finding a machine shop

Discussion in 'Tools, Procedures, and Testing trouble shooting' started by grumpyvette, Oct 2, 2008.

  1. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    HOW to find a decent machine shop
    THATS SIMPLE, IN CONCEPT (but can be a P.I.T.A. in some locals)
    GO TO THE LOCAL DRAG STRIP with a PAD and pen,ask several obviously experienced race car owners,about the machine shops they avoid and those they recommend
    I don,t know about all areas but here in south/central Florida we have access to all the listed types of metal supply,dealers, welding equipment supply and machine shops, within 45 min-1 hour drive Id need, but of course you'll find there's several options in each category of who you want to deal with and the skill levels and parts selection and prices all vary a great deal between shops.
    the best route is to take the time and effort to meet and talk to several dozen experienced racers at a local shop,the problem is that theres always a few local incompetent and/or unskilled machine shops and over priced scam artists in most areas.it helps a great deal if you take the time and effort to find a trust worthy and reasonably priced local machine shop , and trust me when I say this is critical, and yes, the machinist will seem to point out endless things that should be done to increase durability, or just allow proper component function,and a good machinist will try to guide you in component selection to help avoid mis-matched parts and low quality parts being used, yes quality parts and machine work, ALWAYS COST more than you may expect them too!
    the quality of precision machine work your machine shop does will have a huge effect on the long term durability and power potential of your engine.
    Obviously you'll want to avoid ,places that either don,t do quality work or don,t do the work at all, or do it very badly..or fail to deliver work on the expected completion dates, and you won,t know which shops to trust without a bit of research with the faster local racers
    [​IMG]
    it is always helps to post your location,when posting questions, at least the city & state your located in because theres a good chance an experienced hobbyist or mechanic on this site may be reading this, located local to you, who is willing to help either for free or at low cost! or at least post advice and places to get parts locally
    ask every guy with a car running 11-12 seconds or faster
    (these guys will generally be rather familiar with local machine shops)
    ASK these questions and in this order,
    (1)WHO WOULD YOU AVOID IN A MACHINE SHOP
    (2)WHO WOULD YOU SUGGEST IN A MACHINE SHOP
    (3) where can you purchase metal and welding supplies


    ITS well worth the effort for you too, take the time to visit the local race tracks with a pen,pad and paper and ask a few dozen of the guys racing the 11 second and faster cars about which machine shops can be trusted to do quality work at a fair price and deliver on time! ask enough people to get a minimum of 12-15 separate suggestions, trust me a pattern will emerge in the answers with a minimum of 12-15 answers
    There is local shop where I am that has had to change names 4 times and at least on paper owners three times in the last 15 years because they specialize in shoddy work and charging for work thats either not done or very poorly done. no one I know would trust them to gap a spark plug yet they still get unsuspecting customers because they are located near several auto parts stores. A good rule to follow is go where the faster racers go when they need work done because they are usually knowledgeable, and to keep their business, the machine-shop must be experienced and reasonably well equipped and stay busy enough because of their reputation.
    take notes, and compare all your answers you'll see a pattern emerge after 8-10 guys (MINIMUM) answer your questions, and don,t bother talking to any car with a huge machine shop stickers on the doors ,as the obvious sponsor, because you know who they will recommend, they want someone else paying for their parts besides the cars owner, what you want to do is talk to the regular guys running the faster self financed cars.
    theres also the machine shop I generally deal with, they have had the same owners and machinists for at least the last 20 years or so , and constantly have work stacked up, if you don,t get a specific date promised , IN WRITING ON YOUR RECEIPT, and DON,T PAY MORE THAN 1/3 up front, I can assure you it will take them a bit longer than you expect, but at least the works done correctly

    machine shop services are priced very differently throughout the country. Your best bet is to talk to people in your area to find out which shops have the best reputations, for doing quality work at a fair price. Then pick two or three shops that are reasonable close (within an hours drive) that have good recommendations and go visit them for a brief question and answer session to get a feel for the shop . After talking to the machinist for a few minutes, and getting a basic price list and asking what type of major machinery they have you will have a good idea of who you want to send your work to, who can do a good job and whos full of BULLSSST. Remember though, good machinists are hard to find, and youll rarely find a good machinist working in a small shop at the rear of an auto parts store, look for real automotive machine shops with an established track record and reputation to uphold .


