getting a low buck hunt to work

[grumpyvette]

I've been elk hunting one time. Couple of us camped out in national forest in Colorado. Never saw an elk. So, I'm starting to save up for next year. Where do I start? I don't want to pay all that money and get ripped off. Looking for help for a guy who has never been on a paid hunt before

ID start by reading thru these related threads
viewtopic.php?f=97&t=1095

viewtopic.php?f=97&t=9487

viewtopic.php?f=97&t=4369

viewtopic.php?f=97&t=4051

viewtopic.php?f=92&t=1275

viewtopic.php?f=95&t=2808

viewtopic.php?f=92&t=1133&p=8577#p8577

OK a few basics ID sure recommend getting the state you want to hunt in license dates and license fees sorted out and ask for that stated licensing requirements, Id strongly suggest sending for at least 5-6 copies of the license applications for next year and have your hunter safety card valid if its required (most stated now require one)and no mater how good of physical shape your in start a strenuous exercise program, and stick with it starting at least 4-5 months prior to the hunt and get your doctors input, and be well aware of altitude sickness and hypothermia, if you can,t walk a fairly brisk pace , with a 45 -60 lb back pack on fairly level ground for at least 1/3 mile and repeat it several times a day as a basic test of your condition,with out your obviously needing to stop constantly , your not out of shape, too badly, but if you can,t do at least that you'll need to work hard until you can, or you'll find at higher altitudes you'll have trouble just walking for long periods. you'll want to think thru your equipment, and choice of friends carefully, and try to stay warm and dry with the least weight and bulk you can afford. a decent wide brim hat,comfortable boots a decent back pack,a water proof poncho, good down vest and thick sweater can be huge factors in your comfort and success
you don,t need a super, top of the line and expensive rifle , what you need is an average deer rifle in a caliber of about .270 or larger and one you've practiced extensively with, so you can hit with it accurately from quickly acquired field position to at least 250-300 yards, because Id bet 90% of big game is killed at under that distance.

lets assume Colorado

http://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Pages/BigGame.aspx

http://vimeo.com/57712241

you'll need a map of the areas open to hunting and the quotas ,in most cases you'll want too apply for several areas and be aware your HIGHLY unlikely to get the better areas on the first try so they award preference points , for years you fail to get the prime areas, thus your more likely to get an area you want the more often you apply but that obviously can take several years to accumulate point values that you might need, you'll also want to make arrangements with your friends so you all SEND IN IDENTICAL FORMS SELECTING THE SAME AREAS IN THE SAME ORDER OF PREFERENCE, SO YOU ALL GET LICENSES FOR THE SAME AREA ON THE SAME DATES. youll also want to order topo maps for ALL the areas where you may pull a license, and time spent on the GOOGLE EARTH WEB SITE getting to know the areas helps and be aware that you ALL may be assigned a license in an area you did not even select! ID point out you need to have friends that really want to hunt and share the experience and costs, because if you have the hunt set up as a 2-to-4 man group and one or two guys drop out it may make the hunt financially impossible for the remaining members and can result in a great deal of wasted money, this often results in a huge strain on friendships, if you plan all year and at the last few weeks some guy decides he won,t go and share expenses.

ok assuming you have serious friends and you all pay the license fees and draw an area and your ready and willing to go, youll need to pack a minimum of equipment in airline approve luggage if your flying or suitable duffel bags and top quality very durable gun cases etc. theres a huge tendency to over pack, as a general rule anything over a single duffel bag and one sturdy gun case will cause problems when flying and you'll generally want a decent back pack that you fit inside the duffel bag along with a decent high quality sleeping bag. if you are hiring a guide or outfitter obviously ask for detailed advice and several verifiable references from several years previous hunts and call the local Better Business Bureau, and local police station , and contact previous clients for references.DO your homework well theres ALWAYS scam artist willing to take your deposit and disappear with your money or equipment if its shipped ahead to the outfitter, or guys who provide little value for the money.
Call the local game department biologist and have a short list of well thought out questions to ask, hes busy and stupid vague questions like
(wheres the best place too hunt in area # XYZ " ) are not likely to get you honest answers,
honest questions like ."the 2nd hunt season hunt dates next year are oct XYZ-thru ABC, the average temps in that area at that elevation have historically been??, and I was wondering what the chances of being snowed in are?
or "my topo map shows CREEK #123 from camp site ,ZX drops into a 12 mile long canyon,is that canyon generally navigable on foot during that part of the year? and whats the predominant vegetation"
or on that area , what is the general population density and prime food source at that time of year?"
)
this is one reason I tend to prefer driving to the location, as I then have my equipment and transportation under my control.

