ever purchased an out of state muscle or project car?

[grumpyvette]

in many cases its darn hard to find a muscle car in decent shape at a good price, most are currently 40 plus years old and if the price makes it attractive its more than likely at least partly rusted or in some way well past the LIKE NEW stage of life,its at times a fun weekend road trip on other occasions its a money pit on wheels .
obviously youll need a bill of sale and a title so get that paperwork.
on one trip we went and picked up an AMX that was in great shape, we found advertised in Alabama, (except for a faulty transmission) that we knew about before driving out to get the car), we loaded it onto the trailer and drove it home without any problems and enjoyed the trip.
BTW DON.T EVEN CONSIDER use of a car trailer without having DUAL AXLES and 4 car size tires, a single axle car trailers a bad accident looking for a location
I once drove to Georgia to pick up a 1967 GTO, that was advertised only to find the address did not exist, again a nice trip but I was pissed off, luckily we learned to have all future cars inspected, and documented before driving out to get them.
Ive done something similar (buying an out of state car, after having a friend inspect it, before driving out of state.) but we always used a rented or personally owned car trailer to transport the cars, rather than try to drive them back or use a tow bar, simply because Ive heard far to many stories of supposedly great deals (THAT RUN GREAT)that barely ran or obviously have not run for years, when you went to pick them up,most cars we bought were towed on a 4 wheel car trailer with a pick-up truck, most times my ford 350 crew cab dually, that I owned until recently.

towing a car on a trailer like these two pictures posted below, with minimal tie downs is VERY RISKY

http://mibearings.com/ (bearings and hubs)
read these threads



http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/source-for-muscle-car-bodys.8457/#post-29663



http://enthusiast.yearone.com/vehicle-i ... -decoding/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-should-have-tow-rings-or-hooks.592/#post-778

don,t forget to inspect and grease the trailer bearings before you begin the trip,and bring a few chains, binders and a chain jack and if its your trailer have a dozen strong cargo loops welded into the trailer frame (its also a good idea on a race car to have two of these rings welded to both the front and rear frame corners for ease of transport, and security on the trailer at times)

http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Ratchet-S ... nting-Ring

where you have options on how to secure the car on the transport trailer, verify the lights work,correctly and the trailer license is current and valid and bring at least two spare trailer tires and bearings and a decent floor jack on the trip and some basic tools

and a spare set of magnetic trailer lights sure won,t hurt
http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Lights/ ... L21RK.html

 

[Randy_W]

That's good info Grump, I bought the last 7 out of state, never seem to find what I want close by.

 

[grumpyvette]

last year I had a guy I knew who was moving out of state, drop off a car, (a 1970 dodge) he said that he wanted me to build an engine for,(it later became obvious he just wanted a free place to park the car until he sold it rather than having to transport the car out of state with out an engine or transmission) but he never dropped off any cash, engine parts or a core engine, as a basis to work with, so it sat for months out behind the shop, then I started calling and told him, too either get with the engine build or pick up the car and tow it out of here! I spend a good deal of time on the phone, and he eventually told me he had sold the car and the new owner would pick it up....I got calls about every 3 weeks telling me he had not forgotten but needed time to pick up the car, about 6 months of that and I told him he had 90 days to pick it up or it was going to be sold for scrap as abandoned....well he showed up about 4 weeks later with a decent trailer but get this, he expected to drive the car up on the trailer as the previous owner never mentioned it had no engine or transmission, a couple quick phone calls confirmed that it never did have them while it was parked, so I let the guy borrow a chain jack to load the car, and he obviously needed a bit of experience because you generally jack the front of the trailer as high as you can to get the angle as low as possible at the rear transition from the load ramps to the trailer body floor and he didn,t seem to know that, until I showed him how raising the front of the trailer lowered the rear ramp transition angle to clear the car frame as the car rolled up on the trailer.
he also did not have several tie down d-rings to allow straps and the chain jack to be used easily, but I was so happy to get the car off the property I welded several onto his trailer in the required locations

 

