how many guys hunt ELK ?

grumpyvette

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Staff member
Ive hunted DEER and ELK for almost 40 years now, rifle,archery,muzzle loaders, if theres a season and IF Ive got the time and cash you'll find me in the mountains of Colorado,Wyoming ETC.
given a choice Ill prefer still hunting the aspens and conifers with a rifle, but almost any excuse used for getting into the mountains in autumn for a couple weeks will do
think drugs are bad for you

ELK HUNTING has you beat badly

when hunting ELK you pay THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS for EQUIPMENT, so you can PAY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS in things like licenses fees, and travel costs, spend days or at least hours, and usually pay guide fees so you can spend 7-14 days sleeping in a tent with at least one guy who snores, and you get to spend most of the year avoiding getting into physical shape you KNOW you need to be in to function, then spend several months both forcing yourself to exercise , knowing that NOTHING you can do at sea level helps much to prepare you, for the mountains, and worrying about if you've selected the correct location so you can spend your time learning to run or crawl up mountain slopes at 7000-11,000 feet altitude while you puke and have migraine headaches as altitude sickness kicks you butt,you spend dawn to dusk either over heated or freezing your butt off, in the hope that you can shoot a damn 450lb-700lb elk, and carry his body out in several 70 lb back packs, on several trips into and out of a canyon,(usually covered in mud loose shale, thick brush or snow) loaded with meat , for the 2-5 miles hike out of some steep canyon, (ELK ALWAYS seem to live in the next canyon, never above your camp) where you slip and fall on your face at least every 1/2 hour , while you try hard to give yourself a heart attack , while asking your freinds if your having fun yet?
and do it year after year, and even look forward to it, in fact you feel cheated if you miss a season.
why not call the local game department biologist and ask a few questions then the local game warden, for his input,
about the area that you intend to hunt before making a decision, I found that generally helps improve your success rate a bit.
i generally hunt the area north or south, of gypsum meeker, or eagle Colorado the officers are generally willing to talk with you if your polite, brief and have specific detailed questions

Ive hunted elk mostly in Colorado and Wyoming about every other year , sometimes I get two or three years in a row, or two states in succession in one year, hunting for over 50 years,
guys worry far too much about rifles caliber and long range , I think all but two of the elk Ive shot were at well under 200 yards and any decent 30/06 would have got the job done splendidly.
I prefer and have a great deal of confidence in my 340 wby and 375 H&H, but my late hunting partner used a 358 win BLR for decades successfully, the key is not in the rifle or cartridge is mostly in being in good physical shape, confidence in your selected skills and equipment, research on the area hunted, and knowing how to find game and dogged unrelenting persistence. If you look over the kill statistics most states show less than a 25% kill ratio to licences in even good areas, in my opinion thats simply because if you drive around any area youll see guys sitting in camp at any time of the day after the first two or three days and most guys pack it in well before the seasons over.
 
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pictures of elk hunting territory
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this is NOT a bull I shot, its simply a picture I found posted, and the other pictures pretty well depict what looks similar too average elk hunting country near where IVE hunted but it gives you a good idea of the typical area you still hunt, so you get some idea why I say a long range rifles not mandatory and why one of my hunting partners used a 358 win BLR for 25 years and thought it was the ideal elk rifle, almost any rifle that hits hard out to 300 yards will do fine in my experience.

after dozens of elk hunts in Colorado and Wyoming, I learned you can,t assume you can wonder around a particular area that may look good or one conveniently located close to where your camped,
Successfully looking to find elk, requires, you to cover a good deal of topography and have a decent understanding of what the elk need and are looking to avoid.
it also helps if you have a good understanding of the natural terrain choke points, preferred browse/feed, cover, escape,routes,, bedding areas, water access.etc.
generally most guys won,t get more than a mile off logging road access simply because its too hard to retrieve a downed elk and pack it out where no motor vehicle access is allowed.
you can also find real honey spots if you hunt areas that require you wade creeks or climb or descend into canyons,
I can,t begin to tell you how many times I hunted canyons and had new guys after 1- or- 2 days sit out the rest of the trip hunting near camp rather than climb in and out of canyon country,
as a consequence, I generally learn to pack fairly light, I'm prepared to spend the night if its required and I rarely see other hunters after opening day, in the rather remote canyon country.


