ELK HUNTING TIPS

Discussion in 'misc hunting and range related' started by grumpyvette, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    I took a look at the Wildgame License fees Grumpy.
    Yes that's insane prices.
    Not much of hunter but I would like to try someday.
    Haven't heard from GT much lately. He likes to hunt Elk also.
    Free if we make it to Riches house to hunt deer he telks us.
    Rich hates those deer a lot.
     
  2. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2014/08/11-mistakes-elk-hunters-make-and-how-avoid-them

    Originally Posted by BCHunter666

    good advice!
    and Id point out being a masochist who doesn,t mind helping the clueless,
    helps a good deal!

    yeah I'm always amazed at the guys who do not blink at spending $1000 or more on licences,
    and an additional $2000-$4000 on the hunt,guys that are unwilling to walk more than 1/8th mile from the truck,
    and guys who then bring a rifle of marginal power with what is all too typically a cheap flimsy scope
    and guys that may have barely taken the effort to sight in the ammo they intend to use.
    Id advise a 270 win or larger caliber, but you darn sure need to shoot what you carry very consistently well.
    if you can,t consistently put holes in a coke can at 100 yards at least 70% of the time, shooting from a field position, you need more practice,
    being in good physical condition and being persistent , going to the effort to check out that extra ridge or canyon,
    and hunting all the available time,dawn to dusk every day,
    when things are not ideal is the key to success in many cases.
    do your homework, research the area, buy and use topo maps,talk to the area biologist,
    hunt in a decent area, if theres few elk your chances are far lower, and for darn sure get out and look over the area,
    cruising the back roads in a truck or getting up at 8 am, making breakfast,
    being back at camp, by 2 pm is hurting your odds


    As hunters confess blunders less eagerly than they recount kills, it’s hard to know how many elk would fall if hunters made no mistakes. Perhaps the elk keep track.

    Elk Lessons
    1. Mistake: Chief among failings, according to outfitters, is a hunter’s sorry state of physical readiness. Elk country isn’t all steep, high, rocky, and strewn with jackstraw timber, but that’s often where hunted elk go. Saying “I’m just a little slow” doesn’t negate the fact that elk are not slow. They live in big places and cover distance very quickly.

    Lesson: At a minimum, walk or jog for several weeks prior to your hunt to get your legs and lungs in the best shape possible.

    2. Mistake: Many riflemen shoot poorly without a bench. Over the years, I’ve muffed several shots that seemed at the time to be too easy to miss. As a guide, I’ve seen clients drill golf ball–size groups from a rest only to miss beach ball–size vitals with hasty pokes at elk.

    Lesson: Practice regularly with a paper bull’s-eye from sitting, kneeling, and off-hand positions. A .22 makes practice affordable and more comfortable. Determine a “90 percent kill” sight picture, and fire only when you have acquired it.

    3. Mistake: Long-range rifles often handicap hunters. Once, before I could stop him, a client crippled a far-off elk when we could have gotten closer. Another fellow who’d zeroed his rifle at 400 yards overshot a bull at 200. Heavy rifles also slow your step, tire you in the hills, and keep you from wanting to venture into the best elk cover.

    ▶ Lesson: Limit your rifle weight to 9 pounds. Zero at 200 yards; hold center to 250. But most important, always get as close as you can.

    4. Mistake: While I’m fond of iron sights, scopes are faster, with elk and reticle appearing in the same plane. But you lose target-acquisition speed, brightness, and field of view when you crank up the magnification. I’ve killed elk at 300 yards with 3X magnification. High power once cost a client an easy shot when he couldn’t find two bulls in his scope as they trotted by at 60 paces.

    Lesson: Keep your scope at 3X or 4X. You’ll have time to dial up for long shots.


    [​IMG]
    As fond as we are of iron sights, scopes are faster.

    Wayne Van Zwoll

    5. Mistake: Often on elk hunts, a good option can scuttle a better, easier one. Topping a ridge long ago, I glassed across a draw at meadows and second-growth that screamed elk. A few minutes later, as I glassed the slope, a twig snapped close by. The bull that had stood there surely wondered why I didn’t fire before it bolted.

    Lesson: Look near before you look far.

    6. Mistake: Elk hear well but dismiss some noises. Once, I sneaked into an aspen copse on an elk trail, pacing my steps as an elk might, and I passed a bedded cow at 4 yards to kill a bull. Padding along other tracks, I’ve surprised bulls that were bedded just feet away. Some were so astonished that they stood for a shot. But hunters who talk loudly or let their gear clack and rattle as they walk send elk packing.

    Lesson: Move like an elk where elk move. If you must communicate, whisper.

    7. Mistake: The wilderness pack trip has come to define “pure” elk hunting. But odds at a shot can improve on forest fringe near agriculture, where elk densities run higher, especially in late seasons. Success in Idaho’s Frank Church, Montana’s Bob Marshall, and Oregon’s Eagle Cap wildernesses hovers below 15 percent. While I’ve killed elk in all of them, they yield elk reluctantly.

    ▶ Lesson: Places of legend typically offer better scenery than shot opportunities.

    8. Mistake: Dreams of outsize bulls fuel elk fever. But assuming you can always kill a lesser elk later in the hunt if a big one doesn’t show early on is perilous thinking. One client passed up several fine bulls looking for a brute we knew was in the area. I admired his discipline, but he went home without firing a shot.

    ▶ Lesson: Have a realistic plan. As an outfitter pal advises his clients, “Shoot the elk you’d take the last day as soon as you see it.”

    9. Mistake: Crusted snow and bare ground can make for noisy tracking and spooked elk. But as I hunted through crust one day, I caught up with a bull, thanks to wind, topography, and knowing when to leave the track. I moved wide around the herd through cover, and my chance came as I paused at the cover’s edge. Across a meadow, the bull had stopped to check his backtrail.

    ▶ Lesson: Tracking can produce but always assume that the elk are stopping frequently and looking back.

    10. Mistake: While taking a friend on a hunt, we passed a thicket in the dark and heard elk. He wanted to stop, but I urged him on. We ignored the animals and kept climbing. At dawn, in some Douglas fir, the flick of an ear caught my eye. The bull fell to his .300.

    ▶ Lesson: Hiking past elk early puts you where elk don’t expect hunters to be. Don’t stop in the dark to listen for elk. They’ll spook. Hike purposefully; the elk will let you by, and you’ll shoot one later.

    11. Mistake: Many years ago, when bugling to attract bulls was still a novelty, a pal insisted on shadowing a herd bound for shade at dawn. The bull thought him a pest and left. That afternoon I probed the timber silently toward a sometimes-vocal elk. At last I glimpsed him long enough for a shot.

    ▶ Lesson: Rutting elk sometimes respond to a bugle by moving away. Still-hunt toward a noisy bull, and be aware that he might lie beyond alert cows.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  3. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    reading through the list above brings back a wealth of memories
    Id say the vast majority of the guys I,ve hunted with assumed they were in good physical condition, but were amazed to find out they were hardly up to a few days let alone a week of scouting steep canyons.
    let me absolutely assure you that the stuff you can do with minimal effort at a couple hundred feet of elevation become almost impossible to do at 9000 ft-11,000 feet of elevation,
    yes your body in most cases will adapt slowly to the new environmental conditions, but your very likely to feel terrible due to altitude sickness ,which will figuratively kick your ass, for the first few days,
    unless you take it very easy physically, take aspirin and drink a lot of liquids, this is why its almost mandatory to arrive a few days early and move up in altitude slowly, and generally sleep at a lower altitude than you hunt!
    and most guys assumed they could shoot accurately from field positions, even though they had spend almost all their time shooting off a bench rest.
    the one really consistent factor I noticed is that most guys , even with their favorite rifle, can,t hit a coke can, you place on a stump,
    at 100 yards from a quickly acquired field position , once we get up into elk hunting country, if their life depended on it!
    the fact that you can shoot a dime at 100 yards off a bench rest at 100 yards is totally meaningless if you can.t hit a 4" circle at 100 yards sitting on the ground or leaning against a tree.
    A good high quality 7x-10x field glasses can be very helpful,
    your rifle scope is not a substitute.
    use of good quality camo, IT DOES HELP!,
    keeping too the timbered areas and staying in shadows when ever you can do so, and while moving slowly, and irregularly , and yes while your watching 360 degrees around you,
    as its hardly rare for game to let you walk by then exit the area.
    If you need to talk to a buddy, squat near cover and only whispering is critical, voice/sound carries you want to make the chance of game detecting you as low as possible, so also be aware that your scent travels down wind and with the thermals that travel different directions as the temperatures change durring the day.
    a good wide brim hat too shade your eyes and good comfortable boots , and a small comfortable day pack to carry gear , like a down vest, rain gear, knife ,ammo ,canteen,fire starter, small block & tackle and your meds, topo maps compass, and some good food, and toilet articles, may not seem like critical gear but it makes a big difference.
    you need to stay warm, dry,and not have your boots hurt, or feel lost, and you need too stay,well fed too cover territory and stay alert. youll burn a great deal of calories if your hunting and covering large areas , and sitting in camp because your feeling dead tired or sick won,t get you an elk.
    don,t worry about your ability to make a theoretical 600 yard shot, in 45 plus years of hunting elk ID say 90% plus of the opportunities I've seen too shoot a legal bull elk, were at ranges under 250 yards.
    I've killed and seen a whole lot more elk shot at under 150 yards in thick timber ,
    than the few times I've seen it done at greater ranges,
    and its not usually due to people not being able to hit game, at extended ranges,
    (most people I've had try it, can,t hit a 6" diameter paper plate target,
    on the first shot from a quickly acquired field position,at ranges past 300 yards at BEST, many find 200 yards very challenging)

