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87vette81big
Guest
They are actually worse in the Corvette World Mike.
Won't Race each other or Me.
Won't Race each other or Me.
DYNO 2003 & Calculating shift points.
- Thread starter Loves302Chevy
- Start date
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
I'm not a street racer, but we have done it in the past.
But I would never line up with with a guy with a store-
bought car that couldn't even change a spark plug.
Only people that actually build their own cars.
But I would never line up with with a guy with a store-
bought car that couldn't even change a spark plug.
Only people that actually build their own cars.
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87vette81big
Guest
I hear Ya Mike.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Grumpy, can I get your opinion of this torque converter for the 84 TransAm? DD2003 says 400HP/400TQ
http://www.jegs.com/i/ACC-Performance/082/48444/10002/-1?parentProductId=3307558
ACC Performance 48444 - Boss Hog Street Bandit GM Torque Converters
Applications Up To 650 HP
ACC Performance use a much larger industrial Torrington-type incased bearings, that give these converters the ability to handle thousands of pounds of torque, throughout the converter where needed. These bearings will handle more raw power and abuse that the higher horsepower engines produce. Some other companies use a smaller needle type bearing. Needle bearings are not incased, which makes them susceptible to picking up trash or debris from the transmission fluid, which can lead up to heat build up and failure.
ACC Performance has custom engineered their own turbine hubs. Many competitors use a chrome-moly steel hub that does not weld very well.
"four-corner" tack weld their turbine and impeller fins in order to maintain the highest quality, strength, and durability.
converters are also engineered with a single bolt pattern for the rotating mass. Some competitors use a dual bolt pattern converter to eliminate multiple part numbers (i.e./ TH-350 & TH-400's). These transmissions using the same converter with a dual bolt pattern, will add 3 to 4 pounds of weight to the converter. This adds weight to the rotating mass of the engine, costing you nothing but horsepower & torque.
http://www.jegs.com/i/ACC-Performance/082/48444/10002/-1?parentProductId=3307558
ACC Performance 48444 - Boss Hog Street Bandit GM Torque Converters
Applications Up To 650 HP
ACC Performance use a much larger industrial Torrington-type incased bearings, that give these converters the ability to handle thousands of pounds of torque, throughout the converter where needed. These bearings will handle more raw power and abuse that the higher horsepower engines produce. Some other companies use a smaller needle type bearing. Needle bearings are not incased, which makes them susceptible to picking up trash or debris from the transmission fluid, which can lead up to heat build up and failure.
ACC Performance has custom engineered their own turbine hubs. Many competitors use a chrome-moly steel hub that does not weld very well.
"four-corner" tack weld their turbine and impeller fins in order to maintain the highest quality, strength, and durability.
converters are also engineered with a single bolt pattern for the rotating mass. Some competitors use a dual bolt pattern converter to eliminate multiple part numbers (i.e./ TH-350 & TH-400's). These transmissions using the same converter with a dual bolt pattern, will add 3 to 4 pounds of weight to the converter. This adds weight to the rotating mass of the engine, costing you nothing but horsepower & torque.
I've never even seen one of that particular brand of torque converter ,
nor have I heard of anyone I know using one,
now thats not saying they are good or bad,
simply that they are not being widely used by the vast majority of people I deal with yet.
now if the price is right and it has the features you want,
I'd suggest doing a google search for pleased or pissed off customers,
as theres going to be a few of both eventually, on any widely distributed product ,
keep in mind
some guys are thrilled if a converter works a bit better than stock,
while others will frequently have totally unrealistic expectations ,
and could break an anvil with a rubber mallet!
ID also visit the local race tracks on several consecutive weeks,
and ask the guys running similar cars to yours,
that consistently run in the 10-11 second range
what brands to AVOID and what brands they suggest,
IN THAT ORDER
as I find you get more information that way
http://web.archive.org/web/20070128173316/http://members.aol.com/powerrslid/thm2004r.html
nor have I heard of anyone I know using one,
now thats not saying they are good or bad,
simply that they are not being widely used by the vast majority of people I deal with yet.
now if the price is right and it has the features you want,
I'd suggest doing a google search for pleased or pissed off customers,
as theres going to be a few of both eventually, on any widely distributed product ,
keep in mind
some guys are thrilled if a converter works a bit better than stock,
while others will frequently have totally unrealistic expectations ,
and could break an anvil with a rubber mallet!
ID also visit the local race tracks on several consecutive weeks,
and ask the guys running similar cars to yours,
that consistently run in the 10-11 second range
what brands to AVOID and what brands they suggest,
IN THAT ORDER
as I find you get more information that way
http://web.archive.org/web/20070128173316/http://members.aol.com/powerrslid/thm2004r.html
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Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
the problem most guys face is the stock transmission shifts close to 5500-rpm
and the stock stall converter generally stalls at or below 2100 rpm,
where ideally you would want a 3200 rpm stall and a 3.45:1-3.73:1 rear gear,
to keep the engine operating in its most effective power range.
yes you'll very surely feel the difference in performance with the correct combo vs stock
Hey Grumpy, I've been shopping for torque converters and found these:
http://www.phoenixtrans.com/catalog/ptgm18245/
http://www.phoenixtrans.com/catalog/ptgm18258hs/
The 2nd one says, "If you want all the performance of a high stall converter, but still require the low speed drivability
of a lower stall converter than this is the converter you have been looking for."
