Hardening the awsome THM200-4R (slideshow)

DorianL

solid fixture here in the forum
Staff member
Dear All,

When I first bought my ride it had an anemic 6-banger in it mated to a THM-350. It did not take long before I found a suitable SBC400 and, from there, power kept on growing (HP/TQ > 600). The THM-350 did an adequate job for a long while but soon I wanted the comfort of an overdrive trans.

I started reading about the options out there and discovered the much-neglected THM200-4R. It was used in many a luxo-barge, but also has a pedigree as it was used in the Turbo Buick! In fact the transmission-talk forum on http://www.turbobuick.com was a great source of information for me.

The 200-4R has several advantages:
- Near direct bolt in for a THM-350. No need to trim the driveshaft;
- An overdrive trans. (Of course);
- A deeper first gear than the THM-350;
- A good RPM drop from 1 – 2 (contrary to the 700-4R that has a deeper 1st gear but large RPM drop.)
- Can be built to sustain quite a bit of HP and TQ;
- Has a lockup converter.

Still, to handle over 700HHP/TQ I have roughly $2500 worth of parts in there. Over the years, I also had the trans in and out of the car 8 times… as I learned!

You do NOT need to drop as much as $2500 to bring your THM200-4R up to snuff providing yer not making significant power – say anything under 450HP/TQ.

Do the job right and you will only need to put your trans in there once and worst case scenario twice.

You CAN do this. I had NO prior trans experience and did this all in my basement and on my back in a driveway - alone.

Here’s my advice on doing this:
- Be meticulous, bag, tag and label everything as you disassemble
- Take breaks, especially when things get stubborn.
- Always check everything twice. If a snag develops, you can rule out everything you have 100% confidence in.
- Do ALL the compressed air tests. You can check all your hydraulic circuits before you ever mount the trans in the car. Same idea: if you hit a snag, it might be the Valve Body and that doesn’t require dropping the trans.
- Get the ATSG (automatic transmission service guide) and get the Video. You need both.
- Get a trashed 200-4R for parts. Interchanging the steels of the clutch packs will get your clearances spot on. And you need that!
- Get yourself a pressure gauge for testing 0 - 300 PSI
testgauge1.jpg


Other than assorted snapring pliers and inch/lbs + foot/lbs torque wrenches, I did not need any exotic J-tools. If you don’t have compressed air, get the tests done at a buddy’s place. They are easy to do. NOTE: having J-tools would make it much easier!

SLIDESHOW:
http://s223.photobucket.com/albums/dd204/irabel457/Trans Work/?albumview=slideshow

The job was intimidating at first. I had NO prior experience with trans work and I did the rebuild in my basement - I dont have a garage. Now, I have come to the point where working on my trans feels familiar. (I still hate Dexron three in my hair. Yes, I do all this alone, on my back on a European cobblestone drive way. Free tip: collect disposable shower caps from hotels.)

Right, what have in this trans:
- D5 locking torque converter from a Turbo Buick (your converter needs to fit your app – stock might be fine.)
gnconverter.jpg

- Hardened stator support. It’s the splined shaft sticking out of the pump. Originals were soft steel and often got munched. A MUST for every rebuild.
StatorHardsm.jpg

- The pump can be stock but needs chrome moly rings to guide the vanes as the stock steel can break.
chromemoly_rings.jpg

- An aftermarket pressure regulator installed in the pump. Pressure rises faster and higher.
pr_reg_assy.jpg

- An extra wide band: extra clamping force on the drum, a huuuuge servo and adjustable pin + hardened anchor to clamp that band.
special1.jpg

- I modified my stock input shaft
shaft0.jpg

- Rollerized center supports
center.jpg

Xtreme_odcnter.jpg

- OD planetary carrier (I broke this one racing… a prosche!)
odringpts.jpg

- OD planetary (This broke with it)
odplanet1.jpg

- Forward drum (known to break on hi power apps)
Forwarddrum.jpg

- Bottom feeder sump and deep pan. Prevents sucking air and pressure loss on hard acceleration
Bottom_feeder_sh.jpg

pans.jpg

- Shift kit. A must if yer making any power.
Xtreme_vbmod.jpg

- A 3 clutch 4th gear. I trimmed my own piston on a lathe and added a clutch. All blueprinted!
Xtreme4thkit.jpg


All my parts come from http://www.ptsxtreme.com/ Bruce, is the most knowledgeable person on the PLANET when it comes to 200-4Rs. He won't let you down. Period.

