taylorce1 said:This one was mine, it never shot as well as I'd have liked. Plus it had a tendency to eat scopes. I learned as well that I'm just not a lever action guy .
......
It went to a good home and I hope the new owner is enjoying it.
heres a link to rather interesting info on the use of heavy cast bullets in the 444 marlin
personally I think both the 45/70 and 450 marlin are a superior choice,
in a lever action, the BLR comes in 450 marlin but not 45/70
but the BLR also comes in 270 win, 358 win,300 win mag, and 13 other choices.
Id suggest that basing that decision on use of a single lever action design, in a single caliber, might be less than honest, with yourself , Ive tried and owned at one time or another, winchester, ruger,mosberg, savage, marlin, and browning lever actions,and many manufacturers make several designs, each has its distinct flaws and advantages , basing your choice after trying a single brand or model is a bit like swearing off all woman , in general after a few bad dates in high school.
while you might prefer a bolt action,semi-auto, or single shot falling block or pump, (which obviously is simply a personal preference)Id suggest trying a wide selection, and giving each a reasonable try before swearing off the basic design
personally I like the pistol caliber marlin 1894 and the browning BLR and the 1895, and 1886 winchesters I personally don,t like the savage, mosberg, or ruger designs but someone must, as they sold plenty
Ive found these two lever actions both dependable and accurate
THE BROWNING BLR in either 358 win or 450 marlin caliber chamberings
I received a brief e-mail asking why I seem to be promoting the 450 marlin BLR
Im not promoting any caliber or action type, simply pointing out what I see rather frequently, used.
enough so that I purchased a post 1981 BLR, in caliber 358 win and later one in caliber 450 marlin,
both are very dependable hunting rifles, that Id carry with zero reservations,
as both consistently are fully able to shoot 1.5" 100 yard three shot groups off the bench rest.
and yes the function and triggers improve as they get a bit of wear and you become more familiar with their use.
the marlin 1894 in 44 mag
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1362147019/leupold-fx-ii-ultralight-rifle-scope-25x-20mm-matte
Ive owned marlins in 44 mag, 444 , 45/70 and 450 marlin,
I still own a marlin in 44 mag and a BROWNING BLR in 450 marlin which each in my opinion are the best choices in 40 caliber or larger lever actions
the 44 mag because its a light,accurate fast handling deer rifle thats a joy to hunt with and carry , I load 310 grain cast gas check bullets over 21 grains of h110, sized .430,low recoil and excellent accuracy.
the 450 BLR because its exceptionally accurate very effective and will flat out stomp most big game at reasonable ranges loaded with those 405 grain remington bullets over 50 grains of IMR3031,(roughtly 1850fps) the 450 marlin caliber BLR feeds better than the 45/70,marlin and its more accurate and having a front locking bolt its stronger, allowing a bit more safety margin
http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_d...+Reloading+Data
YEAH, A BROWNING blr IN 450 MARLIN
IS DESIGNED TO HANDLE max PRESSURE LEVELS in factory ammo,of about 43,000 psi roughly 50% higher than a 45/70, ,the action on a marlin 450 marlin BLR is front locking like a bolt action , it can safely handle slightly more pressure. a rear locking action on a marlin lever action can,t safely handle , more than about 33000 psi
the marlin is from what Ive read several places designed to handle approximately 32000-33000 psi
absolute max[/COLOR]
most loads are well under 28,000 psi hot loads are well under 30,000 psi, and a stead diet of those 30,000 psi loads in a marlin 45/70 will eventually strain and loosen components over time,
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/chamberpressure.html
.444 Marlin Reloading and Ballistics Data
Test-Fire: Marlin Model 444 18-1/2” .444 Marlin
Bullet Load MV
Barnes 275 gr. JFP 48.0 gr. H322 1945 fps
Barnes 275 gr. JFP 46.0 gr. Re-7 2081 fps
Barnes 275 gr, JFP 45.0 gr. Re-7 2030 fps
Hornady 265 gr. JFP 46.0 gr. H322 1787 fps
Hornady 265 JFP 48.0 gr. H322 1925 fps
Hornady 265 JFP 51.0 gr. H322 2030 fps
Hornady 265 JFP 45.0 gr. Re-7 1951 fps
