how many guys use a SLUG GUN for hunting

Discussion in 'shotgun related' started by grumpyvette, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    there are seven states that now mandate "shotgun slugs only" either statewide, or in large areas. These are: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Ohio, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and Rhode Island. Then there are 15 more that have regional regs to the same effect: Alabama, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New York, North and South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin. Moreover, two more states, Kentucky and Maine, will probably go the partial route, if not for this season, then in '97.

    There was a long time when many of these states couldn't decide just what to make of these new-fangled shotguns with rifled bores. Were they shotguns or rifles? Were they legal in the context of the existing game laws? Fortunately, all have resolved the issue and none of the 22 aforementioned states disallow the rifled barrel.

    I've said before, if you do business where there are no bans against the use of high-power rifles for hunting, you needn't concern yourself with what's happening on the slug scene. But if that's not the case, there's something for you to bone up on this year.

    With Savage and Mossberg having entered the market with fully-rifled, bolt-action slug guns, that now brings to four the number of major manufacturers to have done so. Last year, Browning and Marlin did it.

    I've just finished testing the two new guns, the Mossberg 695 and the Savage 210. The former is derived from an action Mossberg's been using for decades as a basis for a budget line of shotguns. Savage, on the other hand, had no such existing action and designed one from scratch, based on the 3-inch 12-gauge shotshell.

    Since this is not GUNS magazine where new firearms are reported on in depth, suffice to say that these guns are capable of some pretty astounding accuracy - like 2 1/2-inch groups from the bench at 100 yards. Not only are the sabot loads of Federal, Winchester, Lightfield - and the Copper Solids of Remington - accurate, but they virtually double the effective range of the old Foster-type slugs when used in smoothbores.

    Despite all this newfound potential, however, these guns are still 125-yard Whitetail and Black Bear rigs, period. Along this vein, I've heard that some of my gun-writing colleagues have commented that these guns are effective out to 175 and even 200 yards. Not only is this not true, but to even hint that the rifled slug gun with sabots is lethal out to 200 yards is a great disservice to both the industry and the hunting fraternity. ... g-box-of-5

    these bolt action shotguns have rifled bore designed to stabilize slugs YES THERES A LOWER RECOIL 20GA VERSION

    anyone that thinks buck shots a great option for bear or elk, really should stack up three sheets of 2 ft x 2 ft square sheets or 3/4" plywood ,
    and place a target on it , staple a sheet of typing paper 8.5" x 11" horizontally as a representative kill /vital zone
    place the target stack of plywood out at 50 yards
    fire two quick shots , with buckshot, if you do have buckshot hit the kill zone look at the rear of the plywood for buck shot pellet exits
    your not going to find repeat the process with slugs, in most cases they both hit the kill zone and exit the stack of ply wood, think that over
    your potentially going to get out and look for that bear, do you want a dead bear or one highly motivated to get revenge on the cause of his injury.
    yes they also make it in 20 ga for the guys that are very recoil sensitive
    personally I want the 12 ga version, but I know several guys with both ga versions and both versions work,
    on the deer and hogs Ive seen shot,
    but theres no real comparison in how hard they hit
    and as always proper shot placement and a knowledge of the games anatomy is required

    (1)call and talk to the local game department biologist, and game wardens
    ask about what the bears eat in your area, at this time of year,
    and where they travel, and population density's
    (2) get a topo map of the areas you intend to hunt (get out and scout and start exercising)
    (3) personally Id suggest you use a high quality scope , with decent low light optics ,
    on a rifle that has at least about 2700 ft lbs of energy with a 150-250 grain bullet
    think 270 win, 308 win,358 win or a bit more.
    (4)practice shooting from field positions, not off a bench rest , once the rifles zeroed in correctly
    (5)get a copy of the local hunting regulations
    (6) learn bear anatomy
    (7) bears have a great nose, use scent killer on clothes and boots


    if your restricted to shotgun only areas , your not in as bad shapes as you might at first think!
    these rifled slug guns do a really good job on deer out to about 140 yards
    my late uncle, used his savage slug gun to kill several large black bears, and while the average range was under 75 yards he stated it slammed them so hard they rarely did more than spin, fall and twitch ... 0152654112

    keep in mind these slugs are loaded inside a plastic shot-cup,
    that compresses and grips the slug, and rifling, in the shotguns bore,
    (if its a rifled bore designed for slugs)
    as its forced down the bore, the slug itself never touches the shotgun bores rifling , which acts as a sabot thats discarded as it leaves the bore.
    you can buy a mold and cast your own at a considerable cost savings if you reload.

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2018
  2. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member ... 0152654112


    these work reasonably well in my rifled slug gun

    This is load data for the 525 Gr. Lyman Sabot Slug. Its tough to format for the forum but the list reads of follows.

