getting started in the car hobby

grumpyvette · Oct 3, 2008

Im 75 and look it!,
I remember ALMOST all the mistakes I and FRIENDS MADE and what WORKED TOO!
(plus I cheat I keep notes and records on ALMOST all of the engines and cars Ive built, or worked on! over 45 plus years.) Ive come bye most of the scars and info by experience and watching closely, both my own and others experiences

your certainly not alone in having been a bit confused at times,
were ALL ignorant to these factors and how they interact in the beginning,
but IF you keep reading links and taking notes, and asking a few questions,
things will eventually become much clearer,
and you'll get a better grasp on all the concepts and how they interact
(compression,
bore to stroke ratios,
rocker ratios,
valve spring load rates,
cam timing,
air flow, through heads, & intake,
and header exhaust scavenging
lubrication,
bearing cooling,
valve train control,
fluid pressures and cooling,
ignition timing, etc.)+
I'm sure if you do a few search's on this web site you'll find lots of threads and sub linked info

btw
youll eventually find dozens of engine builds on the internet, it may take you a few years,
but you'll eventually pick up on the fact ,that the vast majority of those internet engine build's intentionally just skip over or ignore a great many of the assembly processes, like the better valves, roller rockers, valve springs, port work, extensive block machine work, and don't mention they used, upgraded pistons ,rings, oil pan, ETC.
or related costs you'll be incurring, to duplicate the results they claim,
or the whole link is designed to sell some part or brand of parts, and they darn sure won,t point out your options or the associated costs and required machine work related to and mandatory in most cases to build that engine

heres some advice!
READ THROUGH THIS LINK
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/
you ABSOLUTELY NEED A SHOP MANUAL FOR YOUR CAR,YEAR,MAKE,MODEL
http://www.helminc.com/helm

If there's a Corvette club in your area , JOIN IT,!
if theres a hotrodders club, JOIN IT,!
you don,t need to like all the members,.......odds are good that about 30% know far less than you do,....or are no help at all, ....30% are much more skilled,......than you are, but your there to share skills and knowledge, LEARN FROM THEM, and HELP, become familiar with the tools, take the time, and help each other, its a two way street, don,t expect help if your not willing to help others,etc.

ask some of the members for suggestions and help and BE WILLING TO HELP WITH THEIR PROBLEMS, ITS A LEARNING PROCESS
your bound to find good contacts that will be helpful and a few total jerks you'll want to totally avoid in any group, but don,t let the jerks dis-swade you from getting the benefits and making the contacts you need!

thats a valid suggestion.....you may also want to go to the local tracks DRAG RACE AND CIRCLE TRACK carry a large pad and pen and ask for contacts, clubs,suppliers,club info, etc. make friends and ask the faster guys with the better looking cars , what machine shops and garages/mechanics they would suggest, when you get in over your head. in many cases they will know who the scam artists and rip off garages are and who does good dependable work at reasonable rates, but its been my experience that the best thing you can do is join a local hot rodders or corvette club and between the members contacts and your own resources, YOU will be able to do , and should do,most work your self with some help and knowledge from the guys you make contacts with, in your local clubs, no one but YOU will do QUALITY work and take the time on the details like YOU will on YOUR CORVETTE

keep in mind that theres very few things a decent machine shop and a semi skilled corvette owner with a few friends can,t easily fix, ESPECIALLY if they are willing too take the effort too research the problem , then adjust or replace the parts that are causing the problem, theres nothing mystical or really difficult, but you'll need to know what your doing, and what needs testing and or replacing and that may take research or some investment in tools and learning test procedures, don,t be in awe, theres not a darn thing you can,t learn to do!
youll need basic mechanics tools and having 4 good 12 ton jack stands.
it helps a great deal if you take the time and effort to find a trust worthy and reasonably priced local machine shop , and trust me when I say this is critical, and yes, the machinist will seem to point out endless things that should be done to increase durability, or just allow proper component function,and a good machinist will try to guide you in component selection to help avoid mis-matched parts and low quality parts being used, yes quality parts and machine work, ALWAYS COST more than you may expect them too!
this whole forum.. is installed and maintained to make it easy for both the beginners and the very experienced hot rodders to find, or post information regarding various car and engine related subjects, youll find threads generally have links to related info,
no your not having anything extraordinary happen,
if your building your first engine and running into quite a few problems ,
with the assembly process or sloppy machine shop work!
slapping something together vs
"BUILDING AN ENGINE CORRECTLY "
are vastly different concepts
I look back on the first few engines I built when I was about 17,
and I'm amazed they even ran.
I had never heard of ring gaps,
yet in-spite of that the cars engine started and ran.
A great deal of the content in this whole web sites based
on the idea that readers can benefit from reading about how too ,
avoiding the expensive mistakes many of us older geezers made in the past,
and learning how things should have been done correctly
theres no possible way that I can know each particular problems cause, or suggest the best possible parts choice, or process to fix it, in every case ,unless you post detailed info and perhaps clear pictures. so I try to make it far easier to find answers to the more common problems and questions.
I try to give a good over view on how things work, how they can be tested and what commonly fails.
or I try to provide links to related sources to make your search for information related to any subject covered both easy to find and as extensive as you care to push into your research. I've been building engines and racing for 45 plus years and while I have done many things.
I've built well over a 170 plus engines in 45 plus years , but keep in mind thats only 2-4 engines a year most years, Im always learning and looking to learn from others in this hobby ,so if you can add useful links or information or just as questions to clarify an answer or question you read on the site,to clear up a question or find an answer too the info please do so.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=34924

and a decent floor jack, and some car club friends sure helps, if you have SAFE AND STURDY ,easy access under the car maintenance and repairs are easier to do!
Ill add these tips
the most valuable tool you can acquire is as broad a selection of valid information, on exactly how and why things work in your car,s engine, drive train , and suspension , as a reference base to work from, and acquiring a good set of testing and measuring tools to verify and test with

http://carclubhunter.org/states/florida-car-clubs.htm

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/should-you-buy-bare-or-assembled-heads.534/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-basics.3733/#post-30179

(1) do EXTENSIVE research FIRST, before....... buying parts.... or starting a modification, that INCLUDES making a detailed parts list and researching , the sources, cost, manuals etc. IE FIND OUT whats necessary to do the job, and what results you'll expect before you start

(2) ITS a HUGE advantage to have the correct tools, things like engine cranes, diagnostic test equipment, welders,lifts, etc. may seem like a big expense that's not directly moving your project forward, but there NECESSARY in some cases and ALWAYS make the project go faster and easier than trying to do without them.

(3) work SAFELY, if you could get hurt doing something, chances are very good that you will eventually find out exactly WHY you should have done it the safe rather than the fast/easy way, if you don,t think it thru and use the correct tools and precautions

(4)ITs almost ALWAYS better to have several friends help, on a project, having two or more guys thinking things thru improves your chances of getting it done correctly and safely,and keep in mind ,its always best to do your projects after helping a more experienced guy do something similar on his car so you have some experience doing it, thus be ready and available to help your buddies within their projects and don,t avoid helping so you won,t get dirty, or have some free time that's used on other guys cars vs yours...in the long run it pays big to help others

(5)ask questions and be sure you understand the answers, KNOWING what your doing before you start is a huge advantage

(6)take pictures, label wiring, put small parts in labeled ziploc bags and take notes, use the manuals, and internet, and if something won,t fit or looks wrong research rather than forcing it with a bigger hammer

now I got asked,
"what do you do, who do you call when your about to tackle a job you've never done before?"
now most guys sub out jobs to the dealer or a corvette shop when they get into areas they may not be familiar with,but I do ALL the work on my corvettes for TWO good reasons, first I could NEVER afford the shop rates and I can NEVER trust the quality of work many shops do, now ILL be the VERY FIRST GUY IN LINE to ADMIT Im in WAY over my head at times! but Ive always been able to research the processes, tools, and skills and do the work, or find someone too teach me the skills eventually, you'll NEVER learn new stuff if your not willing to tackle new projects and get in way over your current skill level....besides it USUALLY requires buying LOTS OF new tools and meeting new friends so you can,t hardly lose!

