if you go with statistical data, most lethal confrontations are at under 10 yards and under 6 shots are fired,
the truth is each situation is different and unpredictable,
you won,t know how far, or how many shots are needed until the threats over,
,you'll want to have the ability to keep shooting until the threat is no longer present.
guys point to the military swapping to the 9mm,
this was never intended to be a soldiers primary weapon.
keep in mind only hits to the attacker's vitals really mater.
even a 22lr can be lethal,
but Id point out that most law enforcement suggests a 9mm-38 spc, 40 cal,
is about the minimum required, and personally Id want a minimum of 6 shots ,
in a revolver or 10 cartridges in a semi auto and Id carry a spare mag or a couple speed reloader's for any revolver
and experiences of thousands of handgun shootings suggest recoil levels ,
with the 41 mag and larger handguns is generally not conductive too rapid accurate shooting.
but its been my experience that with practice a 41-44 mag, revolver,loaded,
with proper ammo is easy to manage,
while theres plenty of evidence that shows its where you hit an adversary ,
more that what pistol or revolver was used,handguns punch holes, rifles and shotguns,
have been proven to be more effective, but are not easy to carry or conceal.
I think you choice in cartridge and handgun selected does mater a good deal!
Ive used both a revolver and semi auto handgun to hunt deer and hogs,for decades,
and theres a very noticeable difference in the reaction too a well placed hit in the right place,
and its obvious that a 9mm or 45 acp has no where near the same instantaneous effect.
a 41-44 mag revolver has a pronounced and obviously more devastating reaction,
compared to very similar hits with a 9mm-40 or 45 acp.
a 445 DWSM or 454 cassul are very effective.
now I'm certainly not suggesting you need a magnum, for personal defense,
and certainly a well placed hit from a 38 or 9mm is lethal
but if your life may depend on getting rapid incapacitation of your antagonist,
you may benefit from carrying the more powerful caliber choices available,
IF you can handle the handgun fast and effectively and are willing to carry it daily,
and
IF your willing to practice with your personal choice in weaponry consistently.
every choice you make is a compromise think through your options carefully
it does you little good to know your attacker will eventually bleed out and die 15 to 45 minutes,
after hes killed you, with that knife over $30 in your wallet,
because you selected an easy to conceal pistol,
that was hard to operate or hit with, that did not rapidly,
incapacitate your attacker.
the FBI has determined that a pistol or rifle projectile that will consistently exceed at least 12" of penetration, but not exceed about 18" of penetration in ballistic gel to produce the desired results on a human target without having a huge potential for producing external damage well beyond the intended target once it passed through that target.
S&W 1006 10mm
www.youtube.com
personally I've come to see the 357 mag, 10mm and 41 mag as about the ideal compromise in power potential range, accuracy, penetration and accuracy in controllable size and concealable handguns , provided the correct ammos used in a quality handgun of course, in the ideal world you want the ability to rapidly and repeatedly and accurately place your shots out to a reasonable distance, that means excessive recoil is to be avoided, of course your skill and practice level effects your choice and ability to do that.
these would be effective but may not be especially easy to conceal
the 10mm pistols (glock and 1006 & S&W)Ive used for decades both shoot best ,
with the 175- 200 grain bullet molds alloy used is 95% ww and 5% pure tin.
I would strongly suggest you DON,T try for absolute max velocity/pressure loads as generally accuracy suffers a great deal,
and cases get damaged if unsupported
in the feed ramp area of the barrel.
while a load that's only 25-50-75 fps lower may produce very good consistent accuracy, and goo case life.
from a practical stand point I feel the 10mm is a bit better/ ( marginally more power) than the 357 mag,
and its designed for semi-auto pistol use.
well lubed cast bullets produce far lower bore wear than jacketed projectiles.
bullets in the 175-200 grain range provide a consistent bearing surface for accuracy with cast designs, lighter weight cast bullets, may not at peak velocity.