    Powder Charge Primer Wad Velocity Pressure

    Federal Gold Medal

    Univ. Clays 36.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1503 10,100
    WSF 34.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1482 11,300
    Herco 32.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1389 11,100
    SR 4756 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1585 10,500
    800X 31.5 Fed 209AWAA12 1459 10,700
    Blue Dot 46.5 Win 209 WAA12R 1544 9,900
    571 42.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1429 10,700

    Federal Plastic Hunting

    Univ. Clays 35.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1442 9,300
    34.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1421 9,200
    Herco 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1297 9,100
    SR 4756 40.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1439 8,300
    800X 30.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1403 9,800
    Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1408 7,300
    571 42.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1405 9,900

    Fiocchi Plastic

    Univ. Clays 34.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1478 10,100
    WSF 31.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1383 10,000
    SR 4756 37.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1396 8,700
    N3SH 36.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1486 9,700
    Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1476 8,800

    Remington RTL (Premier)

    Univ. Clays 29.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1386 10,800
    Unique 23.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1269 11,100
    Herco 25.0 Win 209 WAA12 1249 11,300
    SR 4756 34.0 Rem 209PWAA12R 1448 11,100
    SR 4756 35.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1462 10,900
    Blue Dot 41.0 Rem 209PWAA12F114 1475 11,000
    Blue Dot 43.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1501 11,200

    Remington Unibody SP

    Univ. Clays 32.0 Win 209 WAA12 1416 9,900
    WSF 32.0 Win 209 WAA12 1434 11,400
    Herco 30.0 Win 209 WAA12 1336 10,600
    SR 4756 37.5 Win 209 WAA12F114 1468 10,200
    800X 31.0 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1440 10,700
    Blue Dot 45.5 Win 209 WAA12F114 1482 9,300
    Blue Dot 46.0 Win 209 Fed 12S4 1532 10,600

    Winchester AA

    Univ. Clays 29.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1358 9,700
    Unique 23.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1271 11,100
    Unique 22.5 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1231 10,500
    WSF 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1393 11,000
    WSF 28.0 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1332 10,500
    Herco 25.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1273 10,900
    SR 4756 35.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1378 8,800
    N3SH 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1372 10,100
    Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1474 9,200


    12 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .729 inches. 16 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .662 inches. 20 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .615 inches. 28 Gauge = Bore Diameter of .550 inches.

    if you notice the 58 caliber mini ball mold cast projectile, has the correct diameter to be loaded in a 20 ga plastic shot cup in a 20 ga too effectively work as a slug
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2018
  3. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

  4. rbl2

    rbl2 Well-Known Member

    I'd rather use my .58 muzzle loaders. I didn't say they were better, I said I prefer them to a shotgun slug.
  5. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    I do a good deal of hunting with both a 58cal muzzle loader and a 12 ga slug gun,both are very effective in skilled hands,
    the properly loaded muzzle loader has a bit longer effective range, but the shotgun can be a repeating action, most deer are shot at well under 120 yards so If given a choice Id select the modern slug gun in most cases

    Ive got the 12 ga savage bolt version, I found its extremely accurate with some sabot ammo but a great deal less accurate with some foster type slugs, so if you have several types of ammo test them and try to stock up on what works.
    I also found that the way you hand load shot shells has a huge effect on accuracy, simply swapping wads or powder has a very noticeable effect.

    http://www.buckandslug.webspace.virginm ... sdata.html

    http://www.buckandslug.webspace.virginm ... /load.html ... gauge-1-oz ... -525-grain
  6. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    the question frequently comes up as to if a 12 ga or 20 ga is the better option,
    savage sells more 20 ga guns from the statistics I've read recently.
    the savage bolt action has had at least two different design improvements over the years


    (PG 18)

    the slug guns are both designed to provide adequate accuracy out to about 100 yards,
    some loads in both ga will exceed that but velocity in either ga seldom exceeds about 1650 fps,
    and most loads are a bit slower,
    you don,t necessarily need high velocity to provide accuracy,
    but it helps marginally to flatten trajectory.
    keep in mind shot guns operate at far lower pressure levels than a rifle
    the 12 ga is 525 grain, in weight and 68 caliber .162 sectional density
    the 20 ga is 350 grain, in weight and 576 caliber .152 sectional density

    related info on a different web site youll find helpful!

    if you can easily handle the recoil I personally prefer the 12 ga version,
    it hits harder and you can,t ignore physics, a slightly higher sectional density,
    and considerably greater mass in a 12 ga,
    is going to punch the target harder, but I'm not in the majority.
    with a reasonably well placed hit, either projectile is lethal
    but if your betting on the resulting damage, anchoring your game,
    only a fool would assume the smaller and lighter projectile ,
    was potentially more lethal with
    identical shot placement and velocity .
    now you may prefer the 20 ga for its lower recoil , and its certainly lethal if the shots well placed.
    Ive tried a dozen types of slugs the BRI and the breneki and the hand loads with the lyman's all work rather well, personally I prefer the lyman,s
    as you can cast, and hand load, your own ammo and save a ton of cash if you reload ammo.
    you'll have to see what your particular shotgun prefers
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018

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