need a 338 win load that hammers mule deer?

[grumpyvette]

I gave my dad a Rem 700 KS chambered in 338 Win Mag this year.. I had a Gentry Quiet Brake put on it and the trigger done on it. He loves this rifle.. I loaded 200 gr Ballistic Silvertips..not real hot but mid book loads. The problem I am running into is that he has shot 3 deer this year with it and only one has left a blood trail.. the first one was a behind the shoulder shot at about 130 yds.. 2 drops of blood where he shot it and nothing til I found the deer. Second one he shot was behind the shoulder .. but it caught the left shoulder on exit and destroyed it.. left a great bloodtrail. Saturday evening he shot a 8 pt at about 115 yds and I didn't find a single drop of blood.. looked in the clearcut for a long time..til it got dark, the next morning we found it by buzzards.. this deer did not bleed a drop..he hit it pretty low and by looking at the shot placement it should have bled pretty well. I followed this deers back trail and didn't find a single drop of blood anywhere. Made him sick to lose a deer.. I am thinking that the vital area of a whitetail isn't solid enough to make these BST or Btips open up.. not giving them the shock that btips are famous for. What is another good bullet for whitetail out of a 338?? I am thinking about trying to find some of the discontinued 180 btips.. just want something that I know will open up on the soft side of a deer. What are you guys experiences..cuz it really sucks to find one after the buzzards and coyotes have been on it!! thanks for the help. Rob

I have generally used the 250 grain hornady bullets for both deer and elk hunts with my 338 win. and I've never seemed to have issues, but after dressing out several mule deer I can tell you they generally WILL NOT expand as rapidly on heart lung shots, as the speer 200 grain bullets that one of the guys in our elk hunting camp prefers so you'll occasionally have a deer or elk stagger around then fall while the faster expending 200 grain speer seems too knock them down quicker occasionally, but keep in mind lung/heart shots on a DEER offers a far less massive target that offers noticeably lower resistance than an elk that can easily weight twice as much or more, so a lung shot offers far less resistance and distance for the bullet to expand
http://www.hornady.com/store/.338-338-CAL
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/767308 ... uctFinding

with my 338 win, as I value deep penetration and accuracy a bit more than rapid expansion,
now every component selected is a compromise in some areas.
Ive shot elk in the chest and found the 338 250 grain hornady in the hams, after punching an impressive path of damage through 4 feet of elk
but my hunting partner RON, wanted noticeably faster expansion from his 338 win, than the heavier and thicker jacket hornady bullets provide at 338 win impact velocity's, so I loaded up speers 200 grain spitzers , these do a fine job on broad side chest shots , on both deer and elk. and Ron has been absolutely convinced , for several decades that these bullets are the hot ticket in his 338 win. btw if your looking for a compromise the 225 hornady is it! it expands faster than the 250 grain hornady and penetrates deeper than the 200 grain speer.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics ... spx?id=112

