Metal Flakes / Particles in Oil

J

jeepnjeff

Member
Hi Everyone,
2013 Jeep Wrangler 3.6L Pentastar V6 - So... the last time I changed the oil, about 4,300 miles ago, I noticed metal flakes in the drain pan. I figured they were from one of my lawn mowers. But, when I changed the oil yesterday, I cleaned the plastic drain tub very well so I would be able to tell if there were any metal flakes from the Jeep. Sure enough, there were flakes. Interestingly, I didn't find many flakes in the filter. The flakes are fine, not very large.. please see the pics.

I have 50K miles. Always changed the oil with Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic from the start every 3,500-4,000 miles. This is the longest I've ever gone between oil changes. Always used a genuine Mopar filter. I don't beat on it either. I'm not sure how long this has been happening because I don't usually examine the old oil this closely. I did take a sample that I am sending to Blackstone Labs today; should be interesting to see what they find.

Please let me know your thoughts, experiences, ideas. Thanks!
 

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I wish the pictures showed the flakes in much greater and clearer,detail,
but it appears some are silver some copper ,
that usually indicated bearing wear, so hows the oil pressure at idle?
the oil is not black and full of soot,or cream /or white or thick,or dis-colored,
that might indicate coolant contamination,
so it looks like the oils changed frequently
Id especially change the oil, and filter, and slap a big magnet on the base of the oil filter
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clip on a decent magnet to the base of a long oil filter helps it trap metalic trash more effectively, and while $29 may sound high its good extra insurance that potentially reduces the chances of metalic debis from getting to the bearings and valve train.
consider the cost of bearing replacement?
filtmag.png

http://www.magnet4sale.com/n42-3od-x-1id-x-1-2-neodymium-rare-earth-ring-magnet/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

change the oil, and filter, and slap a big magnet on the base of the oil filter
http://www.magnet4sale.com/n42-3od-x-1id-x-1-2-neodymium-rare-earth-ring-magnet/
3ringmag.jpg


and a couple high heat tolerant magnets,
 
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I am with you here grumpy suspect Bearing wear that is why my last jeep is the last one I will own as long as they are a mopar product. Not a fan of mopar quality.
 
Thanks guys. The oil is dark brown. Changed every 3,500-4,000. It doesn't have an oil pressure gauge so I will see if I can get the oil pressure from a scantool later. I wish I had better pictures.

Bearing material as in the crank bearings or possibly camshafts? Or no way to tell which they're from?

I opened up the filter housing (cartridge/European style filter) last night about 100 miles since the oil change. I caught the oil that dripped off the filter in a clean container. You can see very fine metal particles with a flashlight. And there are some sparkles inside the housing when you look with a flashlight.
 
if you pull it down for a close detailed inspection NOW, you might find its fairly cheap and easy to repair,
COMPARED, too what it will be inevitably if you continue to drive it in its current condition,
as all that metallic trash in the oil WILL constantly continue to do ever more DAMAGE

https://www.magnet4sale.com/smco-disk-magnet-dia-1x1-4-samarium-cobalt-magnets-608-f-temperature/
THIS STUFF WORKS
crn-99004.jpg

very good
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very very good
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yes the additives in the the quart of MMO you can add to your crank case oil, do a good job of breaking up and holding in suspension oil sludge and transporting it to the oil filter
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read through these links
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/metal-in-oil.10875/#post-47688

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ilter-you-sellect-does-make-a-differance.117/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-filters.11189/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-up-oil-feed-holes-in-bearings-shells.10750/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...k-after-a-cam-lobe-rod-or-bearings-fail.2919/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-up-oil-feed-holes-in-bearings-shells.10750/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

moroso sells plug kits
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be sure only one oil passage plugs drilled, generally only the pass side oil passage plug with a single .025-.030 hole, many guys use a 1/32" drill bit because its easy to locate, I prefer the smaller #72 drill
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http://buydrillbits.com/products/hss/gp2.php?c=AIR

blockdrill.png

http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/HS-Long-Drills/1180.html
 
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I'm with Grumpy and wouldn't drive it till you get the Blackstone results. I just did an engine R&R on a Wrangler Rubicon that went through the same scenario with fairly low miles. Was a 3.8 though IIRC.
 