    READ THE DARN LINKS AND SUB LINKS

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-52906

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-you-need-tools-and-skills.11379/#post-52068

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-calculators-and-basic-math.10705/#post-46737

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-heads-up-on-buying-used-engine-blocks.14305/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/machine-shop-sequencing.4460/#post-11720

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51823

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...embling-an-engine-correctly.10363/#post-43806

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...k-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/#post-38321

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...r-basic-performance-concepts.9731/#post-36488

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...f-how-not-too-deal-with-a-machine-shop.14454/

    http://www.chevydiy.com/big-block-chevrolet-engine-step-step-rebuid-machine-shop-guide/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ty-thats-key-in-building-a-good-engine.11682/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-state-muscle-or-project-car.4318/#post-18620

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ilding-a-dream-or-wasting-cash.775/#post-8401

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...block-cylinder-wall-thickness.976/#post-22976

    keep in mind your not looking for the guys that will make your car FAST as much as your looking for who can be trusted NOT to screw up your parts, and guys in the machine shop who can both follow instructions on repairs, and make valid suggestions and mods you’ve selected to do ,and those machine shops where the machinist will take the time and effort to advise you and do the job correctly and you also need to know who is doing sub-standard work, and should be avoided, that’s why both questions and in that order
    remember to ask
    (1)WHO WOULD YOU AVOID IN A MACHINE SHOP
    (2)WHO WOULD YOU SUGGEST IN A MACHINE SHOP
    take notes, and get at least 8-10 recommendations on several different nites at the track, from guys with the 11-10 second cars


    and remember many guys who have slower cars than the 11 second bracket generally are using mostly bolt on and go parts with little use for a quality machine shops skills, but once you get into the more extensive mods machine work becomes critical to your success
    that EXACTLY why I do all the work possible on my cars and engines....WHY I ve collected thousands of dollars in tools and done years of research...
    I got soooooooo... tired and pissed off from dealing with scammers, thieves and morons who were in business too collect money from the CLUELESS masses of guys that wont or don't take the time and effort to find out what actually needs to be done and exactly how its supposed to be accomplished
    and finding out that a huge percentage of the mechanics/garages and machine shops were at least partly staffed with guys who knew less and cared FAR less about doing the job correctly than I could ever comprehend, If your going to BE in business you might THINK you'll want to build a good reputation and look for repeat business, but all to frequently they are in it for a quick buck and screw the results or customers

    Ive seen machine shops throw ALUMINUM cylinder heads in a CAUSTIC SODA bath to clean them, Ive seen MORONS try too charge me too torque plate hone a block, when they didn't even know what a TORQUE PLATE WAS or OWN ANY that fit that family of engines, Ive seen guys try to beat piston pins out of rods, guys who think a valve job is simply slapping grinding compound on a valve and using a drill to lap the valve into the seat, guys that charge for degreeing in a cam who don't own a degree wheel or a dial indicator and think aligning dots on the cam drive is degreeing in a cam,.....I could go further but you get the IDEA, LEARN and DO as much as you can yourself, collect the tools and manuals you need, and join a few clubs and find the knowledgeable few guys that do their own work rather than pay exorbitant prices to shops and take their chances... youll be way ahead! and when FORCED to deal with machine shops, you need to write a detailed set of instructions listing exactly whats to be done, on each component and the prices and dates the works expected to be completed on, and do the required research to find the reliable machine shops in your area,BEFORE dealing with any of them

    http://www.harborfreight.com/36-piece-1 ... 35121.html

    [​IMG]

    http://www.harborfreight.com/micro-engraver-98227.html
    [​IMG]

    http://www.harborfreight.com/electric-e ... 46099.html

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=10363

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11026&p=48766#p48766

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-dated-signed-and-pictures.4786/#post-12990


    some parts will need to be engraved
    [​IMG]

