my Brother.In.LAW building a paint booth

grumpyvette

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my brother-in-laws been doing body work on his 1974 corvette for about a year now, and hes getting ready to paint the car,him self because all the quotes he got were absurdly expensive.

I allowed him to fabricate a temporary paint booth in my shop, we got the air compressor to supply DRY air last week
so were making progress
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=6246&p=22862&hilit=franzinator#p22862
related info
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=7075
hes used
(13) 10 ft long 1.5" pvc pipes
(4 )1.5" TEES
(2) 1.5" Xs
(6) 90 degree elbows
(2) 100 foot long and 10 ft wide 6 mill plastic sheets
(4) rolls of duct tape
(4) 24" x 24" air conditioning filters (AIR INLETS)
(1)36" fan and blower housing and some spare 24" diam. air conditioner duct as an exhaust for the paint room.
this allows a both thats at least 10 ft wide x 8 ft tall x 20 ft long paint booth in which his 1974 corvette fits with just enough room that hes convinced he can paint it...btw he didn,t "COVER THE WALLS AND TOOLS" as is commonly suggested he covered the floor and built what was really a plastic wall tent inside the shop,to prevent paint dust from exiting the paint booth he built.he used PVC pipe and fittings glued together and lots of clear 8 mill plastic sheet to build a room, that was about 8-9ft tall, 20 plus feet long and a bit over 10 feet wide with a large evac fan on one end and 4 24" square air conditioning filters to allow air into the booth, with a long section of fabricated duct work for routing the paint excess spray out of the shop.we also hung several larger florescent light fixtures
now I have to say it took a bit of work but it actually functioned reasonably well.. we will see if thats realistic eventually

greenhouseplastic.jpg

this picture above is very similar to what it looked like when complete
 

Indycars

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Unless the plastic is very well supported, when you turn the fan on, you are going to loose some space as it sucks the walls in. Did you think about putting the fan on the inlet side with the filters so it pressurizes the space and expands the wall???

Seems it would also suck dirty air into the space everywhere there is a crack or thru the door opening.

Any idea what he has spent on materials, setting up the paint booth?

 

mathd

solid fixture here in the forum
Paint booth is always a negative ventilation(ie sucking air out) never positive(pushing air in) so it suck the fumes out instead to make it stay inside.
Its best to build it a little bigger then too small. So he dont stick hes shirt or pants or air hose on the fresh paint
 

Indycars

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mathd said:
Paint booth is always a negative ventilation(ie sucking air out) never positive(pushing air in) so it suck the fumes out instead to make it stay inside.
They maybe be always negative, but I don't see why at this point. :? If air is coming in, then air is going out. Unless the exit is close to the inlet, then you shouldn't have paint recirculating.
 

mathd

solid fixture here in the forum
Am telling you it has to be negative. i tryed negative and positive vent and negative is just much better, i cant explain it but if ever you do the test you will understand :lol:
 

grumpyvette

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https://painterscare.com/how-to-spray-paint-a-car-professionally-8-steps/

hes installed 4 large 24"x 24" air filters , duct taped into large holes in one wall.
airconfilt.jpg

that allow air into the inclosed booth easily and the fan
scrollfan.jpg


pushes a good deal of air out, theres a slight negative pressure generated by the air flow as you do see the plastic walls bend in slightly when the doors closed , but we duct taped my (6) 50 lb 12 ton jack stands to the pvc pole uprights and used a good deal of duct tape on the plastic sheeting.
obviously its not professional, quality , but it sure impressed me as much better than I thought it would turn out. and yes the walls did flex inward slightly but we had zero issues with dirt on the paint.
 
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grumpyvette

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Urethane Clear ??
got a question for you gentlemen, IM not into painting so Im forced to learn as I go in that area, my brother-in-laws decided to paint his own car, hes painted cars before but its been decades since he ha done so? Urethane Clear ??
is the use of a Urethane Clear coat over a car painted with urethane paint ,mandatory , or only advised or even required over urethane paint, on a corvette my brother -in-laws about to start painting?
 

mathd

solid fixture here in the forum
Well most paint used(before the switch to waterborne) to be urethane and most of today's clear and primer ARE urethane based with a low VOC so they are legal. No more lacque or enamel like in the old time and waterborne primer and clear are almost non-exsistant
They changed to waterborne but only the paint change.. you use the same urethane primer and urethane clear for waterborne 2 stage paint.
When the solvdent are evap there is no more solvent so it make no difference for a 2 stage paint.

Also it depend upon what paint system(BASF or other) is he gonna be using (because some system you can't use urethane, thats not the case with BASF wich is widely used everywhere)what are hes basecoat(color) and clear coat techsheet's saying.. that will tell everything.
So far thats the way i understand it.
 

grumpyvette

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Staff member


RICK! thats a good idea! your correct, next time Ill use two large box fans pushing air into the booth through an air filter and only one sucking air out,through an air filter



"from WALLFISCHER
There is now two types of paint.
Old school single coat urethane and base coat clear coat urethane.