IF you take this advice seriously youll save ALOT of time and money

DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR
buy these books, FIRST it will be the best money you ever spent, read them, and you will be miles ahead of the average guy. youll save thousands of dollars and thousands of hours once youve got a good basic understanding of what your trying to do!

http://www.rehermorrison.com/rmEngineBook.htm

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html

how to assemble an engine basics on video

http://www.racingjunk.com/category

[b]these books will be useful[/b]
http://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Your- ... 1557880298

http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Small-Blo ... 88408995X/

http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Small-Blo ... 95&sr=1-13

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=845&p=1281&hilit=trailer#p1281

HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Perform...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195231793&sr=1-1

JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines

http://www.amazon.com/John-Lingenfe...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195231760&sr=1-1

SMOKEY YUNICK,S POWER SECRETS

http://www.amazon.com/Smokey-Yunick...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195231724&sr=1-1

How to Rebuild Small-Block Chevy Lt1/Lt4 Engines
http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Small-Block-Chevy-Engines-Hp1393/dp/1557883939/ref=pd_sim_b

I constantly see guys who get involved in mods to their cars who either don,t understand that things seldom go as planned or that even understand that even if you know what your doing that the suppliers and machine shops seldom work to your schedule, and guys who buy project cars with zero idea as to the parts they are getting in that car or their condition,or guys who then actually think they can use the car as transportation...yet still race the car on a moments notice

your at a distinct dis-advantage if you have zero idea what components were used in your engine, theres three routes to go,

(1) if it runs good just drive it and don,t worry about it

(2) you can disassemble the engine and carefully identify what you currently have so you know exactly what you have (see#1) and then if you want to make changes you know what needs changing and what you can keep

(3)find or buy a second engine or at least the major components, assemble it with a well thought thru plan, parts list and goal, while you drive the current combo(see#1) and once you have everything assembled with matched components you spend some long weekend swapping engines and drive train components, (this has the huge advantage that you have a fall back option if the new combo doesn,t meet your expectations as you can always return to the current combo in a single week ends work (see#1) yet you can potentially have a far more aggressive engine combo that kicks butt and takes names, and your not screwed for weeks or months at a time if something breaks if you race the car, and can make changes on your serious engine without truly compromising your cars value as transportation, and you can choose to keep or sell the expensive parts separately from or with the car should you ever decide to sell the vette.

Ive always suggested the THIRD option is the best, having at least two engines is the best route if your into tinkering and racing your corvette that's why I currently have six engines I own in the shop, in various con-figs, I can get the vette to perform as I choose simply by taking my time while I build, modify or test drive the corvettes optional engines as I build the test engine and swap it out for a few weeks or months of testing ,I can even rebuild or slightly change the basic transportation engine if I choose too while IM driving one of the other test engines, just remember one engine needs to stay pretty basic and dependable while on the other(S) you can let your imagination and budget run a muck as you see fit

yes theres two basic flaws to that option,
(1) YES ,you need a garage or place to store and work on the spare engine, and it helps tremendously to have a second car, (a small pick-up trucks ideal so you can transport parts to the machine shop easily, and get to work on days when the promised parts don,t arrive or the machine shop doesn,t get the work done as they assured you they would.)

(2)YES it takes a bit more money up front at first, but in the long run its almost always cheaper and easier on your wallet, and the vette spends more time actually in drivable condition rather than down waiting for parts or machine work to be done

learning new skills is a good thing, jump on in!
many new guys are reluctant to even try, the more complicated projects because of a realistic expectation that they may get in over their heads and not be able to get the car running again, Ive seen that reluctance many times.
having access to the internet and buying a shop manual and committing to the process of learning, the basics,buying a few basic tools is a necessary step.
joining at least two different hot rod or corvette clubs will help make the required contacts, in the hobby but you won,t truly learn much until you start offering to help other more experienced members on their projects, you'll learn a great deal helping the more experienced guys do the simple stuff like swapping injectors,or carbs, adjusting, rockers,welding exhaust systems, doing brake jobs, or replacing u-joints or tuning their cars, etc. but you won,t get the chance unless your willing to provide some free labor in most cases.
once you can hook up with a more experienced hot rodder who will act as a mentor you will seldom have major problems.
the question then becomes how to hook up, and where to find a mentor?

http://www.chatmag.com/topics/auto/hotrod.html
http://www.idavette.net/clubs.htm
grumpysperformance.com

I know! you've never done something and your afraid you'll mess it up,
EXAMPLE
the first time I looked over a TPI injection system I was very reluctant to start taking things apart, so as a hedge I took a dozen close up digital photos and labeled every connection with masking tape and a magic marker sharpie pen, I had no idea how the injector connectors were released and didn,t realize there was a spring retainer until Id got four removed, but after about the first dozen, I didn,t even bother looking any longer since things were so familiar.
EXAMPLE
the wife's MERCURY had the power seat control switch in the door go bad, I bought a new one,but I was very reluctant to disassemble the door panel, as I was sure ID screw it up!, but some careful inspection revealed it could easily be accessed and in 10 minutes I was done doing a job ID been hesitant to start for days.
theres a first time for nearly everything and you'll be surprised, in many cases you'll find you enjoy knowing how to do things better.....think back to how clumsy and hesitant you probably felt when you started dating,but learning new skills has its benefits

IF YOUR SMART youll buy parts and get a second engine built on a decent engine stand and assemble your hot rod engine project, taking your time and doing everything correctly rather than constantly pulling apart and mis -matching parts on the c4/lt4, its usually a good idea to have the stock original engine available for transportation as long as possible and available as a quickly swapped in replacement should the modified engine take a crap, or parts need machine work, etc.

THESE LINKS SHOULD HELP

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11026&p=48766#p48766

http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Small...39/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1325362601&sr=8-16

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=339&p=17657&hilit=started+hobby#p17657

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018&p=14885&hilit=engine+stand#p14885

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11026

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/back-in-the-past-vs-today.15043/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-for-truck-build-sbc-engine.12050/#post-57645

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ll-of-receipts-is-not-proof.10281/#post-46628

ID bet easily 10% of the corvettes ever sold were in some way related to guys building projects where they got in over their heads due to lack of knowledge or they got in temporary trouble financially wise, , many would still be with their previous owners if they could have swapped back the original engine while they worked out the glitches in the performance engine or had a daily driver until finances improved

grumpyvette · Apr 2, 2009

HAVING A SHOP MANUAL AND BEING FAMILIAR WITH THE TYPE OF ENGINE YOUR WORKING WITH HELPS
I can,t begin to tell you how many times I see work done that was rather obviously slapped together in the fastest and cheapest manor possible, it seems like if some repair can,t be done with an air ratchet and hammer in under 45 minutes its a project that's best avoided at most dealerships, now the worst stuff Is usually done in areas where its not really obvious, but leaving out or cross threading bolts or stripping threads and then ignoring the damage is common from what Ive seen, failure to firmly click / close electrical connector plugs, or seat modules is almost done like its based on a need of insuring return work in the near future.
now obviously not all dealerships or mechanics do crappy work, but IM amazed at the number of shops that are still in business that do so! or the shops that screw something up royally then with a strait face tell the customer, something like ("during the inspection, or repair process we found some extra problems, there were some stripped bolts, cracked components,or busted parts, that you'll need to replace, so were calling to say it going to cost an extra $300,-$1100, etc.")
at times it so darn obvious that the mechanic screwed up the part it virtually screams (IM AN INCOMPETENT IDIOT) when you look at the results but they still expect you to pay for their mistakes,or mis- diagnoses, a classic example is a buddies 70 GTO, he took it into a shop to get the fuel pump replaced, because it was not pumping fuel, the shop replaced the pump, charged him $300 and the car still would not run, they then suggested a new carb for $875, after the new carb didn,t change a darn thing he called me for advice, I told him Pontiac's were well known for the fuel pump eccentric on the cam coming loose over time, and it results in no fuel pressure, he mentioned that and the (mechanic) told him I was mistaken. well he had the car towed to my shop and he had spent $1175 for a repair on parts and labor
the problem was a loose eccentric and while I was in there I replaced the water pump and timing chain , at napa, for well under $120, he purchased the parts and I charged him $120 for labor, that cured the problem.