    before dropping any component off at a machine shop you take DETAILED CLEAR PICTURES from several angles, date those photos and have SEVERAL copy's made,...make sure you list parts supplied, in detail with pictures, of those parts, make a detailed list ALL work to be done and HAVE FIRM expected due dates and prices for work, LISTED on a signed receipt and have the machine shop sign the work order listing of all major parts, show him you have the spare pictures, have a list of parts thats detailed enough that casting numbers and vin numbers are listed ,try to get a picture of the machine shop guy you speak to also, and stamp blocks on the oil pan rail,cranks on the flywheel flange stamp heads lightly on the ends all with your ph# or other ID, that shows in the pictures, obviously NOT on precision machined surfaces in most cases.
    youve got to accept the fact that mistakes get made, parts get screwed up, lost, stolen or swapped ,some people are crooks, etc. if you don,t have positive dated photographic proof of what you dropped off, the work agreed to the dates promised and a way to identify your parts from similar defective parts they might be swapped out for, your screwed if your forced to go to court to seek compensation
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2018
  2. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    before you go dropping off parts and run up a bill at any machine shop....
    WHERE AND WHO did you check with?(that the shop does good work)
    always check at the local tracks and take notes from at least 5 independent sources and limit that to guys with similar cars that are running at least low 12s, up to that approximate speed/et bolt on parts easily suffice, in most cars and the skill of the machinists is not that critical.
    ok first step for future work,always get detailed proposals stating what work is to be done, what parts are to be used, who will supply and install the parts and all the costs of all materials and labor spelled out in detail along with where the parts are to be purchased and that all used components will be returned to the owner with a completion date, clearly stated. take lots of before and after pictures of the car, engine and components and demand a detailed work sheet.

    this is one of the best investments you can make, watch this video it explains a good deal

    http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html

    next NEVER drop parts or a car off with some lame B.S. like OK he will call when its done!!
    and verify the works BEEN DONE!
    marking components like heads ,cranks intakes with a small die stamp helps

    http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=800

    the last 4 digits of your ss# on parts helps along with clear photos


    OK, think it thru your about to speed hundreds if not thousands of dollars do you even know that new pistons you paid for WERE installed and was the assembly rebalanced?, do you have anything proving that he didn,t just install the new cam?, if you paid for a line hone, and boring the block, or a dozen other machine shop processes how do you know they were even done!, you sure won,t be the first guy to pay for work that was never done or done half assed, so know what your looking at, how parts are supposed to look and measure before and after they are worked on.
    Ive seen guys charged for torque plate hone jobs and the shop doesn,t even own torque plates or a hone machine,

    DON,T GET ALL IMPRESSED if the shop has a few fast cars,with their advertising stickers at the track, and never take only one or two racers word as the last word, on the subject,of who does good precise work,because, it might only be their (BUDDIES) that they take the time to do work correctly on,
    ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS, TALK TO LOTS OF PEOPLE, you'll eventually find out which shops do quality work and which do sloppy or slipshod work, or take money and never do the work correctly at times


    a machine shop that you can drop off parts, explain what you want done and then get those parts back in a timely manor and ,use , the resulting work,and that doesn,t require you to verify everything was done correctly is as rare, as an honest politician who won,t take bribes, or contributions.
    every time I think Ive found a good machine shop , and drop my guard, and trust them , Ive usually got screwed, if not on the price, at least on the quality of work, I don,t mind paying for quality work, as long as I get exactly what I'm promised WHEN its expected at THE PRICE I WAS QUOTED
    understand that time is money, but when you PAY to have something done, it should be done on time and at the quoted price and done correctly


    the longer I build engines the more work Im forced to do personally

    this thread below may interest you


    viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2198

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-buying-used-engine-blocks.14305/#post-73107

    viewtopic.php?f=67&t=3555&p=9438&hilit=pictures+machine+shop#p9438
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2018
  3. joegagan

    joegagan Well-Known Member

    grump, you've heard me tell my old stories, but your points here are absolutely correct.

    when i was trying to squeeze the most bang out of my short block dollar, i talked to many racers, especially the dirt track racer guys at the time.

    9 out of ten racers pointed me to one shop - they all said " the winning motors all come from 'XXX' shop. -- that was all i needed to hear. of course there were a half dozen engine shops in town that were more well known, mostly from advertising or builds for hobby guys who didn't really race their cars.

    when i took my parts to XXX shop, they took the time to explain all the options, no pressure, no hype, then they built me a bottom end that held up like a mother and made a couple hundred passes + 30k road miles with no problem.