[grumpyvette]

buying an out of area project car, can be a great deal or a total rip-off, obviously theres precautions that should be made, before you go putting a deposit on or making a trip to inspect a car get the vin info, clear pictures of the vin tag, and registration info and check it out with the state tag agency, and makes sure the sellers I.D. is listed as the current owner, and ADDRESS MATCH, CHECK IF THE VIN is LISTED AS STOLEN if you can,t inspect a car personally look up a local licensed car appraisal service, in the area and get them to send 24 pictures and a detailed appraisal
example my brother-in-law bought a
"numbers matching big block 4 speed corvette"
off ebay, from about 4 pictures,it was a numbers matching corvette, but it needs a great GREAT deal more work that the posted pictures would lead one to believe, in fact other than a running engine there was not much that didn,t require replacement and upgrading, the brakes and interior, clutch seats lighting etc were all pretty much original but worn out or trash...it really pays to inspect a car closely before purchasing it or have a licensed appraiser inspect the car, if he had paid for a professional detailed inspection he might be out $100-$200 and not out over $8000 and counting
have you ever purchased an out of state car as a project, I know from experience that finding your dream project car in good condition rather than a rusted pile of junk is rarely easy to do, when your talking about 10-60 year old project cars in many cases. having a good dependable car trailer and understanding that few project cars will be as good as they are represented to be after close inspection is just standard practice, so it helps if you can get as much info and as many pictures as possible before making the trip to pick up a new out of state project car and just as obviously , legal title transfer and not sending a large deposit to an unknown seller or giving him your credit info or back info is smart

If youve purchased some guys project car from an unknown person you have got to assume that you know very little about the engines condition and if you have gotten some info from the seller its at least potentially , lets say , as seen thru rose colored glasses too out right lies, designed to get the car off the property, the old "IT WAS RUNNING FINE WHEN I PARKED IT" has more than a few times been found to be an obvious (EXAGGERATION) or out right lie.

GETTING THE VIN NUMBER, VERIFY THE CARS OWNERSHIP , CLEAR TITLE AND VIN NUMBER AND GETTING A CAR-FACTS REPORT, VERIFY THE SELLERS ADDRESS AND I.D. CERTAINLY HELPS
KEEP IN MIND WHEN BUYING A USED CAR YOU CAN DO A SEARCH ON PREVIOUS DAMAGE

http://www.vehicle-buyer.com/damage-car ... ted-title/

http://www.carfax.com/cfm/general_check ... KNC-Google

at least two and preferably 4 wheels PLUS the frame should be solidly secured with straps rated at at least 20,000 lbs

bolted and welded tie rings every few feet along the trailer frame are preferred, and youll need to add these as few trailers come with those solid multiple tie down anchor points installed.....you can buy several, a dozen usually cost less than $90 which is FAR less than it will cost you if the car comes off the trailer while your towing it!
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth ... 97711.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/5400-lb-ca ... 36022.html

and welding one of the tie down rings to each part of your race cars frame, adjacent too,and matching the trailer tie downs makes securing the car far easier
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...u-really-can-use-a-car-transport-trailer.845/

fill the bearing buddies on each trailers axle before every trailer trip use
https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Tr...MI39yrmvaQ4gIVxLXACh0UZAxwEAAYASAAEgIdA_D_BwE

measure and order , and install then fill the correct bearing buddy set.

• 
  
  
  • • Hub Bore Diameter
      • 1.781 Inch (3)
      • 1.810 Inch (1)
      • 1.938 Inch (2)
      • 1.968 Inch (2)
      • 1.98 Inch (7)
      • 2.047 Inch (2)
      • 2.080 Inch (3)
      • 2.240 Inch (2)
      • 2.328 Inch (3)
      • 2.440 Inch (2)
      • 2.441 Inch (4)
      • 2.562 Inch (2)
      • 2.717 Inch (2)