KNOWING WHAT YOUR DOING IS IMPORTANT, TO GETTING GOOD RESULTS!
no one knows everything about all models and years so it helps to have the correct procedures and info in a handy referace source,now you can get by with a HAYNES or CHILTONS manual, or something similar, but for detailed info, OWNING the CHEVY SHOP MANUAL FOR YOUR SPECIFIC CAR IS ALMOST MANDATORY!
I get asked frequently, "how did you know how to do that?"
well, EXPERIANCE plays a big roll, working on similar cars and engines helps, and the INTERNET is a good resource... but theres ALWAYS a big need for DETAILED REFERANCE MATERIAL, SPECIFICALLY MATCHING YOUR PARTICULAR CAR and if you have not yet invested in a SHOP MANUAL for the year make and model of you pride and joy muscle car your either not serious about your hobby, or most likely NOT A SERIOUS HOT RODDER! I constantly see guys SCREWING up installations, or adjustments,if you don,t know exactly what your doing, you need to either let the dealer do it and PRAY his mechanics are experianced and can read, OR..if your like ME, you would rather do it yourself and KNOW its been done correctly...
if your not aware, heres where to order them....

1-800-782-4356

http://helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?r=

your average shop manual may cost $100-$150 ONCE! but youll easily save far more than that in reduced time and screw ups in under a years time or in many cases on one job vs having the dealer do the work!

BTW PONTIAC FUEL PUMPS USUALLY COST UNDER $60

heres the ecentric

heres the bolt that on occasion comes loose

water pump--underr $50
timing set -UNDER $50
GASKETS $15

http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result....dule=&mscsid=BJUVXMALDJKB9GQ0THUFJ5LAKTTP9VS4

BUY a SHOP MANUAL, anytime you buy a used car the next purchase needs to be the correct SHOP MANUAL and A V.O.M. METER and it sure won,t hurt to join several online forums and join at LEAST two local car clubs, simply because YOU WILL EVENTUALLY REQUIRE HELP or INFO

:laughing:
if you are a member of at least two local car clubs chances are good that at least one or two members are knowledgeable and helpful

NEVER DIVE HEAD FIRST INTO A PROJECT WITHOUT DOING SOME BASIC RESEARCH ON PARTS AVAILABILITY AND PRODUCT SUPPORT, BUT IF YOUR REALLY DETERMINED ALMOST ANYTHING CAN BE MADE TO WORK IF YOU WANT TO THROW ENOUGH TIME AND MONEY INTO THE PROJECT,WHEN YOU CAN,T DEPEND ON THE CAR TO JUMP INTO IT ANY TIME AND DRIVE IT ON A COAST TO COAST TRIP ITS BASICALLY NOT A STREET CAR, so keep that in mind during the parts selection process if you depend on the car for transportation

grumpyvette · Jul 19, 2009

now the question always comes up as to where you get the cash to finance the hobby, and doing related repairs is a good way to gain experience and get more tools,
finding the cash is a huge problem but in many cases you can build your skills and tool inventory if you let it be known your willing to do what ever odd auto related jobs you know how to do, now that might be brake jobs, or oil changes or water pump replacements etc. the key is to only charge a minimum charge so you get repeat business and to do an excellent job so word gets around your the guy to go to, look you might only be able to charge $8-$10 bucks an hour to change oil and a filter, and inspect or replace fan belts , do tune ups,replace defective hoses,, or replace water pumps etc. (CUSTOMER SUPPLIES ALL PARTS/MATERIALS, and THOSE PARTS MUST BE NEW and YOU WILL SELECT THEM) but if you start sticking that cash in car fund it will add up and you'll stay busy, and you'll gain experience, just be very sure everything your expected to do, the cost of parts and who supplies them is well documented in writing before you start with both parties signing the work agreement.
once word gets around you work reasonably cheap and do a good job the money tends to trickle in. having a welder helps, frequently, to do simple repairs on speed bump damaged oil pans for example
(pull them BEFORE WELDING, and clean and paint them before you re-install them)
replacing a water pump could take 3-4 hours or a full day, but the $40-$90 you charge will be significantly less than a normal repair shop, would, just be very careful about the jobs you accept, so guy with a leaky radiator needs to know the costs of a new radiator and the time it takes before you get involved, you don,t want to have put 4 hours into a job and then have the guy decide it cost to much to repair or that he wants to go else ware for the repair work.
if you can make $40-$90 a day on weekends your hardly going to get rich but you can finance modest projects and build your tool inventory
I'm always amazed at how few guys (even myself ) who really thought things through when they first start in the hobby, about how exactly you access that power curve)
think it through, what are you doing at 2500rpm-4500 rpm, your daily driving or maybe on the highway or maybe passing a different car on the freeway
you rarely have to depress the throttle more than 2/3rds to drive like that, and it only requires about 40hp to maintain cruise speed, at 65 mph in most cars
you'll barely be using any of the potential torque or that power curve in use if your daily driving on the streets in daily transportation,
50-70 hp volks wagons can cruise effortlessly at 70mph, when you want to access that power curve your using the car in (performance mode)
I.E. your street racing or impressing a buddy while passing a car or punching it on the freeway on ramp, or reducing tire tread to expensive smoke in some parking lot, (where's the tach then??) (its in that 4500rpm-6200rpm power band)where you'll like having the power, you don't need nor can you use even 1/2 the potential torque either combo provides at 1/4-2/3rds throttle so in that power range added torque is far less use full, unless your big on throwing gravel and spinning tires from a rolling start at a stop sign.... if you want to smoke the treads off you'll push the throttle down to full on the floor... look at the tach....
(where's the tach then??) (its in that 4500rpm-6200rpm power band)where you'll like having the power.
as RICK, his engine in about a 2000 lb T-bucket produces impressive power but he can briskly accelerate using just 1/2 throttle, if the rpms hit 4500rpm plus, he's in for what could be a basically aim down the highway and hold on ride., sure he has nearly or a bit over 500 hp, but he can barely use it, and rarely can use it if using the car as transportation vs racing.
while its true you may only have 400ft lbs and 250 hp at 2500rpm-3500rpm where you spend 90% of your drive time, you'll rarely use 2/3rds of that power available while you drive, even briskly drive, on the streets, and if racing the rpms on the tach will be noticeably higher,
remember 50-70 hp volks wagons can cruise effortlessly at 70mph,

the problem, some guys have is they forget about the lower rpm driveability issues and select a cam or other components that are designed to produce impressive PEAK power but severely compromise lower rpm driveability, that's not the case with any of the street/strip, non-race combos discussed here!