    20 years later, i ran into the owner of the shop at a swap meet and thanked him for his great work.
     
  4. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    take several clear and detailed photos /pictures, of each & every part you supply,and mandate receipts or billing invoices from any parts the machine shop supplies, stating part number , brand and price, plus you need too stamp your parts with your phone number,get detailed receipts and have the shop sign and date the back of the pictures,and print a date the parts will be completed on and ready for pick-up, don,t fall for the old (vague, in about two weeks) you may be tempted to take as you deliver the parts, and get clearly written receipts PLUS have work to be done, DATE listed in detail and with the expected prices and completion dates, with a easy to verify number like your phone number, on both the parts and receipts.
    you need to write a detailed set of instructions listing exactly whats to be done, on each component and the prices and dates the works expected to be completed on.

    KEEP in mind if you don,t have a firm dated contract listing everything to be done and a FIRM due date when the parts are to be delivered, IF You paid in advance, the machine shop most likely spent the money, and now has no incentive to work on your stuff.

    I had a buddy drop off boss 302 ford heads to a machine shop in Florida,the receipt stated 2 ford sbf heads to be decked and a valve job, and they returned 2 barrel WINSOR heads, he went to court and since he could not PROVE that the heads he dropped off at the shop were BOSS 302 heads he got screwed, and the shop got away with swapping heads on him
    ALWAYS take the time and effort to get detailed receipts and pictures.

    I had another buddy drop off BRODIX aluminum heads and some new hire moron dropped them in a caustic soda bath for degrease.to soak over night,..TOTAL LOSS, luckily he had detailed and clear before pictures, they were forced to buy him new heads, without clear pictures IM 100% sure they would have said the heads arrived in that condition

    never be vague, in your list of whats to be done, and list specific DATES for completion,don,t except "in a week or so" have him write down a date, if he says 1-2 weeks,and two weeks is up on lets say "aug 12 2010" then have that date clearly listed, on the work order, as a firm commitment, your not trying to rush the guy or box him in as much as keep him from endlessly ignoring the work. and don,t for example list "DO VALVE JOB" list replace valve seals with type (XYZ) you prefer,ream or replace guides, cut valve seats ,three angles ,( list them) replace springs, listing installed height,spring load rates, spring bind height and make sure the spring seats machined ETC. back cut valves with 30 deg angle, etc. once you get into details theres far less area for confusion on the machine shops end as to pricing and whats to be expected, leaving far less room for arguments and the machine shop operator knows hes not dealing with some jerk that cant tell a valve guide from a lifter
    IF they REPLACE parts INSIST on getting the original parts back at least long enough to inspect them.
    MAKE SURE YOU CLEAN RECENTLY MACHINED PARTS THE MACHINE SHOPS VERY UNLIKELY TO DO A GOOD JOB
    http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/40-Gallon-Parts-Washer
    [​IMG]

    BTW HERES RELATED INFO

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=3169&p=8452&hilit=+cost+machine+shop#p8452

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=321&p=3007#p3007

    viewtopic.php?f=44&t=3020&p=7961&hilit=finding+machine#p7961

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=401&p=7853&hilit=angle+milled#p7853

    viewtopic.php?f=87&t=4718&p=12815&hilit=machine+photos#p12815

    viewtopic.php?f=87&t=10408&p=43169#p43169
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2016
  5. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    while these prices, posted here below, may not be typical of most machine-shops ,in your area, they are not that far off from what I see quoted at times, and machine work done correctly by an experienced and knowledgeable machinist is rarely cheap, nor, is it easy in many areas to even find a decent machine shop that has both the wide variety of expensive machine tools that are required to really do a complete performance engine build, and a machinist that knows how to use those tools, and even rarer still a machine shop that will have the work done correctly and at the price they quote, delivered consistently on the agreed upon time and date!.DEAL WITH A QUALITY MACHINE SHOP with a GREAT REPUTATION that depends on maintaining good customer feed back for repeat work.
    a competent and experienced machine shop, machinist, you can trust to point out whats REQUIRED and what is SUGGESTED is a very valuable asset , you really should look for and researching what you think needs to be done, how that is accomplished and why its likely necessary in any particular application, goes a long way toward preventing both disagreements and wasted money on an engine build AS does having access too or better yet owning some precision measuring tools that allow you to check and verify that any machine work you pay for was in fact correctly done!