blue dot and herc 2400 has been the powder,s of choice,
as with all handguns precise shot placement is critical to getting good results,
hard cast bullets tend to penetrate far better/further than hollow point jacketed bullets
if you miss the games vitals thats not going to be hugely advantageous, but given the fact
,youll seldom have game standing at the precise ideal range or angle,
so extra potential penetration is generally helpful
https://www.starlinebrass.com/10mm-auto-brass/
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010210259?pid=569185
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010268184?pid=330120
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010264544?pid=224747
http://10mm-reloaded.com/barrier_testing/10mm_barrier_testing_V1_PT1.html
http://10mm-reloaded.com/barrier_testing/10mm_barrier_testing_V1_PT1.html
http://10mm-reloaded.com/load_data/10mmAllPowders.html
https://gunworld.com/ammo/loading-the-versatile-10mm-auto/
ive used blue dot in 10mm almost exclusively for good results
Accurate Arms manual ( 2010 data ) using no 9 powder---------
155gr AA#9 15.9gr 1414 fps
165gr AA#9 15.0gr 1341 fps
180gr AA#9 13.5gr 1242 fps
180 Speer JHP: AA#9 14.5gr 1290fps 32,600psi ( AA Manual #2)
180 XTP: AA#9 13.5gr 1242fps 34,100 psi ( AA Manual #2 )
200gr AA#9 12.5gr 1170 fps
Hodgdon manual (2010 data) -------------------------
135gr Autocomp 9.5gr 1476fps 34,500 psi
155gr Autocomp 8.9gr 1362fps 35,700 psi
155gr IMR 800-X 9.8gr 1350fps 30,000 psi *NOTE PRESSURE
180gr IMR 800-X 9.7gr 1320fps 34,200psi ( 2004 IMR manual )
180gr Longshot 9.5gr 1287fps 34,800 psi
200gr Longshot 8.2gr 1172fps 35,000 psi
***note Autocomp is a Winchester powder
Accurate Manual (edition 3.2.2) re AA#7
180gr Hornady XTP (JHP) with a max of 10.7 grains AA#7
180gr Ranier plated HP, with a max of 11.0 grains AA#7
190gr Sierra FPJ with a max of 11.2 grains AA#7
Alliant Manual (2010 data)-------------------------
180gr Speer GDHP bullet
180gr Blue Dot 11gr 1295fps
165gr Speer GoldDot Power Pistol 10gr 1314fps
Hornady 7th edition Manual------------------------
Hornady’s 180gr bullets MAX: AA #7 12.0 gr @ 1200 fps
155gr HP XTP MAX: AA#7 14.6gr.
Speer #14 Manual-------- 5” barrel
180gr GDHP or TMJ-FN MAX BlueDot 11.0gr @ 1295 fps.
Strangely, this Speer manual does not list AA No.9
for 180gr bullets, but does for some of its lighter bullets in 10mm.
https://www.speer-ammo.com/download...gun/40_caliber-10mm_400_dia/10mm_Auto_180.pdf
https://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/powder-coat-bullets.15641/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bullet-lube.4835/#post-84993
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-hard-cast-lead-projectiles.9875/#post-73355
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/casting-alloy-related.2286/#post-6103
reading these links may help.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/...n=/digest/how-many-rounds-you-need-carry-gun/
https://gundigest.com/handguns/concealed-carry/best-caliber-self-defense-concealed-carry-ammo
https://www.ammoland.com/2014/02/am...when-carrying-for-self-defense/#axzz5np6G1BO8
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-shot-capacity-in-a-defensive-handgun.16412/
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/ammo-capacity-how-much-enough
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...ets-do-you-need-in-your-home-defense-handgun/
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-and-how-to-rotate-ammo/
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-ballistics-gel-works/
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
the truth is each situation is different and unpredictable,
you won,t know how far, or how many shots are needed until the threats over,
,you'll want to have the ability to keep shooting until the threat is no longer present.