    the reason they seldom need to shoot longer ranges is simply that bull elk are not stupid enough to walk out in open areas,
    during day light hunting hours.
    yes, its critical you pick your out of state hunt companions carefully, having taken several dozen out of state 1 -2 week hunts,
    "at times in two states when the dates ran consecutively or over lapped and cash flow was great)
    it helps screen out the less helpful people if you take a few longer weekend deer hunts with all the potential applicants for a out of state elk hunt first, you may not eliminate all the losers and cheap skates,who won,t pitch in cover their fair share of work and expenses,
    and those that expect everything to work out perfectly, but you will be able to identify many,and not have too deal with them later as a result,
    its always a P.I.T.A. if your dealing with some guy who subconsciously feels,hes been lied too!
    and that if he spent one or two days wondering aimlessly around, in what he has been told too believe is "elk country"
    and not only him, but everyone else in camp has failed to even see an elk, hes ready to pack it in and go home.
    once you've had experience in elk hunting you'll find that ELK can and do cover a lot of terrain, an over night snow that allows you to see,
    obviously fresh tracks (even the new guys can now tell fresh from 3-5 day old) tends to help , but if your not seeing elk, change altitude and type of cover,
    they will NOT tend to be wondering out in open meadows, and they do require feed, water, cover and vastly prefer low hunter pressure,
    thus it generally will require learning to get into less easily reached areas and watching your air flow and odor , and learning to glass and use a topo map.
    its called HUNTING, not... out of state, step out of the truck,and shoot your trophy elk"
    you can generally tell the good guys vs the less useful when it comes time to put on the snow chains, or pack out an elk from over a mile away from the truck that someone else shot, or if the truck gets stuck or breaks down, by who considers it a huge P.I.T.A. vs the guys that jump, into help with out complaining, jack up the truck, and install snow chains of open their wallet when an un-expected bill is presented,

    I well remember both myself and my late hunting partner wearing 70-80 lb back packs , full of elk he had shot,
    while leaning on aspen for support, in a deep canyon in Wyoming,trying hard too catch our breath ,

    I turned to him and said " we paid how much to do this?"
    both of use burst out laughing so hard neither of us could catch our breath for 10 minutes
    thats the kind of hunting partner you want!

    related
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-practice-shooting-from-field-positions.9380/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-favorite-and-most-used-big-game-rifle.13113/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/whats-a-good-light-weight-elk-rifle.3738/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ange-calibers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-a-handgun-for-hunting-hogs-deer-elk.1864/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ou-so-dependent-on-your-weatherby-rifle.2403/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/why-do-so-few-use-semi-auto-elk-rifles.6104/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hat-are-you-looking-for-in-an-elk-rifle.2368/
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
  4. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    you can kill an elk with damn near any center-fire rifle under the correct conditions
    thats not too suggest you can,t make an intelligent choice that has some distinct advantages
    ideally you'll want to select, a cartridge that can reliably punch through to an elks vitals at reasonable ranges and angles.
    there are a basic range of well proven calibers that will do the job,
    personally Id suggest nothing less than a 270 win with a 150 grain quality bullet, and something like a 35 whelen or 300 win or 300 wby makes more sense in my opinion,
    in my 45 years experience,
    Id suggest anything that throws at least a 180-200 grain bullet to at least 2400 fps at the muzzle ,
    and Id prefer a 225-250 grain at at least 2600 fps.
    what I can tell you is no mater what physical shape your in you'll wish it was better after a week hunting in steep canyon country,
    and you need all the practice you can get shooting from field positions out to at least 250 yards, to maximize your chances of success.
    I try to make most shots art game, while sitting using a sling, with a 13"/27" harris bi-pod
    https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/222546/harris-s-25c-bipod-sling-swivel-stud-mount-13-1-2-to-27-black?utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Rests,+Bi-Pods+&+Benches&utm_content=222546&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Shooting+-+Rests,+Bi-Pods+&+Benches-_-Harris+Bipods-_-222546&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-YK985jm2QIVDksNCh0klghpEAQYAiABEgKZZvD_BwE
    I constantly practice shooting both sitting and standing, for many, shots are taken, sitting using a sling, no bi-pod, but several were taken ,standing shooting offhand while using a sling.
    I can generally hit most shots more than 70%-80% in a coke can size target,shooting offhand, with a sling out to about 100 yards,( hitting a 3.5"-4" circle)but cut that group size in 1/2 sitting with a sling, and a bit better still with a sling and bi-pod.
    most of the game I've shot has been dropped at under 250 yards and mostly in thicker timber or narrow canyons, where ranges are generally not excessive, in fact you should practice shooting a soda can size target off-hand at 50 yards, as in thick timber you may get amazingly close range shots at standing or walking elk.(learn to shoot skeet, also , and keep your scope on its lower setting while stalking timber, as an elk jumping up in the thick timber at closer ranges is not rare)
    the browning BLR in 358 win and 450 marlin and the remington 7600 in 30/06 and 35 whelen, and the marlin 45/70 rifles have a strong representation in our hunting club..because they are well proven.
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ange-calibers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/
    I can not pick what works best for you, but read the links below









    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hat-are-you-looking-for-in-an-elk-rifle.2368/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-favorite-and-most-used-big-game-rifle.13113/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/whats-a-good-light-weight-elk-rifle.3738/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ange-calibers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ou-so-dependent-on-your-weatherby-rifle.2403/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...i-hunt-the-more-i-like-the-33-38-45-cal.2846/
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  5. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

  6. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I wish more people would get the hell off the bench rest tables and learn too shoot from field positions,and properly use a sling or buy and use a bi-pod
    I get so pissed at times listening to guys who swear their hunting rifle shoots 1/2" groups all day,and shoots laser flat to 500 yards,
    most of those who have near zero ability to accurately place shots under real field conditions,
    especially when I've seen many of them shoot in the field
    Ive won plenty of $10 bets that most guys could NOT put a hole in a soda can at one hundred yards with their first shot from a sitting or standing field position, using the rifle they hunt with.
    [​IMG]
    most of my big game rifles are sighted in to hit 3.5" high at 100 yards
    as range estimation can be tricky and must be done rapidly in some cases
    the sighting in trick of sighting in 3.5: high at 100 yards, allows good centered chest hits on deer and elk with many common rifles out to at least 250 yards with a center chest hold behind the front leg.
    Id bet there would be a big increase in sales of slings and adjustable bi-pods if guys were forced, by yearly testing,
    to be able to shoot a 6" group at 100 yards from a rapidly acquired field sitting position before they were to be allowed to buy a hunting licence.
    [​IMG]
    Ive used a 340 wby and 375 H&H on most ELK HUNTS, you might not want to use those calibers but the same basic trajectory can be had with a 30/06 or a 270 win/
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    you simply sight in at 100 yards off the bench on the yellow dot and have all the shots print over the smaller red dot,
    when you get out in the field, hold where the light green dot is it will produce a fatal wound out a bit past 300 yards,
    you sure don,t have to use this method or even agree but I can assure you its resulted in a bunch of dead elk

    years ago I saw a game department survey made where they asked hundreds of hunters at a western BLM check point, to look out at 5 different colored flags placed at random but carefully measured distances and write down what each person estimated the distance too be from the check point, they were handed a pen and a survey card, they were told NONE of the colored flags were at an even 100 yard multiple but that was the only info , each flag was a different, color, placed in a
    different direction and at a different distance.
    the survey taker pointed out each colored flag and asked them to write down their estimated range!
    they tabulated the actual hunters field estimates being made on the spot, vs the carefully measure actual distances.
    .
    .[​IMG]
    the results were about what Id have expected..after decades of listening to guys claim they killed deer & elk at 400 and 500 and 600 yards.......
    the vast majority were very VERY bad at estimating distances correctly past about 150 yards...some estimates that were over 70% wrong were not uncommon

    most people are pathetic shots if forced to shoot any place but on a bench rest at a shooting range where they get to practice,from,
    simply because, if your only practice is done off a concrete bench rest, at the local range , they get the absurd idea, that if they could keep a couple shoots within an inch or so, of the paper targets center, at 100 yards that most ranges are set up at, that under those conditions they are great shots, and will continue to be so out in the field.