    keep in mind theres material costs , tooling costs,consumables used and a skilled machinist trying to make a living, and time you might not have thought about like balancing the engine that can easily add $200-$600 depending on whats required, and custom valve train parts and the time required to assemble heads in labor alone could add $800-$2200 to a build sheets price tag.
    need the crank polished? rods bushed?, valves back-cut? a multi angle valve job? theres a hundred way the price and time , to build an engine will cause the price you pay to increase so be aware its never cheap, fast or going to cost less than you expect it too, machine shops can and do charge $60 plus an hour and it can easily take several days to correctly assemble an engine.
    it should give you some idea as to the cost of some machine work, and I find it rather amazing that when the newer guys in this hobby start planing to build a race or even a performance engine they will very commonly start pricing part costs and darn few even consider the LABOR or MACHINE SHOP costs to clearance fit, balance , polish and correctly assemble parts they buy, this is always a mistake simply because this facet of the build can take several weeks and easily add several thousand dollars in cost to the engine assembly process, yet its rarely considered, and in the vast majority of cases those costs are not something you can avoid or ignore and if your one of those people that take components out of the box and start bolting things together ,with few if any checks being made during the assembly process to verify how the parts fit, the required fit finish and clearances, your also likely to be one of the huge majority of guys who remain rather clueless as to why your occasionally having (UN EXPLAINABLE engine failures)
    If you have an engineering back-ground you know that certain machine work will require certain types of tooling, and a quick look around most shops gives you some idea as to what they can handle, boring and honing ,block machining, indexing lifter bores etc. all require expensive machine tools ,Ive had machine shops quote me prices for work that there was no way in hell, they could do with the tooling they have on hand, and It should be rather obvious that if you don,t have the required tools your very unlikely to be able to do the work unless the machine shop sends part of the work out to a sub-contractor, thus its MANDATORY you carefully engrave or stamp, and photograph from several angles, the parts you drop off, and get very detailed printed and signed documentation listing both what you dropped off, what (in very explicit detail) you want done and when it will be completed and the total cost of that work, documented.
    always ALWAYS get everything in detailed writing before you start specifying all machine work parts and labor costs, due dates and have every single part you supply ID stamped and photograph, listed and a value assigned with both YOU and the machine shop having identical signed copys
    listing the cost and dates and work details

    the old, we will give you a call when its ready,
    and that usually costs about $300 or so to have that done unless we run into problems ,
    just won,t cut it!
    TRUST ME HERE!
    (if you TRUST THEM AT 90% OF MACHINE SHOPS, WITHOUT HAVING DETAILED DOCUMENTATION YOU WILL GET FINANCIALLY RAPED!)

    find and deal with a reputable machine shop and don,t shop low price, get a guy you can trust to do the job correctly the first time, the last thing you need is to drop off a $3500 block or set of cylinder heads and get them back in far less usable condition then they were when you pick them up, or have the guy push a totally different set of parts out on the counter and swear you dropped these parts off rather than the actual parts you dropped off and it happens far more often than you might believe!
    and
    it certainly helps if you have done some research ,prior to having work dropped off, on what you need done and how to verify the works been done correctly and owning a few precision measuring tools is almost mandatory,
    ask lots of questions, know what your talking about and know how to verify the works actually been done correctly to the agreed upon clearances or surface finish, or tolerances.
    don,t shop low price rather shop for top quality work, done correctly at a fair price thats delivered on the agreed dates.
    if you obviously know what your talking about, know the correct terminology and have the ability to verify the works been done correctly and insist on accurate documentation, and take dozens of pictures and have work signed in and out with a carefully documented paperwork trail, your a bit less likely to get SCREWED by the machine shop.
    EXAMPLE

    most of the machine shops I trust near me charge about $270-$300 for a valve job,and it can easily go up if you need welding or valve guides spring seat machining, new parts etc.
    one shop, I learned to NEVER deal with early on, has a big sign outside listing valve jobs for $100/plus parts (Ive never seen anyone get out under $400 and work quality looks like a drunk with a hammer and chisel does the majority of the work!

