hunting hogs

Discussion in 'handgun related' started by Grumpy, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I ran into this internet video
    (LINK BELOW)

    related to hog hunting
    I found it very interesting, in that ,
    I can partially relate ,
    but I find it rather amazing,
    as it seems to show mostly rather un-skilled shots,
    its just not that hard to hit a close moving target after some experience,\
    but I'm guessing they mostly don,t have experience,\
    and yes hogs can and do attack and bite!
    I've very successfully used both a 44 mag revolver and a 44 mag
    loaded with a hard cast 310 grain lee bullets , over a powder charge of 21 grains of H110 powder.
    that combo is very effective when the shots well placed.
    its skill at placing shots and knowing hog anatomy that counts!
    hogs are very common, because of the brush and palmetto thickets they seem to prefer,
    in the mid florida area ranges tend to be under 50-60 yards,
    making most common iron sight rifles and handguns work rather well
    many guys successfully use 357 mags,with hard cast 158-180 grain bullets
    10mm, 41 mag,are popular
    , SKS and M1 carbines AR15 with 62-70 grain bullets
    and shotguns and 30/30, and 44 mag, carbines

    (and certainly not nearly as powerful as a 12 ga shotgun loaded with slugs)
    most of the guys in the video seem to use shot guns,
    but I'm amazed that it looks like the majority of shooters in the video can't shoot accurately,
    and seem reluctant to shoot and continue shooting when the chance to place a shot or more arrives
    [​IMG]
    I.ve also used a 357 mag revolver and a 10mm glock
    but I can assure you while both work,
    and are 100 percent lethal if you can place shots accurately,
    they don,t hit as hard as the 44 mag,
    (WHICH GETS THE JOB DONE VERY NICELY,)
    and
    while you certainly don,t need a,
    480 ruger
    ,445 DWSM
    ,
    454 cassul
    460 S&W
    ,or

    500 S&W revolver,
    all those CALIBER choices pack even more stopping power,
    so if you can handle a bigger revolver they are an option,
    YOU MIGHT CARE TO LOOK AT
    keep in mind that cartridges like the 445 dan wesson
    (an extended length case 44 mag,) or the 454 casull and 460 S&W ( an extended length case, similar to a 45 colt)
    while significantly more powerful than a standard 44 mag, are not necessarily more lethal in skilled hands, but the extra velocity allows longer effective range use.
    and the DAN WESSON REVOLVERS ARE KNOWN TO BE EXCEPTIONALLY ACCURATE and BARRELS ARE EASY TO REPLACE

    [​IMG] http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_hunt_121305/
    [​IMG]

    I would strongly suggest selecting a 6"-10" barrel pistol or revolver for any serious hunting application to maximize velocity and to provide a good sight radias.
    http://www.biggamehunt.net/articles/beginners-guide-big-game-handgun-hunting

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    http://www.ballistics101.com/357_magnum.php
    (while certainly not a power house choice, Or something Id recommend),
    in the hands of a skilled hunter I has taken about everything in north America at one time or another)
    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=357 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


    http://www.ballistics101.com/10mm.php
    (not bad for a compact auto pistol used for hunting and with proper hand loads certainly useful)
    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=10 mm&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


    http://www.ballistics101.com/41_magnum.php
    (great choice if recoil bothers you, provided you hand load )
    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=41 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


    http://www.ballistics101.com/44_magnum.php
    (without doubt the least expensive and most effective choice for most people)
    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


    http://www.ballistics101.com/454_casull.php
    (great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=454 Casull&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

    http://www.ballistics101.com/460_sw.php
    (great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=460 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


    http://www.ballistics101.com/480_ruger.php
    (great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=480 Ruger&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

    http://www.ballistics101.com/500_sw.php
    (great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
    S&W 1006 10mm
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    above a chart obtained by shooting factory hollow point ammo into
    a pressure treated rail road tie , notice how both projectile weight and velocity effect the impact energy, but, its both bullet weight and diameter and the bullet construction that matters
    hard cast lead alloy bullets cast from 95% lead and 5% tin generally penetrate deeper, even the better hard cast 357 mag 170 grain bullets tend to exit the far side of hogs I've shot and a 44 mag loaded with 310 hard cast almost always will, and hard cast do expand rather consistently but its max penetration that they get thats critical.
    hard cast bullets seem to produce more consistent results in my experience than factory hollow points, that can be devastating most of the time but occasionally fail to penetrate,or at times zip through without the same effect.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    btw the best hunting load I've found over the decades for the 44 mag revolver
    now this observation has very little to do with the handgun or caliber you decide to carry, but I find it rather amusing when I see guys state something along the lines of
    "well, Id prefer a glock with 13-19 cartridge capacity over a 5-to-6 shot revolver"