just like most things theres a wide variation in price and quality in tie down straps, Id strongly suggest you use several, and use a minimum of 20,000 lb rated straps,
if you own the trailer weld on at least 4 very sturdy anchor ring tie downs on each side of the trailer and having 6 or more per side welded to the frame is even better
when you buy some guys project you need to assume its in far less drivable condition than its being represented to be and in fact it may need to be totally rebuilt, or have serious maintenance issues, busted and missing components or in fact be totally a collection of junk parts.
ITS ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA TO TRAILER A NEW PROJECT CAR THAT IS SEVERAL YEARS TO DECADES OLD,HOME RATHER THAN DRIVE IT BEFORE CAREFULLY INSPECTING THE LIGHTS,BRAKES,COOLING AND LUBE SYSTEM FUNCTION

you need to start by asking to drive the car carefully and before you do check all the fluid levels and don,t forget to check the brake fluid and brake function and if its not drive-able assume the engine and drive train need a total--TOTAL! rebuild!
its a really good idea to do a compression check,and if the cars been sitting for more than a few weeks its a given the battery needs charging or replacement, and the fuel and fuel filter and air filter should be changed, verify ignition timing, ignition timing advance, oil and fuel pressure, carefully inspect vacuum hoses for loose fittings or cracked hoses, etc. and coolant circulation in the radiator.
Change the oil and oil filter, change the fuel, you have no idea how old it is and flush the fuel lines and replace the fuel filter,. Don't forget to fill the new oil filter with oil; don't put a dry filter on the engine.
Before you turn the key to start you'll need to lube up the cylinders with some regular oil or something like a squirt of marvel mystery oil then spin the engine with the starter without the plugs to lube the cylinder walls and clear the oil mostly out of the cylinders ,yes it will be messy and noisy, so do it outside where getting a bit of oil on the grounds not a big problem. Don't worry about smoke when it does start, it will eventually dissipate.
Now that you've taken care of the cylinders you need to circulate oil throughout the engine by using a oil pump prime tool and an air ratchet or large electric drill and do this until oil from the push-rods pumps out of the rockers and the oil pressure gauge reads at least 20 psi. obviously on most engines you'll need too Remove the distributor to do this so it helps to put the engine at TDC before removing the distributor and marking where the ignition rotor points and to install new spark plugs and at least closely inspect the cap, rotor and measure resistance in the ignition wire and test battery voltage and coil polarity and assure the ignition timing and ignition advance and firing order are correct!
once the cars is running for at least a few hours Id suggest pulling the new spark plugs and inspecting them as you can learn a great deal from them about current engine tuning and condition,

When you've done all this, and believe that everything you've done is okay, check the fluid levels in the engine,transmission and radiator put it all back together and try to start the engine. If there is fresh fuel and fuel pressure it should start right up, yes It's gonna smoke a few minutes until all that lube you squirted into the cylinders gets burned out. Don't be surprised if the cars been sitting for months or years if have some sort of oil or trans fluid leaks, broken vacuum lines,busted belts or coolant leaks or something unexpected happens. After a few months to several years of not running anything is possible. After a few miles or so, change the fuel filter again.


IF your SELLING a project car be darn sure you get the title transferred only after you get cash, in full! you certainly won,t be the first guy to have some guy purchase a car get the title transferred out of state and then have a check bounce! even a cashiers check or money order,and be sure the purchaser has insurance, you don,t want to go thru legal problems if the cars still listed in your name if he does something stupid with it or wrecks the car on the way home



RELATED THREADS




http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/source-for-muscle-car-bodys.8457/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-bragged-about-in-this-big-block-chevy.15931/

 

[grumpyvette]

my brother-in-law purchased a 4 speed, 454 1974 corvette from out of state, off EBAY, now the pictures were not all that clear (ON PURPOSE, I,M SURE) and when he got the car it needed a great deal of work, its was basically a multi colored shell, with no interior, that barely ran, the clutch and dash and seats and interior were all shot, the u-joints and several suspension components, exhaust etc. needed to be replaced, there was body work, new paint and a bunch of replacement parts required. but as you can see a basic basket case is rebuild-able if you have the time and skills, my brother in laws been forced to learn because, while I will help, point out what needs to be done and show him where to get the parts and help with technical issues I will not do the work for him because I want him to LEARN whats required and HOW its done

heres threads with bits of the story

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=6966&hilit=corvette+1974+paint

