Franzinator Air Dryer

that graph made hundreds of old home work style memories of college work, and lab assignments come flashing thru my mind like bad night mare flash backs, I was great at memorizing most stuff and geometry was a breeze but calculus always made me crazy
 
grumpyvette said:
that graph made hundreds of old home work style memories of college work, and lab assignments come flashing thru my mind like bad night mare flash backs, I was great at memorizing most stuff and geometry was a breeze but calculus always made me crazy
Sorry if that caused you any discomfort! :D

Geometry and trigometry are more concrete and logical, where Calculus is more abstract. I couldn't
do anything with Calculus now, but geometry and trig are still useful occasionally.

 
well? hows your air drier working out?,

IM currently fabricating test version 2 , because the version one built by my B-I-L failed to work correctly, so were building something similar to your design, hopefully it will work .
 

I've run the compressor......guessing maybe 45 minutes. Yesterday I open the garage because we were getting a light rain. When I drained both the air dryer and and the compressor tank I got about 1/2 teaspoon from each. Maybe slightly more from the compressor tank.

There just doesn't seem to be much moisture in the air right now.

I just got my Extech 42545, so maybe I can add more info in a few days.

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I emptied the tank and held open a blow gun for the entire 10 minute test. Then took temperature reading every 2 minutes at the 3 locations shown in the picture. After 10 minutes the head temp was 230F.

I added a 6" copper extension to the 90 degree elbow, this might have been the wrong thing to do.The hottest location anywhere on the air dryer was about 2" below where the 6" extension ended.

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I'm not sure if this tells us anything, what do you make of it?

 
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the pressurized line between compressor and franzinator (SEE GREEN ARROW) is obviously pushing hot air containing moisture in suspension into the franzinator which in theory separates the water from the air by both slowing and rapidly cooling the air, allowing the moisture to condense, get heavy and fall out of the air flow where its trapped and later drained, so the problem is obviously that the air needs to rapidly be reduced in temperature from the 200F plus range it leaves the compressor at to as low as possible as it enters the franzinator and even lower as it leaves to enter the holding tank. this can be accomplished much more effectively in several ways...example

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did you notice the dozens of washers on this guys feed tube, they are there to act as a heat dispersal set of fins greatly increasing the exposed surface area, hes also wrapped the franzinator in a tube constantly absorbing heat into a flow of cold water encircling the franzinator and insulated from outside heat.

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now obviously adding a 50 foot coil of copper tubing to replace the tubing at the green arrow location and a fan would drastically reduce the air temp of the compressed air to near room temps, increasing efficiency, just like a spare oil cooler could be used
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but in an ideal world the copper coil would be routed into the freezer compartment of a spare refrigerator then out to the franzinator where the water would almost certainly drop out easily at near freezing temps
 

At this point I think I'm going to wait and see if I still have a problem this spring. If I do then I will start with that short copper line of about 2 feet between the pump and air dryer that you mentioned. Probably make it longer, add some fins and maybe a fan.

This does not concern drying the air, but I would suggest moving the unloader valve to the input of the air dryer. There is a lot more volume of compressed air now that is trapped between the pump to receiving tank section. This is being dumped and is a waste of energy. It use to take a few seconds to work, but now the process is about 30-40 seconds long.

 
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heres a picture of a guys shop where he obviously went to a good deal of work and expense to get the compressor to supply dry air, the heat radiating copper pipe used to condense the moisture in the hot compressed air must be connected to the compressor before it enters the holding tank NOT after the holding tank, to work correctly
1963SS;3373681 said:
Does this happen to anyone else? Just a small compressor mishap. My compressor exploded and took out a wall between the woodworking side of the garage and the greasy side. I was about 10 feet away and I thought a Claymore mine had went off. The compressor left the floor, blew out the windows, broke the fluorescent tubes in the lights and tore up a plywood wall and studs it was beside.

There were things flying all over the garage from the force of the blow and the concussion......I guess. Never has anything like this happen in my last 71 years and I hope it doesn't happen again.

It appears that 30 years of moisture had made the bottom of the tank thinner (rust) than the rest of the tank and at 125 psi just ........ BOOM. Picture dynamite or popping the worlds biggest balloon. Geesh,.......time for an underwear change.