Our Lady of Blessed Speed Don't Fail Me Now!

D

PS - you'll need to get the best oil cooler you can as well!
 
Great info!
thanks for posting


frankly IM amazed at how well you did, I doubt one guy in a thousand would have even attempted to do that rebuild!
without full time on site experienced help

the tips on where to get info on the rebuild are great!


http://www.turbobuick.com

http://www.ptsxtreme.com/

Get the ATSG (automatic transmission service guide) and get the Video. You need both.

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/m ... swodf2Ahag

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/54400B.html

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmi ... rebld.html

a pretty good video that shows you how to rebuild one.
Contact Technical Video at 16325 E. Lincoln Drive, Fall Creek, WI 54742-4813, 1-888-785-2604

http://www.tciauto.com/tc/trans-dim/
Transmission Dimensions Chart.jpg
 
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A person whose second car is a motorless flaming-chicken that shoots .22s on Sundays? I won't even get into the surf casting... :D
 
DorianL said:
A person whose second car is a motorless flaming-chicken that shoots .22s on Sundays? I won't even get into the surf casting... :D

obviously this conversation started someplace else, because its not making sense here?
care to let the rest of us in on the concepts????
 
Ohm... jteu2002 and I live about 10 miles apart. He has an M-block + large by huge Brodix heads waiting to be stuffed in a comatose firebird shell. He's been ribbing me for a long while about how much faster his ride will be than the Tangerine Tornado. Last time I saw the Flaming Chicken move under its own power was three years ago. Leaking oil at Spa-Francorchamps track, was it?

We also go to the same range - last time he was there I thought he was shotting a Red Rider... However, I got ribbed for carrying my gear aroung in an Estee Lauder bag.

Also just learned he surf casts?!?!?!? I had to look that one up. Apparently he's a Belgian champion?
 
thanks, now that previous conversations, a good deal clearer :mrgreen:
it will be fun to see you two guys compete, as you should be reasonably closely matched, once both cars are correctly set up, naturally the fire-birds going to be a bit lighter and easier to move but the chevelles should have better traction and more power, from the limited info Ive seen.
I had a friendly competition going for several years with a buddy (LARRY) while I was in college, in the early 1970s, between my 1965 lemans with a big block 496 and his 1968 camaro with a 454 big block engine, we constantly made mods to both cars and pretty much stayed about even in power to weight and e.t. until he got into smoking weed and his whole life turned to crap.
 
yes i am guilty :oops: for beeing dragging my feet on the trans am
i started to do the make over to a dragrace car .the reason was that they where
getting started with dragraceing in belgium
then dragracing was back to 0 a year later
si i had all the time to build mij ride
i wanted to do it right so i saved up some money
and bought me a dart little m and a forged part 4340 crank etc
i just sold my brodix RR200 cnc they are to small for my engine setup
i will go AFR 220 but like every tome it is the money that slow the purchase
last year i started surfcasting for the guys that got no idea what the **** is that
it is lanching a chunck of lead as far as possible with a fishing rod on a field (to messure the distance)
if someone had told me i wood do a sport like that a year ago i had told him he was nuts
but it is very addicted
i got 44 years so a musclesport like that is something i gotto do NOW not in 10 year and in then year i still
can stump a trottlepedal so that thing got the forhand for now
the car is on a sidetrack forthe summer
and next sunday i will bring my .44 mag to the range just to make more noise then your . 22 dorianL
lol
 
grumpyvette said:
Great info!
thanks for posting


frankly IM amazed at how well you did, I doubt one guy in a thousand would have even attempted to do that rebuild!
without full time on site experienced help

the tips on where to get info on the rebuild are great!


http://www.turbobuick.com

http://www.ptsxtreme.com/

Get the ATSG (automatic transmission service guide) and get the Video. You need both.

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/m ... swodf2Ahag

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/54400B.html

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmi ... rebld.html

a pretty good video that shows you how to rebuild one.
Contact Technical Video at 16325 E. Lincoln Drive, Fall Creek, WI 54742-4813, 1-888-785-2604
I have found the "Technical Video", but you also refer to another video with the ATSG Manual. Is this different from the Technical Video ???