That is exactly what I want to do.
Your thoughts please. Brian also.
Brian, I emailed Buckeye - no response. I will call them today.
I'm also looking at this TCI: http://www.jegs.com/i/TCI/890/243105/10002/-1
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Grumpy? Did you miss this?
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
C.R.S. maybe???yeah Ill look it over tonight, I must have over looked it. earlier SORRY
IVE BEEN SEARCHING FOR anyone AROUND HERE
that has used those torque converters and I can,t find anyone.
both the linked converters look too be well made
http://www.phoenixtrans.com/catalog/ptgm18245/
the lower version seems more like its designed for race applications but when I compare its description to other known brands it looks good.
http://www.phoenixtrans.com/catalog/ptgm18258hs/
these converters linked below, are more popular, at least here locally and theres several other brands that have a good track record of performance vs cost,
and have good durability, its usually a good idea to spend some time at the local race track asking detailed questions ,
about what transmissions, gearing and converters are being used by the guys who have cars running in the 10s- and low 11 second range.
as to what they found works and who stands behind the warranty vs who sells junk!
about any thing works in a 12-13 second car but by the time you put enough power on the track to run in the 9 second too 10 second range, you know the equipment is seeing stress levels that mandate at least better than average quality & durability
(but may or may not be better or worse)
http://converter.com/converters.htm
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...electing-a-torque-converter-stall-speed.1715/
that has used those torque converters and I can,t find anyone.
both the linked converters look too be well made
http://www.phoenixtrans.com/catalog/ptgm18245/
the lower version seems more like its designed for race applications but when I compare its description to other known brands it looks good.
http://www.phoenixtrans.com/catalog/ptgm18258hs/
these converters linked below, are more popular, at least here locally and theres several other brands that have a good track record of performance vs cost,
and have good durability, its usually a good idea to spend some time at the local race track asking detailed questions ,
about what transmissions, gearing and converters are being used by the guys who have cars running in the 10s- and low 11 second range.
as to what they found works and who stands behind the warranty vs who sells junk!
about any thing works in a 12-13 second car but by the time you put enough power on the track to run in the 9 second too 10 second range, you know the equipment is seeing stress levels that mandate at least better than average quality & durability
(but may or may not be better or worse)
http://converter.com/converters.htm
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...electing-a-torque-converter-stall-speed.1715/
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Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Thanks Grumpy. I'll check it out.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
The Vigilante is crazy expensive and way more converter than I need.
I'm going to look into the PTGM18/245. I don't need a billet cover for my purposes.
But it does have an anti-ballooning plate. Plus the sale price softens the blow.
$606.67
$487.77
You save $118.90 (20%)!
I'm going to look into the PTGM18/245. I don't need a billet cover for my purposes.
But it does have an anti-ballooning plate. Plus the sale price softens the blow.
$606.67
$487.77
You save $118.90 (20%)!
your probably going to be just fine with that converter, it looks like its well built from the written description, please post how it works out for you, and your impression of how the car feels to drive, once its installed
be aware youll want to select a stall speed thats rated a bit higher than the minimum RPM that the cams power band is rated for!
example
lets assume just for this part of the discussion you selected this cam, and used it in a 10:1 compression 383, with matched components
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-114132
notice the rated power band is 1600 rpm-to-5400 rpm,
so ideally a 1700 rpm-1800 rpm stall would in theory,
allow the engine to jump into its best power range if you floored the throttle.
obviously a different cam would change the converter selected
be aware youll want to select a stall speed thats rated a bit higher than the minimum RPM that the cams power band is rated for!
example
lets assume just for this part of the discussion you selected this cam, and used it in a 10:1 compression 383, with matched components
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-114132
notice the rated power band is 1600 rpm-to-5400 rpm,
so ideally a 1700 rpm-1800 rpm stall would in theory,
allow the engine to jump into its best power range if you floored the throttle.
obviously a different cam would change the converter selected
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87vette81big
Guest
Vigillante is Ok.
A C4 Corvette past favorite .
None ever ran to 1/4 mile expectations .
Fell way short.
On Budget Buckeye is best. What I use.
Hughes or Coan converters be my pick if surplus $ on hand.
On the Pontiac Forum a 1976 Trans Am 455 N/A is hitting 11.20 ET.
Nothing exotic .
Torque cam.
Sissy cam to me.
Continental Brand torque converter used.
Turbo 400 Trans.
3.08 gears in the 10-bolt rear.
Almost Hellcat fast.
A C4 Corvette past favorite .
None ever ran to 1/4 mile expectations .
Fell way short.
On Budget Buckeye is best. What I use.
Hughes or Coan converters be my pick if surplus $ on hand.
On the Pontiac Forum a 1976 Trans Am 455 N/A is hitting 11.20 ET.
Nothing exotic .
