted crank snout outer diameter.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/stripped-crank-threads.1798/#post-5680

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w89711/overview/

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/W897...207804007271&gclid=CI_gnuuKgs0CFQ6maQodXK4BPA
I,ve generally found that if you've stripped the SBC crank snout threads the best answer is to drill and re-thread to the standard and larger BBC crank snout bolt threads size

THE TOOL ABOVE WILL REMOVE AND INSTALL DAMPERS WHEN THE CORRECT COMBO OF PARTS ARE ASSEMBLED

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-6505

http://www.fluidampr.com/products/domestic/

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/charts/damchevy.htm

https://innovatorswest.com/faq.html

these tools work well, fit most engines and if you do break off a thread adapter you can order a replacement without needing to pay for the whole new tool, and keep in mind the threads strip or adapters break if the dampers OVER TIGHTENED,ALL TOOLS WILL BREAK IF OVER STRESSED, this CAN generally be avoided with simply taking a few accurate measurements and use of some marvel mystery oil on the damper, crank and the installing tool threads
Yes I busted one thread adapter years back , but it was a P.I.T.A. waiting on a replacement and I learned not to over tighten the tool, and watch carefully on the measurements and have not had that happen for 30 plus years keeping the tool and damper and crank snout well lubed makes it slide on easier
measuring and checking the interference fits correct helps

boiling water = about 212F will expand the hub bore

packing the crank snout in DRY ICE at -109F FOR 15 MINUTE's will contract the outer
dimension

DAMPER PULLER OR REMOVAL TOOL BELOW

DAMPER INSTALLER TOOL BELOW

heres the basic installation tool

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66514

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-61740

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66515

look at the picture carefully, the tool is available from several sources

http://www.jegs.com/p/Proform/Proform-H ... 5/10002/-1

http://toolsandmore.us/oem27144-harmoni ... aller.aspx
heres how to use it...
the small 7/16 thread ,on the tool threads into the crank, the damper slips over the tool, the large washer style bearing slips over the tool followed by the solid washer followed by the large nut that threads on the tool, the back of the tool is normally a 9/16 or 5/8 hex this is held with a box end wrench to keep the engine from turning, the large nut is usually a 1 1/8" nut and it is tightened with an open end 1 1/8" wrench or a adjustable wrench against the two washers drawing the damper onto the crank snout! lube the threads on the tool, the inside of the damper and crank snout with oil before starting. the damper will normally slide on about 1/4 of the way bye hand then the tool is needed to draw the damper on the last 3/4 of the distance, don,t over tighten the tool the 7/16" thread will snap off in the crank after the damper bottoms out on the lower timing gear if you do!,
NEVER USE A HAMMER AND BLOCK OF WOOD TO DRIVE THE DAMPER ON, YES THOUSANDS OF GUYS THINK THEY DID IT WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS BUT...
IT WILL DAMAGE THE THRUST BEARING CLEARANCES,
IT CAN BREAK THE ELASTOMER TORSION RING ON STOCK DAMPERS
IT CAN CAUSE THE INERTIAL RING ON FLUIDAMPER TO BECOME JAMMED INTERNALLY
IT CAN CAUSE THE DAMPER TO FAIL.
IF THE DAMPER FAILS THE CRANK WILL EVENTUALLY BE DAMMAGED
IT GREATLY STRESSES THE CRANK SHAFT
IT CAN DAMAGE THE CRANKS TRANSMISSION PILOT BEARING
IT CAN DAMAGE THE TRANSMISSION
ALMOST EVERY TYPE OF DAMAGE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOWS UP RIGHT AWAY, BUT IT WILL DAMAGE THE PARTS LISTED AND THERE'S THOUSANDS OF GUYS THAT ARE WONDERING WHY THOSE PARTS FAILED 6-24 Months LATER WITH NO CLUE AS TO THE CAUSE!
ASK YOURSELF THIS QUESTION, IF CRANKSHAFTS THAT ARE A FEW THOUSANDS OUT OF LINE I.E. NOT PERFECTLY STRAIT ARE BENT/STRAITEN WITH A LEAD HAMMER BY CRANK MANUFACTURES (and yes that's how its done) AND CRANKS THAT ARE DROPPED ON A CONCRETE Floor SOMETIMES BEND SLIGHTLY ,(happens all the time) WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT BEATING ON THEM WITH A HAMMER AND A BLOCK OF WOOD WONT DAMAGE THEM? AND WHILE WERE AT IT WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO SOME GUY YOU CAUGHT BEATING ON YOUR ENGINE BLOCK WITH A HAMMER? WELL WHAT DO YOU THINK THE CRANKS DOING TO YOUR MAIN CAPS WHEN YOU BEAT ON THE CRANK? PROPERLY USED THAT INSTALLATION TOOL CAN EXERT OVER 15 TONS OF PRESSURE TO SLIDE THE DAMPER ON, IF IT WONT SLIDE ON, THERE'S A PROBLEM! FIND IT AND FIX IT .....DON,T BEAT ON THE DAMPER/CRANK ...........if your cranks not threaded GET IT THREADED next time the cranks out, in the mean time pack the crank snout in dry ice and the damper in boiling water.....once both at at the correct temp. spray the inside surface of the damper with LIQUID WRENCH and using pot holders, to prevent burns slide it quickly onto the crank snout before the temp difference equalizes, and yes it may take a few whacks with a plastic hammer but generally it slides on easily UNTIL the temp difference equalizes

