ever try to discuss fireams and crime with someone unwilling to face facts?

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
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I rarely bother discussing anything with some of the obvious liberals I talk too,
my son has a neighbor that thinks H-CLINTONS PLAN FOR ELIMINATING US FIREARM OWNERSHIP IS A GOOD IDEA!
as its useless to point out facts for discussion to someone who has an agenda,
to push, and too them facts just get in the way of the agenda,
but when they try to cherry pick data or outright lie it makes me a bit crazy
theres no doubt that the USA has far too much crime and violence
but too have this clueless moron state that
"without access to firearms, here in the U.S.A. we would have virtually no crime"
or that
"the USA is the most violent place on earth"
or its
"ALL you damn red-necks with guns causing the problem!"
is so stupid its laughable ,
to the point it was insane so if youve ever wondered where we in the USA , ARE,heres a few facts to read about guns and crime


firearm ownership is not now nor has it ever been the problem,
if you want to reduce crime, you make it far less attractive to criminals,
its always been the lack of significant and rapid, assured consequences for those dealing in drugs, committing rape, robbery and murder, that reduce crime, that allows crime to flourish! (how many rapes, drive bye shootings or home invasion robberies, or guys dealing in drug smuggling, do you think you would see if committing one of those crimes resulted in a mandatory death penalty,by firing squad, shown on the news every night, inside of 2 days of being convicted ?)
not saying thats the exact route to take but making crime far less attractive to criminals has a result in lower crime!

example
china had an illegal drug problem they dealt with with brutal efficiency
get caught with drugs you get prison or executed dependent on the amount
get caught twice your almost sure to be shot, as a result this is not a big problem
now I,m not advocating the identical approach just pointing out that when the criminal mind sees the consequences far out weight the potential for ill gotten short term gains, crime drops to negligible levels

here in Florida we have a stand your ground law,
and theres hundreds of thousands of concealed carry license holders
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...concealed-carry-permits-up-violent-crime-down

The study by the Crime Prevention Research Center found that
11.1 million Americans now have permits to carry concealed weapons,
up from 4.5 million in 2007.
The 146 percent increase has come even as,
both murder and violent crime rates have dropped by 22 percent.


http://www.whiteoutpress.com/articles/q32013/america-s-elusive-crime-statistics-by-race/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

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I don't know of any Luberals hanging out here on your site Grumpy.
 



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but that works against the democrat/media agendas so they ignore facts
Explain why the Ft Hood Terrorist, The Boston Bombers Terrorists, and THe San Bernardino Terrorist , All were investigated by the FBI and then let go and nothing more was ever done, All were investigated several times yet let free to walk the streets and commit the Atrocities that they did.
THese Terrorists all had one thing in common they all happened under The Obama Administration who has changed the narrative and pointed the Agenda from protecting American's to Protecting Muslim Terrorists,
Why was the FT Hood Massacre labeled workplace violence, why was the San Bernardino Massacre labeled work place violence, and the Boston Bombing swept under the Carpet, Let's see Boston used Pressure cookers doesn't fit the Narrative that guns are dangerous and need to be removed, In the rest of the Muslim Terrorists, attacks the gun was made front and center of the Terrorist Attack not the Common thread that all were committed by Muslim Extremists but the Guns that were used, Why is that Why is it that after they purchased the guns they did not show backup on the FBI Radar.
FACTS DON'T MATTER TO THESE DEMOCRAT LIBERALS,
IF facts don't support their Agenda then they don't exist, or are totally ignored or lied about
remember what STALIN stated, A LIE TOLD OFTEN ENOUGH BECOMES THE TRUTH
(WELL AT LEAST TO LIBERAL DEMOCRATS)
 
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ON the way home today on the radio news,
Not one word about Democrats wanting to deny people their civil rights to due process.....they want anyone that looks suspicious to anyone else
to be put on a national list prohibiting gun ownership.
I can see its a damn small step in democrat thinking to say anyone who owns a gun is obviously suspect! and if your an NRA member your OBVIOUSLY a TERRORIST
Republicans put up two bills for vote today that would require a Judge to sign off on any list denying and legal purchases of firearms from suspected nut jobs....
Not one word about Democrats not voting for a bill that would stop suspected terrorist from buying machine guns.
the NRA has proposed several bills to mandate mentally incompetent people be bared from gun ownership

https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...ntrol-in-the-wake-of-orlando-terrorist-attack
 
Off Topic....There is a Dodge Hellcat Pop Up Ad On Digital Corvette .
 


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115 Shot This Week In Chicago As 'Gun-Free-Zone'-City Continues Death Spiral
115 Shot This Week In Chicago As 'Gun-Free-Zone'-City Continues Death Spiral

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by Tyler Durden | Jul 10, 2016 2:30 PM

The saga continues in Chicago as violence across the US ticks upward following the Dallas police attack.