as always every choice made is a compromise some where either in your time, wallet or the cars performance or durability

grumpyvette · Dec 26, 2009

step one when you buy a corvette, or any new performance car is to buy the correct matching factory shop manual
and look around carefully at how, expensive and hard it will be to locate replacement body parts, drive train and other components, you may eventually NEED
next step is looking up and joining the local hot rod or corvette club, but be prepared to find not all members helpful or knowledgeable, its similar to joining a local corvette club from what Ive seen, about 60% of the members like drinking, club cruises, waxing cars and b.s. etc, and don,t know how to do more than oil changes if that, about 20%-40% do occasionally do minor work on their own cars, and about 10%-20% actually help other members, and do major repairs ,you just need to find the 10% hard core that are willing to get greasy that have skills and get in with that rather limited crowd

it may not have all the answers but its a great place to start looking because once you have a shop manual, youve got at least some reliable info and usually some diagrams
next youll need a timing light, vacuum gauge and a V.O.M. meter
and a code reader sure will help
for example,
ILL assume its a 1992 corvette here, but some time with the sites search feature will provide you with similar info on many cars
http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.as ... itemtype=B

heres a few threads to get you started
step TWO
and in the ideal world this is done BEFORE you buy the car
youll want to put the car up on a lift and carefully inspect for oil leaks, brakes and suspension condition, your cars frame condition, rust, and badly done repairs

STEP THREE
find and join a local hot rod or corvette club, and yes IM aware that 70% of the members are likely to be less than helpful, or annoying morons, but theres usually a significant number of helpful and knowledgeable guys that will prove very useful, if you start offering to help them on their projects because they have the skills , experience and machine shop and parts source contacts you need on your projects

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-48766

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...w-someone-who-owns-an-older-muscle-car.13736/

I frequently have talked to guys who purchased a older corvette or muscle car that was someone elses project car, who after working on the car either express a common thought that the previous owner(S) were total incompetent morons, or "back yard bubba" mechanics at best!
they can,t figure out why the car won,t run correctly or how the previous owner has connected or wired up many components and after a few weeks they start talking about passing on their previous (SCORE) to the next (SUCKER).
they get frustrated, and basically can,t figure out why something won,t work, well I hate to point this out but in most cases when your working on a 10-50 year old car thats had SEVERAL previous owners your almost certainly going to be starting from a car in that condition, RELAX while its almost a given you'll get frustrated at times its also almost 100% certain that if you look at each individual system, or component in each system and find out what its does and how its supposed to work, and find out how to test that component or system, you can get it functioning as it was designed to work OR better, yes it takes some research, some test tools and a factory shop manual is almost MANDATORY
many guys get totally confused of upset chasing cooling issues or the EFI (electronic fuel injection) or oil pressure, or have problems with valve train clearance , or geometry in the the engine because of what the previous owner did, or simple stuff like fixing oil leaks, or even vibrations become a problem!
Well its all common and the basic truth is its part of the hobby, so if your not into resolving problems your 100% sure to get a bit crazy, dealing with things you didn,t cause and have a bit of difficulty correcting theres NOTHING on a corvette or muscle car that time, research, some basic testing and a few basic tools in the hands of a persistent mechanically inclined installer/mechanic or average hot rodder, that can,t be corrected, adjusted or replaced if necessary

sure its frustrating when the car won,t run correctly and your not sure if its ignition, related, low or no fuel, carb, tuning, injectors, faulty sensors incorrect valve timing, compression, or maybe a clogged catalytic converter, or a bad ground or faulty electrical wiring or a vacuum leak, etc..........but if you RELAX, and take each potential area of engine operation individually and verify its correct function before moving to the next set of tests and verify each step in the process and take a few notes you'll find the cause and the cure, it just takes time testing and research, you'll generally start with taking a compression test, reading the spark plugs setting the ignition timing, checking voltages and fuel flow and pressure, you'll want to check trouble codes and verify the valves are adjusted correctly, the carb or injectors function etc. but taken a step at a time it won,t be nearly as overwhelming and its just a logical process, sure you'll need a few meters, tools and gauges, but theres NOTHING that's BEYOND most guys ability's, and once you find the cause of your problems in many cases you'll be amazed at how small things like faulty sensors or vacuum leaks or badly adjusted components can cause you so much grief, or how easy that was to correct ONCE you found the cause

hot rodding should really be called... the art of isolating , testing and repairing or improving the function or automotive related components, in a logical , well thought thru process designed to make your blood pressure go up and give you sudden urges cuss and to throw tools

shop manuals, if you can get one do so

trouble codes, if your cars modern enough to be computer equipped these HELP at times

sensors and locations

tuning & adjusting

https://garage.grumpysperformance.c...place-that-engine-questions.16141/#post-97507

grumpyvette · Nov 5, 2011

Let me give you a bit of hard won wisdom that took me decades to fully understand,... if your ever going to build a well thought thru car & engine combo youll be happy with its takes planing and a consistent effort and sustained budget allocation to completing the project and you need both the tools and a place to work, you need to do the research and NOT change goals every few weeks or buy random BARGAIN parts

yes it may take you several days to read thru the links and many sub links, it will save you hundreds of dollars and months of work so take the time!

(1) decide on exactly what you want when your finished and think thru a reasonable budget and time frame
this means if you really want a big block corvette don,t waste time and money building a 350 sbc in a caprice just because its available and cheap.

(2) have a place to work and get a decent engine stand to work on,you don,t need much more than a small tool selection and space for an engine stand with an engine on it and a plastic tarp , many tools can be rented or borrowed, but you do need to do the required research and buy and correctly assemble the correct matched parts
(you can always sell it when your done if this was a one time project)

(3) have a second transportation vehicle or build your performance engine slowly over time correctly,and separately is by far the better route here!
constant minor changes and parts up grades resulting in miss matched components to the primary transportation vehicle ALWAYS eventually causes you problems

(4) don,t buy parts that don,t match your goal just because you get a SCREAMING DEAL on the parts PRICE,...ESPECIALLY USED PARTS

(5) don,t forget the IMPROVED , BRAKES, DRIVE TRAIN GEARING, SUSPENSION,TIRES AND COOLING SYSTEM, ELECTRICAL AND LUBRICATION UPGRADES THAT WILL BE REQUIRED BEFORE you install the new high performance engine your building

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5078

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... ewall.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... index.html

http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /A9-P1.htm

your budget and skill level will have a great deal to do with your choices and what you should realistically look into building, a supercharged 383-396-406-427 small block or the newer LS engines series is an option of course and if you have deep pockets, you can just buy a assembled crate engine