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7831&p=27049&hilit=dougs#p27049

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com...7075&p=23525&hilit=corvette+1974+paint#p23525

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=6216

Ive worked on hundreds of body repairs and minor body mods on standard cars like chevelles and camaros , GTO, lemans, and road runner's cudas etc.
rust damage is a huge P.I.T.A.

a plazma cutter and a mig or tig welder and a donor car or at least the matching panels would be a huge help.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...don-t-you-own-a-spot-welder.11875/#post-70397

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-don-t-freak-out-mid-process.9302/#post-33608

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/welding-auto-sheet-metal.4604/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/access-to-weld-car-body.12826/#post-66325

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/lower-cost-plazma-cutters.12739/#post-65576

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ol-for-auto-body-panel-work.12571/#post-64082

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/welding-in-new-floor-pan.10735/#post-46871

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-choice-and-living-with-your-decisions.15314/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...o-buy-a-mig-for-sheet-metal.10601/#post-45510

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/welding-sheet-metal-repairs.4232/#post-11182


one of the few advantages working on corvettes have
is theres no potential for rust on body panels
either smc or fiberglass may have several other problems,
but rust fortunately is not the major issue.

The Corvette began production in 1953. The body panels are made from fiberglass and resin using two basic methods and continuously improved over the years. These methods are referred to as "press molded panels" and "sheet molded composites" or SMC.



Press Molded Panels
Press molded panels were produced from 1953 through the 1972 model year. The fiberglass and resin were hand laid or sometimes sprayed into molds. These molds were then heated and placed under very high pressure. This process resulted in panels having a uniform thickness and finish.

SMC
SMC panels were produced from 1973 to the C6 model. SMC panels were created from heated high pressure molds that compress a mixture of fiberglass, resin and catalyst. This new process created panels that were much smoother than press molded panels, provide tighter tolerances and a superior finish.


Carbon Fiber
Carbon fiber was used on some C6 ZR1 panels. The hood, front spoiler and roof panels were all made using carbon fiber composites. Carbon fiber panels were significantly stronger and lighter than SMC or press molded fiberglass panels. Carbon fiber had a greater tensile and compressive strength than fiberglass at a lower density resulting in stronger panels at lower weights.

 

[chromebumpers]

I picked up my 1971 in St.Charles MO 4 years ago. The local rental company isn't open on the weekends so you can rent late on Friday 3 to 5 PM and return the item on Monday morning for a one day rate. In this case the HD trailer is just $76. I brought cash for $14,500. I counted out the mostly $100 bills with about $3000 in 50s. On this guy's work bench in his garage he spread out the money. He must have tried to count the 14.5K correctly no less than 6 times with a different amount each time. I thought he was just a dumb-ass but in retrospect I believe he was so nervous he couldn't count straight. I didn't do my usual detailed inpection (I seem to do much better for other people than for myself) I traveled one way without rest and it took my brain power away. Later I discovered the long list of problems that were concealed, and rigged. It is a true numbes matching car and the bones are good, but I shouldn't have paid that much. Lesson learned: too excited to count the money - grab it back and walk away!

 

[grumpyvette]

Ive done that several times (purchased an out of state half finished project) and the results varied a great deal, occasionally youll find some guy whos in financial trouble through loss of a job, forced to move or a divorce, that lost interest in a project and will unload it for pennies on a dollar to recoup some of his investment, but more often, I find the cars are not worth what the guys asking and local buyers won,t touch it, a few really carefully angled pictures that don,t point out the flaws as much as the good points makes a car far easier to unload on-line as there rarely a close personal inspection done before the title and money exchange owners.
thats hardly a unique story, I don,t know many people that have purchased an out of state or even an instate project car that was not truly local, giving them the time to carefully inspect the car before the purchase and taking possession, that had zero issues once it got inspected closely, once you got it back home, that was the case in spades for my brother-in-lays 1974 corvette purchase, he never even saw anything but pictures of the car
(that in my opinion went out of the way to avoid showing the cars true condition)
before he had it shipped to his home plus the seller swore he included several parts that never showed up that the seller swears were packed inside the car when it was shipped.