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yes it not only happens occasionally, but its one of the major reasons that,
its strongly suggested you drain your compressor tanks before and after each use.
and use some method of separating out moisture from the compressed air before it enters the storage tanks, a heat ex-changer like a salvaged air conditioner evaporator radiator plumbed into the air lime between the compressor and air storage tank will help.
below you see what one guy fabricated, a high pressure radiator type oil cooler or air conditioning component heat ex-changer like a salvaged air conditioner evaporator radiator plumbed into the air lime between the compressor and air storage tank will help.
obviously adding a moisture drain valve will also help here
you can plumb in a heat exchanger like this from an older air conditioner,between the compressor and storage tank, mounted high on a wall so it does not take up floor space, wire the fan to come on when the compressor runs, adding a cheap fan helps condense the moisture,and allow it to drop out of the air mass before reaching the storage tank (s).
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https://jniolon.classicpickup.com/compressorwatertrap/aircompressorwatertrap.htm
 
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Now is that 1/2" ID or OD copper tubing??? :D

I've been thinking about what you have been up to on this project a couple of times lately. To complete my project and bought new 3/8" ID Goodyear hose ($24.91) and disposable inline filter that I attached to the spray gun. The picture doesn't show it very well but you can see the color of the desiccant thru the sides of the filter, so when it changes color you just throw it away.

http://www.tooltopia.com/arrow-pneumatic-pma-10.aspx

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I got it all connected and started running several test procedures , at first I had a few minor leaks in the soldered 1/2 inside diam. copper tubing connections where I failed to get perfect solder coverage and a few more minor leaks in the threaded pipe sections of the franzinator that I tracked down quickly with a spray bottle of water mixed with DAWN dish wash detergent ,
(leaks result in bubbles in the soap mist solution sprayed on suspected leaks)
once those were resealed and corrected it became obvious that the hot air from the compressors entering the franzinator rapidly heated the franzinator to the point that very little moisture was collecting and being separated in the franzinator , just like you found with your IR heat gun, testing, so the franzinator was effectively mostly useless at this point, and under these current conditions, a rather disappointing failure in my opinion, as it doesn,t truly eliminate the moisture although it does seem to work marginally , but the concept is valid so I need to install two heat exchangers or fan equipped condensers on the compressor feed lines before the air reaches the franzinator moisture collector to dissipate the heat in the compressed air and let the franzinator work as a moisture collection and separation point, one thing that had me rather confused for a few minutes was the feed lines from both compressors enter the franzinator at about 1/3rd of the height and the two compressor tanks are fed from the upper franzinator connection, I had the tank gauges reading 120 psi on both tanks and opened the lower ball valve on the franzinator, naturally I got a rush of high pressure air exit the lower fanzinator but the pressure drained off in seconds yet the pressure gauges on the tank failed to drop even when there was no pressure left in the franzinator ????? then I figured out that theres a one way check valve in the top of each 60 gallon air storage tanks input line, so it will allow high pressure air flow into the storage tanks from the franzinator but it won,t allow back flow out too the franzinator back thru the input lines to the storage tanks if the pressure drops in the franzinator.

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adding a oil cooler type radiator , or even several to the hot air lines leaving the compressor output , will allow you to cool and separate a great deal of the moisture from the compressed air
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the solution seems simple enough but I need to find the correct components at a decent price to make the concept work and still remain cost effective
 
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grumpyvette said:
I got it all connected and started running several test procedures , at first I had a few minor leaks in the soldered 1/2 inside diam. copper tubing connections where I failed to get perfect solder coverage and a few more minor leaks in the threaded pipe sections of the franzinator that I tracked down quickly with a spray bottle of water mixed with DAWN dish wash detergent ,
(leaks result in bubbles in the soap mist solution sprayed on suspected leaks)
once those were resealed and corrected it became obvious that the hot air from the compressors entering the franzinator rapidly heated the franzinator to the point that very little moisture was collecting and being separated in the franzinator , just like you found with your IR heat gun, testing, so the franzinator was effectively mostly useless at this point,

Did you mean effective or ineffective ???

and under these current conditions, a rather disappointing failure in my opinion, as it doesn,t truly eliminate the moisture although it does seem to work marginally [/color], but the concept is valid so I need to install two heat exchangers or fan equipped condensers on the compressor feed lines before the air reaches the franzinator moisture collector

I'm getting mostly muck or emulsified oil out of the Franz. Probably because my compressor is 30 years old and a lot of oil is getting past the rings.


to dissipate the heat in the compressed air and let the franzinator work as a moisture collection and separation point, one thing that had me rather confused for a few minutes was the feed lines from both compressors enter the franzinator at about 1/3rd of the height and the two compressor tanks are fed from the upper franzinator connection, I had the tank gauges reading 120 psi on both tanks and opened the lower ball valve on the franzinator, naturally I got a rush of high pressure air exit the lower fanzinator but the pressure drained off in seconds yet the pressure gauges on the tank failed to drop even when there was no pressure left in the franzinator ????? then I figured out that theres a one way check valve in the top of each 60 gallon air storage tanks input line, so it will allow high pressure air flow into the storage tanks from the franzinator but it won,t allow back flow out too the franzinator back thru the input lines to the storage tanks if the pressure drops in the franzinator.
You must be talking about the Unloader valve that bleeds the pressure of the compressor pump so it's NOT starting against 120 psi. Once the compressor stops and the pressure is bleed off, the Franz is NOT holding any pressure any more.