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... rsal.shtml

http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/427_realstreet.asp

or if your into killer big blocks
http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/598_ ... owdeck.asp

http://ohiocrank.com/enginespage1.html

http://www.dougherbert.com/crate-engine ... -1-2a.html

bob · Nov 6, 2011

One thing that always makes me a bit crazy is that every time I do the research and decide on exactly what parts I need, I print out a list with part numbers and costs listed and just about the time I'm ready to buy the parts I find an article that is announcing some brand new cylinder head or intake manifold, block or other major component that makes the older parts seem like a waste of cash
if you decide you want vortec heads, that flow 240cfm, you read about the 210cc air flow research heads that make the vortec heads look pathetic, that flow 310cfm,if you decide to buy the AFR 210cc , you'll find that PROFILER or BRODIX makes a cylinder head that makes that head look anemic, heads that flow 320 cfm then theres 18 degree heads that flow 370cfm, so now your convinced to buy the 18 degree heads,until you find out about DARTS 9 degree heads that flow 415 cfm...it never ends and the cost increases pretty much duplicate the flow rate increases
learning to correctly TIG weld with a decent TIG welder will open your eyes,
too huge field of options, and a myriad of potential and until then un-dreamed of ideas
owning a decent MIG and TIG welder and a heavy duty drill press or better yet a MILL and lathe ,
leaves you open to the potential to build a huge assortment of custom, & unique and in most case's,
project's with a great deal more performance potential than your limited too buying components off the shelf.
http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/show ... pter=10324

http://www.trickflow.com/articles/18degree_hp/

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... ewall.html

grumpyvette · Mar 27, 2012

Id bet 70% or more of the guys selecting performance cams for the first engine combo they build ,do so a bit like one of my friends (larry) always did in the 1960s, he would call ISKY, CRANE and CROWER get the tech guys to tell him the cam specs from each manufacturer after telling them about his car and then select the cam with the most duration and lift after comparing the cams from each manufacturer, that would have been BAD ENOUGH, but he also tended to tell the tech guys he had expensive aftermarket components he read about in magazine articles that he "INTENDED TO BUY LATER" not what he truly had on hand currently, the result was that I gained a great deal of experience learning about correcting valve train problems when either parts failed or the car ran like crap!
the truth is that the vast majority of guys select a performance cam for the 5% of the time they may race the car rather than the 95% of the time they spend driving the car, then wonder why it never seems to run correctly

related info

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5466&p=16337&hilit=ssh350#p16337

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5078

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82

if you post all the info about your engine and drive train I can help you a good deal, Id also suggest checking with several cam manufacturers and reading the links, where most guys go wrong is that they assume that if a certain cam ran reasonably well in some magazine article or in a friends car that that same cam will run great in their engine, the fact that the compression, displacement, intake, carb ,head flow, exhaust back pressure , the cars weight, rear gear, converter,stall speed, fuel octane, valve spring clearance, valve spring load rates, rocker ratio, and port cross sectional area, etc. are all wildly different never enters the discussion.
hanging out with LARRY described in the links when I was younger proved to be very educational, LARRY made dozens of serious mistakes, in fact it got to the point I discuss intended mods with larry and if he seemed rather enthusiastic about the mod I knew it was a huge RED FLAG, indicating a good deal more research was mandatory

grumpyvette · Apr 6, 2012

If your just getting started in the hot rod hobby don,t jump in without thinking thru your options, chevy, mopar,ford, pontiac,buick, caddy all made good engines, and while its very true that chevy parts tend to cost a bit less on average there are many good parts available for the others so look around, and don,t just assume you want to build a small block chevy, theres also the big block, the LS series and a dozen other choices.
now your bound to have some guy tell you the chevy sb engines lighter weight and cheaper to build, and while that might be true in many cases, but a good deal depends on your budget and access to parts, if your starting from scratch and can locate a 500 caddy or 440 mopar engine at a good price, that might be a better choice
guys will tell you a big block engines heavier and thats true, but the extra displacement has advantages, that test has been done several times and the results tend to favor the BIG BLOCK, even thou in theory the sbc weights less the fact is that the better head flow and torque curve the big block produced usually resulted in the big block combo being faster
that extra 120 lbs the big block weights looks significant until you realize that the 120lb difference in your average 3400lb car is about a 3% change.
Id also point out that up to about 450hp the small blocks generally cheaper to build and above about 600hp there little question that the big block tends to be more durable, but theres a third option, the newer LS series potentially allows you to make 500plus or so hp cheaper that either of the previous engines, provided you can get a good salvage yard donor engine at a good price.
the engine you select should depend on your true goals and budget, don,t get locked into thinking you musty build a sbc, that tunnel vision can cost you, I recently assembled a 440 mopar for a guy, it was a budget build using almost all stock components, he had a goal of 400 hp, we easily made a bit more and it cost him less than $3500 to do it as he found a 1970s motor home in some guys yard,with a good 440 motor for sale that had a bad transmission and a crappy body for under $500, so he got a 440 mopar and a dana 60 rear for $500

most American V8 engines can make 1.2 -1.4 horsepower per cubic inch with the correct parts
think about that a 350 SBC stroked to 383 can easily make 460 hp, but stroke a 454 to 496 which is not all that difficult and 600 hp is easily reached

do some research, look around the site, theres a ton of useful info.
spending a couple days reading links and sub links could save you over a $3000 and a couple months work

you really should get these books and read them before going any further, it will help a good deal

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...5079777/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-1234339-0571324

1557882169.01._PE30_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...gy_img_2/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

0912656042.01._PE30_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...gy_img_2/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

0895861755.01._PE30_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t..._books_1/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

1884089208.01._PE30_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t..._books_3/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

1557883572.01._PE30_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_2/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

0760302030.01._PE_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

INVESTING THE TIME AND EFFORT IN PURCHASING AND READING A FEW BOOKS WILL BE VERY COST EFFECTIVE

http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/en ... ine-block/
"

SMALL BLOCK REFERENCE BOOKS YOULL WANT
start by buying these books and watching the video

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html

http://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards...8&qid=1456194032&sr=8-5&keywords=DAVID+VIZARD
HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD
.

JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines
http://www.amazon.com/Lingenfelter-...=1456193940&sr=8-1&keywords=JOHN+LINGENFELTER

http://www.amazon.com/Smokey-Yunick...2&sr=8-1&keywords=smokey+yunick+power+secrets

http://www.amazon.com/Chevrolet-Rac...ords=The-Chevrolet-Racing-Engine-Bill-Jenkins
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181&p=215#p215

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=5123

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html

http://www.amazon.com/Lingenfelter-Modi ... 55788238X/

grumpyvette · Nov 23, 2012

a lack of necessary tools, work space and/or time

" GRUMPY!
I,ve seen you suggest many times that people just dive in and work on their cars, I don't think it's that people don't realize the can make/modify parts to fit, or repair their cars if they get the skills and tools, It's more a lack of necessary tools, work space and/or time.
ITS mandatory that YOU as an engine builder be aware that theres a few machine shops that are run by scam artists willing , even happy to cheat the less informed customers, and the decepion and cost cutting saves them considerable money while basically providing you with a very inferior product at an inflated price.
IMPORTED parts from over seas being substituted for much more expensive, well known brand name components, DOES HAPPEN!
It helps your engine's potential durability tremendously, if you take the time and effort to verify that you have, and that if you have a machine shop do all or part of your engine assembly that they, actually had the quality components, you paid for installed in your engine, Ive had several machine shops try to pass off and install really crappy quality components in engines while charging top dollar for brand name parts.
now I'm sure that easily 70% -90% of the guys never bother to check what they got back from the machine shop for accurate machine work or that simple things like the bolts, studs and bearings , rings and gaskets the machine shop used during the engine assembly were actually the parts you paid for, but I know for a fact that less than honest shops don,t bat an eye over making a few bucks extra with this bait and switch B,S.
Ive seen connecting rods, main caps, studs rockers push rods pistons, piston rings, cranks and several other components being billed as name brand components and lesser quality parts actually installed!
there was a machine shop in Hollywood florida , that for decades was well known for this deceptive practice
example

well any of you gentlemen looking for anything in the way of new tools?
how about posting your wish lists , maybe someone knows where to get what you want at bargain prices

https://www.walmart.com/ip/0-6-Mach...1808&wl11=online&wl12=332344475&wl13=&veh=sem

https://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Tools-Precision-Hardened-Stainless/dp/B06VXC1FPL/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1512868725&sr=1-3&keywords=12"+dial+calipers

http://www.eastwood.com/professional-brake-tubing-flaring-tool.html

http://www.eastwood.com/tig200acdc.html

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-62191/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-67492

https://www.harborfreight.com/autom...sional-steel-floor-jack-super-duty-63183.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/20-ton-shop-press-32879.html

