learning to effectively handle a larger bore revolver

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
I tried to mentor one of my neighbors sons who is about 17 years old in the skills needed to safely and effectively handle and accurately shoot a revolver, that could be used for hunting the local deer and hogs.
(something hes been doing with his dad for a few years, with a 30/30 marlin rifle.)
So I suggested we start by a visit to the local indoor range,(I wish I could still go down to the end of my street to practice but the areas starting to get built up to the point thats probably legal but still likely to cause issues with a few of the newer neighbors,
I brought a S&W 22 LR 8" revolver and a similar 8" S&W 357 mag.
If you can,t hit a target with a 22 LR at moderate ranges theres no sense in using the larger caliber.
Ive found its darn near useless to proceed with the larger caliber hand guns until we work on the bad habits and lack of skills are up to speed with the rim fire revolver.
developing and maintaining , fairly rapid, 100% repeatable ,and highly accurate hand gun sight alignment is a skill that takes many hours of practice and thousands of shots fired, thats a skill best , learned with a rim-fire hand gun that's similar in action type to the same type of hand gun you prefer to hunt with.
no you won,t have developed the required sight and manual hand gun skills in the first few hours but like riding a bike it will eventually become dependable muscle memory

keep in mind that cartridges like the 445 dan wesson
(an extended length case 44 mag,) or the 454 casull and 460 S&W ( an extended length case, similar to a 45 colt)
while significantly more powerful than a standard 44 mag, are not necessarily more lethal in skilled hands, but the extra velocity allows longer effective range use.
and the DAN WESSON REVOLVERS ARE KNOWN TO BE EXCEPTIONALLY ACCURATE and BARRELS ARE EASY TO REPLACE

445PP1.jpg

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt445sm.htm
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you'll find used dan wesson 445 revolvers generally hold up well, were not shot much due to the cost of commercial ammo, and hold value well.

TAFFIN TESTS: THE .445 SUPERMAG

JOHN TAFFIN

The .357 SuperMag as chambered in the Dan Wesson heavy frame revolver of the same name orinthe Ruger .357 Maximum Blackhawk or even in the Seville Silhouette Single Action, is generally regarded by many experienced silhouetters as the finest revolver cartridge for long range shooting ever conceived.The concept was a simple one. Instead of using a big bore for silhouettes, stretch the .357 Magnum enough that it would handle 180 and 200 grain bullets at normal .357 Magnum muzzle velocities. A length of 1.610" was selected and 180-200 grain bullets did indeed attain the same muzzle velocities as the .357 Magnum using 158 grain bullets. Though the concept was simple, carrying it out was not. It was more than a matter of chambering an existing revolver for the new cartridge as stretching the case to 1.610" also meant stretching revolver frames and cylinders a like amount. This is no simple task and certainly required a large investment in time, money, and engineering.

When the .357 SuperMag from Dan Wesson first appeared on the scene, more than one wildcatter was waiting with reamers in hand to do one thing: Turn it into a true big bore. The largest number of these were turned into .44 SuperMags, and I had the privilege of doing extensive shooting of one such early wildcat, the .44 UltraMag. The .44 UltraMag used .444 Marlin brass cut to 1.600", and this brass being larger in diameter than .44 Magnum brass, was swaged and turned on a lathe until it matched .44 Magnum dimensions. The reason, of course, was to also allow the use of the shorter .44 Magnums in the same cylinder.

My good friend Lew Schafer created the .44 UltraMag and by careful reloading we acquired the following muzzle velocities, in cold temperatures of 20-25 degrees, brutally cold when shooting a big bore revolver, using a six-inch barrelled Dan Wesson revolver:




    • 200 grain Hornady Jacketed Hollow Point 1718 fps
    • 220 grain Sierra FPJ Silhouette 1670 fps
    • 240 grain Hornady Jacketed Silhouette 1596 fps
    • 265 grain Hornady Jacketed Flat Point 1495 fps
    • 305 grain Cast Gas Checked Bullet 1589 fps
All loads were assembled with WW680 powder and CCI #350 Magnum Large Pistol primers with the 305 grain cast bullet giving five-shot groups of 3/8"-1/2" at 25 yards.

