Hopping up my 1977 vette.

S

ShakeyrayStingray

Member
Hello everyone, I am planning on upgrading my stock all original 1977 Stingray. Currently, it has a 350. My dad used to race cars and build hopped up 350's so this is going to be a father son project. I am a math teacher so it should be interesting, lol. Anyhow, he is not sure what we should get and from where for a 383 build...but he is very good a putting a motor together ...and very picky. So far, I'm thinking about buying a new 4 bolt block from summit. Also, I want to go with some big heads (but not too expensive). I have about 2k in all to tinker with. O, and I have the 4 speed on the floor too. I want something that sounds good, and that I can stomp on maybe 2 or 3 times a year. :D I know there are a lot of combinations but I am indecisive...wut is a good above average build?

Also, on another note, my dad said something about gear drive because I told him I wanted it to sound different. Would this be a good way to go?

Hmmm.....just noticed I had this in the moderators section....didn't mean to do that...oops.
 
what parts do you currently have , what rear gear ratio?
do you need to pass emmission testing?

without knowing a few more basics its difficult to recommend a decent combo of engine parts for ABOUT that $2K budget

OK,ILL post a list of decent parts for a basic street combo, youll want a manual transmission or a 3200 stall converter and a 3.73-4.11 rear gear , and a decent 700-750cfm carb, and low restriction exhaust with headers to optomize the results(assumes your starting with a running 350 engine that needs rebuilding and youll do much of the work yourself)
keep in mind this is NOT a peak hp build but a street performance combo where instant and torque and a broad tq curve is the goal


OK BASIC 383 COMBO, for ABOUT a $2K-$2.5K budget

rotating assembly ($745)(good budget parts for the money)

http://www.adperformance.com/index.php? ... cts_id=665

rotating assembly ($945)( VERY good budget parts for the money)

http://www.adperformance.com/index.php? ... cts_id=673

(IF I WAS BUILDING IT THE BETTER ROTATING ASSEMBLY FOR THE EXTRA $200 IS A TOTAL NO BRAINER)

ask for 9.5:1-10.5:1 cpr pistons, 10:1 would be about ideal on the street, for a hot 383 combo and pump gas
MOST PLACES WILL SUBSTITUE AT LEAST SOME OTHER COMON COMPRESSION RATIO PISTONS IN THESE KITS FOR A NOMINAL CHARGE...ASK!

cam ($75)
http://www.survivalmotorsports.com/Chev ... cams2.html

Chevrolet Performance Camshaft; Part Number SH3230

Small Block 1955-94 262-400; intake-duration@.050 lift 230; exhaust-duration@.050 lift 230; intake-lift .480; exhaust-lift .480; lobe sep angle 109


intake ($200)

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

oil pan ($200)

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... 4294925061

heads ($1100)

first choice
http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1021001/10002/-1
second choice
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku


yes thats about $2500 but its about the least youll pay for decent parts that should make a fun combo, Im assuming youve got a basic 350 engine to steal parts from, and IM not including gaskets and machine work, and small parts, like lifters (ID SUGGEST RHODES LIFTERS)its a p.i.t.a. but decent components cost more than crap, and if you want it to run well your going to spend a few bucks, now 90% of ther guys reading this are going to think, hell, I can save $1100 just reuseing my factory heads, and thats true!, but youll also be reducing the power potential significantly, because either set of heads are worth 40-60 plus hp or more on a 383 over stock heads, youll have a car thats about 25 lbs lighter with aluminum heads and the engine will be less prone to detonation as aluminum heads tend to disipate heat better in the combustion chambers, unless you can get those stock heads ported , but even then the aluminum aftermarket heads are a better heads than ported stock heads will ever be, and will produce better hp/tq
yes youll want to get the assembly ballanced and yes the block may need to be bored if theres any wear so the pistons will fit, discuss this with the local machine shop
yes its over budget, but don,t make the mistake many guys do of looking for the cheapest components available to cut costs, its almost sure to result in a significantly higher chance of busted parts and wasted money, your better off building the short block assembly correctly and running the stock heads while you save up the extra cash than using cheap components thru the build up

if your willing to give up some streetability , for a bit more hp?
(PROBABLY A MISTAKE)

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam ... &x=32&y=10
 
BTW
would you AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT


" ITS almost always cheaper in the long run to buy the better components at the slightly higher cost, the first time,durring a cars construction, rather than the cheaper components and wait untill you to need to replace them later as it becomes almost mandatory"

(AND YES ALMOST EVERYONE LEARNS THIS THE HARD WAY, OVER A LONG TIME)


BTW THINGS WORTH READING

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=519

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=629

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=461

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=263

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viewtopic.php?f=69&t=684

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=193

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=906&p=1473#p1473

http://corvettec3.ca/partsman.htm
 
Looks good bro, I have everything stock in the car. So, the rearend is 3:36 final drive ratio. Also, my dad has told me plenty of times not to skimp so I can definitely drop that extra 500 - 800. I haven't had a chance to look all this over yet but had to say something cause i'm excited, lol....and I have plenty of other parts.(my dad has a lot of old stuff but I wanted to go all new technology) Anyhow, I have some lessons to make ...but will have all this read by tomorrow.
 