Single coat is just as its named. it will dry with a gloss and putting a clear coat over it is optional.

Base Coat Clear coat is a color sprayed on the car, allowed to either tack up and clear or allow to dry color sand and re spray color , allow to tack up and clear. With the base coat clear coat, the color will have NO gloss without the clear applied.

Base coat clear coat can make all us amatures look good. It allows you to sand out orange peal, runs, drips and dirt before applying clear and then you can still sand out your errors in the clear and buff out.

FWI Which ever way you go, make sure to use the right shade of sealer ( the color under the color for the correct color ) "



FROM SPSvettes
"Hey Grumpy,
I just painted my '84 Corvette a few months ago and I went through the same thing you're going through now. Just like walley said, you can go with a single stage urethane or a base/clear system. Basically, the single stage urethane can be clear coated but isn't neccessary and a base/clear system has to be clear coated.

FYI, I ended up going with a single stage urethane; however, the system I bought came with a clear coat. I opted not to shoot the clear for a couple of reasons:
1. I ended up with a good amount of trash in the paint due to my homemade paint booth
2. I was concerned about potential health issues due to the isocyanates in the clear

When I painted, I used a regular repirator and not a fresh air system. Everything I see on TV and/or read suggests having a fresh air system when shooting clear. I'm not saying you can't do it without fresh air, I just didn't want to take the risk.

After doing some research, I ended up going with a paint system from Kirker. Here is a link to the kit: http://smartshoppersinc.com/kirker/acrylic-urethanes.html
One thing to note is that I ended up having to buy an extra gallon of primer and and extra quart of activator. The extra gallon of primer was used as high build and was necessary for the block sanding stage. Also keep in mind that if you are shooting a urethane top coat, you will need to use a urethane primer (included in the Kirker kit). FYI, Kirker also makes some of the paint sold by Eastwood and Summit.

After the car was painted, I was still able to color sand and buff the single stage urethane. If you go with a single stage, I highly recommend spending the time to sand and buff.

Please keep in mind that I am no professional. I just wanted to share some of the things that I learned. I'd be happy to provide more info if you're interested. Here are a few before and after pics:

sps1.jpg

sps2.jpg

sps3.jpg

sps4.jpg
 
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mathd

solid fixture here in the forum
nice info,
i was talking about waterborne and 2 stage paint only, forgot to say that in my post. You cannot do a single stage waterborne paint when using urethane clear... obviously
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
just an update,
the B-I-LAW spent a week doing the sanding ,taping etc. then sprayed his first coat of urethane car paint, he had a few minor runs , so once that dried he sanded those smooth and were going to repaint this coming weekend, so far this looks like its giving very presentable results, and about 97% p
of the cars surface looked very good as it was after that first application.
the only issue he had was caused by the fact he had three different spray guns, two he purchased used at yard sales and a brand new one from HF, one of the older ones he purchased used was also a HF gun,one was a old profession paint gun, that needed serious cleaning.surprisingly, it was the new HF gun was defective , and the two older guns functioned fine,and to HF credit they replaced the defective gun and the new one he got as a replacement worked ok.
the best results were from the older gun that required almost an hour of cleaning after letting it soak over nite in a mix of mineral spirits and paint thinner.
we also found that his make shift paint booth works remarkably well.
now the minor body work and extensive surface sanding , taping, and component removal, required during the process of getting the corvette ready to paint took about 8-10 actual full 12 hour days, so theres some justification for the $7K- and higher prices the shops quoted for the job, but Id be absolutely amazed if a professional shop took the time and effort my B-I-LAW did, and Im reasonably sure hes not doing everything the same way or has the same skills or tools , as it was mostly hand sanded.
yet the results indicate that you can get decent results in a home based paint job if you take your time and I doubt he has more than $1500 in tools, supplies, paint etc. total, so if your willing to do manual labor and research painting a car can easily reduce costs 60%-80% of the quoted rates


related threads, and yes theres a great deal of info in the sub links youll want to know

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24&p=8986&hilit=+paint+spray#p8986

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=7075&p=23529&hilit=paint#p23529

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=6246&p=22862&hilit=drain+heat#p22862

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=7075&p=23527#p23527

https://painterscare.com/how-to-spray-paint-a-car-professionally-8-steps/

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=7069&p=23882&hilit=paint+shop#p23882

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=2675&p=15414&hilit=+paint+spray#p15414

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=1405&p=3111&hilit=paint+corvette#p3111

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5998&p=18555&hilit=paint+corvette#p18555

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=1784&p=4533&hilit=paint+corvette#p4533
 