BE realistic in your understanding of your chances of success, you can be the world best shot and a fantastically skilled hunter and you still will have an extremely low chance of bagging a decent trophy in many areas simply because MOST AREAS have low population density of TROPHY quality animals, so if shooting a trophy mule deer or elk is your main goal on a bargain priced hunt especially on open public land your chance are realistically UNDER 20% in most areas ,if you hunt on public land, it could easily take 10-15 YEARS in most areas to even see a single 7 point elk or 30" mule deer ONCE, that does not mean you'll get the opportunity at a shot EITHER

25%-40% success in camp,would be rather realistic most years,that means 2-or 3 guys out of 6-7 may tag an elk, not because we don,t have an opportunity, but because something worth shooting on public land never showed up!
and Id bet my group easily beats the local average success rates.
some of us are a bit reluctant to shoot "ANY DEER" because with years of experience you tend to be a good deal less impressed with "GETTING A DEER" and more concerned with
"getting an impressive deer or ELK," or shooting one "REASONABLY CLOSE TO A ROAD WE CAN ACCESS" rather than dragging or packing out a deer over long distance in difficult terrain,simply so you can say you scored.
yeah I was young once! but over the last 20 years, I wised up,Ive passed on far more deer and elk than Ive shot simply because I,m only too well aware of the effort required to get one out of the canyons I hunt, thus its going to be something worth shooting or it won,t get shot. As most of the older guys in cam skills improved they see more deer and elk but they also tend to get far more selective in what they shoot and reluctant to shot and then drag out less than impressive trophy's.

actual picture of the area we hunted most years

LOWER CANYON

upper canyon

 

[Grumpy]