Hornady 265 JFP 51.5 gr. H4895
1894 fps
Hornady 300 XTP 46.0 gr. H322
1884 fps
Hornady 300 XTP 48.0 gr. H322
1974 fps
Hornady 300 XTP 45.0 gr. Re-7
2105 fps
Hornady 300 XTP 51.3 gr. H4895
1927 fps
Sierra 300 gr. JFP 46.0 gr. H322
1833 fps
Sierra 300 gr. JFP 48.0 gr H322
1939 fps
Sierra 300 gr. JFP 51.5 gr.H4895
1894 fps
Sierra 300 JFP 45.0 gr. Re-7
1957 fps
Speer 270 GDHP 46.0 gr. H322
1833 fps
Speer 270 GDHP 48.0 gr. H322
1938 fps
Speer 270 GDHP 45.0 gr. Re-7
1944 fps
Speer 300 JFP 49.5 gr. H4895
1791 fps
Speer 300 JFP 51.5 gr. H4895
1823 fps
Speer 300 JFP 46.0 gr. H322
1882 fps
Speer 300 JFP 48.0 gr. H322
1939 fps
Speer 300 JFP 45.0 gr. Re-7
1846 fps
CAST BULLET LOADS:
Bullet Load MV
NEI #295.429GC 49.5 gr. H4895 1831 fps
NEI #295.429GC 51.5 gr. H4895 1900 fps
NEI #295.429GC 48.0 gr. H322
2060 fps
CPBC 320 LBT 45.0 gr. Re-7
2065 fps
RCBS #44-300GC 49.5 gr. H4895
1906 fps
SSK 310 FP 51.3 gr. H4895
1918 fps
its stupid to push your handloads past the rifles designed pressure limits but obviously people have occasionally done so!
personally having owned and used the marlin, in 444 and 45/70 extensively for 2 decades,
and after swapping too the BROWNING BLR in calibers 358 and 450 marlin
after extensive personal testing
Id say the BLR in 358 win is the most versatile and the BLR in 450 marlin, is a better substitute for the 45/70,
both BLR carbines are both much better more precisely machined,, stronger actions that allow pointed bullets and both BLR's are more accurate options ,
and both the BLRs can generally be found for near $1000 or less
the 450 marlin is listed at 44 k max pressure the 45/70 listed at 28 k max
keep in mind the BLR is available in 6.5 credmoor and 308 win, 243, and used in 270, 30/06, 257 roberts are available
https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/blr/blr-lightweight-81.html
http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm
http://kwk.us/pressures.html
http://kwk.us/pressures.html
http://www.chuckhawks.com/450Marlin.htm
http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamber_pressure
theres no need to push any 45/70 or 450 marlin to greater than about 28,000 psi
a 405-450 grain bullet will generally maximize the results, in the compromise between flat trajectory and penetration as heavier bullets take up a great deal of powder case capacity in either case.
a 45/70 can safely push a 405 grain CAST gas check, or jacketed bullet to about 1800 fps
a 450 marlin can push the same bullet to about 2070 fps
you can play with ballistic computers and trajectory charts for weeks if you care too but the math and facts won,t change,if you want to carry a useful rifle that you can expect to use in the feild with a reasonable trajectory, you can graph out the difference between all the potential bullet weights and velocity's, if you care to, (as an engineer I did that lots of times)it won,t change the fact that both the 45/70 and 450 marlin have very similar case capacity and if you graph out all the 300grn -500 grn projectiles loaded to max safe pressures, the 450 marlin holds a minor advantage with its slightly higher safe working pressure and that your most efficient loads based on trajectory, and retained energy and limited case capacity always favor the 350-430 grain projectiles.
look at the loads listed earlier, use a ballistic calculator
youll eventually be forced into that realization , by simple math
https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/
the additional 150-175 or so fps that the 450 marlin allows, over a 45/70 is not all that significant once you realize that the minor increase in impact energy and flatter trajectory will be a very minor advantage and either cartridge punches through an elk and whats behind it easily.
either rifle will kick the crap out of your shoulder at those speeds, if you shoot a great deal of ammo, and either cartridge or rifle loaded too about 1800 fps with 405 grain CAST gas check, or jacketed bullet, loaded to about 1800 fps will punch clear through an elk at 200 yards ... and still punch through a 4" aspen behind that elk, from personal in the field experience
it would be stupid to push pressure higher, that those listed max velocity's above in my opinion, and experience, as the cartridge is devastating on anything so loaded.