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grumpyvette

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http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... 504_389504 $150

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200310925 $150


http://www.eastwood.com/review/product/ ... egory/211/ $389


http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/devilbi ... 14427.aspx $430


obviously theres a huge variation in the quality of paint spray guns, and the skill of the guys using them, and the required compressors needed to provide the air pressure, and be aware that you need DRY AIR, if you don,t have a source for dry air you will almost always ruin paint simply because compressors tend to supply moisture along with the compressed air
 

mathd

solid fixture here in the forum
I dont know if he is shooting metallic or solid color, but if he is shooting metallic its best not to sand because it messes with the metallic.
Yes i know it take alot of time for the body prep its really not easy found that by myself, he may consider a D/A sander if he dont already has one(i used this one: http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6 ... ?locale=en) it saved me lots of time sanding the filler and doing the bare work,
that and some sanding block for the final hand work.

The best gun for the price is the devilbiss finishline(the one i got) can't get a decent gun for any cheaper.
More expensive gun last longer/weak less rapidly, are less heavy, usually has a bigger Fan(coverage area) so it can paint a whole car fast(reduced overspray) and they usually have better atomization(very good for clearcoat, but can get away with it doing a 2000grit sand and compound for a perfect finish)

Post some picture once he is done if he dont mind :)
Am sure he will be impressed at the finish once he lay the clear coat(or final coat if doing 1 stage)

He may reduce the fluid control or go faster, basecoat are usually sprayed medium wet not full wet :lol: just making some fun.
 

grumpyvette

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mitchvette1.JPG

well he got it painted,he purchased a $200 paint gun the paint shop suggested, and other than a few very minor screw-ups things look good,in fact it looks remarkably good , hes got a few very minor paint runs in the clear coat, he wants to know if he can sand those out and re-shoot those areas without majors issues?
 

Indycars

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grumpyvette said:
mitchvette1.JPG

well he got it painted,he purchased a $200 paint gun the paint shop suggested, and other than a few very minor screw-ups things look good,in fact it looks remarkably good , hes got a few very minor paint runs in the clear coat, he wants to know if he can sand those out and re-shoot those areas without majors issues?

What spray gun did he buy? Is this the first for the both of you to paint a complete car?


 

grumpyvette

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Staff member
Indycars said:
grumpyvette said:
mitchvette1.JPG

well he got it painted,he purchased a $200 paint gun the paint shop suggested, and other than a few very minor screw-ups things look good,in fact it looks remarkably good , hes got a few very minor paint runs in the clear coat, he wants to know if he can sand those out and re-shoot those areas without majors issues?

What spray gun did he buy? Is this the first for the both of you to paint a complete car?



hes painted several cars, but its been about 20 years back for him since the last job, Ive also painted about a dozen cars over 45 years, that hardly makes me an expert and while we both get reasonable results neither he or I, think we should be painting cars for a living so we tend to do less of this than we need to do to keep a fine edge on our skills so we both agree too just paint our own cars so any problems are not caused by the others lack of skills in this area. thats not saying the results we were looking to get are show quality, but neither does it mean its a good deal better than most of the cheap jobs you see done at most body shops.
looking over his car I can see a few minor flaws, but nothing I don,t see on most factory paint or body shop jobs
 

mathd

solid fixture here in the forum
:| About the runs in the clear he can sand 1500-2000g and compound or if its too big he can sand 400g and clear coat again for a 2 stage ptogether and the compoundt will remove orange peel if any.
The finish looks really good
if he want to clear coat just one area and not a whole panel he can do a compound so the clear coat will blend together.
for a show car finish he has to spend as much time after the coat are sprayed that he did before to spray.
Advice simoniz 10inch orbital polisher some terry bonnet and meguiars ultimate compound and some 2000g sanding paper.
 

mathd

solid fixture here in the forum
Oh and he has to wait atleast 2 day or 1 week is better before any sanding and compound.wait at least 3 month before any waxing.
sorry for typo am on phone.
 

grumpyvette

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hes decided to wait on any further improvements to the paint job as you really need to look rather hard to see the flaws, hes going to wait at least a week before sanding and re-spraying the small areas needing attention.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...garage-plans-some-build-info-experiances.116/

mitchvette3.JPG

heres a picture from several years ago when he first got the corvette project car, and I had just had the shop built, when he dropped the corvette off,little did I know it would take about 7 years to rebuild it,at that point we were just stuffing replacement parts stuff he was purchasing on every available shelf

mitchvette1.JPG

mitch1.jpg

since that time he purchased a couple thousand dollars worth of replacement interior parts and trim, sand blasted, painted the frame, rebuilt the brakes, replaced the shocks, basically anything that could be removed has been,then carefully inspected and about 80% has been replaced, and about 20% of the parts that were reusable were refurbished
 
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