one of the keys to reducing individual expenses is sharing equipment and transportation expenses it makes no sense to have each person , purchase and pack shared equipment like stoves, tents, large coolers and separate truck rentals and transportation expenses.
if 4 guys share the cost of a 4x4 truck rental and fuel costs it reduces the total personal individual cost significantly, and you damn sure don,t need 4 separate, coolers, tents and stoves packed into a truck.
if you spend time at any local outdoor 100 yard or longer rifle range, you can rather easily strike up a conversation with the guys you observe that seem to be the type of people you see, and start up a conversation with,that you personally,
feel comfortable talking to about hunting and rifles, and maybe past hunting trips, once you get to know them better you might broach the subject of meeting regularly at the range and possibly going on local hunts, well before you actually start plans for a much more extensive time and cash intensive, out of state big game hunting trip, where you might be spending a good deal of time together, or dependent on some guy you don,t really know that well.
youll certainly want too weed out the guys that are not willing to help set up camp, back pack out each others game, and share expenses way before you make an expensive out of state big game hunt together.
finding a hunting partner is a time intensive process and your not going to find the ideal partner easily, my last hunting partner I had for 30 plus years had a wife that was a total bitch, she saw hunting trips as a plot for him to get out from under her thumb/control for 10 days a year (SO DID HE TO TELL THE TRUTH)
but he would pull his weight, and we would both share all work and expenses equally.
Yes we all make mistakes and your sure to find guys that talk a great game but won,t lift a finger to help around camp or help dress out or pack out your elk yet expect you to help with transport and care of theres, or agree to share gas and other expenses equally but once on the trip don,t do crap.
youll also want to get a detailed written list of what is expected in shared expenses, chores, and an agreement that any truck you rent gets fully insured or break-downs on the trip expenses will be equally shared.
stupid disagreements can cause hard feelings, I remember on one trip we got a damaged tire , that had to be replaced,and one of the five guys on the trip did not want to chip in on the cost of the new tire (because he was not driving when it happened) obviously that was the last trip he was allowed on in our club.(the 25% of the cost to replace the ruined tire, or in that case $37 was all but meaningless, to all of us, but the "SCREW YOU ! THATS YOU PROBLEM! "
attitude was NOT!)
when your on a hunting trip everyone must work to make things run smoothly and if something breaks we all work to get it repaired, if someone has an elk down in some steep canyon , we all work to back pack it out. and at least in my group the guy shooting the elk naturally keeps the bulk of the meat and antlers but about 1/6-to-1/4 of the meat from any elk gets divided too the other members, so if lets say 3 of 4 guys get an elk on a given trip, the one un-sucessful hunter still gets some elk steaks
each of our personal experiences accumulate over time and each while probably significant different has a profound effect on what we personally see as the ideal equipment list , and colors our choices.
I prefer to hunt out of a back pack, think mountain man, tactics with very limited minimal but better more modern equipment choices
most of my fellow elk hunters in my group think I'm at least a marginal masochist, because I will almost always, leave camp and am perfectly comfortable under conditions many feel are not tolerable.
personally I want to cover ground , but leave no trace I was there, I select a light flexible but totally durable back pack, minimal equipment,
a fairly powerful rifle like a 375 H&H or 340 WBY a 22lr revolver,a kukri, and a -10F rated sleeping bag , and a parka and poncho, a couple 2 ltr bottle canteens a few tools, mres, and think little of spending 3-4 days away from camp.
if your not afraid of getting lost,, not all that concerned with having more than one meal a day, not worried about spending nights sleeping sitting against , or laying under, a large over hanging conifer, tree,
even if the temps drop and your waking up under a foot of fresh snow, miles from your truck, I can totally enjoy the hunt..
too many guys are convinced they must be back in camp at dark, too many guys in my opinion think they must have a hot meal and a camp fire.
I cover a good deal of carefully pre-selected, terrain, but I don,t travel fast, Im just persistent, I really don,t care where I am at dawn or dusk, I just want to find a decent elk,
I've never been all that concerned with huge antlers but yeah Id prefer to shoot something impressive just like most of you.
this style of hunt is obviously not that popular as only a few of they guys Ive hunted with wanted to repeat the hunts even when I'm successful most years, AT least 50% of the trips in at least getting a decent mule deer or elk.

 

[T-Test]

