engine dyno predictive software

[grumpyvette]

some free engine related downloads

http://www.powerperformancenews.com/for ... w-230.html
http://www.compcams.com/Camquest/default.asp

comp cams is now offering a free cam sellection software,

THIS IS A USEFUL TOOL,
this is useful in seeing the lift/duration/LCA they suggest for your application,
in most cases they get fairly close so its a tool thats useful
, now you don,t necessarily need to buy a COMP CAM but a cam with a similar lift/duration/LCA from your favorite manufacturer probably should be fairly close to whats recommended
keep in mind the software can,t differentiate between an off the shelf intake or one extensively port matched and ported,
, it can,t tell the difference between a crap valve job and a 5 angle valve job with a back cut valve,if port and bowl clean-up was done,
or headers blended entrances with matched length 38" primaries and 18"long 3.5" collectors and ones with
20 inch tube primaries and a 4"long 3" collector, and it certainly can,t account for a good tune vs one not so well balanced ETC.
and while you may enter factors like the cams LSA and LCA,
it generally won,t show how those changes effect scavenging efficiency.
soft ware dynos are generally accurate to within 5%-10% ,
but thats at times 30-hp to -40-hp, or more that is either potentially ignored or assumed.
some free, some NOT, but most are useful, and while in some cases the price seems steep the software can help make smarter choices and keep you from screwing up the build with badly mis-matched components
keep in mind predicted numbers will be suspect! but if you make changes and see a 5%-10% GAIN you can be reasonably sure that similar changes on a real engine will result is some change in a similar direction, obviously
GARBAGE INFO IN,
RESULTS IN,
GARBAGE INFO OUT,
in the predicted results,
so take the effort to verify what data your inputting

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/dyno-software.784/

http://www.virtualengine2000.com/

http://www.maxracesoftware.com/PIPE395.htm

http://www.virtualengine2000.com/Calculator.htm

http://www.virtualengine2000.com/?gc...FQYLbAodIEkP2A

http://racingdownloads.com/

http://www.audietech.com/

ITS not free at $460 but if youve got the patience too learn how to use it, and load all its requested input data its a great source of info on engines, and predicts results well, but it can be a P.I.T.A. to use at times


http://www.auto-ware.com/software/eap/eap.htm

IVE got EA PRO, its basically a P.I.T.A. and very time intensive to load all the data requested correctly, get lazy and guess on info and your results will be garbage, but it does tend to give reasonable results PROVIDED you input ALL the correct info,carefully, its the old "garbage info in=garbage info out"

http://performancetrends.com/Engine_Log_Book_v1.htm

more interesting stuff

http://www.performancetrends.com/cam_test_stand.htm

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=240&p=285&hilit=flow+numbers#p285

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=148&p=182&hilit=flow+numbers#p182

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=333&p=409&hilit=flow+numbers#p409

http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/et_calculator.html

http://www.camquest.com/

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=8460

http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint.php

 

[grumpyvette]

Here Paul ,see how this compares to your EA Pro:

http://www.enginedesigner.com/enginedesigner.aspx

that looks a bit easier to use than EA pro but not as detailed,, nor does it seem to have the promps and on EA pro, it constantly makes suggestions,and askes if you really want to do that, the problem with EA pro is you need to fill in a good deal more data, it should come with a good deal of info already filled into a data base but its basically blank untill YOU fill in the data base, (at least on the version I bought)once you fill in the data it runs the combo and makes further suggestions and points out possiable improvements or flaws

 

[filmjay]

You forgot the old venerable, Desktop Dyno Series.

http://www.proracingsim.com/desktopdyno.htm

...and Dynomation.

http://www.proracingsim.com/dynomationmainpage.htm

 

[grumpyvette]

see thats why your here...to keep me strait!! :lol:


cam install info
I think most experienced guys have two or three degree wheels for that very reason,
(that the larger size is tough to fit in an engine compartment on an installed engine)
I bought these
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-62191/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66791/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66830/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4927/overview/

JUST TRYING TO FIND TDC??

you FIRST disconnect the battery and use a ratchet to spin the engine slowly by hand , useing the damper bolt and a 5/8 socket after removing the spark plugs, chalking the wheels and putting the cars trans in neutral

ways to turn over the engine WITHOUT the starter

theres large bolts for your ballancer

theres crank sockets

Crankshaft Socket Tool For turning AND MOUNTING Degree Wheels

CRANK NUTS

crank rotaters

flywheel turning tools

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/80743/10002/-1

finding TDC

youll need a piston stop and degree wheel to be exact
but thats not 100% required unless you want it to work correctly???