rons got an older version of this synthetic stock stainless 338 win SAVAGE used to sell.
try the 69 grains of WW760 over a fed 215 primer,Ive loaded for him for decades, I've loaded the longest length that will fit and function thru his and my 338 win rifle , I doubt youll find anything to complain about, Ive seen several deer hit with that load in Rons savage bolt action, and it gets their full undivided attention
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... er&Source=
we all find favorites, youll have to find what works best for you!
and every choice is a compromise, the areas of or in rifle weight, flat trajectory, acceptable recoil, useful, bullet mass and potential impact energy and penetration.
from what Ive seen Id suggest the 270 win with a premium 150 gain bullet, or a 30/06 with a 180 grain makes a dependable choice, especially if recoils an issue.
everyone will compromise in some area and prefer some features more than others, and find what they are comfortable using.
if your looking for a reasonable compromise in rifle weight and recoil yet still having a rifle that works rather well on both deer and elk.
personally I am very willing to carry a bit more rifle weight, and accept a significantly increased level of recoil and I prefer the 340 wby & 375 H&H,
yes Im very well aware I'm in the minority, but no one I hunt with disputes the results,
I have total confidence in the rifles based on decades of almost exclusively, one shot kills.
their objections to owning one are always, centered on ammo and rifle cost,
on the rifle weight and recoil,
no one disputes the lethality, trajectory or penetration.
my rebuttal, is that if 2 extra lbs of rifle weight, or a bit of extra recoil in a rifle you might shoot only a once or couple times on a hunt,
keeps you from comfortably exploring the next canyon, with some old geezer like me, you probably need to eat better and exercise more often.
and the cost of the rifle amortized over the 45 plus years is negligible, hand-loading puts the ammo price in a reasonable range.
Im now 70 years old slower than I was, but more persistent and far more skilled and knowledgeable,
it may take me longer, to get in and out of the canyons, than it did in my 30s, but I know what I'm doing and where to look, and I can still shoot accurately.
you don,t need the latest, fastest , or flattest trajectory, what you need is simply something your comfortable using,
thats accurate,and penetrates well out to at least 300 yards, and something with a well documented record of success,
certainly a 270,win- up to-338 win or something similar with proper ammo meets that requirements

 

[grumpyvette]

at times guys only come to fully appreciate a medium bore after trying one,
I hunted for 20 plus years with a friend, (MIKE) who more or less constantly joked about my use of a 375 H&H or 340 wby as "PAULS CANNONS",
he saw no need for those calibers, and had stuck to using his 280 rem 760 slide action for decades ,
well on one trip he fell and busted his scope and borrowed a friends savage 338 stainless synthetic bolt action rifle as that friend (ron), that had previously filled his elk tag the day prior.
he filled his tag the next day and it must have impressed him a good deal as hes been hunting with a virtual clone of that savage 338 stainless synthetic bolt action rifle he borrowed for the last 9 years.
he was very impressed with how fast the first elk he shot with it dropped,
Id loaded the ammo, with speer 200 grain hot cores
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics ... spx?id=112
over 69 grains of WW760 powder and a 215 fed primer, a load hes used ever since,
deer unlike elk seem to react fastest too a fast expanding bullet,
if its placed correctly,now thats certainly not suggesting elk are not just as vulnerable, but
penetration needed for elk is not nearly as important on deer, or worded a bit differently a well placed shot that will almost instantly drop a deer in his tracks MIGHT allow a larger elk to make it a few yards before dropping, your simply dealing with a larger more muscular target and a bit more penetration is useful on elk.

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... er&Source=
he added a MATT finish 3x leopold scope, and weaver rings and its been hammering elk ever since

the rifle he purchased after that hunt, looks similar to this with a muzzle brake but its an earlier version savage no longer sells

no thats not my rifle but its damn near its clone
how many of you gentlemen have and use a bi-pod on your rifle?
Ive used the 13.5" /27" swivel bi-pod for decades on my 340 wby synthetic bolt action, rifle.
the bi-pod allows you to have a steady rifle rest shot from both a prone or seated position,
now I'm sure I'm in the minority and many guys will object to the added weight , but I've learned to hunt by glassing and covering a great deal of ground slowly,
the key here is in carefully selecting the areas hunted and not randomly wandering aimlessly.
you want to study topographical maps carefully, and have experience, you can look over the options, get into productive areas well before other hunters and set up, before first light, allowing you to benefit from the influx p o hunter pressure as they move through the are disrupting game movement, and increase your odds of success by hunting ,
natural travel routes and terrain choke points, and not wasting time glassing the areas with lots off easy road access.
elk and deer learn very quickly that travel, during daylight, near logging roads with vehicle travel access , is not safe.
if you set up to glass for game on a natural game travel choke point , like a narrow side canyon, that has a creek and cover youll up your odds significantly.
having a bi-pod on your rifle and a good familiarity with your rifles trajectory sure helps.

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HB25CS 25C Model S -13.5-27" Swivel Bipod
by Harris Engineering