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LOWER CANYON
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upper canyon
picture yourself slowly walking, in a walk 20-40 yards ,stop and glass,for 10-12 minutes, along the slope on one side of the canyon about 200 yards up from the bottom while your hunting companion walks the opposite slope , you'll find this method quite effective, especially if a second pair of hunters start hunting from the opposite end of the canyon, elk spotting one hunter will generally move making them more easily seen from the opposite slope.
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a good deal of the area looked similar to this
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each of our personal experiences accumulate over time and each while probably significant different has a profound effect on what we personally see as the ideal equipment list , and colors our choices.
I prefer to hunt out of a back pack, think mountain man, tactics with very limited minimal but better more modern equipment choices
most of my fellow elk hunters in my group think I'm at least a marginal masochist, because I will almost always, leave camp and am perfectly comfortable under conditions many feel are not tolerable.
personally I want to cover ground , but leave no trace I was there, I select a light flexible but totally durable back pack, minimal equipment,
a fairly powerful rifle like a 375 H&H or 340 WBY a 22lr revolver,a kukri, and a -10F rated sleeping bag , and a parka and poncho, a couple 2 ltr bottle canteens a few tools, mres, and think little of spending 3-4 days away from camp.
if your not afraid of getting lost,, not all that concerned with having more than one meal a day, not worried about spending nights sleeping sitting against , or laying under, a large over hanging conifer, tree,
even if the temps drop and your waking up under a foot of fresh snow, miles from your truck, I can totally enjoy the hunt..
too many guys are convinced they must be back in camp at dark, too many guys in my opinion think they must have a hot meal and a camp fire.
I cover a good deal of carefully pre-selected, terrain, but I don,t travel fast, Im just persistent, I really don,t care where I am at dawn or dusk, I just want to find a decent elk,
most of the guys in our club want to sit around a camp fire and drink beer at night back at the truck.
I've never been all that concerned with huge antlers but yeah Id prefer to shoot something impressive just like most of you.
this style of hunt is obviously not that popular as only a few of they guys Ive hunted with wanted to repeat the hunts even when I'm successful most years, AT least 50% of the trips in at least getting a decent mule deer or elk.
I read the post above and had to ask... why the 375 H&H?]

The simple answer, I carry and use what I'm 100% sure works,and what I personally feel is the best choice, for me.
I would Not be overly concerned with the choice in rifles or caliber,
my late hunting partner used nothing but a 358 BLR loaded with 250 grain speer bullets
and my new hunting partner,is absolutely convinced that anything less than a 270 win loaded with 150 grain boat tail bullets will bounce off anything with fur.
the truth is that anything Ive seen used from a 257 roberts to a 458 win, works,
if you can place your shots accurately. (that does not mean a larger caliber won,t hit harder ,but dead, is dead and a 257 roberts 100 grain bullet placed in the heart/lungs is leathal)
your issue is NOT power its confidence in your rifle and Your ability to use it!
personally I've come to like the 340 WBY and 375 H&H, everything I've ever shot, with either rifle drops fairly close to the point of bullet impact,
but I can say the same for Rons 358 win and Bills 270 win
the main issue you face is finding a viable legal elk thats well inside your comfortable rifle range and placing your shot well,
thus good clear binoculars, the ability to read and accurately interpret topo maps, and good boots and the ability to stay warm & dry and in the field from before dawn to after dark,
to maximize,,your chances of being in the right place at the correct time is more critical.
Id bet theres thousands of Elk that are still wondering colorado each year simply because, many guys hunt hard the first two too three days, get frustrated & exhausted,
and spend the rest of the week or so sitting around camp or driving around looking for elk out of the trucks window rather than,
checking out the small side canyons, that might require a hour or so walking to gain access.
PERSISTENCE MATTERS, YOUR PHYSICAL CONDITION, and YOUR ABILITY TO SHOOT ACCURATELY MATTERS
BEING in the correct location at the correct time is not 100% due to luck! you can swing the odds in your favor,
simply by being in a reasonably likely location during the vast majority of the season rather than cooking hod dogs and drinking beer in camp.


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Ummm - what do you do with the remains of the animal? Barbecue? Really big one?
 
a freezer and lots of ziploc bags and freezer paper is usually first stop followed by bar-bey-ques, stews, and assorted roasts
Ive found ELK based CHILLI to be a darn good choice , as is various spaghetti sauces and making breakfast sausages
ground elk meat mixed about 70% elk and 30% ground bacon, and just a bit of HABANARO PEPPERS (about 7-to-8 lbs of ground meat mix per single finely diced pepper and a bit of molasses (about 1/4 cup) makes great breakfast sausages) you can make and freeze for future use.
making smoked jerky is another option


http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/he ... #Equipment

http://www.sausagemania.com/

http://www.sausagemania.com/stuffers.html

http://www.smoking-meat.com/

http://www.sausagemaker.com/smokehouses ... okers.aspx
 
heres a few tips

(1) never go on an out of state elk hunt with several guys you don,t really know,for at least a year or more, and guys you have hunted with locally, because without fail at least one of them will be a lazy cheap bastard that won,t pull his weight or do his share of the work or pay his share of expenses as PREVIOUSLY AGREED TO IN EXPLICIT DETAIL, LONG before trip started.
once your on the out of state hunt , the circumstances tend to bring out the best or worst personality traits

(2)a good many times I could not afford both an elk and mule deer tags, and on those years when I just got the elk tag alone, it was almost an iron clad guarantee Id see a few real wall hanger mule deer.
but If I purchased a mule deer tag Id see dozens of crappy quality 3 and 4 point deer.