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CRN-99412-1&N=700+115&autoview=sku
use of a camshaft install handle generally reduces the chances of damaged cam bearings

read

http://www.2quicknovas.com/happyTDC.html

btw you might want to verify this next time you degree in a cam, so that next time you use dyno simulation software you enter the data correctly,

theres a hugely popular myth that simply is wrong, if your using a dyno simulation software program, ...,
no you don,t reduce or subtract the lift of the cam lobe by the lash, clearance,
when calculating the valve lift of a solid lifter cam,
and you don,t subtract the lifter seat movement on a hydraulic cam,
as that change in lift rate is ALL absorbed or removed on the cam lobes feed ramp
the lifter still lift,s the valve to the full lift.
measure the difference the edge of the lifter moves from the time the lifter is on the cams base circle to peak lift than set the lifter back on the base circle again and set the dial indicator to zero with a .0024 feeler gauge between the lifter and dial indicator, and re- measure total lift.
nothing changes on that peak lift , its change is absorbed by the cam lobes feed ramp, the rate of lift per degree of rotation is very slightly delayed , not reduced
the valve lash is clearance it does NOT add or subtract from the lift , if you have a solid lift cam rated at lets say .520 lift with a 1.5 :1 ratio rocker, changing the lash clearance,will effect how it runs and when the valve comes off the valve seat by a degree or two ,but unless you add a good deal more than the .024 specified lash clearance or so thats listed, on the spec card, for lash clearance, it has ALMOST ZERO EFFECT on total lift, and a change to a 1.6:1 ratio will effectively increase the lift to .554

the lifter starts on the base circle, the lobe passing under the lifter causes the lifter and pushrod to move up away from the base circle too peak lobe lift, the rocker ratio increases that lift at the valve through the leverage it provides working through the pivot point on the ball or axle inside the rocker centered on the rocker stud,

heres your typical cam spec card this one happens to be the crane cam I selected for my corvette

heres the spec card from the t-buckets 406 sbc

if you were to graph in the lash slack the valve lift would start a degree or so later and end a degree or so earlier,
but the total lift would remain constant as the distance the lifter travel in the blocks lifter bore as the cam lobe rotates under it,
from the base circle to the peak lift remains consistent

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-62191/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66791/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66830/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4927/overview/

 

[filmjay]

HAHA!
Well, I found a copy of Desktop Dyno 2000 floating around the net, but it seems pretty limited.
I was wondering what would be the better software or version of these programs?
I'd LOVE Dynomation or Desktop Dyno 5, but I don't have $300 for Dynomation and am wondering how much better DD5 might be.

 

[grumpyvette]

any software dyno is only as accurate as the input data alows, DD2000 does a decent job, DD5 does a better job, BUT only if you take the time to put in the head flow numbers and corrected info rather than relieing on the generic values
Ive compared DD2000 results to EA-pro results and while EA-pro gives more accurate and detailed answers and tells you what your doing wrong, which parts hurt your results ETC. the peak hp numbers, both software programs predict are at times very similar.

for those guys that are wondering what were even talking about??

http://www.proracingsim.com/desktopdyno.htm

http://www.auto-ware.com/software/softwareindex.htm

btw

http://home.pacbell.net/mtm68/camfiles.html

guys , keep in mind this is NOT an exact BLACK and WHITE OFF or ON point your looking to hit, as you select components in a build, that allows you to achieve the ideal combo, its more like a SERIES of DOZENS of OVER LAPPING BELL CURVES ,EACH CHOICE IS A COMPROMISE in some area,yes you can make intelligent well informed choices to maximize your results but don,t think small mistakes or perfect choices will totally ruin or make a combo far better than anyone elses, its the combination, generally not a single choice (UNLESS ITS SPECTACULARLY BAD) that makes or breaks the final results theres dozens of choices to be made and each has a sweet point that will vary depending on the choices made with the other components selected, EACH CHOICE WILL EFFECT THE RESULTS YOU GET WITH THE OTHER CHOICES ,YES, YOU CAN MAXIMIZE YOUR RESULTS BY TRYING TO GET AS CLOSE TO THE PEAK ON EACH CURVE AS YOU CAN BUT SOME CHOICES WILL NECESSARILY NEGATE THE BEST SELECTION ON OTHER CHOICES.
ID also point out that MOST ENGINE DYNO PREDICTIVE SOFT WARE IS NOTORIOUS FOR PRODUCING LESS THAN REALISTIC RESULTS < AND WHILE ITS USEFUL ITS HARDLY RELIABLE, AS TO PREDICTING ABSOLUTE POWER/TORQUE NUMBERS AT ANY RPM RANGE