    [​IMG]
    a bi-pod can improve field accuracy noticeably
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...od-sling-swivel-stud-mount-13-1-2-to-27-black
    [​IMG]

    having to learn to shoot from field positions is hardly a new required skill.
    read what the requirements were in the civil war to become a member of berdans sharp shooters

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_United_States_Sharpshooters

    in order to qualify to be a member of the Sharpshooters; each man had to be able to place ten shots in a circle of 10 inches (250 mm) in diameter from 200 yards (180 m) away. They were able to choose a rifle and position of their preference for the test.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  7. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    while we all like to brag about rifle we own that consistently shoot great tight groups, but the truth is that the vast majority of those BRAGGING SIZE GROUPS are all shot off a bench rest , and in the field thats not an option, and the vast majority of people can,t reliably and consistently hit a soda can, size target, at 200 yard on their first shot from field positions about 80% of the time if their lives depended on it.
    I'm certainly not suggesting group size does not matter , but if your worried about the difference between a load that consistently holds a 1.5" vs a 1" group off the bench your not looking at the factor that will cause you to fill or not fill your freezer!
    Id also point out that I constantly run into guys that tell me they bought a new 6.5 mm, 7 mm or 300 mag super zapper because they need to have a rifle that shoots flat at 600-700 yards.
    I have a difficult time not laughing out loud, when I see the way guys actually shoot in the field.
    I know from decades of hunting that theres two facts,
    (1) the vast majority of game is killed at under 200 yards.
    (2) the vast majority of hunters can,t reliably and consistently judge range in the field once the ranges exceed 300 yards
    if you can hit a 4" target at 150 yards on your first shot, using a quickly acquired rest or using a sling in the field under the conditions your going to see , 99% of the time, a better shot than most of the guys I've hunted with, yet most of those guys consistently kill deer/elk.
    most of the members in my hunt club struggle to consistently hit a 3" orange dot on the first shot, from a sitting position, or leaning over a tree branch,on the first shot at 100 yards, yet we regularly kill deer/elk.
    yes most of these guys can shoot 1" hundred yard groups off the bench rest easily
    have them walk 200 yards, at a steady pace, drop too a sitting position and try to hit a first shot on a 3" orange dot and your dealing with a vastly different game
     
  8. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member




    [​IMG]

    https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-...MI3JG22I366AIVaQiICR3AygE7EAQYASABEgJ7W_D_BwE

    uncles mike holster charts
    http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/opticsplanet/uncle-mike-holster-chart.pdf

    btw adding a vest under a parka goes a long way toward keeping you significantly warmer
    [​IMG]
    a decent down vest and polar fleece hoodie under a parka sure helps on sub zero mornings
    I generally assume I will have game down at some point so my day pack contains a dozen 2.5 gallon zip lock bags, tools to dress out game, knives sharpeners, and a small block & tackle
    meat will spoil rapidly unless cooled, rapidly, this generally won,t be a huge issue if you can place the full ziploc bags in a snow drift,
    maybe Im an optimist but I generally have at least 20 lbs of dry ice in a cooler back at my truck even before I have game down, most large grocery stores in game areas sell dry ice
    but you should make every effort to pack meat back to a cooler with dry ice as rapidly as you can do so
    .you may need to pack out a rear ham with the sex evidence still attached ( check local game laws)
    the sharade woodsman
    http://www.knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expan ... e=SCH165OT

    [​IMG]

    two decent values in less expensive hunting knives
    https://www.knifecenter.com/item/SC...ept-blade-delrin-handles-brown-leather-sheath

    https://www.knifecenter.com/item/SCH152OT/schrade-152ot-old-timer-sharpfinger-fixed-delrin-handles
    this woodsman (above) and the sharp finger (below),are both a darn good value in a skinning and dressing game knife,
    both work, you may prefer one vs the other,
    but both get the job done and at the very low price,
    you could buy both and give the one you don,t prefer to a son or friend


    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/310537/old-timer-woodsman-fixed-blade-hunting-knife-5-clip-point-7cr17-high-carbon-stainless-steel-blade-sawcut-slab-handle-black

    http://www.survival-gear-guide.com/schr ... inued.html

    http://www.amazon.com/Schrade-Timer-Sha ... B000IE3ZKA

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...tainless-steel-blade-sawcut-slab-handle-black

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    now if your looking for a dirt cheap knife of above average quality for its price both of the knives above do a decent job, Ive used both for many years and while each has its good/bad features both are very handy, I prefer the woodsman by a slim margin as its a bit more useful in my opinion , but either will dress out deer or elk quite effectively
    when combined with an ez-lap or similar pocket diamond hone

    now I don,t care if your built like a pro wrestler, or foot ball linebacker, if you dropped an Elk in some remote canyon,
    Ive run into guys who had an elk down in some remote canyon, with no idea or even vague plan on how to get it back to camp... like one guy said,
    " ive hunted elk for 5 years and this is the first time we ever actually shot one... now what do we do??"

    if you drop an elk, youll generally find hes inevitably not dropped under an ideal over hanging tree branch suitable for hoisting his very heavy carcass up,
    for easy field dressing, this results in you having two choices, process his butt, on the ground or fabricate a tripod for your block and tackle,
    some para cord
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    kukri plus block and tackle plus...
    typical elk lodge pole country rapidly allows any experienced elk hunter access too a tri pod to easily lift any elk, for cleaner meat processing.[​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    http://crosscreektrading.com/shop/hoists/

    while $85 for an elk hoist, seems high priced ,
    its a damn bargain and youll understand why ,
    once its used a few times


    [​IMG]
    Cross Creek Trading Co.
    225 Bowes Road
    Chinook, MT 59523



    1-800-488-5075
    Contact Us

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ok lets assume you've never hunted ELK, and you just stepped out of the truck,
    you've got a topo map of the area and you have a compass and ideally a gps
    step one, you need to pack your back pack, make sure you have the licences, and gear you think youll need and the boots clothing and gear you expect youll need, keep it light ,
    you first step is locating or scouting the area and getting some concept of the area your dealing with,break out the topo map and locate where your truck is parked on it.
    locate the logging or access roads and if there are any marked trails,
    lets just for giggle use this topo map, notice theres compass directions, locate your current location on the map,your going to need to relocate camp and the truck at some point so you need to know what compass directions the ,
    canyons and roads are in relation to where you intend to hunt.
    look closely at the map, notice every so often theres a number like 6700, or 6200 on the lines, these are elevation numbers, the lines on the map are each at a specific elevation
    lets assume your truck is parked on a logging road or trail, and you locate your location, follow the elevation lines, lets assume your parked at the spring where I placed the dark red pointer arrow, your parked on a rolling incline and too your south-west is a lot of closely spaced lines this indicates a steep incline, or ridge that juts up or canyon between you and moving directly to the south west, reading the elevation numbers and comparing those to the area your parked at will indicate if that incline is going to be upward or downward from your current location,
    generally roads follow ridge lines (higher elevations or rivers lower elevations) some follow contours , its your job to locate your camp, then its relation and location compared too the surrounding lands contours. notice too the north east theres fewer contour lines, this indicates fairly level meadow or open areas, if its shaded on the map its more likely covered in trees and brush.
    ITS hard to read this posted map but lets assume your at about a 6700 ft elevation,and too the southwest is sawmill creek at about 6200 ft elevation, that means theres over 500 feet in drop walking into that canyon, and about the same change in altitude walking back out if your route is directly south west, notice the slightly darker tan contour line, denoting your current elevation, follow it south east then back to the north west into sawmill creek, and you may find easier walking
    [​IMG]
    those lines on the topo map indicate about 20 meters in change in elevation between any two lines the closer together the steeper the grade
    there will be natural travel choke points like steep grades and canyon walls the blue and bright red indicate potential travel choke points.
    obviously if you can find a place to easily glass those two choke points, game will need to find water and the creek supplies that, many topo maps are shaded indicating vegetation
    having a topo map you can read and if you can find any recent Ariel photos helps increase your chances of scoring.
    the idea here is to use your ability to glass the area to locate game, youll exhaust yourself if you try to walk the area extensively, but if you locate a ridge you can sit on and watch a terrain choke point you can in theory control with a rifle your odds increase, game generally trys to follow natural contours and would prefer to avoid trying to climb steep grades if not being pushed, as you gain experience in an area take notes, talk to your friends about what they saw.
    game prefers area with feed and cover, its your job to locate the areas game uses and think of ways to avoid thermals and being spotted visually or have your odor reach the elk., before your well inside your rifle and your personal skill limitation on making an accurate shot.
    easy access to any area from a drive-able road is frequently a strong indicator that game will tend to avoid those areas, as hunters will look for easy road access,
    game will look for feed and cover in areas with good cover and less easily accessed areas, that provide cover and food & water,with less hunter easy access,
    thus over time travel patterns over wide areas will form,
    but keep in mind elk can and do travel many miles every day, your particular canyon or drainage may not hold any elk one day,
    and hunter pressure else ware can and will alter movement. herds will move between several drainage's or canyons.
    finding a spot that allows you to glass and control or deny access by game with your rifle,
    through several natural terrain choke points is a smart route vs aimlessly wondering ,hoping to see elk,
    [​IMG]





    [​IMG]
    creek bottoms like this, where you typically find elk holed up during the season, may be easily a thousand feet of elevation or more and far more than a mile from where you can park your truck, and
    your not going to be able to drag the carcass out in one piece.I usually hunt thicker brush, and take my 450 marlin rifle or sometimes my 375 H&H carbine,
    now this carbine shoots flatter, but its not more effective like the ballistics on paper seem to suggest it might be, the fact is that the bigger caliber and heavier bullet seems to be just as effective in my experience inside of 250 yards.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    YEAH, A BROWNING blr IN 450 MARLIN
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/working-a-bolt-action-rifle.15007/

    but once your games down you certainly don,t want to carry a rifle that might weight 8-10 lbs both ways while your packing a heavy back-pack out of some canyon.
    you'll need to at least 1/4 the game , so you'll have several very heavy loads and your not making it out of some canyon 1-4 miles from camp with a 60 lb-100 lb back pack load without a good deal of effort,
    in fact I've occasionally let barely legal elk walk right on by in the first few days of a hunt, hoping for something a bit more impressive so the required effort of dragging him out of some remote canyon would be a bit more justified in my mind. (not always smart but Ive done it several times)you may not be packing heavy loads but with the proper design what ever load you do pack will be far easier to handle, more stable and less fatiguing
    BTW good boots with ankle support and stiff cleat type bottoms are almost mandatory

    [​IMG]
    decent quality commercial pack are not cheap
    before you bring any back pack on a ELK HUNT youll want to test it out carefully, by actually testing it,with significant weight loaded over at least 30 minutes, what might feel OK in a 2 minute test WON,T feel the same after 30 minutes!
    you need to spread the significant load on your shoulders and hips and pad it as much as you can!
    you need too adjust the straps and hip belt so 80%-90% of the weights on your hips not your shoulders, and youll want too,find several trash bags and put a 80 lb bag of sand inside them,and duct tape them carefully so it won,t leak, then place the large load simulating a elk quarter or load of meat,in the pack. if your pack won,t fit a MINIMUM of that size load in its main compartment YOULL NEED TO LOOK INTO A LARGER STRONG PACK!
    then spend a minimum of two hours walking around ,ideally, up a few stairs,in some out door high school stadium or condo stair case,or across local hills etc, if the pack you selected squeaks or rips, under that load ,its JUNK and you just saved yourself a whole lot of grief knowing that well before the hunt, and getting a better pack is mandatory, because you normally will be packing gear into or elk meat in or out, in your pack, and a pack that fails 1/2 way up a steep canyon is a huge problem.
    http://www.grumpysperformance.com/$_12.JPG
    I tried at least 4 different welded aluminum frame freighter style pack frames similar to this,(I'm sure theres a dozen good quality freighter packs but the ones I tried were junk!,) every one was noisy and eventually broke under the loads I packed out, of those canyons, they were a HUGE P.I.T.A. and in my opinion a waste of money
    http://www.eberlestock.com/miva/merchan ... ry_Code=BP
    these are supposed to be top quality
    the first few elk I packed out I used an external frame aluminum frame, pack. the first year was a total disaster as the riveted aluminum frame squeaked constantly and eventually broke under the 80 lb loads in very short order, the next year I bought a far stronger name brand welded frame ,that cost over $120 which was a huge expense in the early 1970s, it lasted two years before it broke , I explained my problem at cabelas store, to an old geezer who had actually experienced similar issues, and the guy suggested a cheap PEAK ONE pack,frame,at that time or something like the CURRENT RED HEAD ENDURO FLEX but suggested I have a better bag made,with a larger compartment, I bought a heavy nylon duffel bag and heavily modified it so it securely strapped too and was supported by the flex frame at a dozen plus all adjustable strap locations, on the frame, plus
    http://www.grumpysperformance.com/camdu1.png
    I used 20 feet of seat belt nylon and brass grommets to make a custom pack,support sewn to the edges with a great deal of sewing of seat belt web strap, to secure the duffel to the pack frame so it comfortably supported 100 lbs of sand bags inside the duffel ,the dozen plus individual buckle straps sewn so the weight stayed centered and close to my body, I bought far better quality hip and shoulder belts and added those and its lasted and worked for 30 plus years, its ugly and not high tech, but like a crowbar its hard to damage, and it works


    HERES A GOOD BASIC FRAME
    http://www.basspro.com/RedHead-Endurofl ... LL_PRODUCT
    http://www.grumpysperformance.com/endroflex.png


    http://www.basspro.com/RedHead-RH5000-E ... 160606328/

    80%-90% of a loaded packs weight SHOULD be supported on your hips NOT the shoulder straps so a sturdy well padded hip belt is ABSOLUTELY mandatory
    you may NOT be able to fing a quality hip belt on a sturdy frame so mix & matching frames, belts and straps might be your only choice
    http://www.grumpysperformance.com/hipbelt.JPG
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/3111784728 ... rmvSB=true

    Ive always prefered to carry a magnum revolver in a shoulder holster when packing out meat, you certainly don,t want to discuss rightful ownership ,
    of your elk on a return pack trip un-armed if something with large teeth and claws has decided you must have left the parts you did not pack out initially simply because you had no further interest.
    so far I have generally used a small block & tackle to haul my elk up to dress it out, but even if your back in an hour or two, you might find your ownership challenged,
    so far, Ive had a bear only once feeding on the offal, when I returned and once he saw us, (my partner and I) he decided he had business elseware, but Id hate to be un-armed if he had decided otherwise.
    the 44 mag silhouette with adjustable front site and 10 5/8" barrel
    http://www.grumpysperformance.com/293ss&w.jpg
    YES IT REQUIRES a shoulder holster to use comfortably
    http://www.grumpysperformance.com/10sho.jpg[/B]

    its not the rifle or ammo thats critical, its your physical condition,
    your persistence and ability to locate game and get into reasonable range,and your knowledge of the game and its terrain,
    that will make or break most hunt success
    .a good shot with any decent center fire rifle from a 257 Roberts to a 458 win mag can kill elk,
    if they get into decent range and can accurately place shots in the games vitals,
    thats not the hard part, its finding the elk and getting into range,
    and making that accurate shot rapidly from a field position thats the difficult part.
    ask the guys that were not successful, youll find it was not having the opportunity,
    not seeing elk in range,never seeing game,and lack of physical endurance,
    that kept them from checking the next canyon, or walking too the next bunch of aspen on the next ridge,
    to make the shot or for a few missing, not the rifles lethality that was the problem.
    (1) most people can,t hit crap shooting from field positions ,
    bench rests are great for setting your scope zero and sighting in,
    but if you don,t spend the vast majority of your time learning to shoot accurately from field positions,
    your drastically reducing your chances
    you need to practice with a sling , and a decent bi-pod, and sitting as thats how youll make a great many shots
    http://www.grumpysperformance.com/sitting.jpg
    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41+iN4CEA6L.jpg
    HB25CS 25C Model S -13.5-27" Swivel Bipod
    by Harris Engineering
    (2) in 50 plus years of hunting elk , I've spent a respectable time in the field,
    I've shot and seen shot, a good deal of deer and elk, the vast majority were killed at under 250 yards,
    (3) most people can't judge range accurately, in fact most people are terrible at it at distances over 300 yards
    (4) your 30/06 is fully capable of killing any elk at the ranges your likely to actually see elk in the field.
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ange-calibers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-a-good-all-around-elk-mule-deer-rifle.12948/
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hooting-from-field-positions.9380/#post-71169
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
  9. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    altitude sickness.
    (I generally spend 10-24 hours on the first day or so at altitude feeling like crap,
    yes every year.. its just the price you pay to hunt elk.)
    the first year I thought I had a bad cold or flue... but over a day or so your body adjusts and you feel much better,
    this is why I always suggest driving out and getting to the area you'll hunt several days early,
    you know you don,t want too feel like crap on opening day, so assume you'll need to acclimate a few days early,
    and stay at lower altitudes the first few days, this could be a a friends home or a motel,
    but if you hunt in the 7000-11000 elevation range and live at less than 50 ft elevation ,
    all year like I do, you can be damn sure you'll feel the effect at some point.

    I just had a long discussion with one of the guys in our elk hunt club about his last trip to Colorado.
    Id informed him of the extreme likelihood of a guy from Florida experiencing altitude related head aches until his body acclimated and that could take several days.
    he had spent the days prior too hunting before the season in Denver at a friends home,
    he thought he had a bad cold, headache, and chills, body aches,
    he was almost willing to cancel the hunt he had waited 3 years to make.
    but on the second day, he started too feel better after drinking lots of gator aid, and hot tea, and taking several hot showers, after reaching the hunt area he again felt like crap, but rented a motel room at lower elevation near gypsum EAGLE , CO.
    the next day and for the rest of the hunt he felt ok, even hunting at 8000-9700 ft elevation,
    and yes he filled his mule deer tag but failed to see a legal elk, yet like I was he is hooked and really enjoyed the experience.
    now if you have ever had altitude sickness ,
    you'll know its nothing you can easily ignore, the basic symptoms,
    in my case is that every year, on the first or second day of the hunt, at higher altitudes,
    you feel like some body kicked your ass, every muscle hurts, and you have the worst hang-over ever...
    a migraine head ache,
    take several aspirin, drink lots of gator aid , even if not thirsty,
    and find a warm place to sleep it off , at less than about 5000 ft altitude,

    if you can while your body adjusts to the altitude change,
    if you can do so a motel and a hot shower beating on your face, every time you get out of bed,
    and a decent bed at lower by ideally several thousand feet of altitude,helps speed up the bodies ability to acclimate.
    this is not just a minor inconvenience ,
    YES ,for most people its a passing P.I.T.A.
    that passes in 24 hours or so,
    too some it could be a major issue requiring hospitalization.

    over 40 plus hunts, with dozens of guys making the trip out west, to hunt elk,
    I've had only one guy make the trip that had to fly home and be hospitalized

    [​IMG]
    info too read
    How can I prevent altitude sickness?
    Hydration: “Staying hydrated is good and avoid alcohol at first.”

    Acclimation: Go up in increments, allowing the body time to adjust to each level before moving up to the next.

    Exertion: “As you are acclimating, limiting your level of exertion can help. Also, get plenty of rest.”

    Medications: “There are medications we can give to patients who we think are high risk. Discuss this with your physician.”

    Oxygen: “If the situation is acute, then oxygen can be administered.”

    Descent: “Get back to a lower altitude. This is the most important and most effective treatment always. Getting to a lower altitude is most imperative in severe cases—and oxygen should be administered as a temporizing measure at the same time.”

    I have hunted northern California in the warner wilderness,
    WYOMING in several areas
    idaho once
    all over mid Colorado and the white river areas , meeker,eagle,gypsum,rifle, gunnison , and near woodland park, aspen etc.
    dozens of years
    some areas in northern MAINE up near paterson
    and in florida several dozen, management areas
    ocala, corbett,browns farm, bear island.....
    (too many to remember them all)

    keep in mind the basics remain constant, get the proper licences,
    you first need too research the area regulations,
    try to talk to game wardens and biologists several times prior to the season,areal photos help if current.
    youll need to know what your hunting, and any limitations,
    like shotguns only or 500 sq inches of orange in a vest and hat.
    or limits on tree stands or vehicles camping or road access.
    get a topo map, of the area, youll need to stay safe, warm, dry , you need decent boots and a day pack.
    if available get a map marked with local property boundary lines
    call the local fish and game office get current info, if you can find a local mentor so much better.
    use your brain,look over the terrain and be aware that most deer will try to avoid roads and camp sites.
    you need to know what the local game eats where it tends to bed, and be able to recognize potential feed like white oak,
    wondering aimlessly hoping to see deer is a waste of effort in most cases , work smart not hard, if water is scarce, water holes are a used asset.
    if theres a big camp site try to use the flood of foot traffic at dawn, to your advantage,
    look for natural funnels like fenced highways or cliff faces that tend to force game traveling through an area too bunch up
    look for escape routes. realize most hunters are adverse to putting in the effort to cross streams or climb steep embankments
    some of the best areas may require wading a small stream or climbing a steep grade to gain access.
    if you get a shot never assume you missed, even well hit deer can rush off as if totally untouched only to fall 50 yards into the tree line.
    be aware of whats beyond the target, you don,t want a bullet to carry into property and cause damage.
    get a decent cooler and bags of ice, youll need cold water or soda and if you score youll need to cool the venison.

    one of the things I find rather amusing to some extent depressing ,is the more modern need, or desire, many people have for near instant gratification,
    and the nearly companion desire for avoiding and physical labor. Elk hunting is NOT primarily
    ( at least in my opinion based on the need to kill an impressive elk!)
    its about learning the REQUIRED SKILLS to mentally and physically challenge yourself, while learning to enjoy pristine remote mountain areas,
    areas, mostly devoid of mans encroachment, and getting back into a way of life mankind followed and basically perfected for hundreds of thousands of years,
    man has not the strength, teeth, claws or endurance to kill elk like a cougar , but we have the intelligence and ability too out think any elk,(well most of us do)
    we have the ability to use TOOLS to vastly increase our natural lethality, and have developed weapons that vastly increase reach and our muscles destructive ability's
    you hunt elk in some of the most beautiful mountainous, locations on earth, your seldom forced to meet a strict dead-line, and its a skill set,
    that takes most people many years and many miles covered before you prefect the required knowledge.
    modern man has weapons like rifles and compound bows , accurate maps and warm moisture resistant clothing,
    that would amaze the mountain men of only 200 years ago, but they understood the mountains and game to a greater degree than most more modern and better equipped, modern hunters ever will.
    yes its entirely possible for someone new at the sport to kill an elk, you have access to huge advantages in recent technology, but to be consistently successful ,
    youll need to still locate and get reasonably close to the animal you hunt , that has remained somewhat unchanged.
    you need to relax, enjoy being in a more stress free environment, and LEARN HOW TOO, look and listen, too observe carefully, your surroundings,
    if you use the advantages modern technology provides like warm clothing, decent boots, accurate maps, spotting scopes, GPS, synthetic materials in back packs, tents, clothing,
    and vastly improved lethality and range the modern weapons provide you,
    it would seem to be a totally un-fair advantage over elk. yet the elk still have several advantages, many modern hunters are rather UN-observant, and LAZY,
    they are not willing to spend days locating elk, nor are they willing too spend the effort required to learn how to get in close without being detected.
    perfecting those skills takes time and effort, enjoy the challenge and enjoy the country, the scenery, relax and learn the skills required.
    If your loosing sleep over thoughts your rifle does not have the range or power required... don,t bother,
    I've used an iron sight revolver and archery equipment to kill elk. your problem is finding the legal elk, not in your equipment's limitations
    [​IMG]

    . https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...cf-430-diameter-310-grain-flat-nose-gas-check
    MOLD DC C 430-310-RF
    sized .430 and loaded over 21 grains of h110 does a great job

    [​IMG]



    heres a quick memory jog list, for MY hunting day pack
    (you sure may not need everything,
    but it may jog your memories or cause you too think.)
    (remember you might be forced to stay out over night, & weather is unpredictable)
    skinning knife
    kukri
    compact blade sharpener
    compass
    area topo maps
    canteen
    licences
    cell phone (car charger and/or back-up batteries)
    several lighters
    several mil surplus trioxane heat tabs
    granola bars
    rain poncho
    2 gallon zip lock bags
    small block & tackle hoist & rope(50 ft parachute cord)
    spare ammo
    heavy hoodie jacket
    large plastic tarp
    aspirin
    other meds
    lip chapstick
    water purification tablets, or filter/pump
    down vest
    gps
    pack of wetnaps
    toilet paper
    emergency food
    on your belt
    large knife or light tomahawk, or kukuri
    the cold steel (TRAIL MASTER, or ( KUKRI) are good choices
    canteen


    anything that could get screwed up if you fall in a creek like medicine, licences, cell phones etc. gets double zip loc bagged
    related links

    https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/altitude-sickness#1

    https://www.uchealth.org/today/2017/12/15/altitude-sickness/

    https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000133.htm

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/altitude-sickness/

    I,ve spent 5 decades hunting in a wide range of temps, I purchased several parkas over that time,
    now obviously we need to define (cold/temps) to me thats under 10F- down to maybe -30F with wind chill temps
    use gortex and synthetic insulation like thermaloft , get a parka with a hood
    just some well-proven tips you need several layers,
    you may be sitting near motionless for hours,
    bring a few high-calorie snacks youll be warmer if not hungry
    carry an insulated pad to sit on,
    Therm-A-SEAT Traditional Series Insulated Hunting Seat Cushion
    moisture from perspiration or rain is your enemy,
    Gortex is useful, dressing in layers is smart,
    thermal under wear is well worth the cost.
    https://www.amazon.com/LAPASA-Heavy...id=1575066175&sr=1-10&nodeID=5888820011&psd=1
    you want a good thermal vest
    https://www.eddiebauer.com/p/101121...MI3Jig17aQ5gIVmJOzCh2oawKdEAQYASABEgLZ4_D_BwE
    that can be put on over a flannel shirt
    https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-fire-hose-printed-flannel-lined-limber-jac-89327.html
    and under a parka
    real down insulation is useless if it gets wet.
    a long waist flannel shirt over long underwear helps a great deal,

    https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/pro....z_btnclk=YMAL-2911658&WT.z_pg_ref=prd2816402
    one common huge mistake is in trying to exert yourself through hard hiking, while bundled up
    ,you build up heat sweat,while exercising, let excess heat out you can,t afford to sweat.
    get clothing moist and it drastically reduces thermal efficiency
    as a result of the moisture build up your cold shortly after you stop,
    open the parka at least partially while hiking .
    don,t put on the vest or balaclava untill you cool from hiking in,


    carry a fleece balaclava to put on after you cool down from hiking , keeping your head and neck from losing heat goes a long way towards keeping warm
    https://www.amazon.com/Balaclava-Fl...ds=ski+balaclava+fleece&qid=1575065391&sr=8-7
    one tip, is to buy the best quality you can afford in at least one size larger than you might expect, a loose fit has several big advantages,
    (1) dead trapped air adds significant heat retention
    (2) having room between the inner parka and flannel shirt for a synthetic down vest to fit loosely helps a great deal
    (3) have a backpack to store a vest, balaclava and rain poncho
    a wide brim felt hat keeps the suns glare out of your eyes, but buy one a size or two, too large you may need it over a balaclava
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  10. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    http://www.mytopo.com/products/hunt-area-state.cfm?state=CO

    http://www.mytopo.com/products/hunt...MIhZvb-sbm4AIVDrazCh0qmQarEAAYAiAAEgJnQPD_BwE

    https://huntwise.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhZvb-sbm4AIVDrazCh0qmQarEAAYASAAEgKTc_D_BwE


    https://www.zerotohunt.com/how-to-find-public-hunting-land-as-a-beginner/

    current technology has made it fairly easy
    having the correct maps with PRIVATE property vs BLM boundary maps and a few APPS that provide related info, and ideally current aerial photos
    helps a great deal