(3) not having snow chains and elastic cord clips almost always insured getting heavy snow.

(4) your NEVER going to be in great enough shape, and if you don,t put in some serious pre-trip exercise well before the trip to get into physical shape youll regret it and the trip won,t be nearly as enjoyable


Is anyone else really pissed at the ever increasing licence fees, out of state hunting licences,
the system, allowing those of use that want too hunt, needs to be changed so that the average guy from in or out of state, has a reasonable chance of getting either an over the counter or a random draw hunting licence.
the current system is obviously designed too make bureaucrats money, and reduce access to hunting opportunity.
when I started hunting the process was a whole lot easier, you either mailed in an application,and a check,or went to a wild life/game department office, and bought a hunting licence, over the counter.
restricted draw points, fewer over the counter licences and states requiring you to pay in full for licences months in advance, especially when you can,t hunt where you want too for years at a time?
even in a few states theres laws you can,t hunt the same area two years running.
this is always been a financial as much as game numbers, and hunting quality issue but it seems like a damn race to see which state can price the average blue collar guy totally out of hunting. this is in my opinion, very short sighted, economically for the states that raise the licence costs to more than about $400-$500 for a deer/elk combo.
If most guys are willing to drive out of state to hunt its very easy to spend $1500-$4000 or more PER HUNTER locally in that 7-10 days,on the trip!

I doubt you can find a single state where all the licences total less than $700 and most will cost over $1000 for a deer/and elk combo
I don,t expect prices to remain at the 1960s prices I started with, but now that Im retired spending $2K-$4K on a weeks entertainment takes some of the fun out of the trip.
here in FLORIDA the local resident guys over 65 no longer are required to buy a hunting licence ,
Id love to see some discount in the price for the non-resident guys over 65 even if it was just a couple hundred $
http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/licenses/all/nonresidentCombo.html

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Hunting/WGFD_APPNARRATIVE

http://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Pages/BigGameDatesandFees.aspx

https://idfg.idaho.gov/licenses/fees-nonresident

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/licensing/hunting

While I doubt res will ever pay the same tag fees non-res pay, just imagine if residents had to pay those fees...? I bet less than 10% of residents would even bother applying anymore.

I don,t think a lot of the politicians and game department's fully appreciate the full economic impact, or amount of money that INDIRECTLY gets fed, into that economy with the out of state hunter , coming into the state to hunt, in car/truck fuel, food car/truck rentals,motel, restaurant,super market, guide service fees,and miscellaneous purchases or is MISSING into the states economy when the license fees get raised to the point that guys just decide to skip hunting, yes they profit more on a per licence sold basic but the over all economics make the vastly lower numbers of licences sold , have a very noticeable, and significantly lower economic foot print on the local and state economy. in that particular state, because of the licence cost, I doubt I've ever spent less than $2400 on a weeks elk hunting, and spending $3k plus on a hunt, is very common, keep in mind theres usually three or four guys on any hunt, we either drive out in two trucks or fly in and rent two 4x4 trucks, motel fees restaurants, local sporting goods stores, also benefit, so just our little group will very easily spend at least $6-$8 k in a week in, lodging, fuel, food, guide fees etc. the state and I doubt we were unique in spending that volume of cash, hunting..
in most case the licence fee is not the major expense , but it certainly has a pronounced effect on what states tend to be considered by guys planing to hunt, out of state.
I generally spend several thousand dollars a year on hunts and several years I found I could because of almost overlapping, or consecutive dates, hunt one state, then as that season closed drive to a second state, to hunt the following week.
Colorado, Montana , Idaho, and Wyoming frequently have consecutive dates.
dumping $3-$4 k would be the minimum and several years that would be exceeded by a significant margin,but as those licence fees rise most guys limit the areas and eventually just don,t bother at some point, as the financial cost keeps climbing.
if you are faced with lets say a $600-$700 combo deer/elk hunt licence cost most guys fully accept they will spend 3-4 times that minimum, over that money, spent on licences, on a hunt, but once the licence cost has climbed much higher I see lots of guys in my elk hunt club just decide to hunt deer in some other location , like DEER IN NOVA SCOTIA https://novascotia.ca/natr/hunt/pdf/SummaryBooklet_Sept7.pdf