the problem here is that the damage that occurs during hammering the damper onto the crank is not always immediately apparent and it may or may not be critical,depending on many factors, and thrust bearing damage only tends to show up over time.
but just because the damage or stress that was transmitted to the crank, does not result in immediate parts failure doesn,t mean there's no damage being done.while were discussing bent crank snouts , IM always amazed at the yahoos that thing that driving a damper onto a crank with a 5 lb hammer and a block of wood is not going to result in eventual damage to thrust bearings and main caps and crank alignment, theres not the least doubt that a couple off center impacts can change the crank journal alignment, or off set the bearing clearances in some cases,
if your having a good deal of a problem, getting a damper to slide onto the crank snout with the correct tool and an oiled crank, you might have the wrong damper so check carefully ,, the next step one is to CAREFULLY measure both the crank snout diam. and damper hub inner diam.in some cases packing the crank in a bag of dry ice and heating the damper in boiling water changes the interference, enough that the crank slides into the damper far easier, and you won,t be the first guy that needs to have a machine shop hone out a damper to allow it to fit
the crank snout should be only about .0005-.001 larger than the hole in the damper

 

[grumpyvette]

Ive been asked how the early non-drilled crank/dampers were installed?
Im not sure how the factory did it, but I'D assume a hydraulic press, was involved.
and if you have an early crank not drilled for a damper retention bolt and you have the option Id strongly suggest you get the local machine shop to drill and tap the crank snout, your chances of doing it correctly centered with hand tools in your garage is very low.
if you do manage to strip the threads on an existing crank you can get it drilled and tapped to a larger thread size, you certainly won,t be the first guy to use a larger bolt size

The bolt will work if you start out with a longer bolt and then transition to the shorter one. In the old days, before the crank was threaded, GM called for a big hammer to install the thing.

while thats true in most cases, if its only done a few times and your very selective about the thread engagement, its also true that using the bolt to pull the damper into place frequently causes problems,
FACT bolt threads must have about 1.5 times the diameter of the bolt threads fully engaged too equal max tensil strength, any less length of threads engaged significantly reduces the resistance of the threads to strip out under tension.
look at the two bolts below, the upper GRADE #8 ARP bolts stronger but with a minimum of 1.5 times its thread diameter already threaded into a crank snout ,too reduce the chance of stripping threads how much farther can it be screwed in, to pull the damper in place before the threads bottom out?