Okay...don't know why I put 3:36 gear ratio....probably cause I've never had it apart and looked at what the automatic is (jeez)....it should be 3:70 gears....still reading all this stuff.
 
ShakeyrayStingray said:
Okay...don't know why I put 3:36 gear ratio....probably cause I've never had it apart and looked at what the automatic is (jeez)....it should be 3:70 gears....still reading all this stuff.
Click to expand...


great thats an even better match and will work better
 
how many guys reading thru this are planing a first time engine rebuild?, that might need guidance or questions answered ETC?
anyone local to palm beach?
 
grumpyvette said:
how many guys reading thru this are planing a first time engine rebuild?, that might need guidance or questions answered ETC?
anyone local to palm beach?
Click to expand...

Present!
 
Hey Grumpy...my dad says that he knows you and met you once....he won National Eliminator in Gainesville back in like....73 or 74...somewhere around there.

Anyhow, since I'm probably going to get those Brodix heads,

SB-Chevy IK 200 Aluminum Cylinder Heads
200cc Intake ports
64cc Combustion Chambers
1.470'' Dual Valve Springs
(125 lbs. Closed / 325 lbs. Open)
.575'' Max lift
2.02''/1.60'' Valves
Straight Plug
Assembled

you think it will be okay to use a 4 bolt block coming out of a van?(Granted its in good shape) I read a link that said they older block are only good for so much HP. This block should be fine right? If I have to get a block and those nice heads it will throw me way over.

Also, I have read and read and people have different outlooks on the 5.7 versus 6 inch rods.....Should I go with Probe SRS forged and 6 inch rods since I am running the aluminum heads?
 
ok, first point, while IVE raced at gainesville FLA. I might not be who your dads thinking about, IM not grumpy JENKINS

ok
the 4 bolt stock chevy blocks generally good for builds up into the 450-500hp range even though its rated by chevy at only 350hp, but theres thousands of guys running engines with basically stock blocks in the 450hp -475hp range.

the 6" rods have some advantages over the 5.7" rods but not enought to base the whole engine build on the differances
the 5.7" generally produce decent hp and they are easier to work with as the lower oil ring on the piston doesn,t cross thru the piston pin bore

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the stock production block is not nearly as strong as the better aftermarket blocks, and in a 11- 9 second car Id suggest getting a DART splayed bolt block, the stock production block is rated for use at up to about 350-450 hp,
thats fine but chevy rates those, and current production, 4 bolt blocks as good for 350hp



even the chevy strait 4 bolt bowtie blocks only rated at 450hp


you get ahold of one of these bad boys, theres no worries of block cracking or grenading at 500+hp.
we all know guys who have built engines exceeding 450hp with stock blocks but the blocks not designed for that stress and the main caps tend to walk at 450 plus, yes you may get away for years before something fails, but the blocks not nearly as strong as a BOWTIE,DART,BRODIX etc designed for racing, keep in mind an engine that makes 450 peak hp is making much less at lower rpms, any engine held at max rpms will far more quickly show its flaws than one thats only occasionally run hard, thats why the dyno hero gets to show the proof his engine peaks at 450 plus hp, and still gets to drive the car on the street for months or even years, its very seldom run at full stress levels


you need to get into the splayed 4 bolt main cap blocks before the hp rating exceeds 450hp-500hp,


and your looking to sharply exceed that.
theres an excellent chance the main caps will be squirming around on a stock block at those hp levels and thats not good for durribility.
http://www.dartheads.com/products/block ... locks.html



splayed bolt 4 bolt main cap block (below)
DARTSHPBLOCK004.jpg
 
Hey Grumpy(or whoever has some imput of course...wow, i got a lot of VIEWS, lol) ...from what I've read, I could make my Qjet perfrom pretty good with some drilling...and my dad assures me he knows how to do this. It shows on the Internet how you can really deck out a Qjet. My question is concerning the aluminum intake you told me about. From what I've gathered, it is a square bore and will not fit the Q-jet. At first, I thought it would be good to go with the Qjet and maybe get a Holley 750 double pumper later to save on cost. However, the square bore has me puzzled. So, I'm assuming that the Qjet will not fit. Therefore, I guess the main question would be...is the intake really important going with some brodix aluminum heads?....is there an adapter I can use for the Qjet until I get a Holley?
 