its not that most guys are CHEAPSKATES, they will be very willing too spending thousands on any hunt, , they just want VALUE for the money
ID also point out that statistically most hunters most years do not succeed so they spent all that cash on a failed chance to collect game, yeah they may have had a memorable vacation and enjoyed it, but they did not really do much more than boost the local economy, in the process.
most hunters in most states have about a 1 in 4 chance of success.
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think about that, statistically if you spent only $2k per hunt, youll spend near $10K statistically before you score on every elk, if theres only 2-3 guys making the trip each year ,out of each local hunt club , and theres thousands if not hundreds of thousands of loosely associated groups of hunters, friends etc. planing and making out of state,hunting trips every fall. in dozens of states vs no one making the trip due too the significant economic cost increase, over time that short sited policy will kill the industry.
 
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What's it like to Elk Hunt Grumpy ?
I have never done that.
Any good stories to share ?
All ears hear .

Brian
 
finding any bull Elk worth shooting on public land ,takes a great deal of research and actually hunting the area you selected too hunt, this usually takes several days of intense scouting, a good deal of knowledge of the terrain, knowledge of the basics of how elk react to hunting pressure, accurate terrain maps, and your ability too shoot accurately from field positions, you obviously have options,where youll hunt what you consider a trophy, and licence costs, guide fees, etc.
Ill point out that theres free range public land hunts in national forest and BLM land and there are private land hunts on open ranches with private land , if youve ever hunted on public land youll have probably looked up the success ratios and found that its generally in the 15%-20% range in most open to the public areas.
professionally guided hunts on private ranches, or areas that require a lottery/draw tag can easily , boost the odds to over 50%
a few years ago one of the guys in our elk hunting club who had only taken one elk, in 4 years of hunting public land decided he wanted to take a guided hunt that guaranteed he would get at least one good chance at a decent 4x4 or better elk.
they charged him at the time about $4K for a 3 day hunt, with a personal guide.
he drove out with a buddy too Montana from Florida, only after he arrived did he find out that guided hunt was on a large ranch and the elk were in a 6000 plus acre enclosed area. (at no time was the fact the hunted area was fenced disclosed during several sales and contract discussions.......since he had already paid in full up front he decided to hunt, the guy he drove out with demanded a refund but the guy running the operation would only return 75% of his down payment ( he had sent 50% down and was to pay off the rest on arrival, ) as that was outlined several times in the contract
he stated he only saw the fence around one part of the area in the three days of hunting and he shot a 4x5 bull that while not a record was impressive.
he felt he had gotten his moneys worth, his partner stayed at the ranch and was totally pissed off, but did not throw a fit like some people I'm sure would have.
I think the lesson learned here is that before you book a hunt youll want to ask pointed detailed questions and ask for 5-6 previous hunters phone numbers to check out their opinions. and yes read the contract carefully
 
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guys were trying to verify or prove a theory , that the political content of the lounge is slowing website growth.
this is simply a required and perhaps temporary step to test that concept,
trying to bye-pass the lack of the lounge by posting in other forums the content,
you wanted to stick in the lounge, won,t help.
yes I'm fully aware this looks like some members are trying to squelch all political debate,
everyone's opinion should be respected,I generally don,t make rash decisions,
we will see the result in time, and make changes as required, from verified facts.
 
Verified facts-- everyone is prejudiced in one form or another because of religious--political beliefs and that will never change as man/woman exists on earth.

Wrong thread I know-- so I can't physically hunt all over the U.S. any more, so I stay close to home where Elk is forbidden to kill here in N.C..
 
the states where you can currently hunt elk, like CO,OR,MT,WY, NM, etc.
are all pricing the sport out of the reach of the average guys,
and as long as they can constantly find people willing to pay the currently exorbitant prices for tags it will continue to get worse.
I doubt you could hunt elk in most areas for less than $1500 a week now,
obviously youll need to research the state and area and state, regs that apply in your preferred area

keep in mind theres lottery draws,that can limit access for years,
need for accumulated preference points,requiring several years between potential hunts.
and other restrictions that can significantly boost,
the true cost and difficulty of getting a licence.

NM=$780
co=$660
wy $740
mt = $888
OR= $590
 
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Id prefer you don,t post info that would have formally gone in the lounge, randomly in the other forums
yeah the removal of the lounge making me a bit crazy also, but its going to be awhile.
yes thats good info
yes Im working on options
 
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