Barrels for the .44 UltraMag were standard Dan Wesson .44 Magnum barrels but because the SuperMag frames used different threads, eight-inch .44 Magnum barrels were cut to six-inches and rethreaded. Various .44 SuperMags, based on either .444 Marlin or .30-40 Krag brass, have surfaced since, but the ".44 Stretched Magnum" became a production sixgun in 1988. Dan Wesson and the late Elgin Gates of IHMSA, combined forces to create the.445 SuperMag. Dan Wesson supplied the guns, IHMSA supplied the brass and healthy orders for the new big bore sixgun.

As of this writing, .445 SuperMags are available only from Dan Wesson in both blue and stainless steel versions. No other revolver manufacturer has seen fit to produce the .445 Supermag, so it is either Dan Wesson or a Thompson/Center Contender single-shot. Brass is available, but no factory loaded rounds. Brass can be acquired only from The Silhouette (phone 208-524-0880), and the latest run will be headstamped ".445 Gates" in memory of its creator.

Problems surfaced early with the .445 SuperMag revolver and also with the .445 brass. The first guns had oversize cylinders and the brass was not properly annealed. Problems with sizing .445 SuperMag brass has also resulted whether using either .445 or .44 Magnum carbide sizing dies both of which often raise a sharp ring of metal right above the base of the fired shell. Standard non-carbide .44 Magnum sizing dies will give better results. In my reloading of the .445, I use neither .445 nor .44 Magnum sizing dies but instead opt for a custom RCBS .44 Schafer UltraMag sizing die that puts a slight taper on the case from base to mouth, and is much easier on brass. It is somewhat of a nuisance to use as cases must be lubed and virtually hand fed into the very sharp, very flat base of the sizing die, but the results are well worth it. Most sizing dies have a slight funnel shape at the bottom to assist entrance of the case mouth; the .44 UltraMag die does not.

Except for the case-sizing cautions, reloading the .44 SuperMag is the same as for reloading the .44 Magnum. A good heavy crimp is required both to keep bullets from moving forward in recoil as the big sixgun is fired, and also to get the powder started burning properly. Powder selection is a little different as I stay with H4227, WW296, H110, WW680, and AA#1680, staying away from any faster burning powders.

The same bullets that work in the .44 Magnum also work well in the .44 SuperMag with my preference being for the heavier bullets in the 290 to 310 grain weight range. The .44 SuperMag is a an exceptionally accurate cartridge and this accuracy is even further enhanced by the use of heavyweight bullets such as the SSK J.D. Jones designed #310.429 flat point, the NEI #295.429 GC (available from BRP Bullets, 1210 Alexander Road, Dept. AH, Colorado Springs Colorado 80909) or Sierra's 300 grain jacketed flat point. Speer also has a 300 grain bullet in the works but I have not yet received any for testing as this is written.

Large Rifle primers are usually recommended for the .445 UltraMag/SuperMag/Gates, but I have yet to determine a nickel's worth of difference between the use of Large Rifle Primers and Magnum Pistol Primers. Muzzle velocities and accuracy are both virtually identical whether Federal or CCI Large Rifle Primers, or Federal or CCI Magnum Pistol Primers are used.

The .445 SuperMag has been touted as a silhouette revolver and it is IF properly loaded. It makes little sense to load it to the hilt and try to shoot 40, 60, or 80 targets with it. Even with the ten-inch barrelled version, which is just a shade under four pounds, recoil can be quite disconcerting with full house loads. For silhouetting, I would stay at 1650 feet per second or less with the 220 grain Sierra silhouette bullet or 1500 feet per second with the 240 Speer silhouette bullet. Using the 220 grain Sierra and 34.0 grains of H4227, muzzle velocity is 1648 feet per second according to the triple sky screens of my Oehler Model 35P chronograph. The same load in an eight-inch barrel goes 1635 fps, six-inch gives 1541 fps, and the Super Fourteen T/C Contender milks it for all it is worth and yields just barely over two thousand feet per second.

With the 240 Speer silhouette bullet, I use either 33.0 grains of H110, 31.0 grains of H4227, or 38.0 grains of WW680 for the 1500 feet per second muzzle velocity range from the ten-inch barrelled Dan Wesson. These same loads will do 1350 to 1450 feet per second in the six-inch and eight-inch barreled DW's and right around 1850 in the Super Fourteen.

The heavier weight bullets really make the .445 worthwhile and the replacing of the ten-inch standard barrel or eight-inch heavy barrel that were standard equipment with my early .445 Dan Wesson with a standard weight six-inch barrel makes the .445 handle as easily as a Smith & Wesson Model 29. Well, real close anyway. The shorter barrel transforms the big Dan Wesson from a clumsy, heavy competition pistol to a very packable hunting pistol.