Okay, I have looked over everything and switched, switched back and have decided this is what I am probably looking at building:


Forged Rotating Assembly $1359.00
Scat 4340 3.75" Forged Crankshaft
-Scat 4340 Premium Forged Pro Comp 5.7" I-beam Connecting Rods w/ 7/16" capscrew
-Forged Pistons 12cc dished - Compression with be around 10.2:1
Speed Pro Molly Rings
Clevite 'H' series Rod and Main bearings
After looking into all the Rotating Assemblies I wanted something that will not tear up.
NorthernAutoParts (they will price match any place and my dad has never had any problem ordering from them).


Carb.
Holley 750 double pumper or old QJET ( I can not use the QJET with the weiand 8501. However, the rpm will have to be ported to use with the ik200's)


Cam
Not sure what to go with here.


Intake $200.00
Either weiand 8501 or the performer rpm. If I use the rpm, I may have to port the intake to fit the heads. However, it will save me $400 on buying a carb.


Oil Pan $200.00
Miloden High volume oil pan


Heads $949 - Identical to the Brodix with same replacement parts
Summit Aluminum - * 200cc intake ports
* 64cc combustion chambers
* Phosphorous bronze valve guides
* Valve seats for use with unleaded gas
* End-milled and drilled for accessories
* 2.02 in./1.60 in. stainless steel valves
* Valve springs
* Valve stem seals
* 5/16 in. guideplates
* Rocker arm studs
* Retainers
 
http://www.survivalmotorsports.com/Chev ... cams2.html

Chevrolet Performance Camshaft; Part Number SH3230

Small Block 1955-94 262-400; intake-duration@.050 lift 230; exhaust-duration@.050 lift 230; intake-lift .480; exhaust-lift .480; lobe sep angle 109


the original cam I suggested is still a decent choice
 
Hey Grumpy, why not go with a solid cam/lifters? I read some of your stuff on solid holding up better. Of course, I probably wont see really really high rpm's. Is this pretty much something that is just preference?
 
EVERY CHOICE YOU MAKE IS A COMPROMISE IN SOME AREA

Solid lifters have some noticeable advantages, but its almost all in the 5500rpm and over rpm band, and everything you've stated shows your rarely going to run above that rpm limit.
now ID be the first guy in line to suggest a decent flat tappet solid lifter cam on a budget build up, if you were looking to run the car hard and race rather frequently, and you were looking too maximize the power per dollar spent, I feel their an EXCELLENT VALUE , but I get the feeling from what you've said that the engine will rarely spend much time racing and its a 90% street driven car?
If you want to go that route,... theres certainly decent cams available, like the CROWER 00320 that provide decent street and better upper rpm performance but at a slight loss in street drive-ability and might require slightly more frequent valve adjustments

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam ... 0&x=47&y=8
while thats certainly no big price to pay for the extra 500-800rpm on the upper limit, the switch too solid lifters provides, in a similar duration cam, if you'll seldom get into that rpm band it might be a total waste of effort?
look, cams and lifters are cheap and easily replaced in a weekend, if you go with the original combo and want more upper rpm potential and are willing to trade off a bit of low rpm torque , the crower solid lifter above is one choice, and it maintains most of the street drive-ability , ....want to have a lot more hp, and a lumpy idle?
I use this cam a lot,(below), its not all that street friendly below about 2400rpm, but your driving style will have a great deal to do with how you perceive its power curve on a street car with your 3.73:1 rear gear and manual trans in that corvette!

http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show ... vl=2&prt=5

HERES a cam I frequently use in similar engine builds to your corvettes, its NOT a great low rpm (1600rpm-2300rpm)cruising cam ,but it makes darn nice power above 3600rpm-6500rpm in a 383 like your building, BTW I USUALLY suggest 1.6:1 roller rockers with the crane cam as once you get into cams of that durration range the extra lift and lower friction and oil temps are a big help. its a very good choice if your more interested in the power curve than the ease of driving in traffic and cruising with your vette, over long distances
EVERY CHOICE YOU MAKE IS A COMPROMISE IN SOME AREA, YOU MUST MAKE THE JUDGEMENT CALLS ON WHATS IMPORTANT TO YOUR CAR AND DRIVING STYLE.
 
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