    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/c12...MI1LiV2cnm4AIV0uDICh2tkwNyEAAYASAAEgI1qfD_BwE

    https://www.bestreviews.guide/gps-handhelds?origin=google&google_params[matchtype]=b&google_params[network]=g&google_params[device]=c&google_params[creative]=305167452634&google_params[keyword]=+gps +handhelds&google_params[adposition]=1t2&google_params[adgroupid]=61444576500&google_params[campaignid]=1602940956&bs=3IwBmK12kktwvO2N-9Oy8kRfHUPY9u_jy8ILs8gRlFl-vUfdKZIn9-J18pxf6uaDn0P-W45DXpmWJuLAU5x6og==&google_params[feeditemid]=&google_params[targetid]=kwd-302470492315&google_params[loc_interest_ms]=&google_params[loc_physical_ms]=9012039&google_params[devicemodel]=&google_params[target]=&dest=0&sys_id=0|605&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1LiV2cnm4AIV0uDICh2tkwNyEAAYAiAAEgJv8fD_BwE

    https://www.thegpsstore.com/Hiking-...MI1LiV2cnm4AIV0uDICh2tkwNyEAAYAyAAEgLNK_D_BwE


    https://www.nwtf.org/hunt/article/4-must-have-apps


    https://www.outdoorlife.com/tested-best-hunting-apps-for-hunters


    http://www.huntmap.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhZvb-sbm4AIVDrazCh0qmQarEAMYAiAAEgKfSfD_BwE


    https://www.huntstand.com/printed_maps?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImOu9vsjm4AIVwpyzCh12KgYyEAAYASAAEgJF_vD_BwE

    https://hobbyhelp.com/geocaching/best-gps-devices-for-geocaching/

    https://www.lifewire.com/best-hiking-gps-1683423

    http://www.10hunt.com/best-handheld-gps/

    https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...MI1LiV2cnm4AIV0uDICh2tkwNyEAMYAiAAEgISl_D_BwE
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
  11. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2014/08/11-mistakes-elk-hunters-make-and-how-avoid-them

    1. Mistake: Chief among failings, according to outfitters, is a hunter’s sorry state of physical readiness. Elk country isn’t all steep, high, rocky, and strewn with jackstraw timber, but that’s often where hunted elk go. Saying “I’m just a little slow” doesn’t negate the fact that elk are not slow. They live in big places and cover distance very quickly.

    ▶ Lesson: At a minimum, walk or jog for several weeks prior to your hunt to get your legs and lungs in the best shape possible.

    2. Mistake: Many riflemen shoot poorly without a bench. Over the years, I’ve muffed several shots that seemed at the time to be too easy to miss. As a guide, I’ve seen clients drill golf ball–size groups from a rest only to miss beach ball–size vitals with hasty pokes at elk.

    ▶ Lesson: Practice regularly with a paper bull’s-eye from sitting, kneeling, and off-hand positions. A .22 makes practice affordable and more comfortable. Determine a “90 percent kill” sight picture, and fire only when you have acquired it.

    3. Mistake: Long-range rifles often handicap hunters. Once, before I could stop him, a client crippled a far-off elk when we could have gotten closer. Another fellow who’d zeroed his rifle at 400 yards overshot a bull at 200. Heavy rifles also slow your step, tire you in the hills, and keep you from wanting to venture into the best elk cover.

    ▶ Lesson: Limit your rifle weight to 9 pounds. Zero at 200 yards; hold center to 250. But most important, always get as close as you can.

    4. Mistake: While I’m fond of iron sights, scopes are faster, with elk and reticle appearing in the same plane. But you lose target-acquisition speed, brightness, and field of view when you crank up the magnification. I’ve killed elk at 300 yards with 3X magnification. High power once cost a client an easy shot when he couldn’t find two bulls in his scope as they trotted by at 60 paces.


    ▶ Lesson: Keep your scope at 3X or 4X. You’ll have time to dial up for long shots.


    [​IMG]
    As fond as we are of iron sights, scopes are faster.

    Wayne Van Zwoll

    5. Mistake: Often on elk hunts, a good option can scuttle a better, easier one. Topping a ridge long ago, I glassed across a draw at meadows and second-growth that screamed elk. A few minutes later, as I glassed the slope, a twig snapped close by. The bull that had stood there surely wondered why I didn’t fire before it bolted.

    ▶ Lesson: Look near before you look far.

    6. Mistake: Elk hear well but dismiss some noises. Once, I sneaked into an aspen copse on an elk trail, pacing my steps as an elk might, and I passed a bedded cow at 4 yards to kill a bull. Padding along other tracks, I’ve surprised bulls that were bedded just feet away. Some were so astonished that they stood for a shot. But hunters who talk loudly or let their gear clack and rattle as they walk send elk packing.

    ▶ Lesson: Move like an elk where elk move. If you must communicate, whisper.


    7. Mistake: The wilderness pack trip has come to define “pure” elk hunting. But odds at a shot can improve on forest fringe near agriculture, where elk densities run higher, especially in late seasons. Success in Idaho’s Frank Church, Montana’s Bob Marshall, and Oregon’s Eagle Cap wildernesses hovers below 15 percent. While I’ve killed elk in all of them, they yield elk reluctantly.

    ▶ Lesson: Places of legend typically offer better scenery than shot opportunities.

    8. Mistake: Dreams of outsize bulls fuel elk fever. But assuming you can always kill a lesser elk later in the hunt if a big one doesn’t show early on is perilous thinking. One client passed up several fine bulls looking for a brute we knew was in the area. I admired his discipline, but he went home without firing a shot.

    ▶ Lesson: Have a realistic plan. As an outfitter pal advises his clients, “Shoot the elk you’d take the last day as soon as you see it.”

    9. Mistake: Crusted snow and bare ground can make for noisy tracking and spooked elk. But as I hunted through crust one day, I caught up with a bull, thanks to wind, topography, and knowing when to leave the track. I moved wide around the herd through cover, and my chance came as I paused at the cover’s edge. Across a meadow, the bull had stopped to check his backtrail.

    ▶ Lesson: Tracking can produce but always assume that the elk are stopping frequently and looking back.

    10. Mistake: While taking a friend on a hunt, we passed a thicket in the dark and heard elk. He wanted to stop, but I urged him on. We ignored the animals and kept climbing. At dawn, in some Douglas fir, the flick of an ear caught my eye. The bull fell to his .300.

    ▶ Lesson: Hiking past elk early puts you where elk don’t expect hunters to be. Don’t stop in the dark to listen for elk. They’ll spook. Hike purposefully; the elk will let you by, and you’ll shoot one later.

    11. Mistake: Many years ago, when bugling to attract bulls was still a novelty, a pal insisted on shadowing a herd bound for shade at dawn. The bull thought him a pest and left. That afternoon I probed the timber silently toward a sometimes-vocal elk. At last I glimpsed him long enough for a shot.

    ▶ Lesson: Rutting elk sometimes respond to a bugle by moving away. Still-hunt toward a noisy bull, and be aware that he might lie beyond alert cows.


    https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/8-tips-for-rifle-hunting-elk-for-the-first-time
    Going on my first elk hunt taught me some things. Here are some things that I learned that may be helpful to the first-time elk hunter:

    1. Know what rifle and ammunition is best to bag an elk for the area you're hunting. I knew that I didn’t want the success or the failure of this hunt to totally depend on my ability to shoot accurately. I researched what rifle would be best to take, and what ammunition I should shoot in that rifle to bag a bull elk.

    2. Spend plenty of time at the rifle range to know how your gun will perform at different distances. I made two trips to the rifle range with my rifle and my Leupold scope, and I shot three boxes of ammunition. Although I didn’t really need that much ammo, I wanted to build my confidence, so that when I put the crosshairs where I wanted the bullet to hit and squeezed the trigger, my bullet would hit there. I shot my rifle at several various distances to get ready for the hunt. If I had the opportunity to take a bull, I wanted to know for certain that I could make the shot and know my rifle was sighted in and how that rifle and ammunition would perform at different ranges.

    3. Be prepared for a wide variety of weather changes when hunting in the mountains. As I researched elk hunting, I learned that in the mountains the weather could change within two heartbeats, and I needed to be ready with the proper clothing regardless of what the weather did on any day I hunted. When I got to Wild Country Outfitters, I learned that the morning air temperature would be about 20 degrees. Through the day, the air temperature would warm up to about 40 degrees. We could have sunny weather one minute and the next minute spitting snow. So before the hunt, I knew that I needed to be prepared for a wide range of weather changes when hunting in the mountains.

    4. Wear layers. I had a base layer of Nomad underwear. Then I put Nomad all-season pants and jacket in the Mossy Oak Mountain Country pattern over the base layer. Finally, I had a late season Nomad vest. When the weather got cold, I had Nomad gloves to wear and a neck gaiter, and I wore a sock hat over the top of my hunting hat. I also carried a Nomad rain poncho, but the snow didn’t last long enough for me to use the poncho.

    5. Footwear is important and is a major concern for the first-time elk hunter. An elk hunt is all about climbing up mountains, climbing down mountains, walking on top of mountains and often hiking a number of miles each day. I chose Danner Pronghorn boots, and I can honestly say those boots felt like tennis shoes. I have issues with my feet, so I was really concerned about what type of boots I should take with me on this hunt. As I began to research the boots that I might want to consider, I looked at the features of boots from several different companies. I finally settled on the Danner Pronghorns, and they proved to be the best for me in the mountains of Utah.