    ITS well worth the effort for you too, take the time to visit the local race tracks with a pen,pad and paper and ask a few dozen of the guys racing the 11 second and faster cars about which machine shops can be trusted to do quality work at a fair price and deliver on time!

    Shop Labor Sheet
    Shop Time $98.50/hr
    Block Services
    Short Block Labor
    You Must Purchase A Complete Short Block Labor
    For Any Warranty
    Disassemble Short Block - Remove Crank, Rods, Pistons, Cam and Timing
    Deluxe Degrease - Jet Wash, R-R Cam Brgs, Freeze Plugs, Oil Galley Plugs, and Magnaflux for Cracks
    Bore - Rottler Bar - Bore For Your Size Pistons 45deg & Parallel To Mainline
    Hone - Sunnen Power Hone Finished For Your Rings
    Resize Rods - Sunnen Rod Machine W/New Nuts
    Balance Rods And Pistons - Hines Computerized Balancer
    Assemble Short Block - Install Crank - Pistons and Rods - Camshaft And Timing
    4-Cylinder - $399.00 most
    6-Cylinder - $469.00 most
    8-Cylinder - $499.00 most
    Install Cylinder Head(s) - Adjust Valves - $100.00 Most
    Install Cylinder Head OHC - Adjust Valves - $137.50, 2Cams-$220, 4Cams-$400
    Install Tin - Clean Install Pan-Covers-Intake - $275.00 Most
    Crankshafts Engine Balancing
    Grind most 6 or 8cyl Crank $142.50 4-cyl $169.50
    Grind 7 main crank (6cyl) $154.50 6-cyl inline $200.50
    Clean Polish $51.50 V-6 or V-8 $249.50
    Magnaflux $53.50 Standard Flywheel & Pres Plt $36.50
    Weld rod/main each $75.00 Crank Only w/Bob Weights $125.50
    Weld Thrust $77.50 Need: Pistons, Rods, Crank, Rings, Rod
    brgs, Flywheel (with Bolts),


    Shop Labor Sheet
    Block Services
    Shop Time $98.50/hr
    Tear Down Surface Blocks
    Dis-assemble short block $87.00 Deck 4-cyl $98.50
    Dis-assemble long block $109.50 Deck 6-cyl inline $98.50
    Remove cyl head each $35.50 Parallel deck w/mainline 6or8 $164.50
    Remove pan - covers - intake Each $11.00 Square deck (parallel & 90deg) $198.50
    Cleaning Above covers .015” cut Addl $1.20/.001”
    Del Deg 4-cyl WO cam brgs $78.50 Mock assem/check deck Ht. $88.00
    Del Deg 4-cyl W cam brgs $83.50 Block Boring/Honing
    Del Deg 6-cyl WO cam brgs $78.50 Bore - power hone $25.00ea
    Del Deg 6-cyl W cam brgs $89.50 Install Torque Plates $35.50ea
    Del Deg 8-cyl $94.50 Power hone Cyls $11.50ea
    Deluxe Degrease: Remove cam brgs, core
    plugs, oil galley plugs, jet wash, magnaflux,
    install cam brgs, core plugs, oil galley plugs
    plus parts
    Sleeve cylinder + Sleeve $121.50
    Block Work
    De-rust block $93.50 Line hone Mains $181.50
    Tank bare block $46.50 Mock assem/check clearances $134.50
    R-R cam brgs $11.00ea Degree cam (must have card) $98.50
    Tin work per load $22.00 Race prep SBChev $132.00
    Clean Intake $40.50 Race prep: Relieves oil galleys, tap front
    Plugs, internally restrict (solid only, relieve oil
    returns, supply oil to cam thrust, improved
    cooling
    Connecting Rod Work
    Recondition 3 or less $24.50ea
    Recondition 4-cyl $88.50 Flywheels
    Recondition 6-cyl $132.50 Surface flywheel flat $40.50
    Recondition 8-cyl $176.50 Surface flywhl w/step or pins $50.00
    R - R - align pistons $12.50ea Surface flywheel w/step & pins $55.00
    R - R - size pin bshgs+PARTs $22.50ea R&R Ring Gear $37.50
    Check big end for size $10.50ea VW Deep Step $60.50