Hunting with the .445 SuperMag means heavyweight bullets such as the 265 grain Hornady Jacketed Flat Point, the 300 grain Sierra Jacketed Flat Point, or cast bullets such as NEI's 295 grain Keith style or SSK's 310 grain flat point. Using 31.0 grains of H110 with the latter three bullets in the 300 grain weight range yields impressive muzzle velocities with the six-inch barreled Dan Wesson. Even with this relatively short barrel length, the 300 grain cast bullets will go 1500 feet per second giving a lot of power from a small package, or the 300 grain Sierra Jacketed Flat Point will do 1300 feet per second with the same load. For a slightly less powerful load, try 34.0 grains of WW680 with either of the 300 grain bullets.

LOADS FOR THE .445 SUPERMAG

FIREARM: DAN WESSON MODEL 445
CHRONOGRAPH: OEHLER MODEL 35P
PRIMER: FEDERAL #210
TEMPERATURE: 70 DEGREES



BULLET LOADMV 10"MV 8"MV 6"
SIERRA 300 JFP 29.0 GR. H110 1299 1290 1220
30.0 GR. H110 1302 1294 1242
31.0 GR. H110 1395 1394 1295
32.0 GR. H110 1445 1429 1369
32.0 GR. WW680 1144 1121 1100
33.0 GR. WW680 1229 1163 1133
34.0 GR. WW680 1284 1247 1191
35.0 GR. WW680 1340 1293 1253

BULLET LOADMV 10"MV 8"MV 6"
BRP 295 KEITH* 29.0 GR. H110 1447 1443 1376
30.0 GR. H110 1512 1502 1477
31.0 GR. H110 1608 1572 1498
32.0 GR. H110 1635 1607 1527
32.0 GR. WW680 1397 1344 1336
33.0 GR. WW680 1435 1406 1405
34.0 GR. WW680 1554 1496 1442
35.0 GR. WW680 1568 1541 1514
36.0 GR. WW680 1612 1550 1538


BULLET LOADMV 10"MV 8"MV 6"
SSK 310 FN** 29.0 GR. H110 1446 1442 1402
30.0 GR. H110 1501 1472 1421
31.0 GR. H110 1546 1494 1491
32.0 GR. H110 1575 1563 1544
32.0 GR. WW680 1399 1375 1334
33.0 GR. WW680 1492 1462 1444
34.0 GR. WW680 1572 1521 1500
35.0 GR. WW680 1601 1547 1517


BULLET LOADMV 10"MV 8"MV 6"
HORNADY 265 FN 29.0 GR. H110 1361 1308 1258
30.0 GR. H110 1406 1394 1286
31.0 GR. H110 1486 1459 1310
32.0 GR. H110 1536 1527 1409
29.0 GR. H4227 1390 1377 1267
30.0 GR. H4227 1468 1445 1306
31.0 GR. H4227 1534 1506 1327
32.0 GR. H4227 1581 1576 1430


BULLET LOADMV 10"MV 8"MV 6"
SPEER 240 FMJ 32.0 GR. H110 1471 1441 1313
33.0 GR. H110 1516 1517 1387
34.0 GR. H110 1522 1525 1442
35.0 GR. H110 1577 1533 1485
36.0 GR. H110 1570 1575 1512
30.0 GR. H4227 1408 1367 1296
31.0 GR. H4227 1514 1493 1326
32.0 GR. H4227 1609 1599 1444
33.0 GR. H4227 1682 1626 1550
35.0 GR. WW680 1419 1335 1227
36.0 GR. WW680 1451 1359 1289
37.0 GR. WW680 1476 1391 1331
38.0 GR. WW680 1504 1432 1353
39.0 GR. WW680 1499 1630 1405
34.0 GR. AA#1680 1256 1235 1045
35.0 GR. AA#1680 1345 1324 1070
36.0 GR. AA#1680 1377 1365 1189
37.0 GR. AA#1680 1388 1376 1252



BULLET LOADMV 10"MV 8"MV 6"
SIERRA 220 FMJ 34.0 GR. H4227 1648 1635 1541
35.0 GR. H4227 1759 1705 1561
36.0 GR. H4227 1793 1780 1640
38.0 GR. WW680 1479 1460 1287
39.0 GR. WW680 1482 1461 1295
40.0 GR. WW680 1517 1491 1360