BTW, the Hornady 350 grain, .458 diam bullet and both the Remington and Speer 400-405 grain bullets work great on ELK,
even out at 250 yards and under, but will reach or reliably further in experienced hands.
the speer 250 grain is excellent in the BLR 358 win
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/d...70&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source=
ELK ARE NOT STUPID, as soon as they detect hunters they move to the least accessible areas with the thickest cover , and that usually means youll spend a great deal more time slowly and carefully sneaking thru timber than shooting across open fields like those magazine article pictures taken of elk in parks like yellow-stone suggest.
Ive used a 45/70 for decades in hunting elk in thick cover in colorado canyon country like these pictures others have posted, and lately I traded in my 45/70 marlin for a 450 marlin BLR its noticeably more accurate, than the marlin, the best load I found is a 405 grain remingtom bullet over 50 grains of imr3031 and a 215 fed primer
450 marlin handloads.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS) 250 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 57.0 2,288
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 60.0 1,970
Remarks: 1.95 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 62.0 2,091
Remarks: 1.80 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 51.5 1,751
Remarks: 2.25 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 53.0 1,869
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 54.0 1,990
Remarks: 1.90 group
300 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 50.0 1,982
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon H-4198 48.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.60 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 59.0 1,770
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 61.0 1,821
Remarks: 1.70 group
350 Kodiak FP IMR IMR-3031 56.0 1,827
Remarks: 1.55 group
350 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-335 60.0 1,872
Remarks: 1.20 group
400 Speer FN Hodgdon H-4895 56.0 1,773
Remarks: 1.75 group
405 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-322 52.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.50 group
405 Magma cast IMR IMR-4198 32.0 1,332
Remarks: 2.00 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 48.0 1,875
Remarks: 1.80 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 50.0 1,960
Remarks: 1.45 group
300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 38.7 1,928
Remarks: start chg
300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 43.0 2,096
Remarks: max chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.0 1,716
Remarks: start chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 40.0 1,865
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.2 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 48.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 52.2 2,198
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 58.0 2,389
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 54.9 2,217
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 61.0 2,410
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 58.1 2,226
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 64.5 2,420
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 60.3 2,214
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 67.0 2,407
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 59.4 2,001
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 66.0 2,175
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 56.7 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 63.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 39.4 1,813
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.8 1,971
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 46.1 1,919
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 51.2 2,086
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 50.0 2,030
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 55.5 2,207
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 55.8 2,067
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 62.0 2,247
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 55.8 2,010
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 62.0 2,185
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 54.9 1,892
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 61.0 2,057
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 55.8 1,982
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 62.0 2,154
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 55.8 1,719
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 62.0 1,869
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.9 1,688
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 41.0 1,835
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 41.4 1,732
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 46.0 1,883
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 47.3 1,883
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 52.5 2,047
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 49.9 1,877
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 55.4 2,040
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 54.0 1,909
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 60.0 2,075
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 49.5 1,689
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 55.0 1,836
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 53.1 1,875
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 59.0 2,038
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 53.1 1,620
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 59.0 1,761
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-3031 52.5 1,870
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-4198 44.2 2,000
Remarks: 39,000 psi
300 Nosler Partition IMR IMR-3031 57.0 2,100
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-3031 56.0 2,030
Remarks: 38,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-4198 45.0 2,050
Remarks: 40,000 psi
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-3031 50.8 1,860
Remarks: 40,000 psi; compressed powder charge
400 Remington soft point IMR IMR-3031 50.0 1,840
Remarks: 40,000 psi; compressed powder charge (VERY ACCURATE)
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-4198 40.0 1,820
Remarks: 40,000 psi
if you want a good 450 marlin load try 50 grains of IMR 3031 under a 405 remington bullet and a 215 fed primer, its accurate and will kill anything in north America if you place your shots well,
load either cartridge to about 1850 fps with that 405 grain remington, sight in to hit 3.5" high at 100 yards and start hunting the thick timber knowing you holding thors hammer, most of your shots will be well under 150 yards but even at 250 yards a center chest hold is devastating on deer or elk.
want a bit flatter trajectory and less recoil?
use a 350 grain hornady and 50 grains of varget powder in your 450 marlin gets you there! and you can easily use up to 59 grains for increased velocity , but Its not really required to still hit like a freight train.
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