    Shop Labor Sheet
    Cylinder Head Services
    Shop Time $98.50/hr
    Basic Valve Grind Hard Ex Seats
    4 Cylinder OHV 2V per $104.50 4 Cylinder + Seats $99.00
    6 Cylinder OHV 2V per $132.00 6 Cylinder + Seats $126.50
    8 Cylinder $170.50 8 Cylinder + Seats $149.50
    Recessed sprg (most ohc) $13.50/valve One only (cut in Type)+seat $40.50
    Diesel heads $18.50/valve Each Additional (same head) $25.50
    R-R removable type+seat $27.50
    Basic Valve Grind: dis-assemble - clean
    head(s) inspect, magnaflux, or dye test heads,
    inspect guides, springs, and valves. Grind
    valves, tri cut seats, assemble, and vacuum test
    for leak down
    Re-Surface Heads
    4 Cylinder - Mill $64.50
    4 Cylinder Surface $39.50
    6 Cylinder Mill $75.50
    6 Cylinder Surface $56.50
    Pressure Test V-Type Mill $93.00
    Cylinder head $58.50 V-Type Surface $65.50
    Matched Pair $96.00 Above covers .015” cut Addl $2.00/.001”
    Additional charge for special setups Mill Intake Side $40.50 ea
    Guide Work Surface Ex Side $31.50 ea
    4 cyl (bronze or cast)+guide $61.50 Surface Ex Manifold $57.00 ea
    6 cyl (bronze or cast)+guide $79.50 Mill V type Intake $98.50
    8cyl (bronze or cast)+guide $105.50 O.H.C.
    R-R guide alum head+guide $10.000ea R-R cam/rock shafts - adjust $40.50ea
    Valves and Seats Surface Rocker Arms $9.50 ea
    Clean - grind valves 4 or less $5.50ea R-R arms from shaft/clean $30.00/shaft
    Clean - grind valves 4 or more $5.00ea Misc
    Tri-Cut seats 4 or less $13.50ea Set Valve Stem Hts(non adj) $2.50ea
    Tri-Cut seats 4 or more $11.50ea Cut for OS Springs $11.50ea
    Install OS valve w/bowl hog $15.50ea Install Studs w/shoulder+parts $159.50
    Bowl hog 78deg $10.50ea Install Studs wo/shoulder+parts $123.50

    related info

    threads related to cleaning parts and prep.

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...an-aluminum-intake-manifold.14410/#post-74196

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-76350

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...cking-blocks-heads-for-cracks.3363/#post-8862

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...nt-moore-tools-related-info.12148/#post-74995

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-buying-used-engine-blocks.14305/#post-73107

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-68861

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-59253

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...engine-stand-mods-accesories.3724/#post-26986

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/dealing-with-a-local-machine-shop.14419/
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  6. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    Yeah its that time again.

    Many shops just want to rebuild diesel engines today.
    Dedicated contract work.
    Just like Autobody men doing insurance work daily.

    Pontiac guys have it worst.
    No wants them to Win.

    Mafia network in Illinois .

    People will die and strange accidents sudden happen if Poncho stolen.

    I trust my Bud Steve.
    He knows me too.
    Real I am.
     
  7. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    If your smart you'll find a machine shop that has a machinist or SEVERAL,with DECADES of experience and have consistently and repeatedly, regularly worked on your particular engine family, yes there are machine shops that specialize in BIG BLOCK chevy's and OTHERS that do mostly MOPAR or FORD, you sure don,t want a guy that does mostly rice burners thats never seen a 454 before working on your prized hot rod engine so take the time to research what machine shop you need to deal with.
    ITS mandatory that YOU as an engine builder be aware that theres a few machine shops that are run by scam artists willing , even happy to cheat the less informed customers, and the decepion and cost cutting saves them considerable money while basically providing you with a very inferior product at an inflated price.
    IMPORTED parts from over seas being substituted for much more expensive, well known brand name components, DOES HAPPEN!
    It helps your engine's potential durability tremendously, if you take the time and effort to verify that you have, and that if you have a machine shop do all or part of your engine assembly that they, actually had the quality components, you paid for installed in your engine, Ive had several machine shops try to pass off and install really crappy quality components in engines while charging top dollar for brand name parts.
    now I'm sure that easily 70% -90% of the guys never bother to check what they got back from the machine shop for accurate machine work or that simple things like the bolts, studs and bearings , rings and gaskets the machine shop used during the engine assembly were actually the parts you paid for, but I know for a fact that less than honest shops don,t bat an eye over making a few bucks extra with this bait and switch B,S.
    Ive seen connecting rods, main caps, studs rockers push rods pistons, piston rings, cranks and several other components being billed as name brand components and lesser quality parts actually installed!
    there was a machine shop in Hollywood florida , that for decades was well known for this deceptive practice
    example
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    I purchased a fox milling machine several years ago when I got frustrated at local shops absurdly over billing me for darn simple milling machine work, I may or may not have made the smartest financial move as the cost of the mill is only a small part as you need rather extensive accessories and tooling before the machines useful and I'll admit I was not expecting those components to cost almost as much as the mill. I took several classes in college, and learned the basics, but you really learn more once your hands-on and youll find you always need to do more research, watch videos and occasionally pay some local machinist to show you how to do something correctly.. and of course theres an expensive and endless list of new tooling to be purchased , on the plus side the tooling and mill cost is partly offset by the savings in work your not sending out.