    6. Realize that quality optics are critical to your success. Elk hunting is a spot-and-stalk type of hunting. Therefore, the farther you can see, and the clearer your optics are, the better you can determine whether the bulls you spot are worth making a long stalk or not. Those Leupold and rifle scope that I used were critical to my success.

    One of the things that I appreciated the most about my rifle scope was that it had Custom Dial System (CDS) technology in the scope. I sighted in my rifle at 100 yards. Once I determined the range that I might have to take a shot, I could dial the scope in to that range and hold my crosshairs tight on the spot I wanted to hit, and the scope would automatically calibrate the distance and the aiming point. Then I didn’t have to worry about hold over and trying to adjust the crosshairs to the right elevation to hit the spot I wanted to hit. With this scope, regardless of the range, once I dialed in the distance, I could hold my crosshairs dead-on and the bullet would hit right where the crosshairs intersected in my scope. That scope took all the guesswork out of the shot. I didn’t have to hold high or low.

    7. Wear the right kind of camo for the terrain you're hunting. This hunt wasn’t the first time I had worn Mossy Oak Mountain Countrycamo. I wore it last season during turkey season, because it fit into the environment where I was hunting turkeys. But this was the first time I had worn Mountain Country in the type of terrain and foliage for which it was designed. I saw just how effective that pattern could be when hunting elk. We had plenty of elk come in really close and not be able to see us. We had bulls from 10 feet to 10 yards away that never saw us until we moved. So for me, I knew that Mountain Country passed the elk test.

    8. Trust your guide. The elk I took scored 330 inches and was the best bull we saw in four days of hunting. I’ll have to admit that I saw several other good elk that I would have shot in a heartbeat if I’d been hunting by myself. However, I learned that my guide Ammo had been hunting elk most of his life and had been hunting elk on the land we were hunting for much of his life. He knew much more about field judging elk than I did. Although several times during this hunt, I wanted to fill my tag with the bull standing in front of me, by listening to and following the advice of Ammo, I was able to harvest the best bull that we saw on the hunt.


    https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/hunting/10-tips-to-make-your-elk-hunt-more-successful

    1. BE IN SHAPE
    Expect to be oxygen-deprived if you’re coming from the East or the South to hunt our mountains. But even so, you need to have your body in good condition. I explain to my hunters that they need to be in shape to hike at least six miles per day in rough terrain. They may want to get into a running routine before the hunt, lift weights and/or ride a bike. The better the physical condition you’re in, the better your odds will be to have a successful elk hunt. If you’re on a 10-day hunt, by days two or three, once your body becomes adjusted to the altitude, you may have days of hiking that aren’t so hard.

    2. STAY MENTALLY TOUGH
    Most people never consider this aspect of successful elk hunting, but often being mentally tough is the critical difference in success or failure. Whether you’re on a horse elk hunt trip or climbing mountains or hiking in the high country, you’ve got to bring a good attitude with you and decide that whatever is asked of you, you’ll try to do. Be strong enough in your mind that you can push past hurt when you need to do so. When you wake up in the morning, you’ve had a hard hike the day before, and you really don’t want to come out of your tent, you’ve got to push through, crawl out of that sleeping bag and be ready to go another day.

    Sometimes late in the afternoon, we’ll have one more mountain to climb. You must be mentally tough, have a positive attitude and decide that you will do whatever is necessary to get to where the elk are to get a shot. You must understand that if you hunt hard one day, and you don’t even see an elk, that you must be ready the next morning. That may be the day you take the bull elk of your dreams. The other part of being mentally tough is to have fun while you’re going through this ordeal of hunting elk.

    3. TAKE CARE OF YOUR FEET
    You won’t go anywhere or do anything if you don’t have quality boots and good socks. I never go cheap with boots. I wear Zamberlan boots that are Italian boots, but there are other quality boots you can purchase. These boots are made and designated for mountaineering for serious backpackers and climbers. They’re easy to purchase. You can buy them from Sportsmen’s Warehouse in this country, which means you can try them on and have the best fit. I like these boots because they’re very lightweight, have good arch supports and are stout boots.

    You need to match those boots with a quality pair of Merino wool socks. If you get a blister, your feet swell up on you or they begin to ache, and you can’t walk and hike to find your elk. We had one guy in elk camp two years ago who developed a blister on his heel the size of a quarter. He also didn’t come to elk camp with that mental toughness to push through the hurt. We patched up that blister with some moleskin. However, he didn’t want to go out and hunt, because he’d have to put on his boots. I realize blisters can be painful. Also, if your feet get wet, that will ruin your elk hunt. You need to have boots and socks that will keep your feet dry.

    4. KNOW THE AREA WHERE YOU’LL BE HUNTING
    Plan to get out and do some scouting before your hunt starts. You may want to visit the area you intend to hunt during the summer months before your elk hunt takes place in the fall. Study maps to see where your camp will be, the terrain you’ll have to hike through, and where you expect to find the elk. If you’re a non-resident, hopefully you’ll have a guide or an outfitter who will do that scouting for you. Or, find a friend in that region who will help you get started and give you an idea of where to hunt. Then you’ll be familiar with the landmarks.

    Also, before you go, learn the migration routes of the elk. Search for good wallows before an early-season hunt. Locate them on your maps, too. Today, so many maps are available in app form that you can pull up on your cell phone even when you don’t have cell phone coverage. Most Fish and Game Departments or Natural Resource state agencies will offer an app that you can get when you fill out your application for a tag, especially in the Western states where most of the elk are concentrated. Once you fill out your application online, there generally will be a map link that you can download on your cell phone. The worse-case scenario is you always can get a topographical map to look at the terrain where you’ll be hunting. OnX Maps, HuntData and www.mytopo.com are good places to get all kinds of maps that definitely will help you.

    5. REMEMBER OPTICS ARE IMPORTANT
    You’ve got to be able to see the critters that you’ll be hunting from as far away as you possibly can. Have a quality pair of binocularswith you. I prefer 10x binoculars, but I also realize that everyone’s eyes are somewhat different. You need to pick a pair of binoculars through which you can see the best. When you go to a sporting-goods store to buy binoculars, look through several pairs to decide which ones you’ll purchase. However, with all the technology available today, I don’t think there’s a bad pair of binoculars or spotting scopes on the market today. Too, if you’re planning to hunt with a rifle, you need a rifle scope that you know can give you a clear, bright picture of the elk you want to take. You must be comfortable aiming and shooting that rifle at dusk and at dawn.

    When I’m scouting for elk, I’ll often take my rifle and scope with no ammunition and go out to look at elk early and late to better be able to spot them in my scope. I think that knowing what animals look like in various lighting conditions is important to your success afield.

    6. BE PROFICIENT WITH YOUR RIFLE OR YOUR BOW
    [​IMG]If you’ll be hunting with a bow, you should have spent several months prior to your elk hunt shooting it. You need to be sure to have your sights set at the distances you may have to shoot. You need to be comfortable with your draw weight. If you’re shooting a rifle, go to the range and learn how far you can shoot accurately and comfortably before your trip. You must know that when you squeeze the trigger, and the target is in the center of your sight picture, that that’s exactly where the bullet will land. You don’t want to get out in the field, see your elk and try to push the limits of shooting accurately. Remember, shooting a bow and a rifle are fun. I believe a bowhunter should practice out to between 40-60 yards. Most archery elk hunts are held during the rut when the elk are being stupid. Generally then we can get those bull elk to within 40-60 yards or perhaps even closer.

    We had an archery event out here in Utah, and some of the guys were bragging about being able to shoot their bows accurately out to 100 yards. They validated those brags by shooting accurately at that distance. However, realistically, I don’t think you should take a shot at more than 40-60 yards or even closer at an elk with a bow. The firearm hunter should be able to shoot accurately from 200-300 yards.

    7. KNOW HOW TO DRESS PROPERLY FOR AN ELK HUNT
    Your base layer is the most important layer of your hunting clothes when you’re pursuing elk. I’m a big fan of Merino wool for a base layer. You can buy different weights of Merino wool base layers, depending on how cold or warm the weather will be when you’re hunting elk. I like Merino wool because of its great wicking qualities. But what I mainly like about Merino wool is odor control. Even if you’ve been sweating in that base layer for three days, Merino wool tends to keep the hunter’s odor fairly neutral.

    Next I put a quality insulation layer on top of the base layer. Once more, depending on the weather, that clothing needs to keep you dry and comfortable. In the early season, you may want to consider wearing a lightweight rain suit that can be easily folded up and put in your pack. If you’re hunting in the late season, you may want to wear wool pants and a warm jacket that’s also waterproof and windproof. But your most important layer is that base layer.

    Most elk bowhunts begin in August. I suggest wearing lightweight Merino wool then because you can wear that like a t-shirt, and it will pull moisture off your body and keep you cool. At the end of September or the first part of October, I’d go to a mid-weight base Merino layer, as the temperatures drop down to the 30s, 40s or 50s during the day. You definitely need a rain jacket and pants in your pack then. Most elk hunting is spot-and-stalk, so you’ll be doing a lot of aerobic activity. For that reason, you don’t want to be too warm. However, you do want to have extra clothes in your pack, so if the weather changes quickly, and some rain or snow occur, then you have that outer layer to keep you dry.