its been my experience that if you do a good bit of net working among friends, and contacts at machine shops and hot rod clubs, you occasionally find guys who get fed up with or abandon, project cars, or guys who are getting divorced, guys who are forced to move out of state by sudden changes in their jobs etc. and if you just happen to have some cash and a working car trailer at times you can get some amazing deals on half finished project cars.
I know one guy who purchased a COBRA kit car,kit the original owner had spent nearly $30K on, plus a salvage yard supplied 460 ford engine that needed to be rebuilt, parts that had sat basically untouched in boxes in his garage for over a year, for $22K .....he basically grabbed a $30K plus package including a rolling chassis, and body,for $18K for the body and frame kit and about $4K of engine parts plus a salvage yard engine , that came up for sale at a steep discount due to a pending divorce.
deals like that are not UN-common , but having nearly $20k and a working car trailer handy, to easily transport the components when the deal comes up is rather rare!

Ive purchased several spare engines, a few years ago,from a guy had them in storage for $300 each when a guy lost his job, I paid him, what he asked and felt sorry I could not afford more, to help him out at the time as I know he had more invested. as always the key is both a way to transport heavy hard to move parts and available cash to spend and having both available when a deal is offered is rather rare!

Ive seen lots of older cars that looked fairly decent or easily repairable, that looked like a bargain!

UNTIL YOU PUT THEM UP ON A AUTO LIFT FOR A CLOSE VISUAL INSPECTION FROM THE UNDERSIDE

I found this picture posted on the internet of a clean 1964 GTO,It was a virtual clone of a car my friend bought of ebay a few years ago,
It ,reminded me, of the absolute need to closely inspect a car up on a lift,
before purchase, it instantly reminded me of a "screaming GREAT deal "
one of my friends purchased from EBAY, on an out of state muscle car ,the project car looked fantastic, on the internet,and it still looked good as it was delivered rolling off the car carrier , well, untill we put it up on a lift for a close visual inspection, that showed it had the original 389 engine replaced with a earlier 370 from a 1960 pontiac, the pontiac engine, had few parts that interchanged, the frame needed to be replaced and while most of the body panels were in fairly decent condition, the cars trunk and floor pans and lower 1/4 panels had obviously be replaced , so the deal value dropped from
FANTASTICALLY CHEAP PRICE ,($3900)
to about what it was really worth!,
he didn,t get totally screwed on the deal, but he sure had several months work and about $12K more into the car once it was restored than he thought it would cost originally
A bit of related info

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25&p=33&hilit=trailer#p33

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=649&p=879&hilit=trailer#p879

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=147&p=181&hilit=trailer#p181

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=340&p=416&hilit=trailer#p416

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25&p=2694&hilit=trailer#p2694

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=10337&p=42394#p42394

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=845&p=1281&hilit=trailer#p1281

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=10281

 

[grumpyvette]

importing a corvette to Canada
Here are a few links that may help. Good luck.

http://customsquote.com/step-1/step-1-importing-a-vehicle/

http://www.riv.ca/importingavehicle.aspx

http://www.ehow.com/about_5523475_canadas-car-import-laws.html

any time you've purchased a new(too you) used muscle car,
you should start by carefully inspecting a car,s basic systems like brakes, cooling ,suspension, alignment, tires , power steering, hoses,belts, after all you'll generally have little or no idea how the cars been maintained, that's easily 45 plus years old in most cases,
its will generally save you some potential problems if you take the time and effort,
if you change out the fluids,radiators can and frequently are filled with either plain water,
( which caused corrosion, or old anti-freeze that can cause particulates to form and clog the radiator interior tubes)
Id especially change the oil, and filter, and slap a big magnet on the base of the oil filter

clip on a decent magnet to the base of a long oil filter helps it trap metalic trash more effectively, and while $29 may sound high its good extra insurance that potentially reduces the chances of metalic debis from getting to the bearings and valve train.
consider the cost of bearing replacement?

http://www.magnet4sale.com/n42-3od-x-1id-x-1-2-neodymium-rare-earth-ring-magnet/

change the oil, and filter, and slap a big magnet on the base of the oil filter
http://www.magnet4sale.com/n42-3od-x-1id-x-1-2-neodymium-rare-earth-ring-magnet/

and a couple high heat tolerant magnets,
near the oil drain back cylinder head drains in the rear of each head , and its smart too change the brake fluid
(which has a nasty habit in older muscle cars of absorbing and holding moisture in suspension.)