ON FEBRUARY 23 I POSTED : You might want to try this mod. I've yet to try it thou.
Indycars said:

This does not concern drying the air, but I would suggest moving the unloader valve to the input of the air dryer. There is a lot more volume of compressed air now that is trapped between the pump to receiving tank section. This is being dumped and is a waste of energy. It use to take a few seconds to work, but now the process is about 30-40 seconds long.


the solution seems simple enough but I need to find the correct components at a decent price to make the concept work and still remain cost effective
 
well I spend most of the day soldering in three used 22"x 32" air conditioning condensers , my B.I.L. located dirt cheap, so that both compressors feed into a common distribution manifold, that feed 1/3 if the flow from the compressors to each of the three condensers then out to a similar manifold that feeds out to the one common franzinator, so it acts as a common moisture collection and drain point , then back out to the twin compressor hold tanks, the result is that the systems compressor heat in the air is reduced to room temp in the franzinator and about 99% of the moisture now drains there, never reaching the compressor holding tanks.
resulting in REASONABLY DRY AIR, I got ZERO air with moisture at the spray gun, and the addition of the three condensers vastly improved efficiency, I still need to make a few changes and the pipe routing needs further work and IM sure adding a fan will further improve the heat transfer resulting in even better efficiency, but the end result is that the three condensers did the trick, Ill post pictures as soon as I can, its certainly not a thing of beauty but it does work as its designed too!
 
I just drained my system and measured the amount of water from the compressor tank and the Franzinator. I got about 3 times the amount from the Franzinator this time. It seem to vary quite a bit. The longer the compressor run the more it heats the Franzinator up and the less effective it is. So it just depends on how the compressor is used, shorts runs are better for removing water.

Do you get much oil from your system similar to what you see in my pics?

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Im getting very little oil,showing in the trapped water drained,out of the franzinator moisture trap, just a tiny bit in fact, IM really happy with the addition of the 3 condensers, as they dissipate 99% of the heat in the compressed air before that air reaches the franzinator making it a simple moisture trap/separator and drain.
the addition of an electric fan did increase efficiency, in fact you have to drain the water out of the franzinator moisture collection pipe about every 30 minutes as it starts to fill remarkably fast with the fan on, showing its helped reduce and trap more moistureits rather (RUBE GOLDBERG) at this point, as I made brackets to hold the fan about 6" above the condensers surface out of (8) 90 degree sections of 3/4" PVC electrical conduit and a 10 ft section of cut up 3/4" plastic pipe. but its working very well, I no longer get any moisture at the last drain thats mounted just past where the dual compressors feed the pipe supplying the shops air tap quick connects for the air hoses
removing moisture from compressor high pressure air requires TIME , for the moisture in that air to condense,
DISTANCE, a long cool surface , like dozens if not hundreds of feet of metal pipe,will improve the odds of moisture collecting ,condensing and draining as the air cools, for the moisture to form on and drain, into, AND a pronounce reduction in air temperature or COOLING,obviously a condenser or radiator with its increased effective surface area and a fan to allow fast heat absorption will have benefits, keep in mind water or condensed moisture tends to run down hill , so giving it several places to collect that you can easily drain and pulling air you want to remove the moisture from, only from higher points placed after the air flow has had a chance to cool and condense is far smarter, design features, in planing your shop.
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Since I've added a new 60 gal Quincy compressor AND the Franzinator has had
chance to work with higher water content of the summer air temps..... I've
drained alot of water from the Franzinator.

Compressor and Piping Installation

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/compressor-installation-and-piping.8986/

I get 1/2 cup from it and the compressor tank usually has nothing. I've only
gotten water from the compressor a couple of times out of the many times
I've drained the Franz.

The water from the Frans no longer has any oil, it actually looks pretty clear,
although I think I will skip drinking any !!! :)

 
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you might be amazed at the results , in the reduction of moisture the air flow contains,
if you install a carefully selected combination of a heat dissipation radiator,or extensive use of copper pipe to allow the heat from the compressed air flow to cool rapidly and thus allow the airs moisture content to condense,

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this picture below has an excellent heat dissipation system with both copper tubes and a head dissipation radiator, but could be improved with a larger capacity moisture trap
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and , then place a larger moisture trapping pipe with a drain,

the picture below has the moisture trap tube but not the heat dissipation radiator or copper tube,
(YOU NEED BOTH IN A SERIES)

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with a drain, valve in line before the compressed air flow ever reaches the compressor storage tanks.
remember to drain the moisture trap and compressor storage tanks before and after each use.
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