guys point to the military swapping to the 9mm,
this was never intended to be a soldiers primary weapon.
keep in mind only hits to the attacker's vitals really mater.
even a 22lr can be lethal,
but Id point out that most law enforcement suggests a 9mm-38 spc, 40 cal,
is about the minimum required, and personally Id want a minimum of 6 shots ,
in a revolver or 10 cartridges in a semi auto and Id carry a spare mag or a couple speed reloader's for any revolver
and experiences of thousands of handgun shootings suggest recoil levels ,
with the 41 mag and larger handguns is generally not conductive too rapid accurate shooting.
but its been my experience that with practice a 41-44 mag, revolver,loaded,
with proper ammo is easy to manage,
while theres plenty of evidence that shows its where you hit an adversary ,
more that what pistol or revolver was used,handguns punch holes, rifles and shotguns,
have been proven to be more effective, but are not easy to carry or conceal.
I think you choice in cartridge and handgun selected does mater a good deal!
Ive used both a revolver and semi auto handgun to hunt deer and hogs,for decades,
and theres a very noticeable difference in the reaction too a well placed hit in the right place,
and its obvious that a 9mm or 45 acp has no where near the same instantaneous effect.
a 41-44 mag revolver has a pronounced and obviously more devastating reaction,
compared to very similar hits with a 9mm-40 or 45 acp.
a 445 DWSM or 454 cassul are very effective.
now I'm certainly not suggesting you need a magnum, for personal defense,
and certainly a well placed hit from a 38 or 9mm is lethal
but if your life may depend on getting rapid incapacitation of your antagonist,
you may benefit from carrying the more powerful caliber choices available,
IF you can handle the handgun fast and effectively and are willing to carry it daily,
and
IF your willing to practice with your personal choice in weaponry consistently.
every choice you make is a compromise think through your options carefully
it does you little good to know your attacker will eventually bleed out and die 15 to 45 minutes,
after hes killed you, with that knife over $30 in your wallet,
because you selected an easy to conceal pistol,
that was hard to operate or hit with, that did not rapidly,
incapacitate your attacker.
the FBI has determined that a pistol or rifle projectile that will consistently exceed at least 12" of penetration, but not exceed about 18" of penetration in ballistic gel to produce the desired results on a human target without having a huge potential for producing external damage well beyond the intended target once it passed through that target.
S&W 1006 10mm
10mm Auto Self-Defense Ammo Ballistic Gel Tests - LuckyGunner.com Labs
So far, our ballistics gelatin testing project has covered 184 different factory loads split across today’s six most popular handgun ... Continued
www.luckygunner.com
.38 Special and .357 Magnum Self-Defense Ammo Ballistics Test - LuckyGunner.com Labs
We conducted ballistics gelatin tests for 38 self-defense revolver loads in 38 Special and 357 Magnum. Here are the full results along with photos and video
www.luckygunner.com
10mm vs. .41 magnum for Bears
Note: We were shooting at a safe range with a safe backstop. Please do not try this at home. We are not advocating the sale of these firearms or ammunition. ...
www.youtube.com
these would be effective but may not be especially easy to conceal
the 10mm pistols (glock and 1006 & S&W)Ive used for decades both shoot best ,
with the 175- 200 grain bullet molds alloy used is 95% ww and 5% pure tin.