44magcar.jpg


bloodd.jpg

deer-anatomya.jpg

a good knowledge of a deers or elks anatomy is also mandatory ,
remember an arrow or revolver bullet kills by rapid blood loss and critical organ failure,so accurate hits are mandatory for rapid results
you can,t just slice, or punch holes in random parts of the games anatomy and get rapid kills.
deer-anatomygh.jpg

flamedo.jpg

deershot1.jpg



http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-the-reluctance-to-use-cast-projectiles.9875/
29-3Silhouette.jpg


suggested bullet weights
357 mag= 158 grain-180 grain
41 mag= 220 grain-250 grain
44 mag= 270 grain-320 grain
45 caliber -300 grain-350 grain
480 caliber 350 grain-400 grain
50 caliber 400 grain-480 grain

there,s always a compromise, being made when selecting any hunting hand-gun, between, ease of handling, power ,recoil and accuracy, you can maintain , that determines what you can hunt and how far your comfortable in making accurate shot placement.
what many guys don,t seem to grasp well is the concept that theres a difference between a pistol that can be depended on to provide a lethal wound in skilled hands, from close range on a broadside shot to the heart/lungs,at 40 -50 yards, where 10"-12" of penetration is all thats required, and one thats got the power , accuracy and penetration that can reasonably be expected to quickly and efficiently cause an animal to drop with a well placed hit, at any reasonable range from 20-150 yards and from a raking angle that might require 2 feet of hide and muscle to be penetrated before the vital organs are destroyed.
I doubt anyone would reasonably argue that you could not kill an elk with a pistol chambered in, 357 mag, m1 carbine (ruger made both), the fact is beyond question that a perfectly placed shot from a reasonable fairly close,range with the correct ammo from those common defensive calibers, one would provide a mortal wound and devastating internal damage,on game like a large hog or an elk.
that is NOT the same thing by any stretch as saying either of those cartridge;s could be expected to be used, nearly as effectively as something in the 44-mag-500 mag range that would easily out penetrate the smaller cartridge.a knowledge of the games anatomy, shot placement and bullet construction are more important than power, but having the ability to punch through a reasonable amount of muscle and bone to reach the vitals increases the pistols chances of being used successfully.
theres a reason that they generally don,t use a 270 win on cape buffalo and elephant but do use cartridges like a 375 H&H and 458 Win, and its mostly related to the reasonably expected penetration, and inertial mass the projectiles have.
the same basic concept in hand guns applies , experiences has shown that your much more likely to succeed at mortally wounding a large game animal with both proper shot placement (critical even with a 458 mag rifle) and a projectile that can reasonably be expected to punch through about 24" of ballistic gel.
you can,t ignore physics and at some point a lack of mass and inertia limits penetration limiting what you can reasonably expect to accomplish from a pistol at an un-expected range and angles on large game




linba1.png

linba2.png

linba3.png

linba4.png


Linebaugh%20Seminar%20Penetration%20Tests.html.jpg

ignoring the linked info is never smart
http://www.realguns.com/calculators/sectionaldensity.html


http://handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/The+Effects+Of+The+Meplat+On+Terminal+Ballistics.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ectively-handle-a-larger-bore-revolver.12784/






if you watch this linked video keep in mind hes using jacketed hollow point ammo, you can generally get significantly deeper penetration with hard cast flat nose bullets in either caliber


I would strongly suggest selecting a 6"-10" barrel pistol or revolver for any serious hunting application to maximize velocity and to provide a good sight radias.

http://www.ballistics101.com/357_magnum.php
(while certainly not a power house choice, Or something Id recommend),
in the hands of a skilled hunter I has taken about everything in north America at one time or another)
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=357 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


http://www.ballistics101.com/10mm.php
(not bad for a compact auto pistol used for hunting and with proper hand loads certainly useful)
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=10 mm&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


http://www.ballistics101.com/41_magnum.php
(great choice if recoil bothers you, provided you hand load )
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=41 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


http://www.ballistics101.com/44_magnum.php
(without doubt the least expensive and most effective choice for most people)
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


http://www.ballistics101.com/454_casull.php
(great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=454 Casull&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

http://www.ballistics101.com/460_sw.php
(great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=460 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


http://www.ballistics101.com/480_ruger.php
(great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=480 Ruger&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

http://www.ballistics101.com/500_sw.php
(great choice if recoil does not bother you, provided you hand load )
http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

 
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