Flexplate and starter issue

[Carlos]

Hi,
after having my brand new transmission, converter and flexplate sitting around for a too long time, today I decided to start work and get it attached to the engine. So I slid the converter into the transmission, carefully engaged pump and bolted transmission to the engineblock.
Next I bolted the converter to the flexplate.
I don't know why I did so, but for the very first time I hooked up the starter, cranking to check things, before bringing the engine into the Cobra, good I did so. Maybe the force from above...

Anyway, I don't like what I did see.
The Flexplate seems to be a bit warped - or is this normal? See video.
Also the starter doesn't retract properly. I checked shimming, cant reduce the engaement depth - no more shims for axial move. W.r.t radial gap I even shimmed up to 0.06", just to see the effect but pinion still get stuck in the flywheel sometimes.
Starter is clean, greased, new solenoid as well.
For the starter issue I assume the old flexplate's gear was worn out already, same seems to be the case of the starters pinion.
No idea on the flexplate though. Thought an SFI rated shall be kinda guarantee for quality...

Any help appreciated

Carlos

 

[Grumpy]

thanks for posting the related video, it makes your concerns about the problem much easier to understand.
your flex-plate not being perfectly flat, or partly warped is not uncommon,and while obviously not ideal ,
Id carefully check the crank mounting bolts and the bolts on the torque converter,
to make sure they are properly installed and the flex plate is installed ,
on the crank flange facing the correct direction.
Ive seen no major functional issues as a result of similar issues on other engines where it was found and not addressed.
nor is the fact the starter bendix gear extends only 3/4-to-7/8th of the way across the gear teeth of the flex-plate ring gear teeth un-common,
your starter not easily engauging or dis-en-gauging due to clearance is how ever a problem that should be looked into

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/starter-shims-measurment.1802/#post-4614

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bolts-on-converter.11083/

 

[Carlos]

thanks for your hints which I followed.
I did check the crank mounting bolts, all OK, same for the bolts on the torque converter - all OK
Flexplate "engine side" facing to engine, raised converter mounts face the converter.
When checking the surfaces I have seen the ring of the converter, where the threads are in, is slightly warped too, most likely due to welding process.
So this will definitely make the flexplate bending a bit. But I guess I can ignore this partly warped flexplate, although I don't like it.

With the starter, I shimmed to spec. - didn't work-still no reliable dis-engaging. Then I shimmed up to get lots of play between flexplate gear and starter gear, but doesn't work either.
Still gets stuck sometimes, like outlined at the end of the yellow box in your previous post. But I can't shim the Bendix Gear, I can't see how this would work with my Tilton starter.
It seems I need to replace it, as the spring retracting the bendix gear doesnt pull hard enough, obviously.
If you have more ideas to cure my problem I'd be happy.
Else I go for a new starter.
I had THIS ONE so far, any other recommendation aprecciated. Due to CR engine starts hard sometimes, so a less powerful starter won't make it.

Just seen Tilton Engineering sells pinion and spring kits , so I'll try this

 

[Grumpy]

a 160-200 amp alternator,
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/is-my-alt-dead.6964/#post-22890
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...he-daily-driver-1999-chevy-tahoe.15081/page-2
1996 vette
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-478648
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-378068

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...
remember to use ARP grade 8 bolts with loc-tite in the threads RED SUGGESTED 271

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-230-7305
1985 corvette
https://www.dbelectrical.com/produc...MInZDL6u-X3gIVCo7ICh3cVgA5EAQYAiABEgKGnPD_BwE

http://www.powerstream.com/Amps-Watts.htm#amps-watts

and a battery thats rated at at least 850 cold crank amps ,

and a quality gear reduction starter,

the better quality versions of the gear reduction high torque starters tend to work rather well

Tuff Stuff Performance 6772B
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tff-6772b/overview/make/chevrolet

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/problem-with-starter.1646/#post-65015




several good fluid coolers equipped with electrical fans,
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...sion-and-oil-cooler-increases-durability.176/

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HFM-ZFB16S&N=700+320174+4294775279+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DER-13720&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DER-15800&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRM-12318&N=700+115&autoview=sku
are almost always a great up-grade, in a serious performance car

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/multi-meters.3110/#post-71867

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/battery-charger-for-the-shop.928/#post-55775

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/battery-life.11172/#post-50085

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/current-draw.11310/#post-51526

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Hi,
after having my brand new transmission, converter and flexplate sitting around for a too long time, today I decided to start work and get it attached to the engine. So I slid the converter into the transmission, carefully engaged pump and bolted transmission to the engineblock.
Next I bolted the converter to the flexplate.
I don't know why I did so, but for the very first time I hooked up the starter, cranking to check things, before bringing the engine into the Cobra, good I did so. Maybe the force from above...