I've checked the ATSG website and they have videos, just nothing for the 200-4R that I can find.

http://atsg.com/cart/catalog/Video-16-1.html
 
Only one video that I know of and I think you have it... no ATSG-specific video.

Cheerios!
 
DorianL said:
Only one video that I know of and I think you have it... no ATSG-specific video.

Cheerios!
I ordered this book from from Summit, I think it's the same as the ATSG manual. Since I had $20 in Summit Bucks, it only cost me $17. Should be here in a couple of days.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-894100/

Did you buy the video and did you like it?
 

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The video is awsome! ATSG as well. I also highly recommend Haynes - they have one on automatics transmissions and a very good section on 200-4R. I also got the CK performance on modifying 200-4Rs.

MOST of my intelligence came from PTSXtreme. Bruce, very helpful and knowledgable guy. Really knows his stuff. His hardware is expensive but kicks butt.
 
DorianL said:
The video is awsome! ATSG as well. I also highly recommend Haynes - they have one on automatics transmissions and a very good section on 200-4R. I also got the CK performance on modifying 200-4Rs.

MOST of my intelligence came from PTSXtreme. Bruce, very helpful and knowledgable guy. Really knows his stuff. His hardware is expensive but kicks butt.

If this doesn't work out, then it's all your fault that I tried building an auto transmission, I mean just how smart can someone from Belgium be. :lol:

Well I got the TCI manual in, it's really just the ATSG manual, so I'm good there. I definitely need more that one reference, so I will be ordering the video. The CK Performance manual is $65, kinda high compared to the other resources. What did you like about it??? Does it have good clear photos or drawings?

So Bruce was more than willing to discuss with you the components you needed ?

 
Ive rebuilt several MUNCIES and helped rebuild a few TH400s but transmissions in general over a wide spectrum, are something Im going to admit I am far from expert level on.
so please take lots of pictures and let me get as much info as possible, and all the detailed info on tools procedures etc. you can provide will be very helpful
 
grumpyvette said:
Ive rebuilt several MUNCIES and helped rebuild a few TH400s but transmissions in general over a wide spectrum, are something Im going to admit I am far from expert level on.
so please take lots of pictures and let me get as much info as possible, and all the detailed info on tools procedures etc. you can provide will be very helpful
It's still a ways off from starting on the trans, but I'm surprised you had to ask about pictures, have I failed you yet ??? :cool:
 
Indy, I can send you my CK performance copy... Just send it back once yer done. No rush. APO will be like mailing CONUS.

As for Bruce, he's good. Tell him what yer after and he'll sort you out. Might tell him Ira from Belgium connected you. He knows me very well. Save yer nickels and dimes tho. You get what you pay for as always.
 
DorianL said:
Indy, I can send you my CK performance copy... Just send it back once yer done. No rush. APO will be like mailing CONUS.
You think it will be less than $10 to send it my way ??? It might be spring before I'm done, are you sure??? I don't need it for a few months so maybe. CONUS...... is this got something to do with SEX ???

As for Bruce, he's good. Tell him what yer after and he'll sort you out. Might tell him Ira from Belgium connected you.
Oh god, does this mean I get to pay twice the normal price ???

He knows me very well. Save yer nickels and dimes tho. You get what you pay for as always.
Nickels and dimes......what are you trying to tell me, not sure I understand what you are saying ???
 
Hehehehe

Yes it should be like shipping to Continental USA - nuttin' kinky there. Keep as long as you want. PM me a shipping address?

Check out PTS' online catalog. You'll see that his parts are typically at least 20% more expensive than most. The higher end parts can go 100 - 200% more. Bruce should tell you what you need for your application. Bear in mind that since yer doing yerself and he wants to avoid failure... he goes for the overkill. Making sure that even the weakest link is up for it.

BTW - I bought a couple of time from CK Performance and had a negative experience. (Others had very positive experienced with him.) But a governor shipped without check balls. A failed pump not cut parallel. CK pump was $60. PTS $200.
 
I thin there is only one Bruce there... he's a somewhat senior gent - but to hear him on the phone you'd never suspect so ;)
 
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