    yeah I can easily see that thought process, but I've actually been charged by a large very vindictive hog, one of my friends wounded..... your issue is with time and distance, and if you think your going to have the time available on a rapidly charging hog, or bear, too place your shots, precisely or have that set of teeth/tusks/claws in your sights for more than at most a couple seconds your in for a rude awakening.
    yeah, you can pump out several shots a second at the range on a stationary target , but in close cover you'll be lucky to have 3-to- 5 seconds to react, and on a fast in-coming target
    that's not a great deal of time.
    I used to shoot bowling pin matches double action with a S&W 44 mag revolver,
    (where you try to knock several bowling pins off a table against a stop watch)
    I think I'm at least above average in both skill and experience, you might have more than 3-4 shot capacity but your unlikely to have the time to place even 2-3 shots.

    I Use 95% WW alloy and 5% pure tin by volume
    20 grains of H110 and this LEE 310 grain, or a lyman 300 grain ,cast bullet, sized .430,,seated just shy of cylinder length and crimp firmly (casting the bullets hot enough to have a slightly frosted appearance and dropping them into a 5 gallon bucket of water seems to help consistency and uniform hardness)
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...cf-430-diameter-310-grain-flat-nose-gas-check
    notice on this penetration test that the 300 grain hard cast 44 mag at roughly 30"

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    while these may not be most peoples choice in hunting handguns I can assure you that in practiced hand's
    Ive found both choices are quite effective

    the 44 mag silhouette with adjustable front site and 10 5/8" barrel
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-a-handgun-for-hunting-hogs-deer-elk.1864/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...you-cast-and-hunt-with-bullets-you-made.6802/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ow-many-guys-use-a-slug-gun-for-hunting.2722/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...rence-in-ammo-effectiveness.14384/#post-73941

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/need-sks-and-or-ak47-advice-7-62-x-39.5897/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/where-in-hell-is-my-buck.14375/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ounger-guy-how-to-hunt-with-a-revolver.14205/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/44-mag-reload-info.3409/
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  2. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    have you ever taken the time and effort to teach a new guy too...hunt with a handgun effectively?

    I've taken the time to teach several younger hunters over the years
    I figured the first place to start would be to get the guy to pass a state hunter safety course , (he is a neighbors son thats about 22 in this case)
    and have him pick up all the local management area brochures, game department regulations and local maps, , too read, we take the time and effort to frequently visit ,the local out door 100 yard range, to practice.
    don,t get discouraged if your new disciple takes some time to become proficient it generally takes months, or even years in rare cases, too master a hand gun.
    become proficient with a reasonably powerful and accurate handgun and an introduction to hand-loading.
    he owned a 686 8.375" stainless 357 mag so I figured we could start with that as its certainly adequate with the correct hand-loaded ammo.
    this nei design works well in my brother in laws 357 mag S&W revolver so I used the same mold design for these handloads

    [​IMG]
    S&W 1006 10mm
    [​IMG]

    http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I generally suggest sighting all my hunting revolvers on a target like this at 75 yards, where you aim at the center yellow dot and adjust the sights so bullets consistently impact on the upper red dot, getting too the point where you can keep all the bullet impacts within 1"-2" of that red dot on the target takes lots of practice at the range and reload press and casting bullets., practice in all those steps helps.
    like with most skills this takes work, and consistent practice and if your not willing to put in the time and effort you;ll have a hard time mastering the required skills.
    now a 357 mag in skilled hands can kill any deer or hog and thats what this guys intending to hunt, I have a suspicion that he may eventually move to a 41 mag or 44 mag , or even a 480 ruger, revolver as his revolver skill and proficiency with that current revolver increases

    http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=357 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun

    12 grains of h110 powder, under a gas check, 175 grain nei 357 bullet cast from 95% ww alloy and 5% pure tin, sized .358, once you've helped a new guy,develop the required skills with the weapon of his choice, Ill show him related skills like field dressing use of a climbing tree stand etc.
    most guys range estimates are laughable past about 100 yards with an iron sight revolver so I generally suggest they not shoot past 100 yards , but if you do sight in a revolver to shoot a couple inches high at 75 yards those occasional shots taken at 100-120 yards tend to be hitting much closer to the intended impact points
    if you look at that hog diagram, shots to that area with the three dots that basically destroy the heart/lungs and shoulder work and a bit higher shatter the spine all lethal hits