if the threads bottom out and you applie torque shearing off the bolt or stripping the threads in the crank is a common result

using a bolt and a washer to draw on a damper can occasionally allow a slightly out of alignment or cocked damper to bind on the crank snout this frequently results in stripped threads a sheared bolt or a broken damper

beating on a damper with a hammer will frequently induce stress cracks that can and do eventually result in crank shaft or thrust bearing failures, these may not become apparent for tens of thousands of miles but are there none the less and should be avoided

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-can-teach-you-a-good-deal.12400/#post-61889

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ati-951501

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/charts/damchevy.htm

https://innovatorswest.com/faq.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-cam-and-shifting-the-lca.10553/#post-44949

Measure the crank-snout diameter with a micrometer (above left). Ours measured 1.600 inch, which is right on spec. Then use a dial-bore gauge to determine the inside diameter of the Fluidampr damper (below). Ours came in 1.599-inch, resulting in a .001-inch interference fit. This is the right amount of clearance to provide a good snug fit on the crankshaft, but still be able to install and remove without difficulty. Another method of measuring the damper hub ID of your is with a snap gauge (above right). After setting the gauge, the micrometer is used to to determine the final measurement. In this case, the same measurement as the dial bore gage was reached.
READ THIS THREAD ALSO
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=83&p=106&hilit=+damper+balancer#p106

but for the back yard or home mechanic ,the rather obvious choice is to have a machine shop drill and thread the crank when you get the assembly balanced OR by placing the damper in boiling water and the crank snout in a bag of dry ice,
(many grocery stores sell dry ice by the pound) before you quickly pull the damper out of the boiling water and use oven gloves to install the damper , on the frozen crank ,during the short time frame while the residual heat expands the damper inner diam. and the freezing cold contracts the crank snout diam. and makes assembly of the non-drilled early cranks, snout to the damper far easier,( don,t oil it , use a bit of WD40 spray on the hot damper not on the crank snout as cold tends to thicken the oil and reduce the clearances.(just remember its a quick deal before the temps equalize so have a big dead blow mallet handy.)

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-lb-neon- ... 41800.html
IVE seen guys use heat guns but you run a chance of damaging the elastomer ring if its heated too far, boiling water has the limit of 212F which protects the damper as oil temps, and normally engine operating temps always exceed that heat level.
just be aware you need to work quickly and yes you may need a couple quick whacks with a dead blow mallet to get it fully seated, but once the heat/cold stabilizes youll have a time getting them apart
http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampe ... ctions.htm
there is supposed to be about a .0001 -.0002 INTERFERENCE fit! so the damper has far less tendency to spin on the crank snout or work the woodriff key loose, you can generally polish the crank snout, and internal damper hole with a flap wheel and 400 grit sand paper enough to get a smoother surface, then, place the damper in boiling water to heat and expand it and oil its mating surface, its almost always far easier too use the correct damper installation tool,on a crank with a threaded snout and a damper instal tool, pick the damper up with oven mitts so you don,t get burned, use the tool to install it, and don,t get LAZY and try to use the damper retention bolt to draw the damper on as that frequently results in stripped threads on the crank, and be aware that the tool makes seating the damper slide on deceptively easy, don,t over tighten it as the tool can snap off in the crank snout rather easily if over tight

link to order replacement parts you may loose or break on that damper tool
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-4531/replacementparts


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F5LIW4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.otctools.com/products/harmonic-balancer-pullerinstaller-set

if you buy a damper/installation/removal tool get one thats universal,
with interchangeable threaded tip inserts, yes you will eventually over tighten the tool and bust the REPLACEABLE INSERT, these are generally available for about $15 each individually (don,t bother too ask... yeah Ive screwed that up a couple times in the last 55 years, and had to order spare replacement inserts)
use of a dial caliper and careful measurement tend to avoid over tightening the tool, and your almost certain to strip crank snout threads if you think you can use the damper retention bolt to pull the damper onto the crank snout, the tool allows all the threads to bear the stress loads before the stress is applied vs only a few with the retention bolt used.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/W89711/10002/-1

http://www.tavia.com/cat12.html#1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F5LIW4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.otctools.com/products/harmonic-balancer-pullerinstaller-set
damn the gal in that video, makes that process, look a whole lot more difficult in the video that it generally is,
and yes its very easily possible to over tighten the interchangeable central adapter screw,parts
if your not careful, and yes they do sell replacement adapter screws
(never lend tools to your friends, or you'll be buying , and replacing those replacement threaded, adapter components)
use moly grease on tool threads

read these threads and links
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=223&p=8024&hilit=damper+tool#p8024