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66483

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66490

http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-mig-welder-175-amp-with-spool-gun.html

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sxt-8300gb/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-67438

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66514

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66480

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66520

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66838

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66787

a few tool related threads with sub links

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-hand-tools-to-buy.4069/#post-10827

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-tools-are-important.39/#post-47

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-52469

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-55314

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51823

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-degreeing.9010/#post-35474

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...all-tools-install-info.1479/page-2#post-35245

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/porting-can-help.462/

BUY A FEW BOOKS ON ENGINE REBUILDING AND PROPER ENGINE ASSEMBLY
AND READ THROGH THEM CAREFULLY,
ITS MONEY VERY WELL SPENT!

yes I know several people that just don,t want to either get involved or lack the tools ,and skills or desire to learn those skills, or acquire the required tools. yes I know several people that just write a check and have someone else do all the work on their car, I wish I had the option to do the same thing at times but most of the time even if I had bill gates checking account, Id want to be doing much of the work and having the knowledge to do that work.
now from my point of view a great deal of the satisfaction I get from owning and driving a performance car, is in knowing I built or can repair or modify most of the components that make it work, and if I don,t have the required tools or skills I make it a priority to acquire them.
yes I freely admit Ive spent much more on tools, my shop and gaining those skills and tools and that shop than it would have cost to have someone else build me the car Im still working on, but owning a car that someone else builds rather pointless in my opinion, anyone with a big bank balance could do that.
having someone else do the works a bit like watching PORN, you still appreciate whats going on but you would sure appreciate it more if YOU got to experience the job, "hands on" with you being involved with the process, rather than just watching whats being done!

Grumpy · Jul 27, 2015

Grumpy · Aug 7, 2015

Allen said:
Im seriously thinking about rebuilding a mild 350 sbc engine I purchased,from a neighbor who wrecked his mid 1988 chevy pick-up truck.
I bought the wreck for $200, as a source of a doner/project engine.
I might even go the 383 SBC route after reading several links,on this site.
The idea, would be too gain, a bit more power and durability while replacing my current cars engine, as it now has over 137k miles , and smokes a bit
(I assume worn rings or valve guides?)
so Id swap it out after the new replacement engines built!
any ideas

87vette81big · Aug 7, 2015

Time to put a few of my own back together Grumpy.
I have stock piled engines too.
Sell a few maybe.
Work on my big goal....new garage here.
Takes $ as you know.

Grumpy · Feb 20, 2016

the question of IF you should modify your car and if you do, how much too modify your car comes up a great deal, in this hobby and yeah! we all know guys that get way off course and screw up the car they were working on. But most of us also know guys that have produced or modified some cars, into something that are awe inspiring, we would love to own personally.

Id point out that you can get rather impressive power increases from the replacement of some of the more restrictive components , but to do it correctly you'll benefit a great deal from some careful and rather detailed research into both what your trying to accomplish and the results other people have gotten as they tried to do similar mods to similar cars.
you can do mods to the interior or the cars electronics , or computer controls that can measurably improve the cars looks and function.
keep in mind its a whole lot cheaper to learn from other peoples mistakes and learn what works from other peoples successes that go through a rather expensive and time intensive system of trial and error by testing the result YOU get from installing parts and that a few weeks of detailed research could rather easily save you many thousands of dollars in wasted effort .
Id also point out that a great deal of the cost youll encounter will be labor related if you don,t do the physical mechanical work yourself, and that more than a few machine shops are known to do expensive but sub par quality work, so avoiding them is part of the challenge you'll face modifying your car.
In short , knowing exactly what you want to accomplish, what parts will be required and exactly what will be involved in installing and adjusting them will be critical to having the car run like you intend it to and at a cost you can afford!
the last thing you want as a car is a combo of mis-matched or badly adjusted components , that won,t run correctly that might make the far less than dependable for the street if its your daily transportation.

Grumpy · Apr 19, 2016

If you think machine shops are going to cost you a great deal of time and money in this hobby, your correct that the more detail work you can do yourself,and the better your ability is to know the difference between quality machine work and slapped together parts ,and the less you have to trust some stranger that in many cases just doesn,t care how your engine project turns out,the more likely youll succeed.
that skill comes from EXPERIENCE, spending time RESEARCHING what needs to be done, why it needs to be done and HOW its done correctly and having a few basic tools so you can inspect and accurately measure machine work.
youll need a cheap but fairly sturdy basic engine stand to get the work off the floor,and being able to carefully inspect the components selected and used in the careful assembly process,sure reduces the chances of problems later,
being able to accurately measure machine work may not correct bad machine work but having the ability allows you to cut your losses and move to a shop producing far better quality before you waste a great deal of time and money having parts damaged or incorrectly machined , and that will in the long run save you a great deal on problems and cash.

Its up to the guy who assembles or builds an engine to verify that the machine work on any components been done correctly,
theres unfortunately a good percentage of machine shops that don,t employ people that have the skills and experience,
or the tooling to do the work correctly, or in some cases and desire or capacity to accurately measure the components accurately,
before and after precision machine works been done.
I'd bet 90% plus of the people who have a machine shop do precision work on any major engine component, like that
would have naturally assumed that the precision machine work was done correctly,
and simply assembled the engine without thinking a second about that work being done correctly.
it helps a great deal if you take the time and effort to find a trust worthy and reasonably priced local machine shop , and trust me when I say this is critical, and yes, the machinist will seem to point out endless things that should be done to increase durability, or just allow proper component function,and a good machinist will try to guide you in component selection to help avoid mis-matched parts and low quality parts being used, yes quality parts and machine work, ALWAYS COST more than you may expect them too!
this is one reason I strongly suggest most serious engine builders may want to have some precision,measuring tools,
and spend the time and effort to check that machine shop work you paid good money for, was in fact, done correctly ,
taking the time too verify the precision machine work was done correctly,
takes a good deal of the time required, in any engine build
(vs slapping parts together out of the box and wondering why it never quite runs up to your expectations)
and yes you probably could use the block in its current condition and find the engine runs,
and most people would never know the engines measurements were not correct or why the engine did not produce power to its full potential,
and the results might be so close that it would hardly matter ,too most car/engine owners.
but that engine block machine work ,being off specs, does not mean its been built correctly either

I bought several engine stands , my most used on looks like this but I added 4 8" casters, making it far easier to roll.

https://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-...hion-tire-swivel-caster-with-brake-61836.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51843

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-60187

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-68850

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-choice-and-living-with-your-decisions.15314/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/storing-a-spare-engine.614/#post-12734

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-engine-stand-mods-accesories.3724/#post-5018

related threads
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-68861

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-68651

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-59253

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-51146

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...arn-to-fix-the-car-body-and-mechanicals.9612/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-to-find-a-decent-machine-shop.800/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51843

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/machine-shop-sequencing.4460/#post-11720

YOU MIGHT BE AMAZED AT HOW VERSATILE a few tools are, and they don,t necessarily need to be top quality to get a decent engine built, and a great many of the more common tools are available on loan, from some auto parts stores, if you put down a refundable security deposit

a few basic tools and a good understanding of what your doing

the links and SUB links will help
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-3007

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...on-picking-a-shop-to-do-work.5053/#post-33138

LOOKING FOR A DECENT AUTO MACHINE SHOP, or BODY REPAIR, or CUSTOM SHOP??

