how far away can I shoot"

grumpyvette

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Staff member
jack said:
hey paul, just picked up a 243 carbine with a 20" barrel, it shoots decent 1.2" HUNDRED YARD groups but I,m wondering what the calibers capable of as far as reasonable ranges on deer?

the act of shooting, while hunting, is by design meant to allow the hunter to efficiently kill game in this context,for me Id say each individual shot will be a judgement call, mostly based on conditions under which the game is located at the time,and available angles and conditions.
you kill game by effectively destroying vital internal organs, to do that you need to reach and penetrate through those organs, and the light bullets of a 6mm do that remarkably well for a limited distance after impact (certainly far enough to kill even ELK under near ideal broadside chest shots) , but they won,t penetrate like some heavier calibers with 150% or even two to three times the bullet mass, so raking angle shots are best avoided.
A 6mm is a light recoil caliber that's generally suggested as a beginners rifle,but in my opinion its best used by experienced hunters who understand its strengths and limitations.
I have had good results using 95 and 100 grain bullets in a very similar 6mm Remington rifle with a 2x7x scope on mule deer.
Id have zero problem hitting a deer at 500 yards shooting from a solid prone position,at a standing, broadside, deer in bright sun light on a calm day, but under some conditions,like in the rain on a trotting deer,or at a raking angle, Id be rather reluctant to shoot at over 60 yards. its not the rifle alone or caliber alone thats the only factor. I own a 6mm rem and a 257 wby , both excellent and accurate rifles , but there reasonable limits on what any rifle or its operator can be expected to do without potential shot placement issues in my experience.
in my opinion the 6mm projectiles are decent deer killers provided you can get them directly impacting into the heart/lung area but from experience,Id say they won,t penetrate like a 150 grain 270caliber or a 165 grain 30 caliber I frequently use on deer,will so some operator judgement before you shoot is called for.how far you can be FROM THE GAME is limited by the distance YOU CAN BE AND STILL can place your shot exactly WHERE ITS NEEDED UNDER THE CONDITIONS YOUR FORCED TO WORK WITH.
I watch the guys and what they bring into camp on the years I can get free to hunt, and theres very pronounced trends, in the 1970-80s big scopes and magnums were common, now at least among the old geezers ,
the 358 win BLR and 35 whelen in both remington slide actions and bolt actions were very common in camp the last few years and 2x7 and 4x scopes were the most common, the consensus seems to be that carrying anything heavier or that kicks harder is neither needed or worth the effort and while guys used to brag about making long range shots now they brag about getting into bayonet range before shooting
all the magazines will tell you you'll want a rifle that has long range and flat trajectory, and yeah, thats certainly no
handicap, but in 50 years of hunting elk I can only think of two or three times a BLR in caliber 450 marlin, would not have been perfectly acceptable, simply because you seldom see game at over 200 yards and ranges under 100 yards are common
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elkcon3.jpg

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much of the area looks similar too these pictures I found posted elseware
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http://www.rubsnscrapes.com/Articles/de ... natomy.php

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/373413 ... uctFinding

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...e-scope-30mm-tube-5-20x-50mm-side-focus-matte

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/160112 ... uctFinding
 
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guys worry far too much about their equipment, and small differences, in rifles ammo etc. and tend to ignore the important stuff like your physical condition, keeping warm and dry and well fed on a hunt, and studying topo maps. Id bet good boots and socks vs badly fitting boots, and having a warm sleeping bag vs freezing your butt at night, have had a bigger effect on a hunts outcome that rifle calibers, being used, and getting into an area a few days early to get used to the altitude before strenuous activity prior to a hunt starting, preventing altitude sickness, has sure helped more, and spending an hour a day for a few months prior to a hunt in 4 15 minute sessions on a tread mill or running laps will sure benefit you more than any change in bullet design between a 180-200 grain bullet.
I can,t help smiling reading through this thread and thinking back 35 plus years when two of the guys in our elk hunt club had this big debate on the merits of the hornady 190 grain vs the speer 200 grain 30 caliber bullets.
I do most of the hand loading of ammo, for most of the members and either bullet can be loaded to similar velocities.
these guys got a whole bunch of old wet phone books and did penetration tests because they were curious, concerning penetration, and just if your curious the hornady usually penetrated a bit deeper, the speer opened faster,
(btw both bullets are accurate)but the end result was over at least a decade of hunting both projectiles proved very lethal on elk, so it mattered not a bit what was used.I know, that in 30 plus years neither guy has killed an elk at over 300 yards, and regardless of which bullet is used,a good shot in the heart/lung area results in a dead elk.

http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.a ... er&Source=
Magnum_Man said:
340 mag I appreciate your Whelen posts and understand your usage of the 250 Speer. A few questions, 1. were the 250 Hornady bullets the SP or the RN? 2. I always use the 225 NPT in the Whelen ,have you tried them? Again I appreciate your sharing your collective Whelen experience. Magnum man

back in the 1960-1970s long barrel bolt action magnums with flat trajectories like the 300 mag and 7mm mags were very common, in camp,slowly the members have gradually changed to use of shorter carbines with shorter barrels and using heavier caliber cartridges, as it became obvious that ranges were short and it was important to drop game before it traveled far as the thick timber could make tracking a P.I.T.A.
Ive never used or found a reason to try the Nosler Partitions in my whelen or my 358 win BLR, as the 250 grain speers seem to work almost ideally at the impact velocity they get used at, I have used the 250 grain hornady spire points, which I would use again if the 250 grain SPEERS were hard to get.
like I stated earlier the jackets seem to be a bit more rigid or impact resistant, on the hornady design, and the result is a bit slower expansion, but certainly not a problem. now I have used the nosler 250 grain .338, in my 340 wby and while I can hear the screams now from saying this, I found no real advantage over the 250 grain hornady spire points.
Ive shot a couple elk in the chest that were facing me with that hornady 250 grain in my 340 wby,and found the bullets in the gut or ham, certainly providing adequate penetration.here the 340 wby pushes the 250 grain to near 2900 fps and the hornadys more rigid copper jacket is an advantage, but remember the velocity at the muzzle is nearly 500 fps greater , the whelen pushes a 250 grain to about 2450 fps the wby 340 pushes the same weight to 2950 fps
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... -100-Count

NOSLER 250 grains cost twice as much and in my opinion don,t provide twice the performance , the hornady has worked out fine for ME. yes you might feel differently and if you feel theres an advantage then by all means make the choice than you feel matches your needs the best.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... n-50-Count

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... -100-Count

http://www.35cal.com/loading.html

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/amm ... en_200804/

ID also point out
I still use my 35 whelen 7600 pump action,and 358 win blr in far different and much more timbered areas where ranges seldom exceed 100 yards and in 45 plus years I can,t remember taking a single shot with the 358 BLR or 35 whelen pump that exceeded 250 yards
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remember I tend to hunt, and favor hunting in timbered canyons almost exclusively which may not look anything like where you hunt, so my experiences might be different,look at these pictures to get a idea, a couple years back we had a club meeting and we took a brief survey and in 30 plus years not a single member had even had the opportunity to see or shoot at any elk out at 300 yards, most were shot at an average ranges closer to 120 yards which means a good amount were shot at 30-60 yards in the thick timber
deepcreek.JPG

col1.jpg
 
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