Anyway, I don't like what I did see.
The Flexplate seems to be a bit warped - or is this normal? See video.
Also the starter doesn't retract properly. I checked shimming, cant reduce the engaement depth - no more shims for axial move. W.r.t radial gap I even shimmed up to 0.06", just to see the effect but pinion still get stuck in the flywheel sometimes.
Starter is clean, greased, new solenoid as well.
For the starter issue I assume the old flexplate's gear was worn out already, same seems to be the case of the starters pinion.
No idea on the flexplate though. Thought an SFI rated shall be kinda guarantee for quality...

Any help aprecciated

Carlos

Its Totally Normal Carlos.
The Stater Motor Bendix on all aftermarket Mini starters engaginging only 1/2 way to 2/3 rds across the flywheel or flexplate ring gear during cranking.
To correct you need to Machine your own Starter nose from Billet aluminum.
I 1st noticed on my Trans Am in 1996. Bought a Tilton mini stater for a Pontiac V8. I remember paying $400.00 for it then.

They will stick the Bendix at times and stay engaged.
On an engine that actually starts and runs the Bendix is forced back to full retract position.
So no worries.

The Flexplate likely is made in China.
I dont like what I see either.
SCAT Is Good.
TCI Is good.
HAYS Flexplates are good.

No Racing Mini starter is ideal for Street driving day in day out.
The Full Size Delco 10MT starter motor is Superior for Reliabilty.
Thats when I build a Factory High Torque model for myself.
Not good for headers. Use with factory High Po exhaust manifolds.
Up to 10.75 :1 static compression ratio.

The GM Flexplates are superior for quality.
Not SFI. Max RPM safe to use is 6500 no more.
Max HP 400.
Max torque 500 ft/lbs.
No Trans Brake used like a Turbo 400.

Mini staters are Good.
Made for Racing.
Like Drag Race.
They fail. All. Trust me.
If you use with a Muncie 4 Speed you can always push start.
2Nd gear at 10-15 mph.
Let the clutch out.
Off and running.

Everything is made in China now.
TILTON Still the Best Mini starter made.

 

[Loves302Chevy]

Brian beat me to it - On an engine that actually starts and runs the Bendix is forced back to full retract position.
So no worries.
When the engine actually starts , flexplate now turning faster than the starter motor, is when the gear disengages.
If your torque converter's flexplate mounting tabs are correct, then when bolted together, the large ring gear should run truer.
You could always rotate it and try the other 2 bolt positions.
I have never seen a ring gear run perfectly true.
Nice to see you looking for potential problems, instead of just bolting parts together.
You will like it here. Welcome to Grumpys.

 

[Grumpy]

I think I know the answer to this...but if you have long tube headers (TPIS), do you have to remove the exhaust to remove the starter? Seems like yes to me. :down:

I have not used that particular brand of headers, so I can,t be 100% certain, but in most cases, and with HOOKER and HEADMAN headers you can get access, without removing the headers , but its far easier if you remove or at least partly loosen the header to cylinder head bolts.
but in any case if you have a decent set of (4) 12 ton jack stands ,
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-jack-stands-34924.html


which allow you a good deal of room under the corvette once its up, and a decent floor jack to do it with, and a mechanics creeper or IDEALLY a lift in your shop, its not going to be a major project in any case

yeah! I know a LIFT seems so easy, but in many cases I actually prefer the floor jack,jack stands and creeper, probably the result of 35 years or working that way even though I now have an excellent lift


http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=969

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1260

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=458&p=23082&hilit=starters#p23082

thank you for posting the pictures,
it verify,s a point a lot of guys ignore, or over look.
, that there are dozens of different O.E.M, and aftermarket mini starters,
and most will be slightly different in size/length/diameter
thus someone with a nearly identical engine and headers may have only minor issues installing/replacing a starter,
while you might have more extensive and time consuming issues ,
even mandating, temporary header removal from head studs