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...himmer-in-the-oil-catch-pan.11397/#post-52207

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/magnets.120/#post-49771

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-with-fuel-in-the-lines-tank.4111/#post-72082

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-filters-related-info.2080/#post-54352

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/c3-no-brake-pressure.10261/#post-41225

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/brake-fluid-info.1848/#post-16080

 

[grumpyvette]

just a bit of advice,
I just had a conversation with one of my friends who lives in Florida., after he went on a three day long trip ,to get a project car.
This is a good example of where you can spend $50-$100 , in preparing for a trip, or find you spent $250-$300 more than you thought you might need to during a trip out of state to tow a car on your car transport trailer.
he was so excited about going to get a project car he found for sale at a very good price that he hooked up the truck to his car trailer that had been sitting un-used, for at least two years.
(he got a great deal from an out of state friend, on a car he had seen and driven several months previously,while on vacation in Tenn. that was in fairly good condition except for a recently failed transmission, that the previous owner was selling because he had no desire to take the time with or cover the cost of the repairs.)
Before he went on the trip, he quickly got a new up to date license renewal sticker, before making the trip,
but failed to check the condition of his car trailer bearings,
repack and re-grease his trailer bearings,
verify his trailer lights worked,
and verify his trailer brakes worked,
and failed too inspect the condition and air pressure and balance on the trailer tires ,
before starting out on an out of state trip to go get a project car, he found for sale out of state.
as a result he got pulled over out of state, and got a warning ticket , with a small mail in fine,
about the non- functional trailer lights, not functioning, and was forced too spent an extra 7 hours looking for and replacing a trailer bearing ,(he had failed to carry a spare hub or set of bearings and a grease gun to re-grease the hubs before loading the car he had come to get, and had to replace one tire and actually should have replaced a second tire that showed excessive wear due to significantly lower than ideal tire air pressure, due to the delays at the tire shop and stopping to replace the bearings in a worn hub, he spent an extra day and paid for a second night in a motel, plus the cost of parts, his lack of pre-checking the trailer easily cost him a minimum of an extra $130-$140 that could have likely been avoided.

having bearing buddy grease caps and a grease gun to insure theres fresh grease in the hubs on any car trailer and carrying at least one good spare trailer tire, several cans of fix-a-flat an air pump a floor jack and a couple jack stands makes a great deal of sense

if you don,t read links its sure to cost you a good deal of extra time and money
http://m.wikihow.com/Calculate-Diminished-Value

http://www.vincheckpro.com/vin-go?s...MI_fHiyZuY1QIVlLrACh1sVAkSEAAYASAAEgKKW_D_BwE

related info
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=845&p=9652&hilit=bearing+buddy#p9652

http://enthusiast.yearone.com/vehicle-i ... -decoding/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...r-do-your-research-carefully.8312/#post-28893

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/buying-out-of-state.11313/#post-51473

http://www.racingjunk.com/category

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=3150&p=8410&hilit=bearing+buddy#p8410

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25&p=4223&hilit=bearing+buddy#p4223

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4863&p=13361&hilit=trailer+wiring#p13361

 

[grumpyvette]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpQlD-FLZMU#t=287

rather interesting ROAD KILL VIDEO

 

[grumpyvette]