the best route to take is by joining a local car club and talking to dozens of guys at the local car shows and rod runs and at the local tracks,
GO TO THE LOCAL TRACK, AND GO TO LOCAL CAR SHOWS<ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS, TALK TO LOTS OF PEOPLE, you'll eventually find out which machine shops AND BODY SHOPS do quality work and which do sloppy or slipshod work, or take money and never do the work correctly at times.
ALWAYS stamp your parts with your PH# number or some other ID and take clear detailed pictures and get signed receipts listed parts, dates,costs and expected work to be done and dates due and take a picture of the guy your talking to and get the receipt
look around the shop! if theres dozens of cars sitting outside , rusting, or stacks of greasy engines you probably don,t want your car joining them.
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tbucket-engine-project-dart-shp.3814/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-engine-stand-mods-accesories.3724/#post-9667

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-and-installing-connecting-rods-pistons.247/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51823

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...oven-facts-if-your-in-doubt.13051/#post-69824

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/machine-work-costs.3169/#post-8452

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/matching-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-to-look-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tips-on-building-a-383-sbc-stroker.428/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ty-thats-key-in-building-a-good-engine.11682/

When it comes down to the basics is , that,we ALL tend to run into the same basic issue,
and thats the fact that we don,t have enough of the ready cash to dump into a project,
to just buy a complete engine. SO, we have to carefully plan how to allocate our limited finances.
now for a few basics.
your going to find your engines DISPLACEMENT , the CAM and CYLINDER HEADS ability to flow air,
the exhaust scavenging efficiency,the vehicles WEIGHT, and the DRIVE TRAIN GEARING,
has a good deal of effect on the car/truck performance.
the larger the displacement and the higher the compression ratio
(as long as the fuel octane will allow you too without running into detonation)
generally the LEAST expensive compromise, you may make, when you compare total cost vs available power,
will depend on what you have available ,
step back take a deep breath, and think logically, your not locked into using the current parts you have!
you might want to visit several local salvage yards and look for a deal on a complete basic engine,
if for example you could find a 396 BBC, a 383 mopar , a 460 ford or a 472 CADDY , in running and re-buildable condition,
keep in mind the stock 500 caddy engine has over 500 ft lbs of torque and with a cam and head swap 600 ft lbs of torqure is extremely easy to obtain.
for $500-$600 (which is not that hard in some areas)
yes we can easily show you how to build a kick ass 383, or 406,
but both options would cost more that rebuilding one of those,
if you bought the engine for under $600 and rebuilt it as your starting out with,
almost all the major components that might be re-usable

I frequently get asked to help or provide guidance on auto or garage related projects
one of the younger guys I recently helped seemed rather amazed that I knew how,
to troubleshoot his problem and rather rapidly found its source.
He asked me how I learned how to do it?
I basically said,....you just need to stop being afraid of failing,
and understand you need to do as much research as you can, do
prior to diving into a project.
you'll find damn near everything is a bit intimidating the first few times you try to do it,
but after a few dozen projects, you'll look back and wonder how you ever had any doubts you could do it.
in fact, you'll kick yourself mentally for ever doubting you could do somethings that were so simple to do,
once you understood what was needed and how it was accomplished.
simple stuff like doing a brake job, replacing injectors or setting the ignition timing, or doing a tune-up may look to be rather difficult
if you've never done it.
and it certainly helps if you have an experienced mentor,
but you'll never get the skills and knowledge and experience required to be a decent mechanic,
or learn new skills if you're reluctant to get in over your head in new projects.
now obviously if you are naturally curious and like small challenges,
and like working with both your hands and mind its a big help!
but don,t be afraid to tackle things your currently clueless about,
it how you'll learn new skills... and if you're a tool junkie... justify new tool purchases
no ones born knowing how to succeed at auto repair work,
but there's not a damn thing on any car that your average guy can,t
fix or replace if he's willing to learn how the components work,
what needs to be checked and tested,
and if he's willing to learn new skills and acquire a few tools in the process.
with every new project you gain experience,
you may not know how to install a cam,swap injectors,
or replace a set of brakes or upholster a seat....
but with some research and ideally if you find an experienced mentor,
all those skills and more are rather easy to master if your willing to put in the time and effort required.
lack of experience is a curable issue,
especially if your willing to help others with their cars
and join a local car club, or at least make several friends with local guys,
that own similar cars who are willing to help each other with projects and repairs

chromebumpers · Apr 20, 2016

I've been reading these links, I'll bet I have 6 hrs plus reading and not done yet! Lol!

Grumpy · Apr 20, 2016

Ray P W said:
Guys, as you can probably tell I assemble my own engines. In doing that I've found not only defective machining but also defective parts from well respected sources like Clevite bearings and Hastings rings. Here are a couple of examples:

In assembling the small block Mopar 360 in my Dodge van I found a Clevite main bearing 1/2 that had a tiny droplet of babbit on the side that contacts the block. If installed that bearing 1/2 would have probably wiped out the crankshaft if the engine could turn and start.

In assembling the sbc 350 engine in my roadster I found that none of the Hastings moly rings had end gaps within specifications. When I called Hastings customer service at first I got "End gap isn't critical and, anyway, the rings you have are close". I wouldn't accept that bed wetting, thumb sucking story and Hastings sent me another set of rings that checked out correctly.

A "Slam 'em together" engine rebuilder would have probably handled those situations differently if they had inspected the parts at all. I simply don't know of any way to verify the correctness of the machining and parts manufacturing without checking everything myself. Since I have all of the parts in my shop to do that why not go ahead and assemble the engine?

I'm just saying that a motivated amateur can probably do a better job than many "professionals" because the amateur will take the time required to do the job correctly. If he doesn't know all the details he will find out.

Ray W

Ive worked on hundreds of body repairs and minor body mods on standard cars like chevelles and camaros , GTO, lemans, and road runner's cudas etc.
rust damage is a huge P.I.T.A.

a plazma cutter and a mig or tig welder and a donor car or at least the matching panels would be a huge help.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...don-t-you-own-a-spot-welder.11875/#post-70397

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-don-t-freak-out-mid-process.9302/#post-33608

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/welding-auto-sheet-metal.4604/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/access-to-weld-car-body.12826/#post-66325

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/lower-cost-plazma-cutters.12739/#post-65576

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ol-for-auto-body-panel-work.12571/#post-64082

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/welding-in-new-floor-pan.10735/#post-46871

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...o-buy-a-mig-for-sheet-metal.10601/#post-45510

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/welding-sheet-metal-repairs.4232/#post-11182

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-heads-up-on-buying-used-engine-blocks.14305/

The Real Reason Project Cars Take Forever

true story - :nodding:

garage.grumpysperformance.com

one of the few advantages working on corvettes have
is theres no potential for rust on body panels
either smc or fiberglass may have several other problems,
but rust fortunately is not the major issue.

The Corvette began production in 1953. The body panels are made from fiberglass and resin using two basic methods and continuously improved over the years. These methods are referred to as "press molded panels" and "sheet molded composites" or SMC.

Press Molded Panels
Press molded panels were produced from 1953 through the 1972 model year. The fiberglass and resin were hand laid or sometimes sprayed into molds. These molds were then heated and placed under very high pressure. This process resulted in panels having a uniform thickness and finish.

SMC
SMC panels were produced from 1973 to the C6 model. SMC panels were created from heated high pressure molds that compress a mixture of fiberglass, resin and catalyst. This new process created panels that were much smoother than press molded panels, provide tighter tolerances and a superior finish.

Carbon Fiber
Carbon fiber was used on some C6 ZR1 panels. The hood, front spoiler and roof panels were all made using carbon fiber composites. Carbon fiber panels were significantly stronger and lighter than SMC or press molded fiberglass panels. Carbon fiber had a greater tensile and compressive strength than fiberglass at a lower density resulting in stronger panels at lower weights.