one of the keys to reducing individual expenses is sharing equipment and transportation expenses it makes no sense to have each person , purchase and pack shared equipment like stoves, tents, large coolers and separate truck rentals and transportation expenses.
if 4 guys share the cost of a 4x4 truck rental and fuel costs it reduces the total personal individual cost significantly, and you damn sure don,t need 4 separate, coolers, tents and stoves packed into a truck.
if you spend time at any local outdoor 100 yard or longer rifle range, you can rather easily strike up a conversation with the guys you observe that seem to be the type of people you see, and start up a conversation with,that you personally,
feel comfortable talking to about hunting and rifles, and maybe past hunting trips, once you get to know them better you might broach the subject of meeting regularly at the range and possibly going on local hunts, well before you actually start plans for a much more extensive time and cash intensive, out of state big game hunting trip, where you might be spending a good deal of time together, or dependent on some guy you don,t really know that well.
youll certainly want too weed out the guys that are not willing to help set up camp, back pack out each others game, and share expenses way before you make an expensive out of state big game hunt together.
finding a hunting partner is a time intensive process and your not going to find the ideal partner easily, my last hunting partner I had for 30 plus years had a wife that was a total bitch, she saw hunting trips as a plot for him to get out from under her thumb/control for 10 days a year (SO DID HE TO TELL THE TRUTH)
but he would pull his weight, and we would both share all work and expenses equally.
Yes we all make mistakes and your sure to find guys that talk a great game but won,t lift a finger to help around camp or help dress out or pack out your elk yet expect you to help with transport and care of theres, or agree to share gas and other expenses equally but once on the trip don,t do crap.
youll also want to get a detailed written list of what is expected in shared expenses, chores, and an agreement that any truck you rent gets fully insured or break-downs on the trip expenses will be equally shared.
stupid disagreements can cause hard feelings, I remember on one trip we got a damaged tire , that had to be replaced,and one of the five guys on the trip did not want to chip in on the cost of the new tire (because he was not driving when it happened) obviously that was the last trip he was allowed on in our club.(the 25% of the cost to replace the ruined tire, or in that case $37 was all but meaningless, to all of us, but the "SCREW YOU ! THATS YOU PROBLEM! "
attitude was NOT!)
when your on a hunting trip everyone must work to make things run smoothly and if something breaks we all work to get it repaired, if someone has an elk down in some steep canyon , we all work to back pack it out. and at least in my group the guy shooting the elk naturally keeps the bulk of the meat and antlers but about 1/6-to-1/4 of the meat from any elk gets divided too the other members, so if lets say 3 of 4 guys get an elk on a given trip, the one un-sucessful hunter still gets some elk steaks
each of our personal experiences accumulate over time and each while probably significant different has a profound effect on what we personally see as the ideal equipment list , and colors our choices.
I prefer to hunt out of a back pack, think mountain man, tactics with very limited minimal but better more modern equipment choices
most of my fellow elk hunters in my group think I'm at least a marginal masochist, because I will almost always, leave camp and am perfectly comfortable under conditions many feel are not tolerable.
personally I want to cover ground , but leave no trace I was there, I select a light flexible but totally durable back pack, minimal equipment,
a fairly powerful rifle like a 375 H&H or 340 WBY a 22lr revolver,a kukri, and a -10F rated sleeping bag , and a parka and poncho, a couple 2 ltr bottle canteens a few tools, mres, and think little of spending 3-4 days away from camp.
if your not afraid of getting lost,, not all that concerned with having more than one meal a day, not worried about spending nights sleeping sitting against , or laying under, a large over hanging conifer, tree,
even if the temps drop and your waking up under a foot of fresh snow, miles from your truck, I can totally enjoy the hunt..
too many guys are convinced they must be back in camp at dark, too many guys in my opinion think they must have a hot meal and a camp fire.
I cover a good deal of carefully pre-selected, terrain, but I don,t travel fast, Im just persistent, I really don,t care where I am at dawn or dusk, I just want to find a decent elk,
I've never been all that concerned with huge antlers but yeah Id prefer to shoot something impressive just like most of you.
this style of hunt is obviously not that popular as only a few of they guys Ive hunted with wanted to repeat the hunts even when I'm successful most years, AT least 50% of the trips in at least getting a decent mule deer or elk.

Last edited: A moment ago

Kinda like finding a wife. You just don't marry them and have to split everything. Next time, just shoot the chump with an odd bullit that you have just for such occasions and leave him for the bears to clean up. Just don't tell the others what happened.

I hate cheapskates!!Pull your own weight collectively or die, NO SNIVELING!!!!

 

[Grumpy]

the costs for licences keep increasing every year, and are already far higher than most people are willing to pay, we used to have no trouble finding 6-8 members in our elk hunting club,
here in Florida, willing to drive out to Colorado and pick up 2-3 more that choose to fly out, and get picked up at the airport on hunts.
as prices on licences increased the number of people willing to cough up the cash to hunt has dropped to 2-3 a year.
most guys now take the trip every 2nd or third year, and its all due to the cost increase not a lack of interest

 

[Ernest Shaw]

I like hunting as much as the next guy and I used to live in CO for eight years. You'd better be in good shape if you're going it on foot, even elk hunting with horses is a fair amount of work. I prefer small game, something I can handle by myself because basically I don't like busting my hump and calling it relaxing. My idea of a big game hunt is one with a guide that does most of the work and guarantees results or the next year is on them. Fat chance of finding that, at least in my price range. If I was going to CO to hunt I'd be looking to get hooked up with an antelope with a bow. Suppose to be good eating, flatter terrain and still a hunt to remember.