I don,t think its ever been a secret that both my brother-in-law and I have always liked two seat sports cars like corvettes and COBRAS ,and an occasional t-bucket, well, my brother-in-law has a good deal more cash to spend on hobbies than I can afford too, and he recently found a COBRA that he LUSTED after on sale in some car web site, so he drove to Missouri to buy it and drive it back, I have yet to see it in person as hes still on the way back with it, but from the pictures it looks nice.
not my choice of engines as its currently a stock EFI mustang SBF 302 that even he admits lacks impressive power, but that can rather obviously be upgraded or changed out for something with noticeably more power once he decides to either rebuild, super charge or replace it with something like a 557 big block ford stroker or a dozen other potential options.
now I know that there are a few SBF based engine builds, especially those with a centrifugal super charger added that will potentially produce north of 450-500 hp which is in my opinion a minimum threshold in that car tho allow you to half scare yourself at times which is of course a minimum requirement.
if it was my car the 557 BIG BLOCK FORD stroker would be the route Id take, but I think hes more interested in the super charger option so if you have any links or experience please post.


http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/cat ... CH+SYSTEMS

http://bandbroadster.com/roadster.htm

http://www.jegs.com/i/Paxton/769/1001824P/10002/-1
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/cat ... CH+SYSTEMS

or

http://www.coasthigh.com/product-p/14792-sf-f557-sb.htm

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/art ... /A-P1.html
CERTAINLY a long over due and necessary upgrade
if your un-aware OEM production 385 engine series BBF heads (429-460) suck, but there are several alternatives

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=4695

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/ford-rac ... h-new-z460

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1089&p=3026&hilit=ford+block#p3026

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=415&p=509&hilit=ford+block#p509

 

[philly]

thats a nice cobra, my buddy has had one for years that currently sports a 352 inch small block (8.2 deck) and two 70mm turbos that cranks out well over 1000/1000 at the tire... he uses the stock 302 wiring harness and computer with the anderson piggy back tuner.other than the built bottom end, it has highy modified trick flow twisted wedges and an equally worked over intake. i think even with the weight of the turbos the car probably still weighs less than it would with a big block, and it certainly idles nicer and drives much more tamely in vacuum than it would with a 557 incher making similar power (even if it made 650 and had 500hp worth of nitrous)

as far as the scared shitless factor, at full boost in fourth gear the light poles click by like the stripes on the road when you speed in any other car.

also you must wear the supplied racing harness properly or the g forces will pick you up out of the seat and try to eject you out the non existant roof. (no shit, i wish to all that is holy i was making this shit up)

to be honest if you want 500 hp you could better spend your money building a relatively cheap 351 on the side...rather than deal with the cost and inherent bullshit that comes with adding a supercharger to anything... any 351 naturally aspirated with 10.5:1 compression or higher theres about 100 head/cam/intake combinations thatll get you the number with minimal custom work. all in (including forged pistons and some trick machine work rebalancing the rotator) look at 7500 bucks on the high end depending on the heads you choose.

or try to disprove john kaases claim that his p-38 heads with a mild solid roller cranked out 500bhp on a 302 at 7500rpm. a guy named jon or jim at comp does all of kaase's cams so if you get the kaase canted valve stuff you need to call comp and get a cam thats been proven to work with that technology, as most people dont have enough experience to get you right with those flattened angles and cants.

the trick to those cars is making them hook, depending on the rear end options chosen (the 1000hp car has a watts link and it sticks like glue) they can be tricky to make traction but once you get the sucker dialed in, enjoy!

grumpy im gonna be honest, you got atleast 5 or 6 inches on me in height i dont know how comfortable youre gonna be in that thing if you ever get a ride. it aint no corvette..

let me ask you, that intake manifold came out of a 94-95 mustang gt, did the whole motor come from that car? because 89-91 mustangs already had forged slugs from the factory but mid 92 and later came with hyper eutectic pistons... also whatever heads you get, youre leaving alot of horsepower on the table if you dont correct the doglegs in the intake manifolds for those motors... a cursory internet search will explain what im talking about in detail, but its basically adding material to radius a weird turn (like you would in a head port... only sideways) in a few cylinders intake tracts that was obviously designed by a drunk and not an engineer. the#1 and #5 cylinders always seem to have the most obvious regardless of which intake you buy (unless of course, tunnel ram)

 

[grumpyvette]

thanks for the info and if you can think of anything else please post it!
Ive built several FE (390-428)and 385 series fords (429-514) but the last ford SB was a 289 25 plus years ago