Torque cam.
Sissy cam to me.
Continental Brand torque converter used.
Turbo 400 Trans.
3.08 gears in the 10-bolt rear.
Almost Hellcat fast.
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87vette81big
Guest
I had A Nice Street Race tonight in the 1987 Vette Roadster Grumpy.
Minding my own business cruising hime from Krazy Eds in Joliet Rt. 80.
I looked in the Rear view mirror and a 2002 Trans Am & a New Ford F250 6.7 Turbo Diesel were going at it.
Both passed me about 110.
The Ford Truck Won.
I gunned it.
Got around.
Trans Am let me by.
The Ford Belched out Black smoke.
Reflashed Tuned for 500-600 Hp I knew instant.
I caught up at 120.
Looked over & passed easy.
I kept in it till 140 mph.
Slowed down to 90.
He caught up.
I dropped the Hammer again.
Sped away and didn't.let up.till 150.
mph.
6.7 Ford guy turned off.
Tail between his Legs.
Minding my own business cruising hime from Krazy Eds in Joliet Rt. 80.
I looked in the Rear view mirror and a 2002 Trans Am & a New Ford F250 6.7 Turbo Diesel were going at it.
Both passed me about 110.
The Ford Truck Won.
I gunned it.
Got around.
Trans Am let me by.
The Ford Belched out Black smoke.
Reflashed Tuned for 500-600 Hp I knew instant.
I caught up at 120.
Looked over & passed easy.
I kept in it till 140 mph.
Slowed down to 90.
He caught up.
I dropped the Hammer again.
Sped away and didn't.let up.till 150.
mph.
6.7 Ford guy turned off.
Tail between his Legs.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Brian is back.
Loves302Chevy
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
I made some calls about torque converters. What I learned is most companies have abandoned the "street high performance"
type of converter for 700R4 / 4L60E because stall speeds over 2500 rpm require a smaller diameter converter, which also
reduces the lockup clutch size. Too many complaints about the clutch slipping under full power. So most companies now only
offer the full race (expen$ive) converter with billet front cover, anti-balloon plates, triple disc clutch, etc. For my needs, I don't
require all of that. My lockup function will only be used for better gas mileage when cruising down the highway.
Building a vehicle for that "in between" street zone is the hardest thing to do. Better than stock, but not all out race. Trying to
combine "stock" parts that will hold up to increased performance, but not full race parts that are overkill is the challenge.
Brian, Buckeye is now Precision of NH. They no longer offer a converter like you have in your Corvette - just full race with all
the bells and whistles. It looks like Phoenix has the converter I am looking for. http://www.phoenixtrans.com/catalog/ptgm18245/
It has a 3200 rpm stall and has everything except billet front cover. It is a smaller diameter, but the lockup clutch is wider, giving it
more surface area than the even larger 298MM converter for increased holding power. I'm leaning towards it.
type of converter for 700R4 / 4L60E because stall speeds over 2500 rpm require a smaller diameter converter, which also
reduces the lockup clutch size. Too many complaints about the clutch slipping under full power. So most companies now only
offer the full race (expen$ive) converter with billet front cover, anti-balloon plates, triple disc clutch, etc. For my needs, I don't
require all of that. My lockup function will only be used for better gas mileage when cruising down the highway.
Building a vehicle for that "in between" street zone is the hardest thing to do. Better than stock, but not all out race. Trying to
combine "stock" parts that will hold up to increased performance, but not full race parts that are overkill is the challenge.
Brian, Buckeye is now Precision of NH. They no longer offer a converter like you have in your Corvette - just full race with all
the bells and whistles. It looks like Phoenix has the converter I am looking for. http://www.phoenixtrans.com/catalog/ptgm18245/
It has a 3200 rpm stall and has everything except billet front cover. It is a smaller diameter, but the lockup clutch is wider, giving it
more surface area than the even larger 298MM converter for increased holding power. I'm leaning towards it.
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87vette81big
Guest
A 700R4 is pretty much worthless on the Street without Torque converter lockup.
Trips over 15-20 miles long will heat the Trans bad. Likely even with a Huge Trans Cooler.
Trips over 15-20 miles long will heat the Trans bad. Likely even with a Huge Trans Cooler.
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87vette81big
Guest
I wouldn't even bother with small diameter. The guys that did on Corvette Forum lived just 5-10 miles from racetrack .
Better off with a Turbo 400 then I think.
Better off with a Turbo 400 then I think.
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87vette81big
Guest
I took a loom Mike.
The Buckeye Torque Converter is gone like you said.
They were around last I checked in 2015.
New guys I don't know who.they are.
My Buckeye TC Was rated for up 700HP.
Raybestos Friction clutch.
2,000 RPM STAL Rated.
It actually Flashes to 3,000 -3,500 Rpms.
The Buckeye Torque Converter is gone like you said.
They were around last I checked in 2015.
New guys I don't know who.they are.
My Buckeye TC Was rated for up 700HP.
Raybestos Friction clutch.
2,000 RPM STAL Rated.
It actually Flashes to 3,000 -3,500 Rpms.