     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  3. rlphvac

    rlphvac Well-Known Member

    Grumpy I would love to hunt hogs but they arn't around here. I just bought a Desert Eagle 50AE. I only shot it once and it shoots nice and a lot milder than I expected I did have an issue with my reloads not cycling the slide I started at the lowest charge of accurate #9 as I moved up a tenth at a time it seemed to push the slide farther but still not cycle. The factory rounds worked fine and my reloads fired good once I cycled it by hand so I'm thinking the charge is the problem and there is not a lot of info on the loads. I also got a couple new deer rifles a Tikka t-3 lite stainless 25-06 and a Savage trophy hunter 116 in 7mm Rem mag so Ive got some work to do working up loads for them and the other 4 I bought myself for Christmas all pistols a Sig 1911 and a Sig 380 that I hate I thought the woman would like it better than the Glock 43 but I was wrong I also got a Para Expert 1911 and an older S&W 5906 9mm that I like a lot and really don't know why I can't explain it yet but there is just something I like about this 9mm but I like it better than the rest of my 9mms and I have a few to compare but not enough yet to make me happy because I want them all like any gun owner its never enough. On a side note Grumpy I'm looking into a progressive press for pistol only I need to stay with a Hornaday because of all the dies I own I have the L&L bushings for and that's a lot of money in bushings and its so easy to change over to different calibers I am looking at the bullet plant press but i'm not sure of the auto feed. I think I'm liking the plane progressive press because its more hands on and still has to be a lot faster than a single stage press. Because you are about the only one I know of that I know isn't blowing smoke I do value your opinion and experience
     
  4. rlphvac

    rlphvac Well-Known Member

    Grumpy I wanted to explain the blowing smoke I meet a few people at the range that reload and claim to know everything there is to know about reloading ( and they might ) but they don't impress me in that way plus they are the best shots on the face of the earth but never have a gun and every year they shoot a 40 point buck at 1000 yards with a pea shooter I'm sure you have met the type one day this one guy got mad at me because I was picking up my brass and he told me that he came up to the range every morning to pick up the brass I didn't get ignorant but told him he wasn't getting my brass because I reload it. This idiot had the nerve to tell me that I could have my own brass then. This is why I don't like going to the range I would much rather go to the farm by myself
     
  5. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    your Desert Eagle 50AE cycling issue sure sounds like your charging the cases with too little powder and btw, on a case that large moving up a half grain at a time, not a tenth , is still very conservative.
    I think youll find that Tikka t-3 lite stainless 25-06 to be an excellent rifle (most stainless barrels need to be cleaned frequently to maintain best accuracy) Ive had excellent results in my 257 wby with these https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/rifle-bullets/hot-cor-rifle-bullets/257/257-100-sptz-sp-bullet limit the hits to lung/heart shots they expand rapidly
    yes theres always a few guys that
    ( conveniently always forgot to bring their good rifle)
    who know everything about what YOUR doing wrong,
    most of them can,t hit a coke can at a 100 yards,
    shooting off hand if you pay them.
    I've always been amazed at the guys that can put three shots in a quart off the bench rest at 100 yards,
    that assume that now that the rifle can do that that THEY CAN,
    shooting from field positions ,
    many could not consistently hit a 5 gallon bucket at 200 yards,
    shooting off hand or even from a sitting position.
    well? how many of you gentlemen have or want to hunt deer and hogs with a handgun? how many of you have taken the effort to teach some younger guy the basics?
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/I...05d2d67c056d3b!8m2!3d26.4185248!4d-81.4174057

    Ive shot a good many hogs in that basic area,
    JW corbett, bear island, sprit-of-the -wild management areas

    http://myfwc.com/media/2884420/BigCypressMap.pdf

    https://www.google.com/maps/dir/''/...4efaff3144750a!2m2!1d-81.4102753!2d26.6202056


    https://www.google.com/maps/dir/26....4efaff3144750a!2m2!1d-81.4102753!2d26.6202056


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hooting-from-field-positions.9380/#post-71169

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-you-don-t-sight-dead-on-at-100-yards.14018/
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018

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