Thanks Grumpy, that is some golden information! I hope to get the oil analysis back by the end of the week.

The engine is actually still under the 5yr/100k "powertrain" warranty. I need to have my ducks in a row before talking to the dealer because I have done all my own maintenance and I don't want to get the run around or have them tell me it is fine. I always took a picture of the oil and filter and odometer every time I changed the oil. Probably can find some of the receipts too.

I wonder if the Pennzoil Synthetic has been keeping the engine going this long... maybe if I was using conventional it would have already failed...
 
Did you stick a magnet in the drain oil to see if the particles were magnetic?
That could help narrow down the problem.

It was explained to me about tire mileage warranties.
EVERY rotation, etc, etc, etc must be documented.
Miss one and they don't honor the warranty.
So it's almost impossible to prove if you are doing it yourself.
I suspect the same will be true with your engine warranty.
 
"I always took a picture of the oil and filter and odometer every time I changed the oil. Probably can find some of the receipts too."

^^^ I'm impressed!
 
Any way you look at it you have it sent to a lab. I would try for warrantee work first the worst they can say is NO. Get your ducks lined up and let us know how you make out!!!
 
Well guys, I'm kind of at a loss. The Blackstone Lab results came back but there are no signs of trouble. Please see the report below and let me know your thoughts:

oil analysis.JPG
 

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well that is encouraging, but
ID get one of your old oil filters opened up and inspected,
and ID darn sure be using several magnets to trap loose metallic crud,
is there any chance you or the machine shop, failed to clean the oil pan or block completely and thoroughly?
the metallic debris might be left over debris from the previous engine if the parts used were not correctly cleaned before reassembly!
fillcut1.jpg


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http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/magnets.120/#post-49771

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...himmer-in-the-oil-catch-pan.11397/#post-52207

If you have a cam or lifter , or rocker arm , fail, its going to rapidly cause a constant steam of metallic micro trash to enter the oil flowing through the engine, its only a mater of time before that metallic trash causes other moving component wear issues
this is one reason changing oil filters, rather frequently (at least every 7-8K miles)
(IDEALLY the long versions with extra surface area)
and having previously installed several high temp magnets in an engine, you build,
is rather critical too preventing similar damage in any future engine builds

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/metallic-debris-in-filter.12364/#post-61283

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...filters-wix-vs-royal-purple.12988/#post-67560
 
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You passed with flying colors.
I have no idea where those metallic flakes could be coming from.
Is someone playing a practical joke on you?
Maybe dumped a tube of glitter in your drain oil when you weren't looking?
 
Well guys, thanks for the encouragement! I can now think of two scenarios:

1) The engine is shedding fine flakes of metal for some reason and it is not showing up in the used oil analysis because the particles are too large and there is an absence of "dissolved" wear metal.

2) Around 48,000 miles ago, before even the first oil change, the engine started running rough and the check engine light came on. The dealer replaced the camshaft(s) on one side because it had flat spots. I am guessing there is a chance that this is residual metal particles from the camshaft. That could explain why the oil analysis came back good. However it seems a little far fetched that there would still be particles like this coming out in oil changes after at least 10 oil changes. Any thoughts?
 
jeepnjeff said:
2) Around 48,000 miles ago, before even the first oil change, the engine started running rough and the check engine light came on. The dealer replaced the camshaft(s) on one side because it had flat spots. I am guessing there is a chance that this is residual metal particles from the camshaft. That could explain why the oil analysis came back good. However it seems a little far fetched that there would still be particles like this coming out in oil changes after at least 10 oil changes. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

OR, your new camshafts are failing.
Buy one of these magnets and JB Weld it to the bottom of your oil pan. It has a 57# pull.
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RZ0X84
Then, at least, your oil pump will not suck up the particles and circulate them through the engine.
It also works great stuck to the end of your oil filter.
 
 
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