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3554&p=13385&hilit=damper+tool#p13385

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repair ... 52800a7dbe

http://www.go-fast.org/z28/damper.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex_yJ_V5 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9LNht9E ... ure=relmfu


http://www.jegs.com/p/ATI/ATI-Super-Dam ... 7/10002/-1
MOST NASCAR TEAMS USE ATI DAMPERS AND THEY CERTAINLY HAVE THE TEST DATA TO SUPPORT THE CHOICE

theres nothing PREVENTING you from drilling or having the crank drilled and tapped at some point, but because youve yet to do so, Id suggest use of DRY ICE on the crank snout and boiling water poured over the damper and some careful use of a block of soft pine and a hammer to install the current damper AFTER verifying clearances, done quickly before the temps equalize its done with just a couple quick whacks, while not ideal, its far better than beating the damper half to death driving it on

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=41799

[quote-
Indycars]
Since I'm going to be replacing the damper bolt with the bigger BBC component, I'm also going
to upgrade the balancer while I'm there.

I'm trying to decide if the gold Race Series dampers is any better than the black Streetdampers ....
without the consideration of money.

I found the below info on the Fluidampr website.

http://www.fluidampr.com/what/

Fluidampr Dampers Performance over 6,000 RPM

the damper is engineered to allow for quick acceleration and the rapid increase in torsional vibration frequency associated with higher rpms. There is a clerical difference between “meets SFI standards” and “SFI certified”. The former means we construct our Streetdampers to the same rigorous standards as those that are SFI Certified. The later means, we have worked diligently with SFI Foundation Inc., who sets the rules and regulations for most racing organizations, to have our Race Series dampers independently tested, officially certified and regularly scrutinized by SFI. SFI Certified is a very scientific and costly endeavor to ensure that the construction of our product will hold up in the racing world. Regardless of terminology, the engine owner wins because our Streetdampr are manufactured to the same high level race quality outlined by the SFI Foundation Inc.

I found this, but it's still not conclusive about which damper would be better.

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine-harmonics/ati-fluidampr-tci-offer-expert-damper-advice/

LeBarron: Fluidampr offers a value-priced line of non-SFI rated Streetdampr brand dampers for popular small block Chevy and Ford applications. Streetdampr products can be used from mild to heavily modified applications whenever SFI 18.1 specs are not required because they provide similar benefits of broad range protection coverage and superior durability as Fluidampr just without a final protective finish. With some select applications we also offer different diameters and weights. It’s a compromise; a larger, heavier damper will provide more damping but slower throttle response and a smaller, lighter damper will improve throttle response but provide less protection. It is always best to consult with your engine builder or damper manufacturer if you need assistance.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flu-620101
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flu-62260d/overview/

Any Opinions ??? Which one would be better ???

If I was making the choice ID call fluidamprs tech line and ask....
several questions ,
simply because
if your not sure its simply that you don,t have enough facts,
to make a logical fact based decision.

For Technical Support and Product Information Call or E-mail us at:
Phone: (716) 592-1000
Email: sales@fluidampr.com
Office Hours:M - Fr 8:00am - 4:30pm EST.
If after hours, please leave a message and we will get back to you as soon as possible.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flu-62260d/overview/
but ID certainly be looking harder at the gold version simply because it looks like theres,
been a few minor improvements made and the cost difference is insignificant in the long term
be aware theres internal and externally balanced damper and several diameters from about 6.25", 7" and 8" so ask pointed detailed questions, and know what you need.