COMPRESSION TO REQUIRED FUEL OCTANE

FUEL OCTANE REQUIRED FOR CYLINDER HEAT LEVELS

EXHAUST SCAVENGING EFFICIENCY

THERMAL LOSSES TO FRICTION AS RPM AND LOADS INCREASE

OIL TEMPS TO LUBRICATION EFFICIENCY

IGNITION ADVANCE CURVE

COOLANT TEMPS VS COOLING EFFICIENCY

AIR TEMP VS COMBUSTION EFFICIENCY

QUENCH EFFICIENCY

PORT FLOW VELOCITY

PORT STALL SPEED

VALVE CROSS SECTIONAL AREA TO CYLINDER VOLUME
ETC...ETC...ETC.

if you select a certain STATIC COMPRESSION, your limited to the fuel octane ratings you can use without getting into detonation
this also changes with the cylinder head temperature, quench, cam timing, overlap, cylinder scavenging, ignition advance, the finish or thermal barrier coatings on the piston and combustion chamber, oil temperature, coolant temperature fuel and air temperature, use of and combustion temp regulators like methanol/water mist injection, and a dozen other factors each one of which is going to effectively generate a bell curve of performance that over lays and effects the other factors its melded with.
you can look up info related to each listed factor above "and a dozen more" and try to select the best possible choice, but what you'll eventually realize is that its 100% impossible to maximize ALL the potential, related factors simultaneously.
In an ideal internal combustion 4 stroke engine there would be zero friction, the fuel would ignite instantly at TDC, produce ever increasing pressure from TDC to at least 145 degrees past TDC on the power stroke,at a rate just a bit below a realistic safety factor concerning the strength of the rotating assembly and burn completely leaving no residual emissions or ash and achieve near 100% efficiency with little heat,loss.
we currently use about 8:1 DYNAMIC compression as a target simple due to the crappy low octane pump fuel available currently in most areas to prevent engine damage


viewtopic.php?f=55&t=2718&p=41142&hilit=octane+calculate#p41142

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4081&p=10861#p10861

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/cam-tech-c.htm

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=9816&p=40642&hilit=detonation+damage#p40642

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=727

 

[filmjay]

Well, whatever version, it's a pretty neat tool and even the simplest version is still worth hours of amusement.

 

[grumpyvette]

I get a great number of emails and PM's from guys on how to choose a cylinder head for their combo. I use different spreadsheets, but want to show you properly using Pipemax can net you great results. You need to know a few things about your heads and if your porter or the person your dealing with doesn't want to share them with you, find a new porter!

You need to know the following to make wise choices:
runner length
head cc's
flow at your lift

formulas:
Average_CSA = Port_Volume_CC / (Port_CenterLine_Length * 16.387)
Average_FPS = ( Flow_CFM * 2.4 ) / Average_CSA

I just had a name builder use a set of Dart iron 365cc BBC heads on 511 Truck Pulling engine. It made 1040@8000 and 760@6400. First let's do the math.

Average_CSA = 365cc / 98.22 (6 x 16.387)
Average_CSA = 3.72in

Average_FPS = 1056 (440x2.4) / 3.72
Average_FPS = 283 FPS

Head Data:
3.98in² MIN
122 chamber
365cc runner
2.350/1.880
4.600 fixture
.200 154/155/125
.300 229/232/170
.400 290/293/205
.500 346/344/237
.600 392/390/262
.700 420/417/277
.800 434/431/288
.900 440/437/295
1.00 446/441/299

I used the recommendation below for this application. However, being a small engine the magic is in adjusting the average air speed, which I done. Also notice what the heads flowed and what the engine wanted.
http://www.maxracesoftware.com/PIPE395.htm
What PipeMax recommends:

 

[87vette81big]

We need Phil's input on Turbo builds & Analysise .
1400 Hp has become baseline builds for many.
Procharger.
Vortech.
Single & Twin Turbo custom builds are where many are today.