I've seen a great many machine shops who either just don,t give a rats A$$ or they are CLUELESS INCOMPETENTS
you can't assume anything you paid for was done correctly,
until
YOU VERIFY IT PERSONALLY (AND YES THAT REQUIRES PRECISION MEASURING AND EFFORT)

in either case this forces a decent engine builder to verify all the work was properly done

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-the-rabbit-hole-with-alice.10933/#post-66925
the first few rule's of GRUMPY'S engine assembly

(1) THINK THINGS THROUGH CAREFULLY ,
WRITE DOWN A LIST OF COMPONENTS ,
MAKE DARN SURE THE LIST IS COMPATIBLE WITH,
and AT LEAST SEMI-REASONABLY PRICED WITHIN YOUR BUDGET.
FOR WHAT YOU INTEND TO BUILD AND RESEARCH THE RELATED MACHINE WORK,
RESEARCH CAREFULLY THE COMPONENT INSTALLATION AND INTENDED USE ,
AND POWER BAND THE PARTS WILL REQUIRE
AND FIND AN EXPERIENCED MENTOR.

(2) if in doubt, about how to do anything, on an engine, do some detailed research,
find and compare at least 3-5 valid trust worthy sources info,
read the instructions over again, several time's very carefully
and if available watch several related videos.

(3) if any component will not easily function as designed or requires a good bit of physical force to install ,
or your not 100% sure your doing something CORRECTLY
STOP, FIND OUT EXACTLY HOW THE PARTS SUPPOSED TO FIT AND FUNCTION,& WHY! YOUR HAVING PROBLEMS
theres a reason, and you better verify your clearances are correct , and your following the instructions before you proceed.

(4) never assume the parts you purchased can be used without carefully , cleaning them prior too,
checking the physical condition, verifying clearances and using the correct sealant, lubricants etc.

(5) the quality of a component is generally at least loosely related to the cost to produce it,
and the amount of detailed research and quality machine work that went into its production.
if you got a significant reduced price, theres typically a reason.
it might simply be because a new improved part superseded the one you purchased,
but it might be a far lower quality imported clone with lower quality materials and machine work.
its the purchasers responsibility to research quality.

(6) if you did not do the work personally or at least take the effort to verify it was done correctly and personally verify clearances
ITS almost a sure thing that it was NOT done , correctly, and yes that mandates you fully understand what your looking at,
and how the components are supposed to function and have high quality precision measuring tools.

(7) ITS ALMOST ALWAYS FASTER AND LESS EXPENSIVE , AND PRODUCES BETTER RESULTS IF YOU,
BUY FEWER HIGH QUALITY PARTS & DO THINGS CORRECTLY THE FIRST TIME

just a bit of info, if you want a new transmission,core for spare parts,
I called the local "U-PULL-AUTO-PARTS"
and the salvage yard quoted me $220
for ANY AUTO TRANSMISSION I CARE TO PULL
and I asked again, any auto trans regardless of make/model/year?
and was told yes..
but that trans does not come with a warantee its looked at as a core
so Id be looking for a car/truck, source ,that had been in an accident as it had to be running to be driving,
if the car/truck you pull it out of,
is undamaged it MIGHT be in the salvage yard,
because the trans failed.
Id also look to see if theres indications,
the car/truck had been under water or in a fire,
that might have damaged the transmission

its unfortunate but theres always going to be some transaction where machine shops or suppliers drop the ball or screw up.
Ive certainly had more than what Id consider my fair share of less than ideal transactions and dealing with machine shops over the decades,
and you can,t even in most cases point out the ones you should always go too...or avoid simply because many will go for hundreds of transactions,
having hundreds of happy customers.. then a couple totally #$%^& up , totally uncharacteristic transaction's,
and following with a "we just don,t really give a S4$%^& attitude and less than quality parts shipped."
then followed inexplicably reverting back to the normal customer relationship.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...on-picking-a-shop-to-do-work.5053/#post-28837

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/machine-work-costs.3169/#post-8452

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-55314

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-41064

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-52466

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-dated-signed-and-pictures.4786/#post-12990

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...oo-deal-with-a-machine-shop.14454/#post-750

a day or so spent in careful research & reading can save you hundreds of dollars and months of wasted work

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/piston-to-bore-clearance.4630/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-and-installing-connecting-rods-pistons.247/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rotating-assembly-bearings.9527/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...oven-facts-if-your-in-doubt.13051/#post-69824

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/assembly-lube-summary.6352/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/maximizing-piston-to-bore-ring-seal.3897/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-and-basic-piston-ring-info-youll-need.509/[/quote]

https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/sto...&submodel=&engine=&Nrpp=&No=&persistYmm=false

this looks like a good value (above)
I have three of these I use in my shop, (below)

not ideal but they have worked for many years but keep in mind I swapped to (4) 8" roller casters as the stock casters were less than ideal.
https://www.harborfreight.com/2000-...ine-stand-69522.html?_br_psugg_q=engine+stand

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-cus ... 46819.html

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200337094_200337094
prices, sizes and weight carry capacity and having brakes built into the design of the caster, vary so shop carefully

yes its going to add some expense, (about $80 if you catch these on sale) but if you add the optional larger casters to an engine stand it allows you to maneuver the legs of the stand so they roll over the crane

FIND A LOCAL DONOR TRUCK THAT RUNS , OR HAS OBVIOUS ISSUES NOT RELATED TO THE ENGINE ( RUST ON BODY)OR HAS A BAD TRANSMISSION

your local pick & pull OR you pull it salvage yard,

yeah Alaska is limited IN THIS REGUARD

probably has a 460 ford for under $700
just look for a donor truck/car that was obviously in decent physical condition
(IF THE OWNER KEPT THE TRUCK IN DECENT CONDITION,
HE MOST LIKELY DID MAINTINANCE REGULARLY

PRIOR TO HAVING BEEN IN A MAJOR T-BONE OR REAR END IMPACT
Accident (LESS LIKELY THE ENGINES BEEN DAMAGED)

(THUS YOU KNOW IT WAS RUNNING BEFORE IT WAS SCRAPPED)

ALSO CHECK THE TAIL PIPES FOR SIGNS IT WAS BURNING OIL, OR RUST INTERNALLY
(BLOWN HEAD GASKET)
AND CHECK THE DIP STICK FOR SIGNS OF RUST
TRY TO GET A PACKAGE DEAL WITH ALL ACCESSORYS INCLUDED
(EASY FOR THEM TO PULL THE FRONT CAP TO REMOVE THE ENGINE WITH A TOW TRUCK WRECKER)
THEY MAKE A FEW EXTRA BUCKS BUT YOUR LIKELY TO SAVE A GREAT DEAL OF WORK AND YOU GAIN A GREAT ACCESS TO MANY SMALL PARTS/BRACKETS

MY LOCAL SUPER MARKET HAS A BULLETIN BOARD
IVE PUT UP PICTURES OF A TRUCK I WAS LOOKING FOR WITH TEAR OFF MY PHOME NUMBERS SAYING i WANT TO BY A DAMAGED TRUCK (LISTING INFO LIKE MUST HAVE A 460 FORD ENGINE BODY CONDITION NOT IMPORTANT)

YOU MAY GET LUCKY I KNOW I HAVE HAD THIS WORK WHEN I LOOKED FOR bbc ENGINE IN THE PAST
I HAD A GUY SELL ME A RUNNING MOTOR HOME WITH A BIG BLOCK 454 FOR $350 THAT HAD A KITCHEN FIRE
AND i BOUGHT A TRUCK THAT HAD BEEN ROLLED FOR $700

getting started in the car hobby

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chromebumpers

solid fixture here in the forum

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The Real Reason Project Cars Take Forever