    Weighing in at over 2400 lbs of cast iron and hardened precision ground steel, Model M1003 has the size and stability to handle the toughest jobs. With a 2 HP motor driving 8 speeds from 78 to 2400 RPM, 3 speed quill feed with a micrometer depth stop and auto reverse, and a variable speed longitudinal power feed, this machine has the ability to do the most complex and precise jobs. This brute has both power and finesse!
    One-shot pump lubrication
    Auto down feed
    Quill feeds/spindle rev.: .0019", .0035", .0058" Auto stop with micro adjustable stop
    R-8 spindle Longitudinal power feed
    Hardened and ground table surface Chrome plated, precision-ground quill
    Adjustable micrometer quill depth stop
    Motor: 2 HP, 110V/220V, single-phase, TEFC, prewired to 220V
    Spindle travel: 5"
    Table size: 9" x 49"
    Table travel (longitudinal): 27"
    Table travel (cross): 12"
    Max. dist. spindle to table: 18-3/4"
    Max. dist. spindle to column: 18-1/2"
    Knee travel: 16"
    Head tilt: 45° both ways
    Head swivel: 90° both ways
    T-slots: 3 on 2-1/2" centers, 1/2" studs
    Speeds: 8 Range of speeds: 78, 98, 197, 278, 670, 850, 1700 and 2400 RPM
    Approximate shipping weight: 2405 lbs.
    each area has machine shops with different tools, experience and unfortunately some machinists have attitude issues
    and don,t seem to think delivering top quality work at reasonable prices and on promised delivery dates are a reasonable expectation.

    I've seen a great many machine shops who either just don,t give a rats A$$ or they are CLUELESS INCOMPETENTS
    you can't assume anything you paid for was done correctly,
    until

    YOU VERIFY IT PERSONALLY (AND YES THAT REQUIRES PRECISION MEASURING AND EFFORT)

    in either case this forces a decent engine builder to verify all the work was properly done

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-the-rabbit-hole-with-alice.10933/#post-66925



    a day or so spent in careful research & reading can save you hundreds of dollars and months of wasted work

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/piston-to-bore-clearance.4630/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...piston-to-bore-clearance-on-your-block.14251/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-and-installing-connecting-rods-pistons.247/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rotating-assembly-bearings.9527/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...oven-facts-if-your-in-doubt.13051/#post-69824

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/assembly-lube-summary.6352/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/maximizing-piston-to-bore-ring-seal.3897/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-and-basic-piston-ring-info-youll-need.509/
    [/quote]
    related threads
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-55314

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-60187

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-in-building-a-good-engine.11682/#post-54682

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-52466

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51823

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-train-clearances-and-problems.528/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-springs-and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-and-installing-connecting-rods-pistons.247/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/maximizing-piston-to-bore-ring-seal.3897/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-51341

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-51146

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...embling-an-engine-correctly.10363/#post-43802

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/machine-shop-sequencing.4460/#post-11720

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/installing-splayed-caps.7267/#post-24528

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...block-cylinder-wall-thickness.976/#post-22976

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/#post-10122

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...cking-blocks-heads-for-cracks.3363/#post-8862
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  8. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

     

Share This Page