 

[philly]

thanks for the info and if you can think of anything else please post it!
Ive built several FE (390-428)and 385 series fords (429-514) but the last ford SB was a 289 25 plus years ago

i cut my teeth on small block fords, what do you want to know? heres some links...

http://www.alexsparts.com/

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/co ... heads.html

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/pr ... rives.html

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/ite ... ent-System

lots of people have used these pistons with great success, if you run twisted wedge or other canted valve heads these guys got you covered and theyre affordable... http://www.dssracing.com/

http://www.accufabracing.com/

thermal barriers: http://www.calicocoatings.com/coating-d ... c-coating/

495hp 331" sbf... read the photo captions very carefully http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccr ... lock-ford/

http://www.stangtv.com/project-cars/pro ... ort-block/

http://www.stangtv.com/project-cars/pro ... ong-block/

 

[grumpyvette]

THANK YOU! I,m reading thru all the links carefully.

 

[philly]

sorry i left the images so big but i figured guys that dont have 40" monitors (everyone but grumpy) would need to actually be able to read the text.

 

[philly]

if you're going to use a stock intake, i recommend upgrading to and modifying a gt40 style intake manifold, either the gt40 tubular, the cobra, or the explorer (the explorer is the most plentiful of them all). see the above comparison on a mild 302 setup and youll notice theres almost no difference between them as far as power production.


the real problem with fords (and every american v8 produced in high volumes) is the heads... the heads really dont flow shit. i mean any factory ford 289,302,351 head really REALLY flows garbage. again the budget consciious no brainer choice is the gt40 head. alexparts link above has everything you need as var as a fresh valvetrain and theres alot of online tutorials on carving them up for the budget minded and where to find the most flow and velocity for your time. some time doing some math will do you well in selecting a cam thats better than those alphabet cams but if you do use a b,e,f,x, or z cam from ford racing (or any single pattern cam) the hot ticket is to use a larger ratio roller rocker on the exhaust to aid the piss poor exhaust port in puking out those gases. a 1.5 inch primary may seem small but i wouldnt use larger than a 1 and 5/8 on even a ported gt40 head 302 or youre going to lose the low end that makes the motors work.... the ultimate for factory heads and intake if youre spinning over 5500-5800 would probably be the heddman 1 and 1/2 to 1 and 5/8 stepped tube hedder but its made to fit fox bodies and i dont think itll fit the cobra kit car.

david vizard has a good mod for those intakes where he put a thin metal plate under them to block oil splash onto the runners and fills the void with that great stuff spray foan from home depot to keep the intake temps lower.... also hogs out the space between the numbers 1 and 5 runners in relation to the water neck to try to not have them as a heat sink for the coolant passage. (he does alot of other crazy shit like thermal coatings and extrude honing the upper intake but i dont know what the budget is like)

uh oh... i think we're on the verge of opening a ford subforum on grumpys website! :lol:

 

[Indycars]

uh oh... i think we're on the verge of opening a ford subforum on grumpys website! :lol:

Oh No !!!! .... what's this world coming to???

 

[philly]

hey man, i love muscle cars, my first car was a foxbody mustang and id love to own another one someday. then again i think if i sell my vette it would be to get a stick shift vette... maybe a 98-02 trans am WS6...

as an addendum to the rocker arm comment earlier, the mod is so ubiquitous you can buy a set of 16 rocker arms from scorpion that are already packaged as 8 1.6 and 8 1.72 roller rockers.

 

[Strictly Attitude]

hey man, i love muscle cars, my first car was a foxbody mustang and id love to own another one someday. then again i think if i sell my vette it would be to get a stick shift vette... maybe a 98-02 trans am WS6...

as an addendum to the rocker arm comment earlier, the mod is so ubiquitous you can buy a set of 16 rocker arms from scorpion that are already packaged as 8 1.6 and 8 1.72 roller rockers.

I love Trans ams all but the knight rider style ones even though my friend had a GTA of knight rider style that was a fun car. It was on of the first factory roller cam cars.