Having 115 people shot last week is incredible in lieu of what we reported earlier this year when 120 people in Chicago inside a 10 day span:

Quote:
"following the seven people shot to death and 30 more wounded during the latest weekend, the total number of shootings in the windy city has risen to 120 in just over a week into the new year, according to police."
As if that isn't enough, recall that May was the worst month since 1995 for Chicago in terms of homicides:

Quote:
Sadly, the pace of the shootings did hold, and Memorial Day weekend saw 6 people killed and another 63 wounded in a weekend that topped off the deadliest May in Chicago in 21 years according to the Chicago Tribune. Tragically, the month's 66th and final homicide victim was just a 15 year old boy named Fabien Lavinder. The 66 homicides represented the worst May since 1995 when 75 people were killed.
Remember also that over 40 people were shot during Memorial Day weekend in Chicago also.

This whole mess will likely to get worse following the attacks that have taken place between blacks and police over the weekend. In Chicago, it's a pressure cooker that keeps building. Something is going to cause chaos to rupture and spill throughout the city in ways far worse what we've witnessed in 2016 if the country keeps speeding toward maximum emotional outrage. It is high likely that this kind of long-lasting, deeply rooted rage will not go away if guns are banned.

Thumbing through the stats on HeyJackAss.com landed us on the following graphics. When it comes to victims in Chicago, nearly 80% are black. As for arresting the culprits, nearly 80% are never found.

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Race of Assailant And Victim:
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Percent of Police Shooting Resulting In Death or Injury:
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Compiled YTD Stats for Chicago:
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All of which is quite a feat for a city which ranks as one of the most regulated cities in the nation for gun control.

Quote:
Concealed carry is almost nonexistent. To purchase a gun or ammunition requires a Firearm Owners Identification card in the entire state of Illinois, and additionally, a Chicago Firearm Permit – which is required to possess a firearm in Chicago.

Not only are the people heavily regulated in Chicago, but guns are also heavily regulated. Any long gun with a grip protruding from the stock or a firearm with a telescoping stock is prohibited and classified as an “assault weapon.”

Magazines are limited to a 12-round capacity.

Even a spring-powered pellet gun with a muzzle velocity of 700 feet-per-second is classified as a “firearm,” although it does not use gun powder, the component that puts the “fire” in “firearm.”

A stun-gun — a non-lethal device with no projectile — is considered a deadly weapon and cannot be carried for self-defense.

Chicago, for all intents and purposes, is a “gun-free zone.”

But all the state and city regulations associated with firearms in Chicago have failed to produce a safe city, and these are the policies that President Obama and Secretary Clinton wish to extend to the rest of the country.

While saying that “criminals go out-of-state to places where it is easier to obtain guns” is often used to push gun control, it illustrates that criminals ignore gun laws in every state and that onerous access to Second Amendment rights on law abiding citizens doesn’t stop crime.

Clinton’s campaign platform includes a call for federal legislation mandating background checks on all private firearms transfers and sales. Clinton also wants to repeal the “Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.” That law protects firearm manufacturers from lawsuits for negligent use of firearms.

President Obama, through is spokesman Josh Earnest, has announced, “The president has frequently pushed his team to consider a range of executive actions that could more effectively keep guns out of the hands of criminals and others who shouldn’t have access to them. That’s something that is ongoing here.”

Per the president’s policy, Chicago has taken every action “that could more effectively keep guns out of the hands of criminals and others who shouldn’t have access to them.
When emotions are this elevated, gun control will not stop the violence. The anger is rooted deep inside of how America is structured. As we posted earlier in "America Is Broken" - The Week Anger Boiled Over"

Quote:
Whatever the merits of particular historic parallels, however, there is little doubt that the nation is in uncommonly volatile shape. While vexing questions of race and the criminal justice system are a big part of that, it also involves other issues, from economic insecurity to disenchantment with the political system.
Guns and their role lately are merely a reflection of the immediate frustration that has been slowly coming to a boil in the US. Going after the guns won't stop the bombers or knifers, or people that drive through crowds with cars. The issue is not guns, it is civilians and government living under one roof with complete distrust for each other. Although, it would be nice to stop statistics like these from originating in Chicago or any other American state for that matter.

Removing guns may enable us to focus on the more important things however...
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Just a thought.....Do the anti gun politicians, media, et al, realize that the Second Amendment was created to possibly protect the First Amendment, as well as the Constitution itself? Also, how important it was to be #2. Just saying............
 
grandpa needs to carry a GLOCK 40 caliber,
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and that would much more likely result in far less, time wasted watching, the socialite, scum running and ducking , as they exit the crime scene, and a good deal more bleeding and dying (which they deserve) which in the long term might reduce crime in that area far more than having the scum survive to return.
 
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