I would strongly suggest you DON,T try for absolute max velocity/pressure loads as generally accuracy suffers a great deal,
and cases get damaged if unsupported
in the feed ramp area of the barrel.
while a load that's only 25-50-75 fps lower may produce very good consistent accuracy, and goo case life.
from a practical stand point I feel the 10mm is a bit better/ ( marginally more power) than the 357 mag,
and its designed for semi-auto pistol use.
well lubed cast bullets produce far lower bore wear than jacketed projectiles.
bullets in the 175-200 grain range provide a consistent bearing surface for accuracy with cast designs, lighter weight cast bullets, may not at peak velocity.
blue dot and herc 2400 has been the powder,s of choice,
as with all handguns precise shot placement is critical to getting good results,
hard cast bullets tend to penetrate far better/further than hollow point jacketed bullets
if you miss the games vitals thats not going to be hugely advantageous, but given the fact
,youll seldom have game standing at the precise ideal range or angle,
so extra potential penetration is generally helpful
https://www.starlinebrass.com/10mm-auto-brass/
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010210259?pid=569185
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010268184?pid=330120
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010264544?pid=224747
http://10mm-reloaded.com/barrier_testing/10mm_barrier_testing_V1_PT1.html
http://10mm-reloaded.com/barrier_testing/10mm_barrier_testing_V1_PT1.html
http://10mm-reloaded.com/load_data/10mmAllPowders.html
https://gunworld.com/ammo/loading-the-versatile-10mm-auto/
ive used blue dot in 10mm almost exclusively for good results
Accurate Arms manual ( 2010 data ) using no 9 powder---------
155gr AA#9 15.9gr 1414 fps
165gr AA#9 15.0gr 1341 fps
180gr AA#9 13.5gr 1242 fps
180 Speer JHP: AA#9 14.5gr 1290fps 32,600psi ( AA Manual #2)
180 XTP: AA#9 13.5gr 1242fps 34,100 psi ( AA Manual #2 )
200gr AA#9 12.5gr 1170 fps
Hodgdon manual (2010 data) -------------------------
135gr Autocomp 9.5gr 1476fps 34,500 psi
155gr Autocomp 8.9gr 1362fps 35,700 psi
155gr IMR 800-X 9.8gr 1350fps 30,000 psi *NOTE PRESSURE
180gr IMR 800-X 9.7gr 1320fps 34,200psi ( 2004 IMR manual )
180gr Longshot 9.5gr 1287fps 34,800 psi
200gr Longshot 8.2gr 1172fps 35,000 psi
***note Autocomp is a Winchester powder
Accurate Manual (edition 3.2.2) re AA#7
180gr Hornady XTP (JHP) with a max of 10.7 grains AA#7
180gr Ranier plated HP, with a max of 11.0 grains AA#7
190gr Sierra FPJ with a max of 11.2 grains AA#7
Alliant Manual (2010 data)-------------------------
180gr Speer GDHP bullet
180gr Blue Dot 11gr 1295fps
165gr Speer GoldDot Power Pistol 10gr 1314fps
Hornady 7th edition Manual------------------------
Hornady’s 180gr bullets MAX: AA #7 12.0 gr @ 1200 fps
155gr HP XTP MAX: AA#7 14.6gr.
Speer #14 Manual-------- 5” barrel
180gr GDHP or TMJ-FN MAX BlueDot 11.0gr @ 1295 fps.
Strangely, this Speer manual does not list AA No.9
for 180gr bullets, but does for some of its lighter bullets in 10mm.
https://www.speer-ammo.com/download...gun/40_caliber-10mm_400_dia/10mm_Auto_180.pdf
https://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/powder-coat-bullets.15641/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bullet-lube.4835/#post-84993
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-hard-cast-lead-projectiles.9875/#post-73355
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/casting-alloy-related.2286/#post-6103
reading these links may help.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/...n=/digest/how-many-rounds-you-need-carry-gun/
https://gundigest.com/handguns/concealed-carry/best-caliber-self-defense-concealed-carry-ammo
https://www.ammoland.com/2014/02/am...when-carrying-for-self-defense/#axzz5np6G1BO8
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-shot-capacity-in-a-defensive-handgun.16412/
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/ammo-capacity-how-much-enough
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...ets-do-you-need-in-your-home-defense-handgun/
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-and-how-to-rotate-ammo/
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-ballistics-gel-works/
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
Last edited:
