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ITS good to see theres a few people out there that are aware we exist!
but any "GURU status "
is only the result of LEARNING from a ton of mistakes made, in the past, and the willingness to share what experience the more experienced members on the site have gained, and pointing out what did or did NOT work well.

or as my dad said

"only an idiot touches the red hot stove burner TWICE, most of us LEARN from our mistakes"

"if your going to be DUMB, you better be TOUGH because life's going to be hard & expensive, its better to be observant and learn from OTHER PEOPLES MISTAKES"

CHECK ALL YOUR FUSES and electrical connections WITH A MULTI METER, but don,t assume you know what the problem is, let the facts lead you to the answers
be aware that not all engine "MISSES" or "ticking sounds " that you might be dealing with or tying to correct, are an electrical or a fuel delivery or pressure issue, your problem might be a mechanical issue like a vacuum leak, from a busted hose,or loose gasket,a burnt valve, loose or worn timing chain,badly adjusted valves, broken or loose harmonic damper, loose flex plate, or torque converter bolt, busted valve spring, burnt or defective rocker, loose or worn valve guide, or a dozen other issues so try to logically isolate it to a cylinder or system, electrical,valve train, fuel delivery, exhaust , ignition ,etc.
Ill add these tips.
it usually helps, if your posting about a problem, and looking for help, if you post your physical location IE city & state as there are frequently local members with experience that might be willing to help diagnose and maybe help with the mechanical or electrical or tuning issues too cure the problem.

(1) do EXTENSIVE research FIRST, before....... buying parts.... or starting a modification, that INCLUDES making a detailed parts list and researching , the sources, cost, manuals etc. IE FIND OUT whats necessary to do the job, and what results youll expect before you start

(2) ITS a HUGE advantage to have the correct tools, things like engine cranes, diagnostic test equipment, welders,lifts, etc. may seem like a big expence thats not dirrectly moving your project forward, but there NECESSARY in some cases and ALWAYS make the project go faster and easier than trying to do without them.

(3) work SAFELY, if you could get hurt doing something, chances are very good that you will eventually find out exactly WHY you should have done it the safe rather than the fast/easy way, if you don,t think it thru and use the correct tools and precautions

(4)ITs almost ALWAYS better to have several friends help, on a project, having two or more guys thinking things thru improves your chances of getting it done correctly and safely,and keep in mind ,its always best to do your projects after helping a more experianced guy do something similar on his car so you have some experiance doing it, thus be ready and available to help your buddies withn thier projects and don,t avoid helping so you won,t get dirty, or have some free time thats used on other guys cars vs yours...in the long run it pays big to help others

(5)ask questions and be sure you understand the answers, KNOWING what your doing before you start is a huge advantage

(6)take pictures, label wireing, put small parts in labeled ziploc bags and take notes, use the manuals, and internet, and if something won,t fit or looks wrong research rather than forcing it with a bigger hammer


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CPqbaSg ... re=related

http://www.chevythunder.com/fuel%20inje ... pg%20B.htm

IF you start with checking for loose electrical connections and vacuum leaks you might find the problem, a propane torch is both safer and easier to use as a method to locate vacuum leaks
check for vacuum leaks


(DONT LIGHT IT) just SLIGHTLY open the valve so its allowing gas to flow at a low volume,start the engine and let it idle at the lowest speed you can then place the tip of the UNLIT torch at any suspected vacuum leak and listen for the rpms to increase and watch the tachometer, gas flowing into a vacuum leak will increase engine speed.
Another possible quick test you can do relates to "clear flooded engine mode" if the car cranks but doesn't start and has fuel pressure, you can test by trying disconnecting the TPS sensor connection on the pass side of the throttle body,. This will kick the computer into limp home mode (setting a predetermined voltage) and the car will start after a time if you flooded the plenum in the intake
look for loose or missing vacuum hoses, cracked or broken power brake connections, emissions system hoses that are loose, vacuum connections to the trans or ignition, loose connectors missing or loose bolts cracked hoses missing accessory connections etc.
naturally this only locates leaks to the outside, and its possible for the intake to suck air from the lifter gallery, so that also needs to be checked if everything else seems to be ok.

read this

set and verify your ignition timing, pull trouble codes,set your tps and iac,, then check for vacuum leaks on the lines and intake,then get out your multi meter and verify all the sensors, chances are good its a defective heat sensor or defective o2 sensor, a logical step by step approach will lead you to the problem, youll be amazed at what youll learn reading links. use of a shop manual and multi meter can be very helpful


http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-dig ... 98674.html


FLUKE is the brand of choice but they are expensive, shop around, Ive still got the original fluke multi meter I bought in HIGH SCHOOL and it STILL WORKSIve purchase several from harbor freight , in the last 10 years alone and only one still works
http://www.fluke-direct.com/shop/itemDe ... urer=FLUKE

http://www.fluke-direct.com/shop/catego ... TERS&path=



a good quality if temp gun helps more than you might realize at diagnosing problems
http://www.grainger.com/product/EXTECH- ... _-AllPages
learn to use the factory shop manual, and a multi meter and LISTEN to the engine closely, tapping and high pitch whines can indicate defective injectors or fuel pressure regulators, fuel pumps,mis- adjusted valve train components, worn distributor parts, check all the fuses and electrical grounds and corrosion on connections thats something thats frequently over looked etc.
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New Member
HELLO to everyone. my name is christopher smith, and especially to you mr. grumpyvette. i have read a few of your posts and your recommendations and they make good sense. i like to think of myself as a little bit of an engine guy. i understand enough to get into deep trouble. actually i was with an outfit called "engine source" and used to hot tank, bore, hone, deck, grind, surface, etc engine blocks and parts.

here's the story. got a 70 1/2 split bumper true z28. has a 4 11 rear end in her, with a turbo 400 trans. 468 cubic inch with an extreme energy 274h competition cam products, 3" exhaust, hooker headers, gm 781 oval port heads, with and edelbrock torker II intake, 750 holley double pumper, roller rockers etc...

ran her out of oil a few years back and it is time to get her going again. i am thinking about upgrading the camshaft. i am keeping it at 468 cubes, about 9.7 compression ration, 2.19 on the intakes, 1.88 on the exhaust, and keeping her hydraulic because my daughter is 17 and wants to run at the track. so i'm thinking a 12 second camaro is fine for a 17 year old girl. the frame is connected and she has the frame tied and an 8 point cage and a line lock. the Z was built and then you have the kid and well you park the car and you go to work... and then one day, wellllllllllllllllllllllll...

so since i am going to do whatever is needed to the crank and or rods, i am thinking about the Lunati VooDoo 60204. i am fully aware of matching the springs etc etc...

what i am asking is what you think of the 60204 for a 9.5 compression ration 468. yes i will match the torque convertor. i am thinking about leaving the 750 on until she becomes more familiar with the car.

any thoughts????


Staff member
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Staff member

Welcome Christopher !!! We like to think you came to the right place.

That should be plenty for your 17 yo daughter to get her feet wet. You do know that this will just
bring more boys around. Does she like coming out to the garage and helping yet ???

There is just one thing I need to let you know !



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New Member
comp cams xe274 vrs lunati 60204....

hey to everyone.....

i got your email and yes i agree with the air gap intake manifold, and yes i have a very large scoop (open end toward windshield) on the car.

i am looking to create a torque monster using a 468 cubic inch big block chevy engine. my "low budget" 496 peanut port iron headed street engine had 120 cc chamber with a static compression ratio of 9.7:1. yep, i wrote static. that's cuz i had the engine block decked, line honed, tru-blok bored and honed, and all kinds of other machine work done. she spun very well.

this was also a "roller hydraulic" camshaft in this 496.... this was a truly nice street engine, dependable, easy to start, drive, rip the eye teeth out when your passanger when i ran 10 lbs of air in the Mickey Thompson Street ET's. here are actual dyno number on that engine from way back when. i do not have a scanner so i can not scan yet, nor do i know how to paste pictures YET.. but then again, i have a 17 year old and if she can't i bet one of those boys can....

Iron Stock
3,200 595 363
3,300 594 373
3,400 594 385
3,500 595 396
3,600 595 407
3,700 593 418
3,800 592 428
3,900 591 439
4,000 590 449
4,100 589 460
4,200 587 470
4,300 585 479
4,400 581 487
4,500 577 495
4,600 572 501
4,700 565 506
4,800 558 510
4,900 551 514
5,000 543 516
5,100 534 518
5,200 525 519
5,300 515 520
5,400 507 521
5,500 496 519
5,600 487 519
5,700 476 517
5,800 465 513
5,900 451 507
6,000 438 500
6,100 423 492
6,200 407 481

that was a 595 ft lb / 520 horse 496. now i am doing the 468 and i really want the bottom end torque of a stump puller that will make a 300 to 400 foot ride just wild. think i can get those kinda numbers out of a 468 with a set of 781 and a 60204 lunati camshaft? i know i do not have the stroke and i also do not have the piston speed as a 496, but i am looking to come close.

any suggestions???

thanks in advance,


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Staff member

AT one time I owned a 1961 and a 1968,corvette, then I got married and only owned a 1968, then things got tight and that eventually had to go..I then bought a 1985, and a 1996, and the son bought a 1992 that spent 90% of its time at my house with me doing all the maintenance and repairs at my cost.
I still own the 1996 and 1985, but currently the 1985 is being slowly refurbished.
when I got married my wife knew my hobbys were elk hunting and building engines and rebuilding corvettes , I told her jokingly that I might consider giving up elk hunting for a full time mistress, but I was keeping the cars, and tools, but she saw elk hunting two weeks a year, and the cars as a bit less of a problem than the potential mistress for some reason.

as you read through most of the builds listed and discussed on this web site,
youll eventually see a strong trend, towards what I and many other knowledgeable engine builders have been forced over time into recognizing.
the trend is simply that only engines built for max long term durability and max torque in the useful rpm range are making any financial sense.
as Ive stated many times, you have to finish a race to win it! and your never going to build a client base ,
if the engines you build make killer power on a dyno but need rebuilding in a couple months time.
theres several threads on builds here on this web site, and a great deal of time and research is devoted to extended durability, cooling and lubrication ,
and carefully selecting components, and machine work done, designed for max strength, for the dollars spent!
I used to ask guys
"would you prefer to build an engine that if you keep it well tuned and change the oil regularly,
will most likely still be running in 10-12 years, without changing major components, or
would you rather have an additional 25-30 hp,and need a rebuild every 3-6 years,
but have a much better chance it won,t last half that time span....
especially in a muscle car driven on the street,
where either engine choice will destroy street tires effortlessly,
and get you a ticket effortlessly for speeding any time you get stupid?"

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The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
well its good to know theres at least a dozen or so guys actually reading the links here occasionally!!


solid fixture here in the forum
Reading links was almost a fulltime job to me for a while, but it pay at the end.
Am not reading alot latelly i must admit, i can't afford to work on anything, so my interest for cars and engines are reduced.
Anyway am so thirst for learning. There's always a grey area where i want to expand my knowledges, so the link still picks my curiosity.

Some of the links are not working anymore(the ones pointing to forum post using viewtopic.php)

The projects topic with alot of pictures and jokes are mostly what am here for.(learning and having a great time with great people)
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The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
as many of the longer term members on the site know,
I try hard to collect and post as much related info as I can collect,
and place it here on this site, comment on the content as I think its required and add what I thinks missing or over looked.
yes a few links will be rather repetitive,at times, because I don,t know what your skipping over, or reading through!
one of my pet peeves is having someone delete a damn good knowledge source! or fail to put any personal effort, at all, into learning whats required!
we are all here to help!
one thing I really hate is going to a semi trusted web site to retrieve info, only to find that source is no longer there as the web sires been deleted, I posted for years on several web sites only to have two I had zero control over suddenly dis-appear as the web sites owner was not able to keep up with the sites expenses and eventually just "threw in the towel" I'm trying hard to keep this site open, long term as a dependable resource but at times its difficult!


solid fixture here in the forum
Reading links was almost a fulltime job to me for a while, but it pay at the end.
Am not reading alot latelly i must admit, i can't afford to work on anything, so my interest for cars and engines are reduced.
Anyway am so thirst for learning. There's always a grey area where i want to expand my knowledges, so the link still picks my curiosity.

Some of the links are not working anymore(the ones pointing to forum post using viewtopic.php)

The projects topic with alot of pictures and jokes are mostly what am here for.(learning and having a great time with great people)
Amen, some of the links are repetitive, but read them and take in the knowledge and learn from the mistakes others have made and be better for it!


Doing Tech here as Alwayswith Grumpy.
My Personal projects are here too.
Take time to look around.
Also Doing Tech on Max Performance Pontiac .
Talking Street Racing and Beating Hellcats welcome .
They never had a Corvette Pontiac guy like me ever.
Photograph memmory.
And know my stuff.


solid fixture here in the forum
Staff member
Doing Tech here as Alwayswith Grumpy.
My Personal projects are here too.
Take time to look around.
Also Doing Tech on Max Performance Pontiac .
Talking Street Racing and Beating Hellcats welcome .
They never had a Corvette Pontiac guy like me ever.
Photograph memmory.
And know my stuff.
And you're so dam handsome too . . . . .if you say so your self! Lol!


I Putting my Trans Am together myself.
Going Street Racing Drag Racing Hellcats.
What are you doing ?
Anything KOOL LIKE ME ?


The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member

I have to point out I have 50 plus years devoted to gaining knowledge ,
about how you succeed at building reliable engines,and I pay a great deal of attention to the successful combos ,
and I've taken the effort too learn why the less successful combos failed.
now the truth is Ive made more than my full share of mistakes, but unlike most people,
I learn from my mistakes and the mistakes made by others and don,t generally repeat them.
I also take the time and effort to find out why parts fail, or why various mis-matched components don,t work well.
that seems to be a rather unique skill, from what I've seen.
if you take the time and effort required to read enough threads and linked info you'll see a pattern emerge!
its based on a concept that its far better to sacrifice a few peak potential horse power if thats required,
if that change can make a very noticeable improvement in the engines long term durability!
or as SMOKEY YUNICK used to say, the most important characteristic in building a race winning combo,
is simply that the most successful engine combo is based on an engine that has to finish the race in good running condition.
that in no way should be read as I can,t build a kick-butt engine with massive power, it just means that rock solid durability ,
takes presidence over adding a few additional peak, bragging hp, and a wide torque curve in the intended rpm range ,
adequate lubrication, cooling and staying out of detonation, and proper exhaust scavenging and a stable valve train,
are factors that take a far higher level of concern than bragging rights on a dyno.
or put differently, do it correct the first time, use the best parts you can afford , check your clearances, mandate 100% durability,
and strive for max torque in the intended rpm range, and let the hp numbers fall where they may!
Ive build almost 200 engines now over the last 50 years, and I can,t remember anyone having one fail unless they did something stupid,
like forget to check oil or coolant levels too repeatedly try to hit absurdly high rpms on a frequent recurring basis.
piston speed should be kept under about 4500 fpm, and even that should not be done constantly.
most engine failures are the result of valve train component or rotating component failures,
use of parts not designed for the stress levels,
detonation or lack of proper clearances and lubrication and lack of proper cooling,
control those factors and your engine lasts considerably longer







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The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
theres a bunch of us old geezers on this web site
well its good to see someone takes advantage of 5 decades of my personal experience and
dozens of other very experienced and in many cases even more skilled members ,
who are also posting, answers from in many cases even more personal experience.
when you have a cumulative total of hundreds of years of success and without doubt a few screw-ups,
too look back on, it gives you a much more realistic look at this hobby


The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
I'm always glad to help when I can!:D

and if anyone takes the time to read the links and sub-links,
they can,t help but pick up a good deal of hard won tips,
and yeah experience comes from making mistakes,
wisdom comes from remembering and avoiding mistakes,
that you and others have made previously, and keeping notes on what worked well.



The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
I thought this was rather interesting,I had to smile I thought the idea of this web site was understood!

Grumpy, I visit your website fairly often, and I have to point out ,something I recently learned!
I'm always finding out a great deal of stuff I missed, on earlier visits, I figured out WHY!!
yes I've stumbled across this thread that, " partly explains

but I was recently looking for links to help isolate a minor electrical gremlin, I printed out that whole thread ,( 6 pages) as it had a good deal of useful tips,
I carelessly misplaced the printed and stapled info, so I went back and re-printed the thread..... here's the part that made me scratch my head....

it was now over 8 pages long and yet, had the same number of posts, so I started to compare the two print-outs..
what I found was dozens of recently added pictures and links that, you seem too have had added too existing previous posts,
and several much more detailed instructions and explanations, the more I look over the web-site the more I see this is very common.

yes one of my pet peeves with most web-sites is you'll have too look over dozens or even hundreds of threads to find info related to your searches,
you might find what your looking for right off or it might take you hours of reading and you don,t ever find what you need.
each thread contains some info, but you need to read dozens in some cases to find what you need and do multiple searches.
too make this website a bit more effective at teaching, I spend several hours a day going back over old threads,
and spend the time adding clarifications, more diagrams, more pictures, too a limited number of threads, thus concentrating the info in fewer threads,
and as I'm sure you'll notice a few related links.

I doubt you'll find many threads over, or older than a month old without there having been upgrades ,clarifications , more added pictures, more detailed diagrams,explanations or added links
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