    8. STAY HYDRATED
    No matter how warm or cold the weather is on your elk hunt, you’ve got to keep yourself hydrated. The secret to staying hydrated is to take some type of water filter with you. Having the ability to purify water is very important when you’re hiking in the mountains. You won’t always have pristine water to drink there. If you don’t remain hydrated, you’ll cramp up and have a miserable hunt. One of the relatively new filtration systems is the Straw Filter, which I like because it’s only about six inches long and fits in your shirt pocket. You can lay down beside a stream and suck all the good, clean water you want out of that stream.

    I’ve seen people load up on water in containers and put them in their backpacks. However, after you’ve been hiking and climbing for a while, that water becomes very heavy. But in the mountains when you’re hunting elk, there’s most always a water source – melting snow, a stream or a creek. Besides a purification straw or some kind of purification system, do take an empty plastic bottle with you that you can fill up. Some filtering systems state that they’re good for 1,000 usages. Companies are manufacturing more of these filtering systems, especially for third world countries. You also can bring powdered sports drinks to put in your water to replenish electrolytes you’ve lost from climbing and sweating.

    9. BRING SOME TYPE OF SHELTER AND SLEEPING GEAR


    Take a shelter with you in your backpack that you can roll up, like a one-man tent. You may get too far from camp at times while hunting elk to return in one day. You may need a shelter to get into, especially if rain or snow is falling. Also if you get on a herd of elk, you may want to spend the night out near the elk to enable you to get up in the morning and have a much better chance to take an elk than if you have to hike back to camp and hike back to the elk’s location the next morning. Too, plan to have good sleeping gear to use when you return to camp. Usually you’ll put in a hard day of walking and climbing each day when elk hunting. Getting a restful night of sleep will play an important role on how you feel when you wake up, and how well you’ll perform the next day. When you get to camp, you want to eat well and sleep well.

    10. LISTEN TO YOUR GUIDE OR OUTFITTER, AND LEARN TO BLOW A COW ELK CALL
    Your guide or outfitter’s job is not only to get you to a place where you can see and possibly take an elk. He’s also responsible for making sure that you’re not so tired and worn out when you reach the elk that you can’t take a shot. Most guides and outfitters have been on numerous elk hunts. They want to help you become successful and want to make sure you have an enjoyable experience. I suggest that anyone going elk hunting should have a cow elk call and learn how to blow it before they arrive at elk camp. Then no matter what happens during the hunt, you’ll have a device – the cow elk call – to make a bull elk come to you. For instance, you may get separated from your guide or outfitter and see a bull. By simply giving a few cow calls you may be able to pull that bull to you.




    https://www.wideopenspaces.com/top-6-overlooked-rifle-elk-hunting-techniques-put-meat-freezer/

    So with rifle season fast approaching, I've compiled the top six overlooked rifle elk hunting techniques that will help you put elk meat in your freezer.

    1. Glass in thick cover
    Glassing for elk on open hillsides often leads to elk sightings, especially cows and young bulls. But some of the best sighting can be done in thick cover. Slipping quietly through thick timber and glassing even in the thickest fir re-growth areas can reveal big bulls like this one.


    2. Find flat spots amid steep slopes
    You should invest in topographic maps of where your hunting and seek out the flat spots at the head of drainages. It's easy to get overwhelmed when hunting elk in big country like Montana. Hiking 15 miles in a single day with no real plan is about as productive as staying in camp all day. Find areas that are likely to hold bulls. Thick flat areas where water starts flowing at the top of a creek drainage is as good a starting point as you can get. This single tip may be the best time saver you'll ever learn when hunting elk.


    3. Pay attention to the wind
    So many hunters seem to ignore the wind. If you have to hike an extra mile to approach an area from downwind, it will be time well spent. After hiking three or four miles over rough terrain, now is not the time to avoid a little more physical exertion.

    4. Be in shape
    Elk hunting hurts when you're not in shape! Hiking five miles to where the elk are requires motivation, carrying 70 pounds of meat five miles takes stamina. Being in shape for elk hunting isn't the same as being in shape for deer hunting or even in shape for a marathon. It's different. Be ready to hike up, down, over blow downs, carry a heavy pack and be able to run when you need to. Be in shape before you get to the mountain.



    5. Slow down
    I have a friend who is in excellent shape but he hikes ten miles in a single day and often complains about not seeing elk. It is much better to spend a little more time sneaking through a prime area than to put on miles in search of an elk.

    6. Hunt in the afternoon and be where the elk are until dark
    So many times I see hunters heading into the woods early who leave at midday. Five of my last six elk were shot several miles from my truck between 2 pm and 4 pm. Hunt until dark and be prepared to hike out with a headlamp. Staying in the woods back where the elk are will pay huge dividends.

    Early rifle season elk don't just disappear after the rut is over. Knowing the areas where to find elk and hunting in those areas all day will consistently put you in spitting distance of bulls. Slowing down, and glassing will put them in your crosshairs.
     
  12. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    yes I figure Ill get a few people commenting or disagreeing

    I get into an endlessly varied discussion about the choices in rifles and cartridges they or I have and use,
    with a nearly endless group of the members of the hunt club I am a member of and guys I meet at various ranges
    when we are younger most of us seem to watch what the older guys we know use and in many cases we assume,
    that because they are generally successful that they know what they are doing and they must have made the correct choices,
    so many of us start by selecting similar equipment.

    Quote:
    some people go out of their way to damage fireams, purposely they want to reduce interest in hunting, or the ability of hunters to plan a hunt successfully

    [​IMG]
    the first time I went out of state to hunt ( northern california)
    I bought a decent rifle case,
    to make it easy to find in case there were several hunters with similar cases

    I painted mine in
    ALTERNATING

    HOT PINK
    SKY BLUE
    BLOOD RED
    ELECTRIC GREEN
    PASSION PURPLE
    AND
    HAZARD ORANGE


    3" wide STRIPES
    needless to say it stood out from the other luggage cases
    while I waiting to board the plane I see the guys loading luggage on the plane DELIBERATELY drop several rifle cases off the conveyor belt, by pushing them off the edge with their feet , then picking them up and throwing them back on the conveyor belt, where most fell off a second or third time before they go loaded in the planes cargo section, I was REALLY PISSED and complained immediately and was told they would look into that..with a stupid smile from the boarding girl I complained too!
    I never heard a word from the air lines about this later, it was the LAST time I flew with firearms
    (btw the case was dented and heavily scratched but the rifle inside was fine) so it pays to buy a good quality case.

    btw there was a small pad lock on each latch and several layers of duct tape over and completely around the case keeping the locks from bouncing or snagging on other cases, that is no longer alowed, one more reason I drive rather than fly from florida to western states to hunt

    just some facts

    (1) the vast majority of the larger game is killed at well under 250 yards
    (2)most people can,t accurately judge ranges past 200 yards
    (3) very few people can consistently hit a 3" diameter target past 100 yards shooting from a rapidly acquired field position
    (4) almost any centerfire cartridge with a reasonable projectile choice, in the hands of a decent rifleman, will be,
    and can consistently be lethal if the shots correctly placed,
    and you have a decent knowledge of the games anatomy and your rifle/cartridge limitations
    (5) there are no "MAJIC" rifles or cartridges but there are better choices and less than ideal choices
    (6) many people don,t practice nearly enough to become decent and consistently accurate shots
    (7) most people who are unsuccessful are unwilling to put the time and effort into learning how to become a successful hunter.
    (8) buying the very latest and fastest or flattest shooting trajectory rifle , is unlikely to significantly improve your kill ratio
    compared to cartridge designs that have been sold for many decades like a, 25/06, 270 win,30/06, 7mm mag,280 rem,35 whelen or 300 mag.
    (9) learning to hand load tends to increase the time you spend practicing your shooting
    (10)getting off your butt, and actually spending time walking around in the field from dawn and yes still out walking or observing until dark
    more than just on the opening day hunt ,does help improve your odds of success a good deal.
    (11) yes its a fact , the more time that is spent walking and observing in the field, and off the roads,
    and in rifle practice DOES IN FACT increase your odds of success.
    (12) money spent on well researched quality equipment, and familiarity with it, through practice,
    rather than purchasing lots of cheap crap , and constantly buying the latest fad ,tends to pay big dividends in your consistent success.
    (13) the most consistently successful hunters I know have used the same equipment for decades
    (14) good Vibram soled boots, a warm jacket, a decent hat and vest, a decent rifle sling, good scope and mounts and consistent rifle maintenance does count!
    (15) do your research, spending time hunting an area with very low game population density tends to be wasted effort compared to results youll have if you do prior research
    buy topo maps, talk to area game wardens and biologists prior to the hunt!


    a few similar tips found on-line, and it certainly might help to buy a few related books and videoshttps://www.academy.com/explore/8-deer-hunting-tips-beginners

    https://www.knightandhale.com/field-notes/deer-hunting-success-tips/

    https://www.chuckhawks.com/first_opening_day.htm

    https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2018/9/18/8-tips-for-a-successful-diy-elk-hunt/

    https://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2016/09/31-diy-tips-for-the-ultimate-elk-hunt/

    https://www.backcountrychronicles.com/choose-elk-unit/
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  13. DorianL

    DorianL solid fixture here in the forum Staff Member

  14. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    thats a grin!:D
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021

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